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What speed for Memorex?
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. August 2011 @ 11:00 |
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Originally posted by Modking30:
Memorex are the best! So much better than those cheap verbatims.
A remark like that will get you demoted to Modprince15!!!!
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Senior Member
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1. August 2011 @ 17:26 |
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Originally posted by Thosmos:
I think your answer has been given. But if you still believe that buring at higher speeds yealds greater and faster access to the data that has been written...
I don't think that at all. I said that it's not true in this very thread in fact: -
Originally posted by Me:
The burn speed and read speed are not at all related in the way that marcusj0015 claimed.
The only thing I took issue with in your post is the claim that if you're "worried about data read errors" that you should "always burn at the slowest possible speed".
Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you! |
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JKetias
Newbie
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2. August 2011 @ 04:48 |
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Originally posted by eebeejay:
Originally posted by Modking30:
Memorex are the best! So much better than those cheap verbatims.
A remark like that will get you demoted to Modprince15!!!!
I have a feeling he was being sarcastic huehauehaeuaehuae.
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. August 2011 @ 17:47 |
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Originally posted by funksoulb:
Originally posted by Me:
The burn speed and read speed are not at all related in the way that marcusj0015 claimed.
The only thing I took issue with in your post is the claim that if you're "worried about data read errors" that you should "always burn at the slowest possible speed".
Actually, it is the other way around. The slower you burn, the more errors you have.
Xbox 360: Slim untouched with a faked 320 GB harddrive for XBL, phat with LT 3.0, played Halo early, so going on live would be an instand ban, also with a faked 320 GB harddrive
PS3: Untouched 160 GB Slim, 60 GB Fat with latest Rogero and 160 GB internal harddrive.
PSVita: hardly ever play it
GameCube: Black with a Viper chip installed. With gameboy player. Trying to get a Wavebird controller.
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. August 2011 @ 17:54 |
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Originally posted by JKetias:
Originally posted by eebeejay:
Originally posted by Modking30:
Memorex are the best! So much better than those cheap verbatims.
A remark like that will get you demoted to Modprince15!!!!
I have a feeling he was being sarcastic huehauehaeuaehuae.
Yeah I know. I was being sarcastic too.
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Thosmos
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2. August 2011 @ 18:54 |
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Originally posted by Eisherz:
Originally posted by funksoulb:
Originally posted by Me:
The burn speed and read speed are not at all related in the way that marcusj0015 claimed.
The only thing I took issue with in your post is the claim that if you're "worried about data read errors" that you should "always burn at the slowest possible speed".
Actually, it is the other way around. The slower you burn, the more errors you have.
Wow! really?? If you say so! And the faster I type the less errors I seem to get. ;)
It's cool how it all works that way... the world is indeed a strange place!
Maybe this "slow speed burn = errors" is where the mindset of Memorex not working worth a darn came from in the first place??
Funny, I burn slow, and don't have the issues you may be having.
Maybe try... Just a suggestion.
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Modking30
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2. August 2011 @ 20:43 |
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Originally posted by eebeejay:
Originally posted by Modking30:
Memorex are the best! So much better than those cheap verbatims.
A remark like that will get you demoted to Modprince15!!!!
made my day ;)
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Senior Member
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3. August 2011 @ 00:01 |
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Originally posted by Thosmos:
Originally posted by Eisherz:
Originally posted by funksoulb:
Originally posted by Me:
The burn speed and read speed are not at all related in the way that marcusj0015 claimed.
The only thing I took issue with in your post is the claim that if you're "worried about data read errors" that you should "always burn at the slowest possible speed".
Actually, it is the other way around. The slower you burn, the more errors you have.
Wow! really?? If you say so! And the faster I type the less errors I seem to get. ;)
It's cool how it all works that way... the world is indeed a strange place!
Maybe this "slow speed burn = errors" is where the mindset of Memorex not working worth a darn came from in the first place??
Funny, I burn slow, and don't have the issues you may be having.
Maybe try... Just a suggestion.
Have you ever done any tests with burns done at various speeds, scanning the discs to check the error rates?
If your theory of "slower is always better" were true - and it's not, but than neither is "faster is always better" - then my burner wouldn't automatically prevent me from burning DVD+R DL discs at anything less than 4X, unless you believe that the manufacturer is trying to make their burner perform worse on purpose.
There just isn't a universal rule for burn speeds. With some combinations of burner/firmware/media, the slowest speed may well be the best, but that isn't true of all combinations, which is why I say to do some tests. Without doing the tests, unless your burns fail at anything other than 1X, you're posting based on an assumption. Even if the slowest burns give the fewest errors with your particular setup, those results wouldn't apply to everyone else.
Also, I posted a direct quote from an email sent to me from the quality manager at Verbatim who says that there is no need to burn slowly (with a modern drive with up to date firmware) and that he burns his discs as fast as his drive allows. The guy in charge of quality for the discs that most of us use is a more trustworthy source than any of us!
Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. August 2011 @ 00:04
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Thosmos
Member
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3. August 2011 @ 01:41 |
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Originally posted by funksoulb:
Originally posted by Thosmos:
Originally posted by Eisherz:
Originally posted by funksoulb:
Originally posted by Me:
The burn speed and read speed are not at all related in the way that marcusj0015 claimed.
The only thing I took issue with in your post is the claim that if you're "worried about data read errors" that you should "always burn at the slowest possible speed".
Actually, it is the other way around. The slower you burn, the more errors you have.
Wow! really?? If you say so! And the faster I type the less errors I seem to get. ;)
It's cool how it all works that way... the world is indeed a strange place!
Maybe this "slow speed burn = errors" is where the mindset of Memorex not working worth a darn came from in the first place??
Funny, I burn slow, and don't have the issues you may be having.
Maybe try... Just a suggestion.
Have you ever done any tests with burns done at various speeds, scanning the discs to check the error rates?
If your theory of "slower is always better" were true - and it's not, but than neither is "faster is always better" - then my burner wouldn't automatically prevent me from burning DVD+R DL discs at anything less than 4X, unless you believe that the manufacturer is trying to make their burner perform worse on purpose.
There just isn't a universal rule for burn speeds. With some combinations of burner/firmware/media, the slowest speed may well be the best, but that isn't true of all combinations, which is why I say to do some tests. Without doing the tests, unless your burns fail at anything other than 1X, you're posting based on an assumption. Even if the slowest burns give the fewest errors with your particular setup, those results wouldn't apply to everyone else.
Also, I posted a direct quote from an email sent to me from the quality manager at Verbatim who says that there is no need to burn slowly (with a modern drive with up to date firmware) and that he burns his discs as fast as his drive allows. The guy in charge of quality for the discs that most of us use is a more trustworthy source than any of us!
This is silly. But I will continue...
Please post the model of the burner you use for all of these tasks, and we can end something that should have three days ago.
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Senior Member
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3. August 2011 @ 14:28 |
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I have a couple of burners: -
Optiarc AD-7240S (firmware 1.04)
Pioneer DVR-219L (firmware 1.01)
How you intend to prove that burning slower is always better with burners that I have done actual tests with though, I have no idea, and of course you are not just disagreeing with me. You are disagreeing with people such as the quality manager of Verbatim who make the discs most of us use, and the creator of ImgBurn, the software that most of us use for burning discs, but do fire away........
Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you! |
AfterDawn Addict
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3. August 2011 @ 20:52 |
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What's a good piece of software to test a burnt disc?
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Thosmos
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4. August 2011 @ 03:27 |
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Originally posted by funksoulb:
I have a couple of burners: -
Optiarc AD-7240S (firmware 1.04)
Pioneer DVR-219L (firmware 1.01)
How you intend to prove that burning slower is always better with burners that I have done actual tests with though, I have no idea, and of course you are not just disagreeing with me. You are disagreeing with people such as the quality manager of Verbatim who make the discs most of us use, and the creator of ImgBurn, the software that most of us use for burning discs, but do fire away........
I think only you are saying that you get better results with faster burns. I don't hear anyone else chiming in. As for papa Verbatim -- are you related or something?
Burn one at 2.4 speed, and another at whatever speed you want, on the same media disks. Load the disks into your 360, and grab a stopwatch. Time the load before splash screen, and post them here.
I am hoping this keeps you busy for weeks.
Lite-On 74850, Ben-Q 64930, Hitachi 47DJ, Samsung MS28.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. August 2011 @ 03:29
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Senior Member
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4. August 2011 @ 06:43 |
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I don't think you have a clue. The fact that you've only ever used Memorex discs shows that, never mind your comments about burn speed, lol.
Firstly, I can't burn Verbatim discs at 2.4X. It's not a supported speed on either of my burners. 4X is the slowest I can burn them. Secondly, putting discs into a 360 and then using a stopwatch is not exactly a great way to test the quality of a burn. Try using the software I mentioned on page 1 and doing some proper tests instead of basing your argument on some n00b's guide you read on the Internet.
And a comment from Lightning UK, the creator of ImgBurn, regarding the discs that I use: -
Quote:
Speeds are determined by the drive/firmware/media combo. The software has nothing to do with anything.
They're 8x discs and your drive might even produce a better quality burn at one of the faster speeds than it does on the slower ones.
But you know better than the quality manager of Verbatim and the creator of ImgBurn! You read a guide on the Internetz!
Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. August 2011 @ 07:00
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Senior Member
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4. August 2011 @ 07:55 |
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Originally posted by funksoulb:
I don't think you have a clue. The fact that you've only ever used Memorex discs shows that, never mind your comments about burn speed, lol.
Firstly, I can't burn Verbatim discs at 2.4X. It's not a supported speed on either of my burners. 4X is the slowest I can burn them. Secondly, putting discs into a 360 and then using a stopwatch is not exactly a great way to test the quality of a burn. Try using the software I mentioned on page 1 and doing some proper tests instead of basing your argument on some n00b's guide you read on the Internet.
And a comment from Lightning UK, the creator of ImgBurn, regarding the discs that I use: -
Quote:
Speeds are determined by the drive/firmware/media combo. The software has nothing to do with anything.
They're 8x discs and your drive might even produce a better quality burn at one of the faster speeds than it does on the slower ones.
But you know better than the quality manager of Verbatim and the creator of ImgBurn! You read a guide on the Internetz!
I should have been more specific in my previous post but I thought the thread question had been answered. This debacle re-emerges on this forum (and many others) frequently and I have previously posted testing results for different media types under optimal conditions (latest firmware/operating system/decent system). For major manufacturer brands (Verbatim, Memorex, etc.), burning at the discs rated speed (the speed printed on the top of the disc) typically produced less errors. This means, burn at the speed printed on top of the disc. :)
However, none of our systems are exactly the same, so our individual performance results will vary according to our personal hardware/firmware/software configurations. We don't all have the same programs running in the background while burning so we can't make apples to apples comparisons based on personal experience...unless we're all testing with the same equipment.
funksoulb knows what he is talking about.
p.s. If you REALLY want me to go back and dig up the lab graph I'll look for it again. Use the search button...it's posted here, or check cdrinfo or MyCE, they LOVE talking about this stuff there.
"All drives should be updated to Lite Touch + (LT+) firmware if playing on XBOX live. Samsung drives and pre-78/79 Hitachi drives do not utilize AP 2.5. All other drives are considered to be detectable by Microsoft (YMMV). Make sure all rips are ABGX verified, contain SSv2, and patched AP2.5 (where needed). XGD3 must currently be burned on new drive with PC Burner Max firmware for 100% rip. All modded consoles can be potentially unsafe for use on XBOX live."
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Senior Member
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4. August 2011 @ 08:45 |
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Thank you.
All I am saying is that you cannot make a blanket "slow is always best" nor "fast is always best" statement, because our setups and the media types we use vary from person to person. Sometimes choosing a faster speed is better, sometimes a slower speed is better. That's basically what you just said too, MrGreaser.
I have done my own tests with software designed specifically for this purpose and I cannot discount the words of people like Lightning UK and the guy from Verbatim either, and I'm sorry that I keep bringing their names into it, but I'm wondering why people like Thosmos are so adamant that what they are saying is correct, as they would have to disagree with not only me, but other people with far more knowledge of this topic than me! When you say "get a stop watch and see how long a game takes to load" as your evidence, it doesn't really add up to much!
At the end of the day, most people read burning guides on sites like this one that have been written by people who have either just copied the info from another guide, or by people who don't really know what they're talking about. That's not to offend anyone in particular, it's just the way it is.
So yeah, as MrGreaser said, burning at the disc's rated speed is a good idea, but if you really want to know which burn speed is best, do some testing with software designed for that task, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread, then you'll know if the error rates you're getting (all burned discs have errors on them) are within acceptable limits or not. Also, as MrGreaser mentioned, if you go to sites like MyCE and CDRInfo and ask knowledgeable people there about burn speeds, you'll get the same answers as I'm giving you. I'm not making this up just because I like arguing on the Internet. I don't. I just don't like seeing incorrect information passed off as fact when I know that it's incorrect.
Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you! |
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Modking30
AfterDawn Addict
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4. August 2011 @ 09:29 |
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What a boring topic LOL. Just get verbatims
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. August 2011 @ 12:29 |
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Quote:
What speed for Memorex?
From my hand to the garbage can at the speed of light, baby.
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. August 2011 @ 12:41 |
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Originally posted by bhetrick:
Quote:
What speed for Memorex?
From my hand to the garbage can at the speed of light, baby.
Funny!
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thw5ck
Inactive
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4. August 2011 @ 18:37 |
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Had nothing but trouble with Memorex's only use Verbatims now.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. August 2011 @ 18:37
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. August 2011 @ 22:13 |
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Originally posted by thw5ck:
Had nothing but trouble with Memorex's only use Verbatims now.
See thw5ck.... right there...... that statement is gonna have a handful of memorex users posting, saying things like "I've burned a bajillion memorex discs with no coasters. They work".
Don't listen to them.
If you're new to ripping/burning, then you should try to alleviate as many potential problems as possible.
Verbatims work.
Memorex can work.
There is a difference.
Verbatims are all the same. So they all work.
Memorex are not all the same. So some work, some don't.
Everyone who preaches "I've never had a coaster with Memorex" is simply lucky to have been getting an "Xbox 360 compatible batch" of Memorex each time. So to alleviate the media issue, simply use Verbatim. After you "perfect your burning procedure" feel free to try Memorex (or any other CAD).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. August 2011 @ 03:13
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Senior Member
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4. August 2011 @ 22:43 |
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Apparently, Memorex discs work best if you burn them as slowly as possible, i.e. at 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001X. It takes about 100 years to burn a disc, but the burn quality will be alright. ;)
Still, Memorex discs do get awesome reviews: -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817501015
Quote:
Pros: Good Drink Coasters
Cons: More than 50% failure out of a 50 disc with Memorex, Went to TDK and had 2 fail out of 50.
Other Thoughts: There is a distinct burnt odor to these ? Like they were in a fire or somehow over heated during manufacturing.
Quote:
Pros: They were the only double layer DVD available at a large discount store late at night when I needed them.
Cons: One after another, couldn't get through the burn, or finished the burn and couldn't reliably read the data. I'm pretty disappointed.
Quote:
Pros: Lower price than Verbatim DLs
Cons: First three disks out of spindle failed to burn.
First disk was not even recognized by burner.
Second disk burned about 10% and the third about 15% before failing.
Other Thoughts: Should have learned long ago that no matter how inexpensive media is, it has no value if you cannot accomplish a complete burn. Will stick with Verbatim disks going forward.
But hey, they're cheap, right?
Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you! |
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Thosmos
Member
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5. August 2011 @ 12:44 |
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Originally posted by funksoulb:
Apparently, Memorex discs work best if you burn them as slowly as possible, i.e. at 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001X. It takes about 100 years to burn a disc, but the burn quality will be alright. ;)
Still, Memorex discs do get awesome reviews: -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817501015
Quote:
Pros: Good Drink Coasters
Cons: More than 50% failure out of a 50 disc with Memorex, Went to TDK and had 2 fail out of 50.
Other Thoughts: There is a distinct burnt odor to these ? Like they were in a fire or somehow over heated during manufacturing.
Quote:
Pros: They were the only double layer DVD available at a large discount store late at night when I needed them.
Cons: One after another, couldn't get through the burn, or finished the burn and couldn't reliably read the data. I'm pretty disappointed.
Quote:
Pros: Lower price than Verbatim DLs
Cons: First three disks out of spindle failed to burn.
First disk was not even recognized by burner.
Second disk burned about 10% and the third about 15% before failing.
Other Thoughts: Should have learned long ago that no matter how inexpensive media is, it has no value if you cannot accomplish a complete burn. Will stick with Verbatim disks going forward.
But hey, they're cheap, right?
I agree. I would advise a newb, to use the best disks that they can find, since knowing where you failed in the process can sometimes be hard to figure out. But for those of us that have been doing it for some time... If we say that Memorex works fine for us, then they do. As far as what batch of Memorex you get, and it's "compatibility with the 360"... really??
But then again, maybe the moisture out here in Hawaii effects all Memorex disks in a positive way...
Those that have been burning, and are having issues... Look to your burner. Try a different one. And if everyone here thinks that waiting twenty minutes to burn a disk, vs ten minutes... If you really need to play it that fast, and can't wait! Then go with what works for you.
Verb users seem to sometimes get offended when folks on here mention that Memorex works fine for them. I think it's because they are spending way more to do the same thing, and can't figure out why they can't get the same results with their gear...
Lite-On 74850, Ben-Q 64930, Hitachi 47DJ, Samsung MS28.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. August 2011 @ 12:47
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. August 2011 @ 18:29 |
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Originally posted by Thosmos:
I agree. I would advise a newb, to use the best disks that they can find, since knowing where you failed in the process can sometimes be hard to figure out.
That itself is the whole point. Point a noob towards the techniques and products that are proven to work as option #1. Option #2 is for the noob to decide whether to go a cheaper route hardware/software/media-wise.
Originally posted by Thosmos:
But for those of us that have been doing it for some time... If we say that Memorex works fine for us, then they do.
Of course they do. Memorex, TDK, Sony, Imation, Maxell, Tuff-disc, Aone, etc, etc, (henceforth referred to as CADs), yes they ALL work, but we're talking about consistency. Verbatim and Taiyo-Yuden have consistency and the CADs I mentioned, don't.
Originally posted by Thosmos:
As far as what batch of Memorex you get, and it's "compatibility with the 360"... really??
Yes , really. Back to consistency, all Verbatims (SKU-wise) are the same, so if you burn one correctly, it will work, and so will the next one, and the one after. CADs have no consistency in manufacturing, therefore all Memorex (and other CADs) are not the same. I've even had a pack of Memorex that had discs with different manufacturing ID codes. Disc ID: RITEK-S04-066 and Disc ID: MBIPG101-R10-65 in the same 50 pack spindle. And that's just 2 of the many manufacturers Memorex outsources from.
I get a couple Memorex DVD+R DL 50-pack spindles free each month from a vendor (Wish It was Verbatim), and I use those to burn games for the 6 Xbox 360 consoles in my family circle. Rarely ever do I get a coaster with them, (maybe 1 or 2 out of a hundred), but what I did have to figure out is that 2 of the consoles won't read Memorex ID: MBIPG101-R10-65, one other struggles with Memorex ID: RITEK-S04-066, while the other two accept both disc types. The 6th box (mine) only gets fed Verbatims and Taiyo-Yude.
Originally posted by Thosmos:
But then again, maybe the moisture out here in Hawaii effects all Memorex disks in a positive way...
Maybe I'll see you when I visit Hawaii in early December.
Originally posted by Thosmos:
Those that have been burning, and are having issues... Look to your burner. Try a different one.
Yeah, that's one option, and a good one at that. But it's option #2.
Originally posted by Thosmos:
And if everyone here thinks that waiting twenty minutes to burn a disk, vs ten minutes... If you really need to play it that fast, and can't wait! Then go with what works for you.
Likewise. I never understood how people complain that 20 minutes is too long to wait for a burn.
Originally posted by Thosmos:
Verb users seem to sometimes get offended when folks on here mention that Memorex works fine for them. I think it's because they are spending way more to do the same thing, and can't figure out why they can't get the same results with their gear...
Hmm.... I seem to think it's the other way around. CAD users always chime in "defending" CADs. When someone posts questions about what media to use, more times than not it's a Verb replying, saying in short that Verbs are the recommended brand and why not to use CADs. That's when CAD users come defending the "integrity" of the CAD.
Think about it, you rarely see a post saying that Verbatims don't work, and when you do, it always turns out to be a layer-break issue (which would have still occurred using a CAD.
On the other hand, you see post after post after post after post about someone using CADs with burns failing repeatedly.
Then you see follow-ups saying:
[Problem Solved - bad spindle of Memorex, got new spindle of Memorex. Working now]
[Problem Solved - Switched to another brand of CAD]
but mostly it's:
[Problem Solved - Switched to Vebatims]
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. August 2011 @ 04:58 |
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Never start a discussion about religion or disk brands (or the quality of apple products) if you don't want a quarreling.
Use the brand that suits you best and stick with it (btw: here a 10-pack of verbatims is about 1 Euro more than a 10-pack of memorex, so 1 coaster with the memorex that would have burned perfectly with the verbatim and your ballance is negative).
Xbox 360: Slim untouched with a faked 320 GB harddrive for XBL, phat with LT 3.0, played Halo early, so going on live would be an instand ban, also with a faked 320 GB harddrive
PS3: Untouched 160 GB Slim, 60 GB Fat with latest Rogero and 160 GB internal harddrive.
PSVita: hardly ever play it
GameCube: Black with a Viper chip installed. With gameboy player. Trying to get a Wavebird controller.
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Thosmos
Member
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6. August 2011 @ 14:15 |
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----------Paste------------------------------
Think about it, you rarely see a post saying that Verbatims don't work, and when you do, it always turns out to be a layer-break issue (which would have still occurred using a CAD.
On the other hand, you see post after post after post after post about someone using CADs with burns failing repeatedly.
----------snip-------------------------------
This is all a good point. Just because I have had no issues, with all of the reports of others having issues, I cannot say that Memorex is great, and will work for anyone, as it does for me. And would never recommend someone new to this to just get Memorex. I myself, started with a 10 pack -- to test -- and eventually graduated to the family pack! Of the ten phat machines that I have, if a disk doesn't read in one machine, it's always a laser issue. As I can test with other machines to verify easily.
Lite-On 74850, Ben-Q 64930, Hitachi 47DJ, Samsung MS28.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. August 2011 @ 14:22
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