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TMPGenc 3.0 XPress frame rate problem with XviD source
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JNavas
Newbie
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14. May 2005 @ 06:23 |
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Note: This report pertains to TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress, not TMPGEnc or TMPGEnc Plus
When attempting to encode 23.976 fps XviD sources (as verified by GSpot 2.21) into DVD-compatible MPEG2, TMPGenc 3.0 XPress incorrectly detects the source frame rate as 30 fps, resulting in jerky MPEG2 output.
These XviD sources play perfectly in a variety of players, and encode properly in NeroVision Express 3.
There appears to be no way to override the incorrectly detected source frame rate in TMPGenc 3.0 XPress, and there doesn't appear to be any reasonable work-around.
This problem exists in version 3.0.4.24 (original release) and version 3.1.5.82 (latest version as of this writing) of TMPGenc 3.0 XPress.
Codecs: XviD-1.0.3-20122004 _Final Release_
XviD-1.1.0-Beta2-04042005 _Beta Release_
Platform: Windows XP SP2 on a 2 GHz Mobile Pentium 4
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aldaco12
AfterDawn Addict
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16. May 2005 @ 01:30 |
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I have seen then TMPGEnc 2.5 Plus puts AVI's framerate at 30 by definition (MPEGs and .D2V are correct, you can see it by opening the 'select range' screen).
Maybe it happens because the framerate is just given by the kind of output mpeg you're gonna make (PAL, NTSC, NTSC Film).
You wrote 'resulting in jerky MPEG2 output'. Why? What is the problem of your output? A/V sync or what?
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JNavas
Newbie
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16. May 2005 @ 02:43 |
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Quote:
I have seen then TMPGEnc 2.5 Plus puts AVI's framerate at 30 by definition (MPEGs and .D2V are correct, you can see it by opening the 'select range' screen).
TMPGEnc 2.5 Plus gets the correct frame rate with these same XviD AVI files.
Quote:
Maybe it happens because the framerate is just given by the kind of output mpeg you're gonna make (PAL, NTSC, NTSC Film).
No, the incorrect frame rate is displayed before any output format is selected.
Quote:
You wrote 'resulting in jerky MPEG2 output'. Why? What is the problem of your output? A/V sync or what?
The problem is that motion is jerky rather than smooth, particularly obvious in slow pans. A/V sync is correct.
TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress does get the correct source frame rate when the XviD AVI file is frameserved from VirtualDub, and can preview the frameserved file, but refuses to encode it. Others have reported that same problem with frameserving in TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress, and have also reported that Pegasys won't support frameserving. So that seems to be a dead end.
Another suggested work-around is to: create a Project with the XviD AVI as input in TMPGEnc Plus 2.524 (which has a different Project File format from prior versions) and Save the Project File; enable TMPGEnc Project File Reader 2.524 in TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress (Preferences -> Input plug-in settings); and then Add the Project File as a source (not Open as a Project) in TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress. That does get the source frame rate correct, but results in other weirdness (e.g., incorrect pixel format) that results in incorrect output (e.g., wrong frame size) with no audio. So that appears to be another dead end.
Yet another sugggested work-around is to use the 3ivx codec instead of the XviD codec. That does indeed solve the problem of incorrect source frame rate, and Video Mode is also corrected (3:2 pulldown playback), but the resulting MPEG2 video from TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress is still jerky. (Output from NeroVision Express 3 is much smoother.) Thus TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress apparently has a compatibility problem with the XviD codec (probably a TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress problem given that other applications see the correct source frame rate), and doesn't do a terribly good job of frame rate conversion in any event (as reported by others).
UPDATE:
This problem can be solved with AviSynth ( http://www.avisynth.org/ )! Use AviSynth (2.5.5) to frameserve the XviD source into TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress, and TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress then does get the correct source frame rate and WILL then properly encode DVD-compliant MPEG2 and AC-3 audio output that will be smooth instead of jerky!
I've also found that it can be helpful in terms of maintaining audio sync to first decompress the audio with the audio "decompress" utility included with AVI2VCD ( http://home.cogeco.ca/~avi2vcd/mpeg_a.htm#avi2vcd ).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. August 2005 @ 08:37
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jessiec
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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9. August 2005 @ 07:21 |
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JNavas,
I don't have a solution for you - but faced with vaguely similar predicament thought that I might describe it and see if you have any suggestions?
I too have TMPGEnc Express 3.0 (latest version as I downloaded it from their website within last week!) and am dealing with it getting the frame rate of my footage wrong. However, in my case the problem does not originate with TMPGEnc Express 3.0: a vast array of other software reads the frame rate wrong too...
The footage is 25p. However, the camera outputs it at 50p. That's right - 50p, not 50i. The format is MPEG2 TS, which TMPGEnc 3.0 Express does accept. The cam I'm using is the JVC GR-PD1.
The cam comes with a very basic NLE and I have cut a low budget feature using that NLE - now I wanna encode!
I can create what the cam's NLE calls a 'convert stream' - this will convert the MPEG2 TS into MPEG 2 PS - it corrects the frame rate problem and then I can feed it into TMPGEnc no probs.
Slight loss of quality, though, and considering TMPGEnc finally accepts MPEG 2 TS it seems a shame not to be able to feed it direct, i.e. to simply order TMPGEnc that the frame rate is really 25p.
Footage plays twice as fast, you see.
Just thought you might have some thoughts. When I try to re-set frame rate in the output it doesn't seem to affect the prob.
Regards,
Jessie
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. August 2005 @ 07:23
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JNavas
Newbie
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9. August 2005 @ 08:39 |
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Quote:
JNavas,
I don't have a solution for you - but faced with vaguely similar predicament thought that I might describe it and see if you have any suggestions?
See the UPDATE I added to my last post.
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cactus20
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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30. August 2005 @ 03:01 |
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I too have experienced problems with the motion in TMPGEnc xpress
The XviD codec has a problem with it, As when i rip a dvd into DivX and load in to tmpg it gets it right, No jerky movement.
Some encoders seem to get it right while others don't
Procoder 2 gets it right as do a few others
The one click programs are a waste of time
Will try av synth.
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JNavas
Newbie
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18. September 2005 @ 07:31 |
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Quote:
I don't understand how to use AviSynth to frameserve the XviD source into TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress. Could you please give me a step by step?
Suppose your source video file is "XVIDvideo.avi":
1. If not already installed, install AviSynth.
2. Create a text file "XVIDvideo.avs" with the following contents:
AviSource("XVIDvideo.avi")
3. Drag and drop this text file in a new Project in TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress.
4. Verify settings.
5. Encode.
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johntee50
Newbie
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4. October 2005 @ 12:15 |
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I've had the same problem. I live in England and use PAL framerates i.e. 25fps. When I input a 25fps avi into TMPGenc Express it sees it as 30 fps. I found that if I install the Matrosca pack, this corrects the problem, however, the problem occurs again if I install a version of Power DVD later than 5. If I uninstall the later version of Power DVD and reinstall version 5 the problem is corrected and TMPGenc sees the correct framerate.
Hope this is of help to you all.
Regards, johntee50.
EDIT
I forgot to say that this works with Xvids and DivX.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. October 2005 @ 12:18
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jessiec
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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5. October 2005 @ 00:29 |
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Just to let you know I solved this myself with Procoder Express. It had no problem with the 50fps of the PD1 camera. I just reset it to 25 and it worked - beautiful output quality.
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JNavas
Newbie
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5. October 2005 @ 06:39 |
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Quote:
Just to let you know I solved this myself with Procoder Express. It had no problem with the 50fps of the PD1 camera. I just reset it to 25 and it worked - beautiful output quality.
But no integrated AC3 audio encoding with Procoder Express, right? The reason to use TMPGenc 3.0 XPress with the AC3 plugin is that it's a one-step encoding solution for DVD-compliant MPEG2.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. October 2005 @ 06:39
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johntee50
Newbie
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24. October 2005 @ 06:57 |
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Finaly found the problem with framerate reading in TMPGEnc Express. It's caused by the DivX codec. When it instals, it also instals a GENERIC mpeg4 codec. This is the problem. When you instal DivX, DE-select the generic codec and the framerate reading of XviD avi's is then correct.
Regards, Johntee50.
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JNavas
Newbie
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24. October 2005 @ 08:43 |
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Quote:
Johntee50 writes:
Finaly found the problem with framerate reading in TMPGEnc Express. It's caused by the DivX codec. When it instals, it also instals a GENERIC mpeg4 codec. This is the problem. When you instal DivX, DE-select the generic codec and the framerate reading of XviD avi's is then correct.
That's useful info (thanks!), but not the whole problem: I'm seeing the problem on AVIs encoded with the XviD video codec (4CC) and no DivX codec installed, only XviD (which is what this thread is about). I'll do some additional investigation and report back.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. October 2005 @ 08:44
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johntee50
Newbie
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24. October 2005 @ 08:57 |
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When you installed Xvid, did you select the option to decode all 4cc avi's ? I didn't, and I don't have a problem with any Xvid. I also have installed the DivX 512 codec. You also need to instal the Matrosca Pack, I use version 1.0.2 with a standard instal. I think it's more important to instal this than the DivX codec Those are the only one's I have installed ( apart from the standard Windows codecs that install with Media player 10 ).
Regards, johntee50.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. October 2005 @ 09:06
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JNavas
Newbie
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24. October 2005 @ 10:26 |
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Quote:
johntee50 writes:
When you installed Xvid, did you select the option to decode all 4cc avi's ? I didn't, and I don't have a problem with any Xvid. I also have installed the DivX 512 codec. You also need to instal the Matrosca Pack, I use version 1.0.2 with a standard instal. I think it's more important to instal this than the DivX codec Those are the only one's I have installed ( apart from the standard Windows codecs that install with Media player 10 ).
I uninstalled XviD, and then installed and tested all readily available XviD binaries, with and without the additional decoding option, and experienced the TMPGenc 3.0 XPress frame rate problem (30 fps on NTSC 23.97 fps source) on my test XviD AVI in all cases.
I do not have the DivX 512 codec installed, since I don't need it.
I likewise do not have the Matroska Pack [correct spelling] installed, since I don't need it, and since codec packs can cause other serious problems. BTW, Matroska Pack Full is now up to v1.1.2.
It's best to install only the codecs you actually need.
The apparent difference between you and me is that the Matroska Pack uses a different codec for XviD decoding, the ffdshow decoder Filter, whereas I use the official XviD codec. (Part of the reason I use the official XviD codec is that it produces results superior to ffdshow.) I'll do some testing with ffdshow.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. October 2005 @ 10:40
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johntee50
Newbie
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24. October 2005 @ 11:01 |
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Done a few tests with and without the Matroska ( correct spelling ) pack, and that is certainly the reason I see the correct frame rates. As far as quality goes, I can't see any improvement with or without the matrosca ( Incorrect spelling ) pack. As to the version, this one works for me so I'll stick with it.
Regards, johntee50.
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JNavas
Newbie
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25. October 2005 @ 04:40 |
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Quote:
johntee50 writes:
Done a few tests with and without the Matroska ( correct spelling ) pack, and that is certainly the reason I see the correct frame rates. As far as quality goes, I can't see any improvement with or without the matrosca ( Incorrect spelling ) pack. As to the version, this one works for me so I'll stick with it.
See "[Matroska-devel] Matroska Pack 1.0.2 Doesn't Support XviD 1.0.1 Properly" http://lists.matroska.org/pipermail/matroska-devel/2004-July/0018...
That issue aside, Matroska Pack MPEG4 v1.0.2 does indeed solve the TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress frame rate problem. It does so by installing ffdshow 05/23/2003, which is then used as the XviD codec. (Unlike v1.0.2, Matroska Pack v1.1.2 doesn't work -- it doesn't install an XviD codec.)
FFDShow MPEG-4 Video Decoder 2005-10-18 doesn't work, because it doesn't install a VFW XviD codec, only DirectShow.
My investigation continues...
p.s. Matroska Pack doesn't uninstall cleanly, a common problem with codec packs, one of the reasons I don't use them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. October 2005 @ 06:09
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cactus20
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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25. October 2005 @ 07:16 |
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Thanks guys i have tried all of the above
But nothing seems to work properly
I run Dr DivX as a capture source 1.0.4 using DivX 6.0 codec
I use procoder if the XviD is good qaulity
If not i use dr. DivX to to convert it as there is no lose in qaulity and TMPGEnc xpress loads it fine, Only takes a couple of hours
Sick of all the babble shit
If some one has a solution post it THANKS J.B
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JNavas
Newbie
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25. October 2005 @ 09:17 |
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Quote:
J.B writes:
Thanks guys i have tried all of the above
But nothing seems to work properly
I run Dr DivX as a capture source 1.0.4 using DivX 6.0 codec
I use procoder if the XviD is good qaulity
If not i use dr. DivX to to convert it as there is no lose in qaulity and TMPGEnc xpress loads it fine, Only takes a couple of hours
Sick of all the babble shit
If some one has a solution post it THANKS J.B
DivX and XviD are different!
For XviD sources, one of the two work-arounds (AviSynth or Matroska Pack MPEG4 v1.0.2) in this thread should work.
For DivX sources, you'll have to do your own experimenting, using the information in this thread as a guide.
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JNavas
Newbie
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19. November 2005 @ 14:38 |
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I've finally hit on a work-around with AviSynth frameserving into TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress for correct frame rate that seems to work very well! Here's a sample AviSynth script that illustrates the method:
Quote:
# source XviD AVI file
file = "SampleXviD.avi"
# open AVI video-only to get correct frame rate
AVISource(file, audio = false)
# save correct frame rate for DirectShowSource
frate = Framerate()
# reopen in DirectShow for better audio compatibility
DirectShowSource(file, fps = frate)
I also have the following (unrelated to the work-around) in my scripts:
Quote:
Normalize(0.98)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. November 2005 @ 14:40
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cactus20
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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25. December 2005 @ 19:36 |
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Well AVISynth fixed the frame rate problem i was having with tmpgxpress, Now 25fps comes out at 25fps and not 29 or 30
All i had to type was avisource and the path to the file
Load it in to Tmpgxprees and Bingo correct frame rate
No more messing around with codecs and codec packs
Thanhs for the advice AVISyth GOOD STUFF!!
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