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How do the power and eject buttons work?
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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10. October 2010 @ 09:17 |
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Anyone know how the old fatline power and eject buttons work? It isn't a normal switch...I must know what is going on with these!
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coorva
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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10. October 2010 @ 09:31 |
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dont get what your saying,,you want to know if there heat activited,,thats the old ps3s right??
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bigo93
Senior Member
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10. October 2010 @ 10:19 |
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Actually they are normal switches, they arent heat sensitive or anything like that.
It's a thing strip of metal which is bent, it kindda acts like a spring, when you press down on it it presses the button then spring back up. Or it completes a circuit when it touches a metal pad below it, cant remember which.
But it's just a normal switch.
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coorva
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10. October 2010 @ 10:21 |
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yea,,killerbug,,you have takin alot of ps3s apart,,figured you would know this,,unless where missing something
microsoft after a ban wave
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. October 2010 @ 00:28 |
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Originally posted by bigo93:
Actually they are normal switches, they arent heat sensitive or anything like that.
It's a thing strip of metal which is bent, it kindda acts like a spring, when you press down on it it presses the button then spring back up. Or it completes a circuit when it touches a metal pad below it, cant remember which.
But it's just a normal switch.
This is not how it works at all. Check closer...if you take a small piece of wire and just touch the edge of the solder that holds the bent piece of metal to the mainboard, the system powers up. You do not need to complete a circuit, you do not need to bend the piece of metal, you do not need to apply heat. Look a bit closer still and you will find that the bent piece of metal is all one piece; not two pieces that could connect to eachother. Look even closer and you realize that there is only one trace going to the solderpad for each switch. There is nothing normal or ordinary about this switch...I have never seen such a switch in any other device, and I honestly don't even know what to call it, nor do I know what principal it works on.
[edit]
here is a jpg I found somewhere that shows the electrical diagram; I still can't figure it out!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. October 2010 @ 04:52
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bigo93
Senior Member
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12. October 2010 @ 10:23 |
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Yeah I decided to google it after I posted and you're right not normal switches.
Read a post that it may be a sensor which is triggered by a change in resistance.
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KajNrig
Senior Member
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12. October 2010 @ 13:42 |
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Don't you know? It's fairy dust.
No, but in all honesty, I was always under the assumption that it was a heat-activated thing. Or some other touch tech. I know nothing about these things, so I'll just leave this as it is.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. October 2010 @ 22:55 |
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I'm afraid my mind won't quit itself that easily...I have seen a kind of switch that has a failure rate of virtually 0, that does not need to move, and which requires no pressure to push. No one seems to know what it is, yet I know that more than 20 million of these switches were sold in the US alone (2 each for 10 million fatlines). Just think...a whole new species of switch that can be used in new ways.
I got that diagram from a guy that was trying to fix his switches...it seems he had a defective IC, as the switches themselves are in perfect shape and neither works. While I found many reports of switch failures on slimlines(already) and I found plenty of reports of people damaging the switches or board while working on the system, this is the only case I have found of the switches actually failing on their own (If you make 10 million systems, you are bound to get one or two bad ICs). I'm afraid it is a bit beyond me, and it seems to be a slightly different version of the design from what I have in my 40GB (the diagram is a 60GB I think).
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coorva
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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12. October 2010 @ 23:12 |
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bump
microsoft after a ban wave
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. October 2010 @ 23:16
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coorva
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12. October 2010 @ 23:14 |
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just asking,,did your great great grandfather build frankenstein,,i heard he didnt get any sleep until franky was alive,,but movin on,,you still need a little bit of force to turn on the console,,so the heat activated is down the stairs,my guess is a console ground,,that the switch grounds out some how which turns on the console,,im not deep into schematics like killerbug,,but i got a felling we will find out soon about the mystery around that switch,
microsoft after a ban wave
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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13. October 2010 @ 00:35 |
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The surface switches do need a tiny bit of pressure, but I think that is just due to loose connection between the bent metal things and the surface pads. When I tried turning the system on by touching a tiny piece of wire to the solder pads holding the bent metal things, the system turned on. I tried this several times, and it worked every time...just a momentary touch to the solder holding the bent metal thing is enough to flip the switch.
I wonder if it is some kind of capacitance...the bent metal things seem to connect to capacitors (at least that is what the diagram seems to show); perhaps the tiny change in electrons within the circuit cause the cap to drain or charge for a couple ms, and then that is sensed somehow?
Maybe I will solder a wire to one of the solder points...if it does not power itself up right away, I will try connecting a relay to see if the change from one disconnected throw to the other disconnected throw is enough to trigger it. At least that experiment would get me a rough start of an idea what I am working with...I just wish someone knew what these things are called so I could just look at the datasheet.
[edit]
I was just thinking that maybe the small metal inserts that you touch when the case is all together might be loose for a reason...so that they only come in contact with the "switch" when pressed.
...But at the same time, I know that the "switches" will also activate when the cover is off, and you touch them with your finger. When I get home, I will have to see if there is any pressure required for this finger-only method...I've got a few experiments to do when I get home.
[edit 2]
I think I might have found it...down the page where it says, "USING A TOUCH SWITCH IN A PROJECT"
http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/T...chSwitch-1.html
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. October 2010 @ 03:48
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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14. October 2010 @ 09:43 |
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I did a bit of testing. It appears that the switches operate by the power in your body! They are super-sensitive too.
I soldered a wire to the power switch pad, then flipped on the back power switch. The system stayed off. Then I touched the wire insulation (not even the wire itself) and the system turned on. We must be dealing with microvolts here.
I did a bit more experimenting...I found that when I connected this wire to a relay and then switched the relay, it did not turn on the system. I tried connecting a short wire to the relay output, but the results were the same. I then wrapped this wire (still insulated) around a 5V supply line. When I did the test this time, the system turned on.
So that is it...if you want to jailbreak your system with automated power-eject action, you know how to wire up the relays.
As for switching the system on and off in the back, I found that using a relay on the 5V supply wire going from the power supply to the mainboard had the same effect.
With that, I have a way of switching the USB, operating both buttons, and flipping the power switch...now I just have to build my kit and make a custom hex file for my arduino. I think it is my obligation to do this...because my luck is so bad that doing this will guarantee a CFW that needs none of it.
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coorva
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14. October 2010 @ 11:20 |
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Originally posted by KillerBug:
I did a bit of testing. It appears that the switches operate by the power in your body! They are super-sensitive too.
I soldered a wire to the power switch pad, then flipped on the back power switch. The system stayed off. Then I touched the wire insulation (not even the wire itself) and the system turned on. We must be dealing with microvolts here.
I did a bit more experimenting...I found that when I connected this wire to a relay and then switched the relay, it did not turn on the system. I tried connecting a short wire to the relay output, but the results were the same. I then wrapped this wire (still insulated) around a 5V supply line. When I did the test this time, the system turned on.
So that is it...if you want to jailbreak your system with automated power-eject action, you know how to wire up the relays.
As for switching the system on and off in the back, I found that using a relay on the 5V supply wire going from the power supply to the mainboard had the same effect.
With that, I have a way of switching the USB, operating both buttons, and flipping the power switch...now I just have to build my kit and make a custom hex file for my arduino. I think it is my obligation to do this...because my luck is so bad that doing this will guarantee a CFW that needs none of it.
hey you gave it a boyscott try,,and i thought the switches had something to do heat from your finger,,or the ground from the ps3 chassis,,
microsoft after a ban wave
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froman741
Newbie
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15. October 2010 @ 00:29 |
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I've been wondering how those worked.
Good work finding this out KillerBug
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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15. October 2010 @ 07:22 |
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Just thought of something that I should have realized yesterday...you don't need relays at all...this saves us not only the relays, but also the shielded wires. All that needs to be done is to take two of the digital outputs from a dev board, and wrap one around the power and another around the eject. The stay insulated...so when that digital output is switched on, the "switches" will detect those few microvolts needed! Should simplify things quite a bit...and it also removes the need to solder to the mainboard.
I think I better order my Arduino Pro Mini today so that I have it ready when I have built the parts of the board that still need to be built.
BTW...I really have to give sony credit for these switches; it is too bad they removed them on the slim units. I am still trying to figure out how they work; I want to install similar switches in my PC if I can.
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