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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition
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Senior Member
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9. October 2013 @ 08:46 |
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Yes it did Sammy, I didn't get it all but it's a start for me, I'm not good or have ever been in schooling, why if something didn't interest me in school I was bored, the way most teachers explained things it was boring, I sucked in every subject except history, geography and of course gym lol, I always had and still do bad with text explanations, to put a bike together I need to read the manual 50 times before I get it, and at times that won't work, but you show me one time and I got it, e.g. I have learned so much more messing around on the Internet than I ever did in school, if I still can't get something I can youtube it, more than half the time somebody shows it to you, anyway I did get most of what you explained, I know it's small potatoes to you guys but it's a big thing for me, for a young man Sammy you should apply for a teaching job, become a dean or something like that.
As a kid growing up we all admired the bad asses, the cool one's, the athletes, when you get older you realize how stupid that was, and I know I have said it before and I will keep on saying it, I admire and appreciate the help I get from all you guys.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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9. October 2013 @ 12:01 |
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Here's another way to explain it. Ever download a music album Fred? The General consensus, is that 128kbit/s is agreeable. Myself, I prefer a minimum of 192kbit/s. This is bitrate. Go below 128, and it will become obvious, that the MP3 file is seriously lacking the original source information/quality. Compression algorithms, are coded to remove imperceptible audio ranges efficiently, with size in mind. The same goes for video. With video, it obviously takes color space into account. Lets say a single frame has 300 shades of red, and 20 of them are highly similar. ;) Compress too much, and you begin to lose the gradient like effect. And lighting will begin to look wrong.
And of course, this is basic, and only the tip of the iceberg.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. October 2013 @ 12:02
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Senior Member
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9. October 2013 @ 13:58 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
Here's another way to explain it. Ever download a music album Fred? The General consensus, is that 128kbit/s is agreeable. Myself, I prefer a minimum of 192kbit/s. This is bitrate. Go below 128, and it will become obvious, that the MP3 file is seriously lacking the original source information/quality. Compression algorithms, are coded to remove imperceptible audio ranges efficiently, with size in mind. The same goes for video. With video, it obviously takes color space into account. Lets say a single frame has 300 shades of red, and 20 of them are highly similar. ;) Compress too much, and you begin to lose the gradient like effect. And lighting will begin to look wrong.
And of course, this is basic, and only the tip of the iceberg.
Excellent explanation Kev, and yes I do a lot of music, and I like to go even higher if possible 258 I think and 320, than my question is, how do you know what you are watchig e.g. streaming with netflix, or downloading a movie from the net, another example
RUNTiME.......: 1h 43mn
SiZE..........: 4.35 GiB
VIDEO CODEC...: x264, 2pass, L4.1, 8ReFrames
FRAMERATE.....: 23.976 fps
BiTRATE.......: 4 494 Kbps
RESOLUTiON....: 1 280 x 720
AUDiO.........: English DTS 5.1 1510 Kbps
SUBTiTLES.....: Romanian,English,Bulgarian
ENCODER.......: ?
I know about the resolution, subs and audio, I can see the bitrate, the codec, framerate which I know nothing, but now that I see your so called bitrate is this what I look for as far as quality? and in this case the bitrate says 4 494, I never paid attention to any bitrate in video anyway, doing music it didn't take long to figure out the quality between 128 below or above, so is 4 494 considered a good number as far as quality, whay are good bitrates to look for in video.
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. October 2013 @ 14:13 |
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for 720P, 4,000Kb/s and up seems to be agreeable. GENERALLY, that bitrate is good. But bitrate isn't all there is to it. If X264 was instructed to perform the operation at "Extreme" speed, then the quality won't be as good as the slowest setting.
With netflix, I've not heard of a utility that measures the bitrate of what you're watching. Though I'm sure it would not be difficult to code, and probably exists.
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Senior Member
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9. October 2013 @ 14:41 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
for 720P, 4,000Kb/s and up seems to be agreeable. GENERALLY, that bitrate is good. But bitrate isn't all there is to it. If X264 was instructed to perform the operation at "Extreme" speed, then the quality won't be as good as the slowest setting.
With netflix, I've not heard of a utility that measures the bitrate of what you're watching. Though I'm sure it would not be difficult to code, and probably exists.
I didn't think there was a way to eye the bitrate while watching something on netflix but had to ask, and this is why I still don't fully get about the quality with video, now were into it's not just about the bitrate, now were getting into other things, I can see this video thing is a lot more complicated than music, but I have to start somewhere.
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Senior Member
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9. October 2013 @ 18:12 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
This is true about bitrate. I've seen 480p DVD rips that could embarrass some 1080p BluRay rips. All about bitrate, how it was encoded, and the wrapper they chose. Resolution doesn't mean much in terms of video quality if the bitrate is poor.
You're taking the bitrate too literal if you viewed the chart they show resolution and compression levels versus bandwidth required to view the full quality of the original source. If the original source is garbage guess what you'll get, garbage in, garbage out. Obviously if your a dipshit nothing you do is going to work well even if it is 1080p or even UHD quality. please use some common sense here.
And as to Netflix they do modify the original movie sometimes, letter-boxing/over-compress/cutting parts out and so on, so you won't always get a good 1080p movie, like you should.
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Senior Member
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9. October 2013 @ 18:18 |
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Originally posted by FredBun:
Originally posted by omegaman7:
for 720P, 4,000Kb/s and up seems to be agreeable. GENERALLY, that bitrate is good. But bitrate isn't all there is to it. If X264 was instructed to perform the operation at "Extreme" speed, then the quality won't be as good as the slowest setting.
With netflix, I've not heard of a utility that measures the bitrate of what you're watching. Though I'm sure it would not be difficult to code, and probably exists.
I didn't think there was a way to eye the bitrate while watching something on netflix but had to ask, and this is why I still don't fully get about the quality with video, now were into it's not just about the bitrate, now were getting into other things, I can see this video thing is a lot more complicated than music, but I have to start somewhere.
No it is exactly the same as MP3's or WMA, or OGG, or whatever compression is used. When you compress anything you typically decrease the original resolution, degrading the music/video quality and often adding noise as well. Even Loss-less, which I prefer for audio compression isn't truly loss-less. Also my TV will tell me what the bitrate of a source is and the resolution of the source.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. October 2013 @ 18:19
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10. October 2013 @ 08:33 |
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Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by FredBun:
Originally posted by omegaman7:
for 720P, 4,000Kb/s and up seems to be agreeable. GENERALLY, that bitrate is good. But bitrate isn't all there is to it. If X264 was instructed to perform the operation at "Extreme" speed, then the quality won't be as good as the slowest setting.
With netflix, I've not heard of a utility that measures the bitrate of what you're watching. Though I'm sure it would not be difficult to code, and probably exists.
I didn't think there was a way to eye the bitrate while watching something on netflix but had to ask, and this is why I still don't fully get about the quality with video, now were into it's not just about the bitrate, now were getting into other things, I can see this video thing is a lot more complicated than music, but I have to start somewhere.
No it is exactly the same as MP3's or WMA, or OGG, or whatever compression is used. When you compress anything you typically decrease the original resolution, degrading the music/video quality and often adding noise as well. Even Loss-less, which I prefer for audio compression isn't truly loss-less. Also my TV will tell me what the bitrate of a source is and the resolution of the source.
Exactly the same on music?, OK, if you say so I believe it than, you know much more on this than I, although it's the same it does seem much easier, there really is not much to figure out, I can go lossless or downgrade, I picked wma pro, I think it's suppose to be lossless but not sure, it sounded good lol, as video goes it is more complicated, as I use to get movies from the net I always picked 1080p than realized after converting them with ConvertXtoDVD that clear sharpness was downgraded, don't get me wrong it's still a nice picture but before conversion on my PC screen it can look like a 35mm snapshot sometimes, I even bought a bluray burner, tried to see if I could burn some BR movies to a DL disc the burner wont even play a BR movie, I had to download this or not to view it I just gave up.
Russ a while back sent me a copy he made one of the Batman movies he got of the net, he put it on a DL disc I must say the picture was gorgeous especially for a dark movie, he did it with imgburn, I tried it, I wanted to make a 1080p movie look like one with a DL disc, I also gave up with imgburn, it turned out to be problematic plus all my kids are deaf and getting subtitles to work properly was a nightmare, with ConvertXtoDVD which is a great piece of software it does everything pretty much automatically but after the conversion yes you do loose some quality, it's standard DVD quality which is still good and they made applying subtitles very easy which is important to me and my kids.
Yeah with all this new stuff coming out like streaming etc. I need to get on the ball, I'm way behind, I'm even considering checking out the docking station thing, putting a lot of my movies on a HDD, that's another thing I need to learn, remember way back a lot of us got into a tiff about storing our movies which is better on HDD or disc's, I held fast with disc's lol, and still do because my kids and their friends that view movies in many separate rooms, it's a lot easier to just hand them a disc than to have docking stations with computers sitting next to them if that's what's needed I think in every room, but I would like to get into it anyway, my friend who just got into his netlix thing was interested in that after I told him how you guys do it, I did explain to him if you store all your movies on HDD and it takes a crap well than lol, he said he didn't care much, he liked the idea better than having disc's laying around, he rather go with the ease of storing his movies on a HDD and the worry about loosing them was secondary, he doesn't have to worry about letting kids watching movies all over the house like myself, it's just him and his wife, so for him it's a good idea, he wants me to teach him about it all and I told him that's still out of my league, we will have to learn together.
Steve when you said (Also my TV will tell me what the bitrate of a source is and the resolution of the source) How would you do that?
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sytyguy
Senior Member
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10. October 2013 @ 10:22 |
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I use WD TV Live coupled with a docking station (no computer needed, although it can be used with a computer). WD can also be view Netflix and a whole range of apps on the Net. It also can handle a whole range of filetypes, such as VOB, and Blu-ray (M2TS) files. I recently purchased another one at Newegg for $39.99 with rebate, but that sale is no longer.
BTW, I back up my movies to another HDD, so if I lose one, I have a full backup.
Best of luck.
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10. October 2013 @ 10:26 |
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Originally posted by sytyguy:
I use WD TV Live coupled with a docking station (no computer needed, although it can be used with a computer). WD can also be view Netflix and a whole range of apps on the Net. It also can handle a whole range of filetypes, such as VOB, and Blu-ray (M2TS) files. I recently purchased another one at Newegg for $39.99 with rebate, but that sale is no longer.
BTW, I back up my movies to another HDD, so if I lose one, I have a full backup.
Best of luck.
I was always told you need a computer with your docking station, how would a doc station work without a pc?
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sytyguy
Senior Member
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10. October 2013 @ 10:29 |
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The WD TV Live has a USB port to connect the docking station to it.
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Senior Member
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10. October 2013 @ 10:34 |
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Originally posted by sytyguy:
The WD TV Live has a USB port to connect the docking station to it.
So WDTV can be used as a substitute for a PC? And if you don't have a WDTV than a PC is needed correct?
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sytyguy
Senior Member
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10. October 2013 @ 10:47 |
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Senior Member
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10. October 2013 @ 11:01 |
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Originally posted by sytyguy:
Yes, unless there is another device that can play the many formats WD TV Live is able to play.
BTW, (posted by omega7) here are the many channels WD TV Live can access, http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=570
Interesting, is there a monthly fee with this WDTV
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sytyguy
Senior Member
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10. October 2013 @ 11:08 |
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None.
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AfterDawn Addict
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10. October 2013 @ 11:10 |
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The reasoning for this is that the services themselves may/may not charge a monthly fee as appropriate, all you have here is a device to connect to them, a bit like buying a separate cable TV set top box without a subscription contract from the supplier. Things like youtube would be free, things like netflix chargeable. Smart TVs can do a lot of this sort of thing already, but if you have an older TV or want more flexibility, you need one of these devices, the WD TV is one among many, but a good particular example.
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Senior Member
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10. October 2013 @ 11:13 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
The reasoning for this is that the services themselves may/may not charge a monthly fee as appropriate, all you have here is a device to connect to them, a bit like buying a separate cable TV set top box without a subscription contract from the supplier. Things like youtube would be free, things like netflix chargeable. Smart TVs can do a lot of this sort of thing already, but if you have an older TV or want more flexibility, you need one of these devices, the WD TV is one among many, but a good particular example.
In other words if you want to get into some real viewing there will be fee's? and since your in the UK do the same rules apply here(US)
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10. October 2013 @ 11:15 |
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Yes, and yes. The content has to come from somewhere, WD don't host their own channel that I know of, so it depends which service you connect to. There will be some free ones out there, but I don't imagine you'll get much without paying. Not unless you play media sitting on your own PC over the network which of course is free to do.
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Senior Member
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10. October 2013 @ 11:29 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Yes, and yes. The content has to come from somewhere, WD don't host their own channel that I know of, so it depends which service you connect to. There will be some free ones out there, but I don't imagine you'll get much without paying. Not unless you play media sitting on your own PC over the network which of course is free to do.
Got it, I kinda figured that, clicking on stygys link and all those streaming channels for free my antennas did go up and said wait a minute, it's still an interesting possible bargain, as styguy says a docking station can be used without a PC, or another possibility here our big gun high speed Internet provider is Comcast, and you can stream a lot of content thru them for free even movies if you used a PC, I have watched a couple of programs on my PC screen just to check it out, the quality was good but do not know what it would look like on a big screen, plus the fact you can also use the PC with your docking station watching movies from the station or the PC itself, plus the fact watching a movie just loaded from the net with true 1080p which I think does not have to be converted, hoping that way the quality would shine, am I correct so far?
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10. October 2013 @ 11:41 |
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Fred, a docking station is little more than a super large flash drive. They convert hard drives to popular formats. E.g. USB 2.0/3.0 Firewire(uncommon now), and eSATA. Some even have LAN ports. I've recently been turned off of network drives though. A modded Wii, WDTV, laptop, PC, will see them as a removable hard drive. The WDTV is very intelligent. It'll play just about any file format. My blu-ray player behaves similarly. I've heard that some of the Oppo players will even play ISO format on removable storage :) Though I believe they don't design players that way anymore. You would need one of their older players.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. October 2013 @ 11:42
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10. October 2013 @ 11:50 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
Fred, a docking station is little more than a super large flash drive. They convert hard drives to popular formats. E.g. USB 2.0/3.0 Firewire(uncommon now), and eSATA. Some even have LAN ports. I've recently been turned off of network drives though. A modded Wii, WDTV, laptop, PC, will see them as a removable hard drive. The WDTV is very intelligent. It'll play just about any file format. My blu-ray player behaves similarly. I've heard that some of the Oppo players will even play ISO format on removable storage :) Though I believe they don't design players that way anymore. You would need one of their older players.
I pretty much understand whay a docking station is, this WDTV has cought my interest, plus the fact it can also be used with a docking station, I have yet to see a movie aquired from the internet without it being converted and watch if the quality is as good watching on my PC screen, if yes that would be a big plus.
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redice
Senior Member
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10. October 2013 @ 12:03 |
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Is there really a big difference between ddr2 1066 mhz and ddr2 800 mhz?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. October 2013 @ 21:49
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Senior Member
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10. October 2013 @ 12:06 |
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My TV displays input information when I hit the Info button on the remote and displays the bandwidth, MHz, and resolution as well as a couple more things, much like you can do with a PC depending on the media packages you use. Not all TV's do this so yours may not but it is a nice feature when you are watching Netflix or some other streaming program. And like Kevin stated Netflix can look great in 1080p or like you would state and I that it looks like a VHS tape only sometimes they crop & chop the video.
I've converted several BD movies to DVD and they do look fantastic but it can be extremely tasking and you can screw up doing it. But when it comes to the compression it is really the same as music. DVD's are MP2 compression and Blu-ray's are essentially MP4's, truly H.264/MKV. It becomes more complicated converting since you have to sinc the audio with the video when converting putting it simplistically.
As to your problems with BD to DVD-DL it would depend on what program(s) you are using to do this and the formats used in the movie source, it can be complicated to convert depending.
On another note there can be other issues pertain to your media used if you are using disc's. For instance I've now moved to Watershield discs like I use for CD's and DVD's but with BD's the only one's out there that I'm aware of are JVC/TY LTH'es.
The problem with LTH media can be a huge compatibility problem. They may not work with your burner and they may not work with your player. With Verbatim LTH's this is true but the new JVC/TY's it doesn't seem to be an issue as I've tested them on many different units without issues and the print out great! So that disc is my new staple for all of my ripping.
There are several streaming sites on the net as well but the quality isn't always good so with WDTV, GoogleTV, Ruko, and several others you could possibly drop your cable/satellite bill for these alternatives with a few sacrifices of course, but I would save close to $2,100 a year in TV bills. It's is temping but I would loose watching some of the sports I still like.
On another side note closer to this this thread I see the new 8 core AMD's are out so it seems like I must upgrade mu CPU to the close to 5GHz CPU's. Yeaaaaaaa!
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10. October 2013 @ 12:13 |
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Steve, careful with those TY LTH's. Their longevity may be unappealing. They scan well initially, but a year down the road, there could be a problem. It's also possible, that the burner I used, may be at fault. I had to retire it rather early -_-
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10. October 2013 @ 12:42 |
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That can be true with any media you use. I had just that happen with some Phillip's media I was buying and had to replace over a hundred disc's which I'm still in the process of doing. JVC claims these will last long but like you say it could be a problem. I've never had bad luck with TY so I have to believe I should be in good hands with these. In fact that is why I just bought the Verbatim's but found they don't measure up, not even close. I've had more problems with Verbatim then TY's, it's not even close and some people swear by Verbatim's.
I'm well aware of the LTH issues and have steered away from them until TY introduced them. As usual TY has done a bang-up job once again....
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