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vhs to vcd or svcd or dvd???
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. February 2005 @ 13:03 |
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Actually, it's usually cheaper players that will play almost everything. I got a Norcent for $39 CDN, and it does everything and then some.
You're right about the authoring. Nero will (almost) always re-encode the whole thing. A waste of time and quality.
Get your mpeg encoded to the best possible quality.
Author it in DVDLab which does NOTHING to the video, ever.
Shrink with DVD Shrink if needed to fit on dvdr.
DL stuff is just in it's infancy, and only seems to be compatible with any given player about 30% of the time. Give it a year.
If you're seriously interested in 5.1 or DTS from stereo, here's how to do it: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=124aa48840e7ee8a42755b77130abbaf&threadid=85446
You'll need Steinberg Cubase SX Or Nuendo with Plogue Bidule.
Cubase: $399.99
Nuendo: $1299.00
Bidule: $75
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. February 2005 @ 13:35
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waltersbg
Newbie
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11. February 2005 @ 13:54 |
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rebelrob and rebootjim: Thanks for all your help. I can see that I just need to go try a lot of what you've both told me.
rebelrob: I realize that my Apex is not the greatest DVD player. However, it works for everything else I do (including playing DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+RW DVDs which backed up with DVDShrink). I could go buy another one, but I've kind of taken it as a personal challenge to figure out why NeroVision authored DVDs don't work on it while DVDs authored with other programs do. It turns out that it is one very specific field in the "Navigation Packets" of the .VOB files that Nero is setting differently than the other authoring programs. This is theoretically a "reserved" field, so it shouldn't matter, but it does. The question that the Ahead engineers are supposed to be looking in to is why they are setting this field the way they are. I can't be the only person in the world with this problem.
rebootjim: I understand everything you said...almost. :-)
I dig what you've been saying about capturing directly to mpeg2. I'm not TRYING to avoid doing that, I just thought that the reality might be that there are few programs which can do it well. In that case, I might need to get the best capture program and the best encoder and run them separately (although I don't really need .AVI files for editing).
The only thing which has made me start to wonder about the idea of capturing directly to mpeg2 is the realization that doing this requires the encoder to work in real time. I've started to wonder if capturing in .AVI (perhaps only 45 minutes or so at a time so I don't fill up my harddrive) and then letting an encoder like TMPGEnc or Procoder run for hours on it almost certainly will give a better quality mpeg than an encoder which is trying to run in real time during capture. Doesn't that make sense?
In your latest response, I'm assuming that the part where you mentioned using a DIVx mpeg4 codec is for getting the best quality on your hard drive, but not necessarily for creating DVDs? As you've mentioned several times, if I want to Author to DVD, I should capture directly (or indirectly) to mpeg2, DVD-compliant, right? Maybe my confusion here is still related to the difference (if any) between the "codec" and the "encoding". In my mind there are the same thing. If I'm encoding to mpeg2, then I must be using some kind of codec to do that.
I do have a Pinnacle Studio product on one of my PC's that I will try for direct capture to mpeg2. I will also try virtual dub with the various codecs I have available. I will also try capture to .AVI and encoding with TMPGEnc or a trial version of Procoder or other high-quality encoder. I will also give the trial version of Mainconcept a try. Ultimately, I will find the one with the best quality and then experiment with usind DVDShrink to see how much I can fit on a single DVD.
Thanks again to both of you for your time and brain cells.
Mike
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. February 2005 @ 12:34 |
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Quote:
I dig what you've been saying about capturing directly to mpeg2. I'm not TRYING to avoid doing that, I just thought that the reality might be that there are few programs which can do it well. In that case, I might need to get the best capture program and the best encoder and run them separately (although I don't really need .AVI files for editing).
Two ways. Mainconcept, or Canopus, which will do both at once, cap and encode, or;
A hardware mpeg-2 encoder, such as the hauppage DVR-250.
Quote:
The only thing which has made me start to wonder about the idea of capturing directly to mpeg2 is the realization that doing this requires the encoder to work in real time. I've started to wonder if capturing in .AVI (perhaps only 45 minutes or so at a time so I don't fill up my harddrive) and then letting an encoder like TMPGEnc or Procoder run for hours on it almost certainly will give a better quality mpeg than an encoder which is trying to run in real time during capture. Doesn't that make sense?
You then end up with a whole bunch of short clips. It's doable, but a lot of work.
Quote:
In your latest response, I'm assuming that the part where you mentioned using a DIVx mpeg4 codec is for getting the best quality on your hard drive, but not necessarily for creating DVDs? As you've mentioned several times, if I want to Author to DVD, I should capture directly (or indirectly) to mpeg2, DVD-compliant, right? Maybe my confusion here is still related to the difference (if any) between the "codec" and the "encoding". In my mind there are the same thing. If I'm encoding to mpeg2, then I must be using some kind of codec to do that.
DivX mpeg4 codec is a type of AVI compression. One of the better, but still has quality loss. Raw uncompressed AVI, though extremely HUGE file size, has no quality loss. Because mpeg-2 is a different codec/compression, and is dvd standard, you reduce the compression, reduce the number of re-encodes, and maintain quality (see above re: hardware encoders).
Quote:
I do have a Pinnacle Studio product on one of my PC's that I will try for direct capture to mpeg2. I will also try virtual dub with the various codecs I have available. I will also try capture to .AVI and encoding with TMPGEnc or a trial version of Procoder or other high-quality encoder. I will also give the trial version of Mainconcept a try. Ultimately, I will find the one with the best quality and then experiment with usind DVDShrink to see how much I can fit on a single DVD.
PS is good for capture. Careful with updates. Plenty of crashes for most users, and not reliable. Your mileage may vary.
If it works for you, it's an excellent choice. If it is unstable, use VirtualDub, and a good codec, capture to AVI, edit, encode, etc...
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
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waltersbg
Newbie
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12. February 2005 @ 13:08 |
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Oh, man! I feel like such a dope!
I started on my quest last night to figure out the best combination of capture/encoder software and capture/encode resolution and bitrate.
About half way through the night, I read something that made a big light bulb light up over my head. I AM NOT "CAPTURING" ANYTHING WITH MY SETUP! I am using a Sony Digitial 8 Camcorder. It connects to my Laptop via firewire. When I do a "capture" to the laptop, I am actully just transferring the DV data from the camcorder. If it is data that is on a digital 8 tape in the camcorder, then there is absolutely no "conversion" or "capture" of any kind going on. When I plug my VCR's analog output into the Camcorder and use it to send DV to my laptop, there is an A/D inside that is capturing the analog video and audio and encoding it to DV format, but I have no control over the resolution or bitrate -- it is always in standard 720x480 DV format!
That explains a few things.
So, unless I want to buy a capture card, I can forget the whole part about what resolution and bitrate to "capture" at. I can still convert from DV to mpeg2 or something else as I transfer the data to my laptop, but if I have room I think I'd be better off just transfering it as DV and then using a dedicated encoder (I am currently trying QuEnc) to turn it into the best quality mpeg2 DVD-compliant file that I can. I can then use whatever authoring program I want that doesn't re-encode the files.
If I don't have the harddrive space to just transfer the video as DV, I'll have to look into a program that can do a GOOD job of re-encoding it to mpeg2 on the fly. Like you said, rebootjim, Windows Movie Maker and Nero Express aren't the best. I think I'll just try to do it the way I mentioned above: Keep it as DV and then put it through a dedicated encoder. Then, when I have a good quality final result from my authoring program, I can try DVDShrink if I need to.
Thanks for all your help, guys. Sorry I spent so much of your time on the whole "capture" process when, in fact, that's not what I'm doing at all. Oops.
Later,
Mike
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rebelrob
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. February 2005 @ 15:18 |
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RebootJim,
ok, lets get it going with Dvd Lab Pro, which I have. Can you steer me to a guide on how to get started, guess i can look but you seem to know the best guides out there. I want to take my capture video, mpeg1 or 2 and make a VCD, SVCD or dvd, then burn. According to what we have been talking about how Nero reencodes everything and reduces the quality is becoming evident. I think I am seeing bad quality from these vhs tapes become even worse when trying to make a disc with Nero.
thx in advance,
R
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waltersbg
Newbie
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13. February 2005 @ 17:39 |
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rebelrob:
I just noticed today that NeroVision (at least the newest rev) has an option for "smart encode" or something like that. It is on the first page of the "default video options" that is accessible from the MORE area of NeroVision (at the bottom). Smart encode is off by default. If you turn it on, it says that it will not re-encode anything that is already compatible with the desired DVD output. With this box unchecked, Nero will, as rebootjim pointed out, re-encode everything.
I am currently exploring the possibility of using a freeware tool called avisynth to make VHS captures look better by the time they are encoded to mpeg. Avisynth is a script-driven tool that has TONS of filters made for it by other users. It is possible that somewhere in all those filters is a set of operations that will make the end result of a VHS-to-DVD transfer look better. Unfortunately, it means having to capture the video is some kind of .AVI format first so that you can run avisynth on it. As I said above, mine is captured by default as the DV-AVI format. That still takes up quite a bit of HD space, but nowhere near as bad as uncompressed AVI. When you run it through avisynth, it can be sent directly to an mpeg decoder.
Good luck with your capture, encode, and authoring endeavors. I'll let you guys have your thread back for now and only report back if I find any kind of spectacular combination of things for what you're trying to do.
Later,
Mike
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rebelrob
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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14. February 2005 @ 04:34 |
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Mike,
Thx for the tip, I will check that out 2nite on Nero. hmmm I wonder If it will give me a better quality. I need to check and see if it was checked the last few times I have created a dvd or SVCD.
Hey just jump in give any updates when you want. This is not my thread, the more the merryier. I have learned more since you spoke up.
R
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pfh
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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14. February 2005 @ 05:00 |
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Quote:
Hey just jump in give any updates when you want. This is not my thread, the more the merryier. I have learned more since you spoke up.
All in all, it boils down to what you are comfortable with. Considering the quality of vhs is really not good when compared to dvd but one would certainly hope to have an end product as good as the source. One thing I've noticed is mpeg editing/authoring software has improved within the last year so that can help in your decision making. I've only messed with mpeg since I can't capture to AVI but after more research I wish I could do more experimenting to test the differnces myself. Alas, one only has so much time in a day or so much $.
One thing for sure, this video stuff can get complicated but enjoyble! Thanks to people like the staff at aD to aid in our pursuit and those willing to help. Thank you. Now on to more reading......
AMD 2500+,1gig Corsair,ATI 9800pro,NEC 2510 DVDr/w,TDK CDRW,ConvertX M402U,Womble,DVDLab,GoCap,Intervideo OEM junk,DVDD,DVDShrink,V-Dub,120 gigs HD space(several partitions)WinXP Home, JVC S9911U vcr, Sima Color Corrector Pro.
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AfterDawn Addict
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14. February 2005 @ 06:44 |
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waltersbg. What can I say? <grin>
Your process of capturing VHS through the Sony is ideal! It's the same as using a dedicated hardware encoder, you just get a DV file instead of mpeg-2, but NO loss in quality.
From DV to mpeg-2 for dvd, there's NOTHING better than Canopus Procoder. QuEnc does work, and there are a couple of good GUI's for it. It's just tediously slow, but hey, it's free.
rebelrob. I have written a few guides on dvdlab (and pro).
From getting started, to creating switched menus, using D-FX, motion menus, special text effects, and more. Read em here: http://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?tools=&madeby=reboot&formatconversionselect=&howtoselect=%3B&orderby=Date&listall=1&hits=25&archive=0&listallusers=&search=Search+or+List+Guides
DVDLab will only author DVD, not (S)VCD. Nerovision Express 3 (using "smart encode") is good for (S)VCD.
Note: Version 2 does NOT have smart encode (that I know of), and is the source of MANY headaches.
pfh. Somewhere back in this thread, I made some recommendations for capture aspect ratio/size.
As the source is VHS, the best one can hope for is to maintain original quality. As waltersbg is doing, VHS to CAM to DV, then encode, the camcorder is doing the encoding (hardware) which is miles better than a software driven capture card.
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
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pfh
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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14. February 2005 @ 07:52 |
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Reboot's are awsome guides on DVD LAB I might add.
AMD 2500+,1gig Corsair,ATI 9800pro,NEC 2510 DVDr/w,TDK CDRW,ConvertX M402U,Womble,DVDLab,GoCap,Intervideo OEM junk,DVDD,DVDShrink,V-Dub,120 gigs HD space(several partitions)WinXP Home, JVC S9911U vcr, Sima Color Corrector Pro.
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