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BD RB Beta released! - now at version 0.37.08 (April 23rd, 2011)
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3. January 2009 @ 11:06 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
good idea LOCO this is the future




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3. January 2009 @ 13:05 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
A standard DVD player isn't going to do anything with these discs, they are going to be in BD format.


creaper1
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3. January 2009 @ 15:53 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
You can use ConvertXtoDVD. It converts BR to dvd in about an hour. The quality is great also. Just use TsRemux or TsMuxerGUI first and you are set.
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3. January 2009 @ 15:57 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
I should wait for a smarter person but doesn't DVD RB Pro address these issues when it's "encoding" and "re-building" the 'movie' in "normal" DVD format? Very short answer but going by logic and intuition which I have very little of both. ;)


Greeny thank you for waiting;P


BD RB converts all of the current surround sound audio tracks to AC3 448Kpbs which should be compatible with any BD playback unit, and PC's with quality BD playback software.

The idea of doing backups with BD RB is to create a Blu-Ray disc that can be recorded to standard DVD single and dual layer media, but will playback as a Blu-Ray movie in a Blu-Ray player. The type of disc is not as important as the structure on the disc itself.


Since Loco has stickied this I've borrowed some information from jdobbs on setup

"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
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3. January 2009 @ 16:08 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Sorry, had overlooked stickying this before, nice one Loco.
Cheers Soph, i was pondering the audio side of things, it's making a lot more sense now.

/contemplates purchase of AnyDVD and a BD reader drive, but experimenting with BD ripping will have to wait until i find a job. Am looking forward to trying out BD Rebuilder, i don't ever get excited about programs but after running DVD Rebuilder for quite a while (and still being in awe of the output it and HC Encoder produces) it'll be nice to see what BD Rebuilder has to offer.



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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. January 2009 @ 16:10

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3. January 2009 @ 16:31 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Sophocles what determines you using a blank DVD-5 SL compared to using a DVD-9 DL to backup a blu-ray movie?




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3. January 2009 @ 16:42 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Creaky, loco just beat you to it. I wouldn't have thought that this was a sticky since it was last minute post before going to sleep.


Quote:
Sophocles what determines you using a blank DVD-5 SL compared to using a DVD-9 DL to backup a blu-ray movie?


The best gauge for measuring disc size is really the length of a movie which tells you what the total frames are. I've found that movies that fall in the 2 hour range do well on a single layer disc which is always good news since they are about one eighth the cost of a dual layer disc. I've had success with movies backed up to single layer disc that were 2 hours and 10 minutes in length, and not visual artifacts.

"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
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3. January 2009 @ 21:45 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Sophocles:
Originally posted by GM:
i edited my post..... :P


Greeny thank you for waiting;P


BD RB converts all of the current surround sound audio tracks to AC3 448Kpbs which should be compatible with any BD playback unit, and PC's with quality BD playback software.

The idea of doing backups with BD RB is to create a Blu-Ray disc that can be recorded to standard DVD single and dual layer media, but will playback as a Blu-Ray movie in a Blu-Ray player. The type of disc is not as important as the structure on the disc itself.


Since Loco has stickied this I've borrowed some information from jdobbs on setup
Yes thanks for the sticky. ;)

@Sophy.... :P I told you I should have waited... :D

This is interesting stuff... I'll wait for some time as I'm not entering into the BD arena yet... For 2 reasons... 1)Can't afford a stand alone BD player; 2)Can't afford a BD DVD internal reader either.... lol. :D

....gm

[img]quoted from creaky, "I think i need a break away from this thread, you are just talking absolute and utter nonsense now. Im off to ban myself and hit myself repeatedly with blunt objects. And if im still conscious after that im going to install Windows Me."[/img]
PC build thread blank media thread Ultimate DVD Backup resource thread what did binkie7 do to me???
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3. January 2009 @ 21:56 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
GM probably an external blu-ray ODD will be the way to go, I'm going to look into one




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3. January 2009 @ 22:41 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
This is interesting stuff... I'll wait for some time as I'm not entering into the BD arena yet... For 2 reasons... 1)Can't afford a stand alone BD player; 2)Can't afford a BD DVD internal reader either.... lol. :D

....gm

Greeny the wait was over.:D

All that you need to get started is a cheap reader, you know along the lines of the cheap PC parts you recommend. LMAO

If you get one of these and a copy of AnyDVD HD then you will have all that you need.


Note that I was not being mean! Hmm! Mean!! Green!! Greeny!! Meany!! On second thought by that logic it's all your fault.:P

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106273

"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
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4. January 2009 @ 00:00 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Sophocles:

Greeny the wait was over.:D

All that you need to get started is a cheap reader, you know along the lines of the cheap PC parts you recommend. LMAO

If you get one of these and a copy of AnyDVD HD then you will have all that you need.


Note that I was not being mean! Hmm! Mean!! Green!! Greeny!! Meany!! On second thought by that logic it's all your fault.:P

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...7106273


Yeh I saw that from another post. ;) It seems like a good drive even tho the reviews are crap. ;) I should resend the statement of NOT affording another drive. lol. I'm trying to get some other stuff right now and that's sucking all me cash away from puters for now. :D

....gm

add: Oh I know you "meant" nothing by it but I was wrong and don't mind admitting, fixing, or changing something to make it 'right'. :P

[img]quoted from creaky, "I think i need a break away from this thread, you are just talking absolute and utter nonsense now. Im off to ban myself and hit myself repeatedly with blunt objects. And if im still conscious after that im going to install Windows Me."[/img]
PC build thread blank media thread Ultimate DVD Backup resource thread what did binkie7 do to me???
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4. January 2009 @ 00:12 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
Yeh I saw that from another post. ;) It seems like a good drive even tho the reviews are crap. ;) I should resend the statement of NOT affording another drive. lol. I'm trying to get some other stuff right now and that's sucking all me cash away from puters for now. :D

Greeny you can always spend your money to get something to shoot stuff with later!:P

"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
.
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4. January 2009 @ 08:44 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Sophocles:
Quote:
Yeh I saw that from another post. ;) It seems like a good drive even tho the reviews are crap. ;) I should resend the statement of NOT affording another drive. lol. I'm trying to get some other stuff right now and that's sucking all me cash away from puters for now. :D

Greeny you can always spend your money to get something to shoot stuff with later!:P
Yeh I could but I'm afraid that the incoming regime will make it un-affordable for us normal people to buy anything that shoots stuff. :D

sorry for the OT... ;)

Sets back and learns more about this BD stuff. :O

...gm

[img]quoted from creaky, "I think i need a break away from this thread, you are just talking absolute and utter nonsense now. Im off to ban myself and hit myself repeatedly with blunt objects. And if im still conscious after that im going to install Windows Me."[/img]
PC build thread blank media thread Ultimate DVD Backup resource thread what did binkie7 do to me???
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4. January 2009 @ 16:43 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
A quick word. If anyone runs into a bug that they feel is a flaw in BD RB please report it. Don't be the kid in the back of a class too afraid to raise their hands. Reported bugs makes it better for us all.

"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
.
Moderator

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5. January 2009 @ 13:47 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
jdobbs is a longstanding member here soph, perhaps if this thread takes off you could put a bug in his ear.


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5. January 2009 @ 16:36 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
jdobbs is a longstanding member here soph, perhaps if this thread takes off you could put a bug in his ear.

I sent him a PM yesterday letting him know that I borrowed some information from his bug thread and he gave it the OK. He'll be along as soon as things get hopping. If anyone has any questions then post them and I'll let him know about them. He's been really busy lately on a project with his real job.

"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
.
Senior Member

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7. January 2009 @ 03:46 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Sophocles:
The best gauge for measuring disc size is really the length of a movie which tells you what the total frames are. I've found that movies that fall in the 2 hour range do well on a single layer disc which is always good news since they are about one eighth the cost of a dual layer disc. I've had success with movies backed up to single layer disc that were 2 hours and 10 minutes in length, and not visual artifacts.
I am not sure I agree with that completely....

What TV do you view these on? I have a Sharp 46" 1080p LCD and I can certainly tell the difference when too much compression is used.

I always use a dual layer DVD for 1080p BD rips. There has even been the odd occasion where I have used 2 DVD-9's for a 1080p BD rip (for example a 3 hour+ film). The only time I ever use a single layer disc is for a 720p encode (downloaded media or DTV capture etc.) and even then if it approaches the 2 hour+ mark I consider using a dual layer DVD. This is still much cheaper than burning to BD media. I get my dual layer discs for 80c AUD, which is 58c US.

I am very familiar with the x264 encoder settings and I am confident that I am able to set up the encoder for optimum quality (I have a download link for my MeGUI/x264 profiles on the thread link in my sig). However, with that said, too much compression and you start to lose detail. The picture will still look sharp and much better than regular DVD but I prefer to keep it as close to having as much detail as the original BD as possible... But each to their own. :-)

Also, after my recent Home Theater overhaul (photo's in my profile) lossy audio is starting to sound well... Lossy. The lossless track just sounds so much cleaner and defined. I can't wait for the price of BD media to come down. The best I have found is $12 AUD ($8.65 US). When they are closer to the $5 mark, I will consider using them then.

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. January 2009 @ 06:48

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7. January 2009 @ 18:34 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   

I am not sure I agree with that completely....


What TV do you view these on? I have a Sharp 46" 1080p LCD and I can certainly tell the difference when too much compression is used.


52 inch Samsung 1080P. I'm curious, at what bitrate do you re-encode at?

Quote:
I always use a dual layer DVD for 1080p BD rips. There has even been the odd occasion where I have used 2 DVD-9's for a 1080p BD rip (for example a 3 hour+ film).
I don't. Before I burn a disc I pre check it for quality on 24" S-PVA 1080P PC monitor.


Quote:
I am very familiar with the x264 encoder settings and I am confident that I am able to set up the encoder for optimum quality (I have a download link for my MeGUI/x264 profiles on the thread link in my sig). However, with that said, too much compression and you start to lose detail. The picture will still look sharp and much better than regular DVD but I prefer to keep it as close to having as much detail as the original BD as possible... But each to their own. :-)



Your familiarity with X.264 is not in question here. You do lose quality but at what point can one truly see the difference? Most true X/H.264 Mpeg4 BD discs use more bit rate than is need to achieve quality 1080P picture quality. I suspect that part of the reason is to prevent copying. If that's so then at what bitrate should one re-encode a BD movie. I find that under 20 mbps is more than adequate for 1080P, in fact I choose a bit lower than that when I re-encode.


Quote:
Also, after my recent Home Theater overhaul (photo's in my profile) lossy audio is starting to sound well... Lossy. The lossless track just sounds so much cleaner and defined. I can't wait for the price of BD media to come down. The best I have found is $12 AUD ($8.65 US). When they are closer to the $5 mark, I will consider using them then.


Am I saying that there is no loss? Nope! I know there is but if I can run two instances of an original along side a re-encode and I have to stare to see the differences, then why should I spend an extra $1.75 on a dual layer disc? My rule of thumb is 2 hours and down goes to a single layer disc. If the movie is 2 hours or more then I check the original to make certain that it's not an mpeg 2 BD disc.

Audio is definitely an area that I choose to save disc space with, and I do it for a reason. Most people's systems can't reproduce the quality differences between HD Audio and 640 Kpbs. In fact it is down right hard to find a system today that can, and even if it could the vast majority of people couldn't hear the differnces anywat. They might hear a difference but in a blind test they couldn't tell you which one is better. If a 640 Kpbs audio track is better mixed than an HD track, then the 640 kpbs track is going to sound better. Most people think that the high frequencies determine the quality so the one that sounds brighter is usually the one they pick. So what happens if the 640 Kpbs mix sounds brighter than the HD mix?

I am a trained and one time certificated studio engineer (although out of the studio for a number of years now) and before that a professional musician, and the first thing that one realizes is that there is no such thing as a lossless format. There is loss converting acoustical energy to electrical energy, during the recording/capture process, and then more through time delays, compressors, and digital reverbs' just to start. Then a final mix is made before transferring to CD, and by then we end up with about a 50% loss.


I appreciate your disagreement and respect you view, but for it to be completely true it would have to assume that view is wrong. I wouldn't suggest anything to anyone that I didn't think had merit.






"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
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david89
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8. January 2009 @ 00:14 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
does dvd-5 SL use 720p or is it 1080p
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8. January 2009 @ 05:37 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
The media is not a factor in the format.

1080P is just the picture being in 1920x1080 progressive scan format.

The media does however determine the amount of compression required to fit the movie onto the new media, and as such possible loss of quality.

Once played back, it will only work at 1080P on a compatible display, anyt display of lower res will only display the picture in that displays native format.


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8. January 2009 @ 06:36 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Sophocles:
52 inch Samsung 1080P. I'm curious, at what bitrate do you re-encode at?
I am burning in native BD/AVCHD format. As someone who is experienced in h264 encoding targeted for Blu-ray structure you should be quite familiar with bitrates etc. and I shouldn't really need to state this but I will break it down further below.

Originally posted by Sophocles:
Your familiarity with X.264 is not in question here. You do lose quality but at what point can one truly see the difference? Most true X/H.264 Mpeg4 BD discs use more bit rate than is need to achieve quality 1080P picture quality. I suspect that part of the reason is to prevent copying. If that's so then at what bitrate should one re-encode a BD movie. I find that under 20 mbps is more than adequate for 1080P, in fact I choose a bit lower than that when I re-encode.
A single layer disc holds 4,483MB, allowing for the approximate 6% header that the Blu-ray structure requires leaves 4,214MB of usable media space. If you were to re-encode a movie that is 1 hour 45 mins in length and have a single layer DVD as your target. Using Dolby Digital @ 640Kbs, you would be left with a video bitrate of 4,967Kbs. That to me is nowhere near enough bitrate to keep all the detail from a 1080p BD source and that is not even considering the discs that use 1536Kbs DTS audio as the core track (which would restrict video bitrate even further).

Originally posted by Sophocles:
Am I saying that there is no loss? Nope! I know there is but if I can run two instances of an original along side a re-encode and I have to stare to see the differences, then why should I spend an extra $1.75 on a dual layer disc? My rule of thumb is 2 hours and down goes to a single layer disc. If the movie is 2 hours or more then I check the original to make certain that it's not an mpeg 2 BD disc.
I am saying that I don't need to stare to see the differences, but as I mentioned earlier we are all different. A 35Mbs original down to a 5Mbs recode has it's obvious degradation. If we were to use a dual layer disc as I do for my above example, then that would allow for a video bitrate of 9,558Kbs (instead of the 4,967Kbs that a single layer disc would allow) which I feel is a far more acceptable bitrate for such a high quality source.

In regards to the cost of dual layer discs, I know three shops that I can get Ritek DVD+/-R DL's for 80c AUD/58c US (as mentioned earlier) so I don't see it as a budget buster to retain that extra level of quality.

Originally posted by Sophocles:
Audio is definitely an area that I choose to save disc space with, and I do it for a reason. Most people's systems can't reproduce the quality differences between HD Audio and 640 Kpbs.
Mine can.... If we were to go back a week then I would say that I couldn't hear the difference but since my Home Theatre upgrade I can certainly hear a difference between lossy and lossless audio tracks. The difference is as noticeable as mp3 vs. CD. With that said, until the price of BD media comes down that is one sacrifice I am prepared to make. I will extract the regular Dobly Digital/DTS core for the time being, or A) Just play them straight from my hard drive with my Home Theatre PC, or B) Enjoy the original BD discs I own with lossless audio.

Originally posted by Sophocles:
In fact it is down right hard to find a system today that can, and even if it could the vast majority of people couldn't hear the differnces anywat. They might hear a difference but in a blind test they couldn't tell you which one is better. If a 640 Kpbs audio track is better mixed than an HD track, then the 640 kpbs track is going to sound better. Most people think that the high frequencies determine the quality so the one that sounds brighter is usually the one they pick. So what happens if the 640 Kpbs mix sounds brighter than the HD mix?
Wouldn't it be fair to say that if we are comparing a lossless track vs. a lossy track from the same BD disc, that they were mastered with the same mixing? All we are talking about here is compressed audio algorithms and what they discard in order to save space vs. having an audio track that is sonically identical to the studio master (after transfer).

Originally posted by Sophocles:
I am a trained and one time certificated studio engineer (although out of the studio for a number of years now) and before that a professional musician, and the first thing that one realizes is that there is no such thing as a lossless format. There is loss converting acoustical energy to electrical energy, during the recording/capture process, and then more through time delays, compressors, and digital reverbs' just to start. Then a final mix is made before transferring to CD, and by then we end up with about a 50% loss.
I am fully aware of this. So why add to all this by further degrading quality with compression algorithms?


Originally posted by Sophocles:
I appreciate your disagreement and respect you view, but for it to be completely true it would have to assume that view is wrong. I wouldn't suggest anything to anyone that I didn't think had merit.
I am sorry but I didn't quite follow that last part. Please accept my apology for my lack of comprehension. I would like to say that all that I have stated above is simply my point of view. I am not expecting that you will share this. It is obvious that you are quite strongly set about the way you do things. However, I do feel that it is only fair for the benefit of other AfterDawn Members that they are able to gather other viewpoints in order to form their own way of doing things.

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. January 2009 @ 06:57

Senior Member

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8. January 2009 @ 11:53 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Ryu77:
I always use a dual layer DVD for 1080p BD rips. There has even been the odd occasion where I have used 2 DVD-9's for a 1080p BD rip (for example a 3 hour+ film).
Quote:
What method are you using to split the film over 2 discs?

My main concern is quality, if I need to change disc half way through a film, then so be it (if I can tell the difference).

It would be good to know how to do it, if I decide that option is what is needed.

Thanks in advance.


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8. January 2009 @ 12:38 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
tsMuxeR has a pretty good split feature. After your video stream is encoded (as a whole) mux to m2ts splitting half way, then take those m2ts' and either burn, or make AVCHD discs.


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8. January 2009 @ 16:11 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Downloaded, will give it a try.

Thanks for the info.


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8. January 2009 @ 23:39 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Any idea when a stable version of BD-RB will be out for use ?

I am very interested and will need a new fasrt quad core buit for the purpose.

"The flimsier the product,the higher the price"
Ferengi 82nd rule of aqusition


 
afterdawn.com > forums > software specific discussion > dvd / bd-rebuilder forum > bd rb beta released! - now at version 0.37.08 (april 23rd, 2011)
 

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