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Class Action LawSuit Against M$ And Ban Wave!!!
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360lifer
Member
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9. November 2009 @ 20:09 |
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Screen shot, this will be worth quite a few laughs.
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ruff4life
Junior Member
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9. November 2009 @ 21:27 |
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So if I unplug my new console after downloading all the upgrades are you telling me that M$ has the right to come knock on my door and demand that I give them access to their software. I think not!!! IT's MINE and they can't have it. Now leave me alone, my mothers calling me!! :-)
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tavek
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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9. November 2009 @ 22:13 |
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Originally posted by ruff4life:
Sounds a lil crazy and maybe I don't have the full picture and I do know the risks that some have taken by modding their consoles. But the risks do not measure up to the punishment and I believe that people who were hit in this last ban have a possible lawsuit. (Here Me Out) !!
I've been reading posts on this site for some years now. I finally decided to chime in this year. I have been in the console modding and backup scene since the commodore 64 and I have never had any issues before. Since I got the 360 I stayed away from it because I do enjoy all of the features and did not wanna risk it. Well one day I decide to take a chance. In less than 2 months 2 months I have a banned console. OK! Big Whoop! I took that risk. So me not being able to talk to the on xbox live partner or being able to play a new racing game in a room full of rookies with all the assists on or a FPS room full of kids with modded controllers killing me and camping out at spawn points will be sorely missed. (As you can see my online experience is not all that great. Maybe Cus I suck too) But disabling the features of MY Console (THAT I PAID FOR) which have nothing to do with live is ABSURD.
Lets look at it like this. I buy an xbox elite with no live account. I live in the sticks so high speed Internet is not an option all I have is an xbox. I by a game and I install to hard drive. I mod my system and still have same features. i never get online nothing ever changes. I will always have the same features. If MS had any way of coming to my house and locating my modded system, Would they have the right to disable My features From My console Manually. The answer to that is NO. They do have the right to not allow me on Xblive (I Guess) but after that there reach into the features of my purchased console is limited.
If I am Wrong Please tell me I am not with sarcasm but sound facts . And please site your fact because My attorney will be looking into this and as we all know they can use all they help they can get to go against a giant.
How much are attorneys going for in the sticks?
Internet gangster
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. November 2009 @ 22:31 |
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A case of 'shine and 2 fat hogs.
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Junior Member
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9. November 2009 @ 23:25 |
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Originally posted by Inalbis:
First of all we all must remember law is not black and white. MS lawyers will have theyre arguments we will have ours.
Except for some personally aimed commentaries (that I hope I misunderstood), it´s a nice debate we got here.
Sorry, definitely came across wrong. My law student comment was just me being a reminder that sometimes we all skip over the basic stuff. No offense intended.
In regards to the lawyers, a large international company like Microsoft would probably have a law department for each country they work in that are all rolled into a global division called Microsoft Law Dept. or something, so I would assume in your home country that there is a law office on retainer that works for Microsoft, just like they would have in the United States or elsewhere, that verified the contract would at least stand up in a courtroom setting.
Your hard drive still works, you've just lost a privileged function of being able to install games to it. The functionality to store games was dependent on you owning original retail copies, which if you are playing burned content you (as in all modded console owners) are not doing.
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Scho3200
Newbie
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9. November 2009 @ 23:34 |
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Look Microsoft is the real criminal because you mention something contract does not make it constitution. They want people to pay for the product and yet not have ownership of it. What they are doing is clear violation of our constitutional rights and as well illegal tapping and since forcing people to buy another xbox extortion and possible racketeering. These are very serious charges and he feel poor people don't have prayer against them. With our constitutional rights alone we have all the right govern by United States of America. We need to look into a class action suit against Microsoft and finally put them in their place.
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SRImpulse
Newbie
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9. November 2009 @ 23:46 |
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Originally posted by ruff4life:
Lets look at it like this. I buy an xbox elite with no live account. I live in the sticks so high speed Internet is not an option all I have is an xbox. I by a game and I install to hard drive. I mod my system and still have same features.
If I am Wrong Please tell me I am not with sarcasm but sound facts . And please site your fact because My attorney will be looking into this and as we all know they can use all they help they can get to go against a giant.
Couple problems with this, You own the Hardware, they didn't ever disable features of the hardware, they disabled features of the software... Xbox didn't originally even have the functionality to copy games to the hard drive. Microsoft doesn't ban non Xbox live users and those who do still pirate games, are still allowed the ability to play them just without the extra functionality they added on(live, installation, etc).
Originally posted by Scho3200:
Look Microsoft is the real criminal because you mention something contract does not make it constitution. They want people to pay for the product and yet not have ownership of it. What they are doing is clear violation of our constitutional rights and as well illegal tapping and since forcing people to buy another xbox extortion and possible racketeering. These are very serious charges and he feel poor people don't have prayer against them. With our constitutional rights alone we have all the right govern by United States of America. We need to look into a class action suit against Microsoft and finally put them in their place.
You paid for the hardware not the software, that's like trying to say because you buy a computer you should be able to host as much child porn or pirate as much software as your hard drive can hold because after all, you paid for the hardware and you can do whatever you want regardless of who's software isn't being paid for. Microsoft has full rights over all their software and digital entities such as live, xbla and the games they release, and the fact that the video game industry is hurting is of no consequence to you except you get to complain when the release dates are pushed, or content is rushed due to the inability to hire more workers from lack of funds caused by their game being pirated by 70% of the consoles users.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. November 2009 @ 23:59
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HoboZombi
Newbie
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10. November 2009 @ 04:43 |
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Wow the sense of entitlement from some of these posters is just staggering.
Just "wow".
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danny2740
Junior Member
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10. November 2009 @ 09:43 |
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Maybe they will ban my PC for windows 7 lol EU law is you buy it and not pay a subscription you own it regardless. Microshat banning the console and saying you can have everything back if you buy another console is illegal. They will not refund you microshat points but you can claim it back from credit card company so you still get your money back. You cannot claim back for live subscription you violated those terms but they have no right to block DLC. end of story just like the UK bank charge's claim it'd take years to end the dispute. Go to PS3 like me they not banning and there version of live is free :D Microsoft 0 User 1
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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10. November 2009 @ 10:32 |
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You people who are saying go to PS3 are acting like Sony wouldn't ban you from PSN if the PS3 was modable. Of course they would if had a modded PS3 and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
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qwert99
Senior Member
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10. November 2009 @ 10:54 |
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Even if Microsoft won a lawsuit, there is One benefit of a lawsuit that everyone is overlooking.
As part of the process, Microsoft would have to present evidence as to how and why the console was banned. Saying, "Ohh, trust us, we have fool-proof methods" isn't going to cut it in a court.
The information to be potentially gained from something like that could be of very high value to the modding community.
Something similar happened with Dish Network when they were suing somebody who modded their service in order to get TV free of charge. As part of the proceedings, Echostar (company that owns Dish Network) had to prove that the individual did indeed bypass the security system. To do that, they have to reveal parts of encryption code. That code was then used to bust apart said encryption. Oops!
$38 on new discs -- Check
$15 on burn after burn that showed as a DVD -- Check
$11 on new laser -- Check
$28 on new multimeter -- Check
___________________________________
Knowledge from Leerage? -- Priceless
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dgrandt
Newbie
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10. November 2009 @ 10:56 |
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I think that there are valid grounds for a class action against Microsoft for their ban wave - but the pirates aren't the class to take action.
The offended class here is the legitimate buyers and owners of secondary market xBox 360 consoles that have been banned and are now flooding the secondary market. An example of this class would be my church pastor. He buys a used xBox 360 from Craigslist because he finds a bargain price of $125 on a working system. He gets it home and tries to logon to XBL or register the device and finds that the console is banned because the previous owner violated the TOS. Okay. But he is a "God fearing man" and himself has done no wrong, but is still left with a device lacking in full functionality due to the ban wave. Fine. But what essentially has happened here is Microsoft is decimating the secondary market and taking control. The perceived value (and value is all about perception) of a used xBox 360 console will plummet because the "only safe bet" is to go buy new.
So now you have my church pastor stuck with a used box that Microsoft will not give any information about, that's all, click goodbye - you are banned... And you've also got every other legitimately owned and operated xBox 360 console no longer able to fetch a decent price on the secondary market because the market is being flooded with permanently banned consoles. All because of Microsoft's ban wave that PERMANENTLY BANS the units, with no chance of relief. <--- and those there are the classes that I think are being offended, and therefore may have legitimate grounds for a class action suit.
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WJ99
Senior Member
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10. November 2009 @ 11:04 |
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Well there's commercials/adverts on TV for lawyers with a no-win-no-fee claim :D lol.
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north7
Newbie
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10. November 2009 @ 11:35 |
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MS could be sued for one simple reason they changed systems without permission. This has already been dealt with on the PC side with MS patches that changed users systems without asking for the right to do so. From my understanding these banned systems are being altered without anyone getting a pop up and what not asking if you want to allow MS update there software code.
It will take years but MS will lose this case, because there will be just as many people hurt by this that did nothing wrong as the ones that know they were taking a risk. Its funning that MS is doing the same thing that got them busted with PC but now its on the console. Oh well only time will tell.
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jimm1432
Newbie
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10. November 2009 @ 11:44 |
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This is funny to read even if you tryed to take on M$ like the guy above said they will bankrupt you before you got a chance to finsh the case they would string it out and waste away all your money till you gave up or had to.
You have no rights to software unless it's open source and freely disributed.
the hd install was a ~NXE update so stop complaining.
I was banned lastnight about 3am mid game :(
but i have 40ish copy games all stealth checked, and clean. many copys from retail games i traded in.
how much would 4 new releases cost you? £170+ and how much does a new elite with two games and a controller cost now? £189.
so I could buy 10 consoles with the money I saved from the games. If you got banned deal with it they have a clean cut case on every banned console if they sent police to raid your house and found any copyed games.
You stole from them and you damn know you did. I have a elite modded that was only modded cus the drive died never seen a copy and it's not banned (yet) FW seems clean atm when not using copys.
I have always been a modder since nes consoles and I'll admit this is the harshist anti-mod tactic I've seen but it's not unjust. The console still works throw it in a room with-out internet and buy a new one. problem solved.
or if you really can't handle it go to PC world buy a console go home swap it with your console and return it saying you don't want it. they never check consoles and it will be returned to M$ for a replacement if found not working.
Bang M$ will get there own banned console back to them.
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north7
Newbie
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10. November 2009 @ 11:51 |
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Originally posted by jimm1432:
This is funny to read even if you tryed to take on M$ like the guy above said they will bankrupt you before you got a chance to finsh the case they would string it out and waste away all your money till you gave up or had to.
You have no rights to software unless it's open source and freely disributed.
the hd install was a ~NXE update so stop complaining.
I was banned lastnight about 3am mid game :(
but i have 40ish copy games all stealth checked, and clean. many copys from retail games i traded in.
how much would 4 new releases cost you? £170+ and how much does a new elite with two games and a controller cost now? £189.
so I could buy 10 consoles with the money I saved from the games. If you got banned deal with it they have a clean cut case on every banned console if they sent police to raid your house and found any copyed games.
You stole from them and you damn know you did. I have a elite modded that was only modded cus the drive died never seen a copy and it's not banned (yet) FW seems clean atm when not using copys.
I have always been a modder since nes consoles and I'll admit this is the harshist anti-mod tactic I've seen but it's not unjust. The console still works throw it in a room with-out internet and buy a new one. problem solved.
or if you really can't handle it go to PC world buy a console go home swap it with your console and return it saying you don't want it. they never check consoles and it will be returned to M$ for a replacement if found not working.
Bang M$ will get there own banned console back to them.
Sorry bud but this story has already played out on the PC gaming sceen. MS tricked gamers into installing an updated that killed there pirated PC games without permission. I guess what they setted out of court because they knew they were going to lose the case, I even had a friend that got like 10 bucks from the case action lawsuit, thats how I heard of this case in the first place.
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Moderator
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10. November 2009 @ 11:57 |
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Originally posted by jimm1432:
or if you really can't handle it go to PC world buy a console go home swap it with your console and return it saying you don't want it. they never check consoles and it will be returned to M$ for a replacement if found not working.
Bang M$ will get there own banned console back to them.
We don't entertain such suggestions here.
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danny2740
Junior Member
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10. November 2009 @ 12:16 |
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Originally posted by Memnock:
You people who are saying go to PS3 are acting like Sony wouldn't ban you from PSN if the PS3 was modable. Of course they would if had a modded PS3 and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
PS3 is modable just need a blue ray recorder and they aint cheap!!!
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scum101
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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10. November 2009 @ 12:17 |
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Quote:
He gets it home and tries to logon to XBL or register the device and finds that the console is banned because the previous owner violated the TOS.
Second owner has NO COMEBACK against the original manufacturer or supplier if the previous owner has done something which is against the terms of whatever agreements the original purchaser and the manufacturer had. Used means just that. Unless there is a directly safety issue which causes a general product recall all previous guarantees and agreements of service between the first instance purchaser and the manufacturer/supplier are null and void. The only person or company the current owner can legally take the matter up with is the most recent seller.
example:: I buy a late model Chevvy from "fast eddies used car emporium" On the way home the engine explodes because the previous owner or owners has/have tampered with the engine management system... In what way are the manufacturers responsible to fix it?
I do like the n00btastic comment directly above mine... since just when has the ps3 been moddable? and if so why isn't the whole internet full of guides as to exactly how to do it??
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. November 2009 @ 12:24
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AfterDawn Addict
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10. November 2009 @ 12:53 |
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Originally posted by Inalbis:
Even If I had commited I crime, with I didn´t cause I own all games I backed up, Ms could not have made justice with theyre own hands. Punishment and justice is State business as far as I know.
There is your crime. You are simply not allowed to breach the copy protection. You are allowed to copy your games, DVDs and whatsoever, you are just not allowed to break the copy protection by doing so.
Xbox 360: Slim untouched with a faked 320 GB harddrive for XBL, phat with LT 3.0, played Halo early, so going on live would be an instand ban, also with a faked 320 GB harddrive
PS3: Untouched 160 GB Slim, 60 GB Fat with latest Rogero and 160 GB internal harddrive.
PSVita: hardly ever play it
GameCube: Black with a Viper chip installed. With gameboy player. Trying to get a Wavebird controller.
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danny2740
Junior Member
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10. November 2009 @ 12:59 |
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There is no copy protection on 360 games!!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
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10. November 2009 @ 13:19 |
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Originally posted by danny2740:
PS3 is modable just need a blue ray recorder and they aint cheap!!!
Quote:
There is no copy protection on 360 games!!!!
You should try obtaining knowledge to what you're referring to before spouting off nonsence.
Originally posted by Scho3200:
Look Microsoft is the real criminal because you mention something contract does not make it constitution. They want people to pay for the product and yet not have ownership of it. What they are doing is clear violation of our constitutional rights and as well illegal tapping and since forcing people to buy another xbox extortion and possible racketeering. These are very serious charges and he feel poor people don't have prayer against them. With our constitutional rights alone we have all the right govern by United States of America. We need to look into a class action suit against Microsoft and finally put them in their place.
HAHAHA... that was too funny. I almost shot coffee out my nose when reading your post.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. November 2009 @ 13:21
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dgrandt
Newbie
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10. November 2009 @ 14:28 |
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Originally posted by scum101:
Quote:
He gets it home and tries to logon to XBL or register the device and finds that the console is banned because the previous owner violated the TOS.
Second owner has NO COMEBACK against the original manufacturer or supplier if the previous owner has done something which is against the terms of whatever agreements the original purchaser and the manufacturer had. Used means just that. Unless there is a directly safety issue which causes a general product recall all previous guarantees and agreements of service between the first instance purchaser and the manufacturer/supplier are null and void. The only person or company the current owner can legally take the matter up with is the most recent seller.
example:: I buy a late model Chevvy from "fast eddies used car emporium" On the way home the engine explodes because the previous owner or owners has/have tampered with the engine management system... In what way are the manufacturers responsible to fix it?
Okay, so I get it. In theory - Microsoft doesn't need to worry at all about the legitimate parties that are screwed over by a secondary market flooded with banned consoles. Like that won't hurt software sales. I wonder how many of these banned consoles will end up on store shelves at GameStop and other businesses that rely heavily on the "used is used" market. It's not like those businesses are getting screwed over by the saturation of banned consoles into their market and the overall devaluation of the product. Microsoft doesn't want them selling used consoles anyhow - they want to sell new consoles. So screw them, and screw anyone who thought they'd save a buck by buying a used console. And screw anyone who thought they would make a buck by selling their own used console.
I buy broken consoles that are out of warranty, repair them, then sell them at pretty big discounted prices compared to new units at retail. I can't even tell if a console is banned or not until after I've bought it and I'm done doing all the work on it. Screw me.
And why is everyone screwed? Because rather than disabling the actual counterfeit and unlicensed merchandise - Microsoft is disabling the entire consoles.
Truth be told, if everything were always just as simple as "They can do it, yes they can", then we wouldn't need courts.
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mikeman3
Newbie
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10. November 2009 @ 16:27 |
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In M$'s terms of service they say they can remove a user of xbox live priviledges at any time without having to provide reason. or something along them lines. So basically you wouldnt stand a chance with that lawsuit lol
i be mike c :)
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Member
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10. November 2009 @ 17:00 |
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Originally posted by mikeman3:
In M$'s terms of service they say they can remove a user of xbox live priviledges at any time without having to provide reason. or something along them lines. So basically you wouldnt stand a chance with that lawsuit lol
I´m sorry but that is a very passive and naive interpretation. Just because its written somewhere? C´mon.
The guy that told me that when I press "I have read and accepted" in the EULA it means I have read and accepted... No it dont! It means I have pressed a button! Thats not a contract!
In my country to sign a contract you need to SIGN it, with two witnessess, and got youre signature confirmed by a special government organ(yeah that last part is stupid, just so they make money). Even so, it may not be valid, as you may have no capacity to sign it, could have been coerced, fooled, or some other things.
So, what if a minor had pressed the "i accept" button in the EULA? minors dont have legal capacity to sign off contracts you know? What if i let the conttroler on the floor, went for a bite and my dog passed by and pressed the button? Is that a valid contract??? Because it was written?
A press of a button is just a press of a button. Not a written contract.
But I don´t really care anymore, cause if you are right, I can get rich right now and never need to advocate again. See? By youre logic, I´ll do as microsoft and get rich, so I can buy as many original I want:
You, reading this. By filling youre lungs the next time you are confirming that you had read this post and get obligated to give me all youre money and possessions.
Ok, i´ll collect later this weak. And you have no chance in a lawsuit, because of course, it´s written, and I can prove you have read this and inhaled.
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