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Best YLOD Repair Method
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storm66
Newbie
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11. July 2010 @ 01:58 |
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It seems all the flux, heat guns, bent clips, thermal paste, and cleaning in the world don't last very long for a YLOD problem. I know there is the rare case where it worked for a year or more but it seems those stories are few and far between. Most seem to last a few days to a few weeks before it happens again. Having a background in electronics design and manufacturing for NASA and the Military I began looking into this YLOD problem when I first had it on my machine some months ago. I watched many of the You tube videos and threads on how to repair these and noticed that none of them truly get at the root of the problem. Although most of the time the two main BGA processors are at fault the OE128 Proadizer capacitors can also be at fault when they become overheated.
All that being said the only true fix that I have found that works and continues to work is removal of the two main BGAs and reballing them with lead based solder balls as well as changing the four top proadizer chips. Now you may ask how can I do that and fix my machine myself. The answer is you can't without a lot of experience with BGAs, the proper equipment and a lot of patience. The proper equipment can cost $2k -$10k depending on what you buy. The ability to use the equipment requires some training and trial and error experience to perfect the process.
I looked and found very few companies that actually remove and reball the BGAs and none that replace the proadizers. Not to rain on anyones parade that offers flux reflow services or heatgun and thermal paste fixes but these are not the correct repair method for the YLOD problem and should only be considered temporary fixes at best.
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Beno420
Member
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12. July 2010 @ 08:38 |
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Your right, and everyone knows this thou. Everyone tries a heat gun because it is much cheaper. I have done a few and so far so good. You can make them work for quite some time for cheap. Reballing with lead solder is the way to go, but by the time your done with that, you might as well just buy another PS3, sell the broken one on Ebay for 80-100 and move on, since you would have a warranty and a brand new console and not to mention money ahead.
I think after people play a game on there PS3 they should eject the disc and let the console sit at idle for a little bit so that is cools it off to idle temp, whatever temp that may be. People like to play a game and then shut it down right after they are done, when the console is at it's hottest and im sure that is not a good thing do.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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13. July 2010 @ 05:23 |
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In theory, the fix storm describes is "Correct"...but in practicality, it is anything but.
1.) Cost...unless you have a system with PS2 support and 4 USB ports, the mainboard isn't worth the cost of doing a BGA fix. Oh, and even when you do the "Correct" fix, there is still a chance that it won't work, and you will be out $200 for nothing.
2.) The actual fix does not fix the cause of the problem; only the problem itself. The heat in the system was so high that it caused the solder to expand and contract to the point that it cracked. If you just replace the solder with more flexible stuff, you may still be facing the problem again in the near future.
3.) The heatgun fix is very problematic, but the oven fix seems to be a lot more reliable (and easier too). I strongly believe that the high failure rates of these two fixes are related to problem #2...they fix the problem, and their contacts are working just well enough for the system to run...then they put it back together without a fan fix, and let it overheat it's way right back to YLOD. The YLOD is a heat problem; those contacts only break because they are expanding and contracting...keep them cool and they won't be able to fail.
As for idling the system after games, I can't see how that would help. The PS3 has a PWM fan that is controlled by system temperature. If the system is hot, the fan turns faster. If the system is at idle, the fan turns slower. If you are at such high temperatures that suddenly turning off the fan causes a buildup of heat so intense that it goes to the base of the processor, and causes expansion of the contacts, then the system will be overheating half way through the first level of the game anyway.
Yes, these are all just hack-fixes that really are not "Correct"...but they are cheap and easy, and if they can get you another 2 years out of a $300 system for $5 in parts, then why not? It isn't like we are talking about a $10,000 circuit board from the space shuttle here; we are talking about a system that costs $300, and is about to get a price cut...and for which reliability is not a matter of life and death for the pilot and crew.
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Beno420
Member
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13. July 2010 @ 13:49 |
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I have never done the oven fix but I have done the heat gun and so far so good. I have found that flux is really needed in order to do the heat gun fix as properly as can be.
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storm66
Newbie
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13. July 2010 @ 23:36 |
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True, heat is the core problem but lead free solder exacerbates the issue by fracturing during rapid temperature change such as described by the "shut off while hot" scenario which everyone seems to do because they don't know any better. Sony should recommend the slow cool down procedure in the manual. Most of the high end Military boards still use leaded solder because of its properties under extreme temperature differentials. However, I can't blame Sony for following the ROHS rules with a consumer device like this. True a warranty is a good thing most of the time but you still have to deal with the hassle of sending it in. If it was just designed correctly then you would not have any of these issues.
I have noticed something on the processors themselves, if you overheat the system and it YLODs and then hit it with a heat gun with uncontrolled temperatures you reduce the effectiveness of the thermal paste between the core processor under the silver metal plate. I am talking about the 42mm X42mm metal top cap that is glued to the processor cache memory at four points and the thermal paste in the center to conduct the heat out. If you take a razor and cut it off of the processor (cut the glue) you will notice the thermal paste in the center. Changing the thermal paste and then re-gluing with thermal glue at the corners after cleaning will increase heat transfer through the plate through the top layer of thermal paste to the primary heat exchanger of the system.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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14. July 2010 @ 00:15 |
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Do you mean the metal cap on the video chip? I tried getting it off last time I was in there, but there was no room to cut the glue, and I simply could not get the cap off. Maybe it gets easier to remove with heat.
Sony design defects for my 40GB unit (intentional design defects; I are ignoring things that were accidental)
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High speed, high heat ram...even sony knows it needs a good cooler, so they use good size ram sinks...but then they use semi-conductive rubber instead of thermal paste. I can confirm that (at least on my unit), this was causing instability that I fixed by using thermal adhesive to attach slightly smaller ramsinks.
The chipset is cooled by the same means...except there isn't even a heatsink.
Low speed fan...for some reason, Sony made this unit so that the fan spins slow unless it is a dire emergency. They seem to want it to run as hot as my car...or maybe they were just trying to make it as quiet as possible, but they went too far IMHO. A couple wires made my fan run at full speed, and now the exhaust air, all the sides, and the freshly ejected disks are all cool to the touch; like the system just turned on a few seconds ago.
...three intentional, heat-related defects. It is amazing that there are so few YLOD's.
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storm66
Newbie
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14. July 2010 @ 00:57 |
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Originally posted by KillerBug:
Do you mean the metal cap on the video chip? I tried getting it off last time I was in there, but there was no room to cut the glue, and I simply could not get the cap off. Maybe it gets easier to remove with heat.
Sony design defects for my 40GB unit (intentional design defects; I are ignoring things that were accidental)
-------------------
High speed, high heat ram...even sony knows it needs a good cooler, so they use good size ram sinks...but then they use semi-conductive rubber instead of thermal paste. I can confirm that (at least on my unit), this was causing instability that I fixed by using thermal adhesive to attach slightly smaller ramsinks.
The chipset is cooled by the same means...except there isn't even a heatsink.
Low speed fan...for some reason, Sony made this unit so that the fan spins slow unless it is a dire emergency. They seem to want it to run as hot as my car...or maybe they were just trying to make it as quiet as possible, but they went too far IMHO. A couple wires made my fan run at full speed, and now the exhaust air, all the sides, and the freshly ejected disks are all cool to the touch; like the system just turned on a few seconds ago.
...three intentional, heat-related defects. It is amazing that there are so few YLOD's.
No, the two main BGAs GPU and CPU with the silver metal covers on them. The ones that you put the thermal paste on that mate with the heat exchanger. If you take a flat single edge razor and put just under the bottom edge of the silver part at the corner and push in with a sawing action (be careful razor can break and it will be a bad day) the razor will begin to move in until you feel it break through the glue. Then you do the same thing on the other three corners and the metal cap will pop off. You will see the dried useless thermal paste in the middle. Clean this off and scrape the glue off the cache ram with a razor then replace thermal paste in center and use thermal glue to reattach at corners. I would say this is one of the many issues with heat dissipation due to poor thermal exchange between the actual processor chip and the rest of the system. Fixing this will help with this issue.
Another thing that helps is covering the OE128 proadizer chips (two beside each main BGA)with tacky thermal insulator material (non-conductive) to protect them from heat.
Yes more fan equals more heat dissipation but more noise. I think you are correct they wanted to make it quiet but might have went a little overboard and caused overheating issues. The fan mod will make it run cooler but at the cost of more noise.
Intentional defects I don't think they would do that. They probably were just trying to meet a cost threshold in production and had to trim a few things and just trimmed the wrong things. Design defects are common especially when you are in a hurry to get a new item out there. The new iPhone 4 for instance...
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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14. July 2010 @ 05:06 |
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Thanks for the tip...next time I go in for a de-dusting, I'll have to try and get the cap off the GPU; I don't think the CPU cap is removable in the same way...it looked more like a modern CPU cap, while the cap on the GPU looks more like the cap from an old K6-2.
I really would consider these defects to be accidental if I had a launch model...but it isn't a launch model, and it isn't the second or third model either. By the time I bought my unit, YLODs were so common that "YLOD" had already become a generic term for a non-booting PS3...and from what I can tell, the cause is the same.
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Beno420
Member
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14. July 2010 @ 15:05 |
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I didn't know that there was a metal cover over the GPU and CPU. Next time I take another YLOD PS3 apart, im going to take a closer look at that.
As for the fan hack, is that done pretty simply or is there some parts required for the fan to run at full speed?
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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15. July 2010 @ 00:20 |
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