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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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1. June 2012 @ 17:35 |
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The best Dell monitor out there really is the U2711 - the pixel pitch is superb and it's half the price of the 30" despite having 90% of the pixels and being 80% of the size.
Omega: There are a few UHD monitors out there - the IBM T221 at 3840x2400 and 22" (yep, that pixel pitch) dates back to 2002 when LCDs were first released. If you think we're making progress with LCDs, these make you think again! Around $20,000 when new, these are going around refurbished on ebay for $1000-$1200 ish, but you need a special video adapter to run them as they use a proprietary interface format - they're also limited to a 48Hz refresh rate and have very low contrast - they're no gaming monitors.
On the more contemporary side, last year the EIZO FHD3601 was released, at 36" and 4096x2160 it's near-panoramic (256:135 or about 16:8.4) but it takes DVI (well, two dual-link of them to be precise) and runs the full 60Hz. Current pricing is around the $30,000-$35,000 mark.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. June 2012 @ 17:43
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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1. June 2012 @ 17:39 |
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Yes, at half the price, it's a better bargain. If one prefers the 16:9 resolution. I prefer 16:10 myself.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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1. June 2012 @ 17:41 |
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See above edit about bigger displays. Agreed on the 16:10, though that's very much a dying breed.
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7 product reviews
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1. June 2012 @ 17:42 |
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Wow, that made me drool LOL!
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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1. June 2012 @ 18:02 |
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Which one are you drooling over, the one at $30,000????
Kevin you've been saying 30" forever. Just go get one. I paid $850 for mine. The way you fry your cards and then just go out and toss out $350 for another, with one day's thought about it, like it was 50 cents - you have the money I know!
Even Jeff wants a 30" - he just won't admit it. He'll probably be the first on eyefinity - he'll just go straight to the 6-7 megapixels. Look Jeff, this is you on BF3.
Sam that earlier fact layout was indeed succinct and brilliant. I see that you agree that I run a sizable risk that the enormous and expensive monster wouldn't even boot on my LGA775 - and besides that they aren't even available. (I prefer to let you take those kinds of risks, lol.)
I particularly enjoyed this part:
"..........though it does amuse me to see the heated arguments flare up even in my absence, which goes some way to dispelling the commonly held belief that I'm the catalyst for all the negative conversations around here."
Hahahahaha. Have you and Russ and Stevo been slugging it out? Where have I been - sounds like fun. (I bet Shaff and DDP mix it up on this thread too!)
----------------------
But Sam, you didn't comment on my radical theory, that for my "mid-range mere 4 megapixel needs" the full 7970 is a tad bloated and power-hungry, not to mention costly, and I suspect that with a 7950, I can fully well equal 7970 performance - EVERY BIT IDENTICAL FPS - while consuming less power.
Still just a theory. One must be modest about these kinds of things, but e=mc squared comes to mind. :P
Rich
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1. June 2012 @ 19:08 |
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You're funny rich! I have $500 to my name. I do have one and a half jobs now. Unfortunately, the full time job is through a temp agency. And the work is fairly scarce right now. Probably due to my requesting a particular job. I plan to tell them soon, that any type of work will due. I'll have that 30" Dell one day soon. I'd also like a high dollar Canon camera!
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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1. June 2012 @ 19:42 |
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Kevin, you're more than halfway. This guy on ebay wants $650, or bid for it. He says he wants to sell it before he moves. You can ask if any stuck or dead pixels, etc. and he'll have to back up what he says. Sam had good luck buying used. Maybe you will too.
Rich
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1. June 2012 @ 19:58 |
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I'm patient. Now is not the time. I'm very close to paying off some debts, and repairing my credit. I'm only five hundred away from that :D Of course I won't go broke paying bills!
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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1. June 2012 @ 21:22 |
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Hahaha. You sound like me. I'm patient up the a** - which has made me the slowest upgrader in history - but my time is drawing near!!!
Hey guys, this is probably unkosher, but there's a guy over at Tom's hardware, blazorthon, who I am talking with. The guy has deep knowledge. I don't know if he's built thousands of PCs like you have, Stevo, but he might be a chip engineer. He got me started on thinking about the 7950. Here's what he just said, talking about the ability of crossfire 7950s to render a scene. Reading it, I have to parrot what Kevin said a couple hours ago, "I'm drooling."
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Two 7970s could do it with insanely high AA/AF, Ambient Occlusion, and so many other detail enhancing technologies that you'd think even the single 7970 or slightly overclocked 7950 running with high settings and AA looked moderate instead of incredible in comparison
My eye-candy hungry brain is telling me, that's one of the most powerful 40 word descriptions I ever read. I so want to experience what you guys have raved about - in Crysis for example - Jeff's stories about walking through the forest watching the Korean patrol, on very high settings, lol.
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. June 2012 @ 23:51
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Senior Member
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2. June 2012 @ 00:41 |
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Sam, whatever, get over yourself placebo boy.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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2. June 2012 @ 06:16 |
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Originally posted by harvrdguy:
Hahaha. You sound like me. I'm patient up the a** - which has made me the slowest upgrader in history - but my time is drawing near!!!
Hey guys, this is probably unkosher, but there's a guy over at Tom's hardware, blazorthon, who I am talking with. The guy has deep knowledge. I don't know if he's built thousands of PCs like you have, Stevo, but he might be a chip engineer. He got me started on thinking about the 7950. Here's what he just said, talking about the ability of crossfire 7950s to render a scene. Reading it, I have to parrot what Kevin said a couple hours ago, "I'm drooling."
Quote:
Two 7970s could do it with insanely high AA/AF, Ambient Occlusion, and so many other detail enhancing technologies that you'd think even the single 7970 or slightly overclocked 7950 running with high settings and AA looked moderate instead of incredible in comparison
My eye-candy hungry brain is telling me, that's one of the most powerful 40 word descriptions I ever read. I so want to experience what you guys have raved about - in Crysis for example - Jeff's stories about walking through the forest watching the Korean patrol, on very high settings, lol.
Rich
There is a considerable element of truth in that post - I don't frequent THG generally because their main site is garbage, but whoever you're speaking with has a fair idea. The more you realise you can achieve, the more dissatisfied you become with what you used to have - that applies in all walks of life, not just graphics performance. One thing that's often banded about is to avoid 120Hz unless you have the funds to commit to guaranteeing 120fps in the games you play, because once you realise what you were missing, you'll suddenly realise 60Hz was inadequate - yet people that haven't seen 120Hz much in action will be perfectly satisfied.
I haven't ventured into 120Hz (yet) because it does not work at 2560x1600 res. By specification it does, Displayport supports it, but there is no display out there currently capable, not even with the $30,000 price tag of the aforementioned EIZO.
After a year of comparative under-investment in my hardware, the end result of a month's worth of absurdity at work (75 hour working weeks for sub-minimum wage, endless employment discussions) I do at least have a fairly minimally paid full-time job on my hands, for which my first payment date is July 7th. So, after the immediately overdue debts are paid off, I can start to think about stuff like hardware again.
As far as the HD7950 vs HD7970 argument goes, there is a fairly sizeable difference between the two cards. You'd have to overclock a 7950 a lot to match a 7970. It is possible, but further, the HD7970 can be overclocked considerably too. That said, so can the GTX670 which is a better value card to start with - but would you want to overclock a GTX670, given nvidia's past track record with hardware quality? It's a difficult decision, not one I'd want to be making. I'm somewhat glad I'm not currently in that position!
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2. June 2012 @ 06:30 |
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Jeff, I keep thinking of you, every time I think of crossfire 7950 instead of 7970. You did the same thing - which family was it, 6000, 5000, 4000? It's been a while, but then I think I recall that you more recently upgraded, is that right?
Just need to look at my sig Rich. Twin 6850s overclocked faster than 6870s. From 775/1000 to 940/1150 :D
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You have had spectacular results on 2.3 megapixel gaming, running everything in full settings, while I have watched on the sidelines for three years, with my 4 megapixel requirement.
Sometimes it's not enough, even only on 1920 x 1200. But it's not a video power limitation, it's a video memory limitation. Luckily it's just a matter of using less AA, say 4x instead of 8x or 2x instead of 4x even. Whatever it takes to stay inside the memory limitation. 2GB cards are a must for anything larger :S Though I will mention that the only game this has seemed to be an issue for is Battlefield 3 and maybe possibly Skyrim but am still investigating that.
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At that time he said it would be 3 more generations before we could play crysis at Very High, and he was right.
Not only do I run it perfectly at Very High, I have several mods that further enhance the graphics. Wonderful little article floating around the internet with some recommended mods. Not only do they improve the ugly spots, they improve the pretty spots as well as fixing a LOT of the graphical glitches in the stock game. I dare say it's still the prettiest game ever with these mods. In particular they fix everything Sam and I complained about, the main mod being a high resolution texture replacement where all the good textures are re sampled and filtered, and all the bad textures are replaced :D That way 99% of the original textures and artwork are entirely intact, only better.
The second part of the modding is a foliage replacer, which was singly the prettiest and most ugly part of the game. Instead of being a mass of blobs, every single leaf, frond and blade has an individual texture and fine details. I say that fits the game even better than the stock textures, as they put a LOT LOT LOT of work into the foliage engine. Physics on every bush and tree, every palm frond, every tree trunk, every blade of grass. Everything deforms as you walk by or sways realistically in the wind. If they're going to put that much effort into kickass foliage, the textures better match lol.
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I have the sneaking suspicion that, as a cooler chip without "the baggage" of those extra processors, it might actually overclock better than the 7970. The review suggested as much.
At identical clocks, it seems to perform only about 2-3% less fps on demanding titles, and I could probably make up for that, by a slightly higher clock. I could equal the 7970 performance, but still use less wattage. What I am saying is that the extra processors on the 7970 are not really needed for my mid-range 4 megapixel load, and only get in the way by adding wattage and heat.
How's that for a radical theory!! Hahahaha
I think that's a very solid plan. My 6850s overclock like MAD and I'll never go back. Even with the difference in stream processors my overclocked 6850s are easily faster than a pair of 6870s. I dare say that was worth the effort :P
Just remember Rich, to use a custom fan profile if you intend to overclock. Nothing too extreme but setting it maybe 10% more aggressive can make a difference and entirely offset any heat added from OCing. Sapphire Trixx is the BEST video overclocking program I've found for AMD cards. MSI Afterburner is outdated, very buggy, unreliable and interferes with clock throttling (power saving throttling, not ULPS ie Ultra Low Power State, which is disabled for any overclocking.) It's also very bloated and adds extra crap you don't need.
Meanwhile Trixx is a simple exe and works fine with basic clock throttling as well. It's also not driver dependent like Afterburner so works with AMD cards on a hardware level. It's simply the better application for AMD cards. Both Afterburner and Evga Precision add extra bloat and are buggy at best.
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Agreed on the 16:10, though that's very much a dying breed.
Though not necessarily a bad thing Sam. The wider aspect ratio is wonderful but the key will be producing resolutions higher than 1080p. As it stands it's a wider 22" display, not a narrower 24" one as far as FOV, pixel pitch and resolution are concerned.
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Even Jeff wants a 30" - he just won't admit it. He'll probably be the first on eyefinity - he'll just go straight to the 6-7 megapixels. Look Jeff, this is you on BF3.
I do want a 30", but I'm not as masochistic as you or Sam either ;P
------------------------------------------
Also agreed with the entirety of the last post. I agree with Sam, Rich, that having the high-end options available for so long makes other setups look pedestrian in comparison. I might be struggling to run games, but only because I'm using high levels of AA. My struggle is actually to maintain a solid 60FPS average, not playable frames :P:P:P
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After a year of comparative under-investment in my hardware, the end result of a month's worth of absurdity at work (75 hour working weeks for sub-minimum wage, endless employment discussions) I do at least have a fairly minimally paid full-time job on my hands, for which my first payment date is July 7th. So, after the immediately overdue debts are paid off, I can start to think about stuff like hardware again.
Welcome to the working world Sam, LOL. But yeesh 75 hours is a LONG week. Congrats on some real income though. It sucks to be strapped for cash. Am currently facing the same dilemma, but am sitting on a small sum waiting for a prime upgrade option to come along :)
I was working nights, up until last week and probably will be again come Christmas season. $2/hr extra for night shift though :) Otherwise somewhat above minimum wage, but with some minor benefits. $1250 a year dental coverage, and a week's paid vacation, not to mention work incentives for when night shifts pickup and time-and-a-half overtime on busy holidays :D
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. June 2012 @ 07:00
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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2. June 2012 @ 07:20 |
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BTW just took a look at 3DMark 11 guys. Wish I would have checked it out sooner. Much better designed and MUCH prettier than 3DMark Vantage. Even 3DMark 06 was prettier than Vantage.
3D Mark 11 is IMPRESSIVE. It is a sight to behold, though the Extreme Preset(top settings, 1080p) is a bit much for my system. The stock Performance Preset(mid settings 720p) at 1080p is wonderful though and Extreme Performance at 720p is amazing as well.
The 3DMark team have shown great interest in, and reverence for, WWII as well. Several tests in the past included A squadron of B-17s on a bombing run and 3DMark 11 has deep sea submersibles exploring a World War era U-Boat wreck, all to stirring music :P
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. June 2012 @ 07:52
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2. June 2012 @ 23:31 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Originally posted by harvrdguy:
Hahaha. You sound like me. I'm patient up the a** - which has made me the slowest upgrader in history - but my time is drawing near!!!
Hey guys, this is probably unkosher, but there's a guy over at Tom's hardware, blazorthon, who I am talking with. The guy has deep knowledge. I don't know if he's built thousands of PCs like you have, Stevo, but he might be a chip engineer. He got me started on thinking about the 7950. Here's what he just said, talking about the ability of crossfire 7950s to render a scene. Reading it, I have to parrot what Kevin said a couple hours ago, "I'm drooling."
Quote:
Two 7970s could do it with insanely high AA/AF, Ambient Occlusion, and so many other detail enhancing technologies that you'd think even the single 7970 or slightly overclocked 7950 running with high settings and AA looked moderate instead of incredible in comparison
My eye-candy hungry brain is telling me, that's one of the most powerful 40 word descriptions I ever read. I so want to experience what you guys have raved about - in Crysis for example - Jeff's stories about walking through the forest watching the Korean patrol, on very high settings, lol.
Rich
There is a considerable element of truth in that post - I don't frequent THG generally because their main site is garbage, but whoever you're speaking with has a fair idea. The more you realise you can achieve, the more dissatisfied you become with what you used to have - that applies in all walks of life, not just graphics performance. One thing that's often banded about is to avoid 120Hz unless you have the funds to commit to guaranteeing 120fps in the games you play, because once you realise what you were missing, you'll suddenly realise 60Hz was inadequate - yet people that haven't seen 120Hz much in action will be perfectly satisfied.
I haven't ventured into 120Hz (yet) because it does not work at 2560x1600 res. By specification it does, Displayport supports it, but there is no display out there currently capable, not even with the $30,000 price tag of the aforementioned EIZO.
After a year of comparative under-investment in my hardware, the end result of a month's worth of absurdity at work (75 hour working weeks for sub-minimum wage, endless employment discussions) I do at least have a fairly minimally paid full-time job on my hands, for which my first payment date is July 7th. So, after the immediately overdue debts are paid off, I can start to think about stuff like hardware again.
As far as the HD7950 vs HD7970 argument goes, there is a fairly sizeable difference between the two cards. You'd have to overclock a 7950 a lot to match a 7970. It is possible, but further, the HD7970 can be overclocked considerably too. That said, so can the GTX670 which is a better value card to start with - but would you want to overclock a GTX670, given nvidia's past track record with hardware quality? It's a difficult decision, not one I'd want to be making. I'm somewhat glad I'm not currently in that position!
7950 versus 7970, the performance difference is in the clock frequency difference. The 7950@ 975MHz is equal to the 7970 and at the same frequencies as the 7970 is less than 5% slower. The 7970 only has four more blocks than the 7950 (32 instead of 28) and increasing parallelism of a GPU scales performance poorly compared to increasing clock frequency. As the core count goes up, the scaling of increasing the core counts gets worse and worse. Heck, even a highly overclocked Radeon 7850 can meet the reference Radeon 7970 in performance, although the 7850 can't compete against an overclocked 7970 and I know this from experience.
Point is the 7950 only needs a moderate overclock to catch the 7970 (from 800MHz to about 975MHz or so and with a memory frequency boost to the 7970's 1375MHz). The 7950 and the 7970 have similar limits and the 7950 can often actually go to a slightly higher GPU frequency than the 7970 due to it having greater thermal headroom (fewer cores decreases power usage almost linearly, so at the same frequency, the 7950 uses less power). Many 7950s have the exact same cooler as the 7970, so they can be pushed to higher frequencies before cooling becomes a problem. This helps them meet the 7970 in overclocking performance, so long as there isn't another problem holding them back.
The reference GTX 670 is on-par with the reference Radeon 7970 overall at 2560x1600 (they trade blows as to which card wins, mostly depending on how memory bandwidth limited each game is at the settings you want to play at) when both are at stock frequencies and since the 670 is cheaper and uses less power, it is often considered the better buy, but like what you said seems to imply, the Radeon 7950 and 7970 beat the GTX 670 and 680 at overclocking.
Sure, core count isn't the only thing that goes down when you lose a few blocks, but nothing else that is lost mattered any more than the cores. Performance numbers speak for themselves:
http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/...clocks/?page=10
@harvrdguy
For a 4MP 120Hz display configuration, maybe you could try something like what the guy in the youtube video that you linked did, except with three 1600x900 120Hz monitors. It would be more like 4.3MP, but it's close to 2560x1600's 4MP and unless I'm mistaken, it could have a 120Hz refresh rate. Also, thanks for introducing me :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. June 2012 @ 23:45
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5. June 2012 @ 16:45 |
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Hi Guys,
Good to see you Rich! It's been a while.
Well, I finally got completely moved in. Having to move twice in less than 30 days, is not my idea of fun at all, but we did luck out this time around though, and monetarily we came out pretty well. Since I couldn't do a whole lot physically, I decided I was going to get every legal dime I could, out of the crooked realtor's and an even more crooked, Fannie Mae.
Since I couldn't do much I spent my time on-line wading through the pile of rat turds, they call law, and exploited every legal loophole I could find. Our new landlord turned out to be a Real Estate Attorney, so I asked him if he would look over the paperwork and see if I missed anything. He made me feel pretty good when he looked it all over, and told me that I had done a better job than half of the Lawyers that work for him do, plus he put his Law firm's name to it and we filed it with the Courts, requesting immediate relief because of all the costs involved. In total, we beat them out of everything they were planning to steal from us, plus damages, and our landlord got the legal fees of $2500. We effectively wound up with not having to pay any rent for the entire 16 months this dragged on. We got a $2500 bonus for moving from the second house within 30 days, the 3 months free rent that was not in the original Escrow account, the whole Escrow account plus interest and fees. It all came out to just under $12,000, plus Fannie Mae got nailed for a $25,000 penalty for trying to force an illegal eviction, as there was no legal deed in the eviction papers, as required by law, because while Fannie Mae technically owned the property, without the deed they could not legally take rent from us, because they were not the legal owners. To top it off, our new landlord got his fee, and was so happy with the way it all worked out, and lowered our rent by $50 a month. The whole courtroom ordeal was over in 20 minutes. As the judge was reading his order, the Fannie Mae lawyer kept objecting, but the judge just put his hand up, like "talk to the hand" and continued reading, and the decision cannot be appealed because of the illegal eviction attempt. He ordered them to prepare a Cashiers Check for $11,993.47 payable to Russell, and a cashiers Check, payable to our attorney for $2500, to be delivered by Currier, in no later than 3 business days, and put Fannie Mae on notice that he was filing the entire matter with the US Attorney's office, for criminal investigation. I would say that our day in Court, was a rousing success! I'm happy because we beat the bastards at their own rigged game! ROFLMSOAO!! Got to cross all those "I's" and dot all those "T's"! LOL!!
God! You guys and your video! LOL I'm sure glad I grew out of that long ago. I mean, back in the day video cards were expensive, but not by today's standards. I do love the new GTX-550 though. I do have one question. I've always been under the impression, based on information here at AD that it didn't matter very much what you had for a video card when it came to DVD video, and I had the GT-9500 and the HD-4670, and never noticed any real difference in video playback between these two cards and the GForce-5200 I had originally when playing DVDs. About a month after I installed the GTX-550, I watched Avatar, and was totally stunned by the noticeable change in the 3D effect, and the fact that when you are looking down as Jake looks over the side of the tree, and especially when they are flying the Banshee's and diving and bobbing in and out, The stunning 3D effect get's my stomach all queasy. I was never afraid of heights, having climbed the George Washington Bridge towers many times, and they are just over 600' tall, climbing up the steel (the stairs take way too long). Today I couldn't do that because I would just freeze, the minute I look down. I can't even walk across it anymore, yet I can walk across the Brooklyn Bridge's wide center wooden pedestrian walkway, no problem. Obviously the video card has a lot to do with this, because it's the same monitor. Can anyone explain to me why there is so much difference?
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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5. June 2012 @ 17:34 |
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I assume this is anaglyphic 3D with cyan/red glasses? I can only assume it's something to do with how the filters get rendered. Most of the 3D effects seen nowadays are stereoscopic which not only behaves totally differently, but should also be less affected by colour changes.
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6. June 2012 @ 03:18 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
I assume this is anaglyphic 3D with cyan/red glasses? I can only assume it's something to do with how the filters get rendered. Most of the 3D effects seen nowadays are stereoscopic which not only behaves totally differently, but should also be less affected by colour changes.
Sam,
No glasses. I can do that as well as the stereoscopic. I guess you would call it 2D, but the 3D effect and depth is stunning. It never looked like this with the other three cards. I have the Cuda cores enabled as well.
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. June 2012 @ 05:12 |
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I'm not sure I know what you mean. If it's a 2D image source on a 2D display I wouldn't know what '3D' is referring to - perhaps the ability to perceive depth in a 2D image? I would have thought contrast is all that would affect that.
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Senior Member
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6. June 2012 @ 14:20 |
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TV in general tricks your eyes so that argument would be a moot point and really is ridiculous to argue about as well as whether you use color or shutters to filter, other then the possible issues with color film.
I went and saw The Avengers in 3D which was a good movie and I enjoyed the 3D but 3D today sucks compared to what it was years ago.
Not impressed,
Stevo
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6. June 2012 @ 19:47 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
I'm not sure I know what you mean. If it's a 2D image source on a 2D display I wouldn't know what '3D' is referring to - perhaps the ability to perceive depth in a 2D image? I would have thought contrast is all that would affect that.
Sam,
I guess that Perceived Depth is what I'm talking about then. It still more than that though, since it appears that the overall dimensionality of the picture has improved as well, with the new GTX-550. It's so much more like looking out a window in real life, instead of a computer screen. It's impressive to see!
I've got to get that monitor shipped off to Steve, now that we have finally gotten everything in the house set up after the two moves!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. June 2012 @ 20:40 |
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Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
TV in general tricks your eyes so that argument would be a moot point and really is ridiculous to argue about as well as whether you use color or shutters to filter, other then the possible issues with color film.
I went and saw The Avengers in 3D which was a good movie and I enjoyed the 3D but 3D today sucks compared to what it was years ago.
Not impressed,
Stevo
Steve,
No argument here. I'm just trying to understand what I'm seeing and why such a huge difference, just by changing to a better video card.
I agree on the TV tricking you, but most of that is caused by Phosphor Persistence with a CRT, something an LCD screen does not have.
You're right, modern 3D does suck. I took a ladyfriend's daughter to see the original "House of Wax" for her 12th birthday, way back in 82. Her mom originally planned to go, but was sick that day. I had serious reservations about taking her by myself, because although she was just 12, she didn't look like a little kid, she looked like a "drop dead" gorgeous young woman, shrunk down proportionally to about 4' 5" (she had started puberty right after her 8th birthday), and we were giggling and carrying on like a couple of teenagers (I was 38), at all the usual hooky effects that for some reason they somehow always feel compelled to include in 3D movies. The glasses were polarized and looked like sunglasses. Great movie!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Senior Member
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6. June 2012 @ 22:32 |
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Ya I saw that one too but didn't have a hot chick with me on that one, went with the guys. The polarized glasses worked well for me. I did have a 3D PC rig a decade or so ago that was active shutter and it worked quite well too, as a matter of fact I still have the active glasses for it but not the video card that went with it.
The trick of the eye is the shutter effect of course but on old CRT's they had persistence and two fields, but fanning cards with stills can create the same effect as does film in a movie theater as you certainly know of course.
Glad to hear you are settled in and things are going your way again.
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harvardguy
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9. June 2012 @ 04:29 |
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Holy moly, Blazorthon popped in! I've been gone for a week in LA and then massive paperwork on this new real estate escrow, and I went over to Tom's hardware finally tonight and answered his post from before I left. Then I thought I'd pop over here - AND HE already dropped by! Great!!
Blaze - I don't get how you got the full 10 letters of your name. They must have changed the limit which used to be 9.
Hahaha. Look guys - full size nick, no more harvrdguy contraction. Yay! Thanks blazorthon, I'm back to newbie, but it was worth it. (I had to do that quick before some other guy took the name.)
Hey Russ - how are you? You're right - it's been a while. The graphics thread dried out and I'm back. I am sure all you guys know, (but Blazorthon, you won't know) - Russ is a great connoisseur of full-size theatrical organs. He uploaded some huge files that I picked up on several years ago, and it was the most magnificent organ music I have ever heard.
Wow, Russ, have you been doing some interesting real estate stuff, and beating Fannie Mae in court - good for you!! Incredible! Yes, I have heard that the banks have been successfully sued and beaten, my short sale negotiator was telling me, but I never heard a personal story - CONGRATULATIONS!!!!
Well, Jeff that was another great post. So you've come up with yet another mod for crysis that fixes all the texture problems! Well don't be coy - I'm not as savvy as you and I might not find it - so please, how about a link! In the next few days I'm going to print out your post and put it in my paperport crysis folder.
I'm so close to upgrading the graphics card I can taste it. Pretty soon now I will be able to run that game - maybe not with just one 7950, but surely with two.
I think while this escrow tries to close over the next two weeks, (nothing as exciting as what Russ has been involved with) I'll get to work on beginning the Q9450 overclock which I never messed with since I have been so gpu bottlenecked all this time.
And I guess I'll eventually have to pick up that new 3dmark - World War II - that's what I like!
Blazorthon, I hope you'll be popping by regularly. Your technical knowledge will mesh with these guys, and if you actually decide to try that eyefinity you talked about, or the one in the youtube video (guys they won't let me link since I'm a newb) then we're going to want to hear how it works out!
[Edit - Hey Mr. Moderator, DDP, whoever it is. Please elevate me beyond new back to where I was as harvrdguy so I can post some links and pictures per normal - or maybe that no-spamming worry disappears after a few posts, lol]
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. June 2012 @ 04:45
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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9. June 2012 @ 05:34 |
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Quote:
Well, Jeff that was another great post. So you've come up with yet another mod for crysis that fixes all the texture problems! Well don't be coy - I'm not as savvy as you and I might not find it - so please, how about a link! In the next few days I'm going to print out your post and put it in my paperport crysis folder.
I used this as a basic guide.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1014933/a-gu...ods-56k-warning
This list is outdated and some of the mods included mess with the original artwork, lighting, etc, and basically change the general ambiance which Crysis already had right. But it does have some excellent screenshot comparisons for most of the mods I used.
Remember, my modding always aims to enhance stock assets, not add new ones. I also concentrate on not affecting functionality so any mods that need special BS just to run are a big nono in my book. All of the mods I will link you to need simply to be dropped in "Program Files/Crytek/Crysis/Game" and they apply automatically when you run the game. Removing them is as easy as deleting the appropriate file.
Allow me to explain which mods I chose and why I feel they enhance the game.
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Global Ambient Lighting POM/AF
http://www.mediafire.com/?gzgd32gml24k4q5
Basically all the wonderful parallax occlusion mapping(bump mapping on everything) doesn't have the proper visual effect when used in combination with anisotropic filtering. This is simply a tweaked shader that allows AF to work without reducing the effect of POM. Highly recommended even if you don't intend to mod Crysis.
High Resolution Foliage Final
http://www.mediafire.com/?o69a2tojg7socd1
The foliage system in Crysis is radically advanced, even compared to more modern games. Swaying in the breeze, bushes deforming around you as you walk by, volumetrics(ie being able to hide in tall grass and bushes) etc etc. Its main downfall is the actual texture resolution of the individual leaves. So one of the most advanced aspects of Crysis got the worst treatment and needed modding the most. This mod is a wonderful upgrade on its own.
HD Grass
http://www.mediafire.com/?s1j93zz5qihip3b
The "High Resolution Foliage Final" mod covers most everything but palm trees and grass. This mod simply re-samples all the grass textures to a higher resolution. Is a GREAT companion to the foliage textures.
New Crysis Rocks
http://www.mediafire.com/?hceb7tah3qe97bl
Ugh, stock rock textures in Crysis are horrible. Much akin to Far Cry 1. I believe this is one thing Sam made adamantly clear that he did not like. This small mod is another wonderful enhancement that feels like it should have been there to begin with.
New Palm tree Texture
http://www.mediafire.com/?xgdegw5b4pfz4be
Another wonderful enhancement made by the same author who did "New Crysis Rocks". This is a simple texture enhancement that applies separately from the foliage textures. Basically palm trees in Crysis have the wrong bark on them, LOL. Simply put they used the wrong texture for palm trees, and this mod changes that to something more natural for palm trees normally found in the Philippines(where Crysis takes place). It also enhances the textures of the palm leaves themselves so is a great compliment to "High Resolution Foliage Final" which does not touch the palm trees or leaves at all.
New Water Shader
http://www.mediafire.com/?st832gy8q1udjcs
The water in Crysis is another very advanced feature and actually one of the prettiest aspects of the game. Thus it really doesn't need a mod at all, but this mod is very good. The surface ripples and waves in Crysis are a shader effect while the water itself is a volumetric body(ie the water and waves on top of the water are two separate effects). This mod increases the height of waves, adds more whitecaps, increases reflection resolution, etc etc. Basically the water in Crysis is spectacular but way too calm to be ocean water. This mod enhances the realism of the water while actually keeping Crytek's stock effects. I believe it also includes rolling waves washing up on the shore.
Reygels Texture Mod
http://www.fileplanet.com/194825/190000...igh-Texture-Mod
This is by far the largest mod I use for Crysis and one of the most spectacular. It basically re-samples, re-filters and re-bumps every stock texture in the game. This mod technically uses Crytek's stock artwork just completely re-processed. It leaves the look of the game intact while including higher resolution textures. Everything is much sharper, bump mapping has been re-done and is much more pronounced, and the performance impact is very slight as well due to still being stock textures. This mod makes Crysis really POP!
IMPORTANT FIX FOR REYGEL'S TEXTURE MOD:
1. Open zzTexturesupdatepart1.pak with WinRar.
2. Then browse to Objects/natural/Bushes/RoundLeafBush and delete Leaves_a.dds
Fixes: The mistake which the blades of the trees become transparent in the distance. You must simply open zzTexturesupdatepart1.pak with WinRar. Then browse to Objects/natural/Bushes/RoundLeafBush and delete Leaves_a.dds
Now on to my System.cfg file
con_restricted = 0 (allows any tweaks here to take effect
sys_budget_videomem = 1024 (set to whatever your video memory is for slightly less hitching)
s_SpeakerConfig = 5 (simply allows you to force which audio mode the game uses, As Crysis uses directsound, it can sometimes wrongly detect headphones, stereo 5.1 etc. I have it set for 5.1 surround here)
r_UseEdgeAA = 2 (this is Crysis' solution to proper AA. AA itself doesn't really work in Crysis at all, but still has a huge FPS impact. Thus I don't recommend using traditional AA in Crysis at all. Using EdgeAA is an acceptable substitute)
e_detail_materials_view_dist_xy = 4096 (Forces distant textures, mostly mountains, to a higher resolution. Stock is 2048. This has zero performance impact but huge graphical gains)
sys_physics_cpu = 3 (This tells Crysis which core to use for Havok Physics. On a quad core, cores 0, 1, and 2 get the most load, so moving physics to core 3, ie the fourth core, can help performance IMMENSELY in several scenes of the game. On a tri-core you would use core 2, and on a dual you would use core 1. Remember cores are numbered 0, 1, 2, 3, etc. I can PROVE the gains from this tweak with repeatable results. The FPS doubles in some very physics-intense areas.)
r_MultiGPU = 1 (this simply forces the game to use MultiGPU better. Not necessary unless using Crossfire or SLI)
r_TexturesStreaming = 0 (Crysis originally uses a streaming texture system to cut down on video memory usage. The problem is it causes pop-in and hitching like mad. Disabling streaming textures increases video memory usage but overall improves performance and smoothness)
g_battledust_enabled = 1 (This simply forces BattleDust to be enabled. Some video cards are detected wrongly, and don't render this effect at all. This just ensures it stays on)
r_SSAO = 1 (Simply ensuring another effect is forced on)
r_TexMaxAnisotropy = 16 (Make sure this is set to 16 and your AF is turned on in the control panel for the AF/POM mod to work.)
r_UsePOM = 1 (Another forced on setting to ensure no conflicts)
The final product on my machine looks like this:
con_restricted = 0
sys_budget_videomem = 1024
s_SpeakerConfig = 5
r_UseEdgeAA = 2
e_detail_materials_view_dist_xy = 4096
sys_physics_cpu = 3
r_MultiGPU = 1
r_TexturesStreaming = 0
g_battledust_enabled = 1
r_SSAO = 1
r_TexMaxAnisotropy = 16
r_UsePOM = 1
Create a file called System.cfg(make sure it's actually a cfg file and not a text file with a CFG extension in the name. Turning off "Hide Known File Extensions" ensures you can create a cfg by saving a text file with the .cfg extension.
Simply drop this file into "Program Files/Crytek/Crysis"
It's also worth noting that for best performance Crysis should be played in 32-bit Dx10. 64-bit is badly implemented in this game and the 32-bit exe is already Large Address Aware. Repeated testing shows 64-bit kills performance.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. June 2012 @ 06:20
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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9. June 2012 @ 06:30 |
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Click the pics for a larger resolution. Sorry you poor 56k bastards :P
Sam's blasted rocks LOL. And the new POM effect with AF enabled. Notice the little 3D rocks and debris all over the ground. THAT'S Parallax Occlusion Mapping. Previously, using AF in combination with this effect meant all the POM effects were blurred and distorted.
A shot of the new foliage and grass.
An overall shot showing the new textures, foliage, distant mountain textures, etc.
A shot of the new palm trees and more new rocks
Even more of the beautiful new rocks and a good open shot of the new ground texture. Most of the game has been re-textured to this quality.
A shot of the new water and most importantly, the high resolution mountains as affected by the distant textures tweak.
A different view of the rocks and a GREAT shot of the new water. The differences are more apparent when the game is in-motion.
Keep in mind that Crysis uses per-object motion blur, so the game is much sharper in motion than it is in screenshots. Even foliage swaying in the wind blurs without the player moving at all.
This is just a taste Rich. I'm not even in the really pretty part of the game yet :D
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. June 2012 @ 06:49
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