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Best CD-R Media? Answers possible?
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satorn
Newbie
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23. March 2002 @ 08:56 |
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I wonder if it's possible to know which brands of CD-R disks are the best, from the point of view of saving valuable data for a long time (say, around 5 years) in a tropical (hot and humid) climate.
Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
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fallen_br
Senior Member
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23. March 2002 @ 11:11 |
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Well, in a hot and humid climate, you should be extra-careful with storage, and should generally stay away from cheap Cyanine disks, those tend to get fungi on them. Some more well-built cyanine disks are OK, though.
There's no such thing as a "Best" CDR, it all depends on your writer and the media it likes.
But, generally, you can't go wrong with:
Cheaper but still reliable, should still last MUCH more than just 5 years if well stored/kept away from scratches (From best to least best IMO)
- Prodisc Technology
- SKC Co.
- Acer Media
- Gigastorage Co. (Cyanine 2 great, Phtalo excellent)
- Ritek Co. (Cyanine good, Phthalo excellent)
- Ricoh Company (Either by Ritek with their ATIP or by themselves)
- Moser Baer India / MultiMedia Masters & Machinery Made in India (Silvers/Golds only)
Expensive but great (I don't buy those anymore, but their quality is enormous):
- Kodak Japan (Aren't manufactured but still in market)
- Mitsui Toatsu
- Taiyo Yuden (Cyanine but still very good)
Brands that are a big No-no in my conception:(YMMV)
- Digital Storage Technology (Unless you have a VERY good burner, just forget about those, they're REALLY unstable here because of the Long Strategy ATIP on a Short Strategy disc)
- Sony Corp. (Gave me really bad performance, wouldn't trust them to last even 5 months)
- CMC Magnetics Cyanine (Phtalocyanine are said to be OK, but I never tested)
- MMM&M Cyanine or "cheap-looking" (Some MMM&M ATIP discs are REAL bad, those can be found by looking at the edges, you'll see that the foil is uneven, like, looking a bit like it was chewed...)
In which country are you? It might help to see what available brands carry those manufacturers' discs in them.
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cd-rw.org
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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23. March 2002 @ 12:30 |
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It's hard to determine this exactly, since the writer is one more variable to the equation.
My list pretty much follows Fallen's opinion. This a roundup of what I have recently used (except Mitsui, which is not available here)
As dicussed before 4M (Multimedia Masters & Machinery) makes CD-R plants that many producers use. Discs have 4M ATIP.
Top class:
-Kodak
-Mitsui
-Ritek (Traxdata and many others)
-Ricoh (sold as HP)
-T.Y (Some TDKs and many others)
At least those I have found very reliable.
Also good in most cases. I consider MPO and Prodisc very good, but I need more data & experiences:
-4M (Cheaper Verbatims, some MMOREs)
-MPO (Roline)
-Prodisc (Smartbuy)
-Vivastar
These can be troublesome:
-CMC Magnetics (Imation, many others too)
-Maxell (Maxell brand is now turning to RITEK)
-TDK Corp (made by TDK's are sometimes problematic. Also uses RITEK and T.Y.)
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satorn
Newbie
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24. March 2002 @ 07:33 |
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Right now, here in Thailand, Kodak Gold Ultima CDRs are widely available on spindles (50s, 100s, -- but they'll sell you any nimber from 1 to, I guess, hundreds. In 50s, they work out at arounf US$0.30 each. These Kodaks come unlabelled (as to speed), but I've found them perfect at 4X and may try faster. As long as these Kodak Gold Ultimas are around, I'll get as many as I can.
Mitsui Gold are widely available in Australia (I got some there 2 years ago), and are the best CDRs I've ever used -- long lasting (even in difficult climate), no errors. But they're not available in Thailand.
What we have here are hundreds of colourful 'brands' of CDR, with made-up names. I guess they're coming in from Southern China.
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cd-rw.org
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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24. March 2002 @ 08:21 |
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It would be nice if you could post some CD-R ATIPs and brand info (open 1 thread per brand), so others could benefit from that info too.
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Pio2001
Moderator
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24. March 2002 @ 15:41 |
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I had problems with 2-4 years old Mitsui Media Golden Dye
ATIP: 97m 27s 55f
Disc Manufacturer: Mitsui Toatsu Chemicals, Inc.
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 650.85MB (74m 05s 10f / LBA: 333235)
(though not with all, nor with Mitsui SG, and I never tried Mitsui gold, nor other Mitsuis).
I may have been CD written with my dying burner, but one of them at least isn't : problems occur in one spot only, that is visible on the CD as a spot a bit darker, with little dots in circle.
CD-RW.org got the same problem, if I remember well.
Older Mitsuis SG (5 years old, same ATIP) don't have this problem, but I've got very few of them, so I can't tell.
Pio2001
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fallen_br
Senior Member
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24. March 2002 @ 16:37 |
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How do I physically differentiate between Mitsui SG and Mitsui Golden Dye?
My Mitsui discs say simply "Mitsui CD-R" and "Up to 24x" on the box.
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cd-rw.org
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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24. March 2002 @ 20:13 |
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Pio,
Yes, I have seen a one old Hewlett-Packard CD-R (by Mitsui) die in way that very much resembles what you describe. A darker area, about a size of a small fingerprint, appeared on the disc.
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satorn
Newbie
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25. March 2002 @ 08:19 |
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"It would be nice if you could post some CD-R ATIPs and brand info (open 1 thread per brand), so others could benefit from that info too."
OK, cd-rw.org, I'll do that. Because of limited time online (I live in a forest monastery in Thailand), it will be about 24 hours before I can get back.
(By the way, I benefitted a lot from the 'old' cd-rw.org forums, so it's good to see (some of) it back.)
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cd-rw.org
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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25. March 2002 @ 08:48 |
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Thanks Satorn.
It's back. Actually, it was never gone, but will be rebuilt here to a wider audience. Many of the good old folks are here with us.
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fallen_br
Senior Member
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25. March 2002 @ 10:45 |
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This might not be perfectly on topic, but I guess it's not off either.
You speak of mitsuis. I remember they being said as being Made in Japan, is this true?
Every Mitsui I've ever seen was Made in Taiwan. Any thoughts on this? Higher/lower/same quality or am I just mistaken about there being japan-made ones too?
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Pio2001
Moderator
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25. March 2002 @ 11:30 |
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BillyG
Junior Member
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5. April 2002 @ 13:39 |
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Top of the Line:
Fuji or Sony by Taiyo Yuden
Mitsui
Kodak Gold
Ricoh (I think they stopped making CD-R's but I still see them at many outlet computer stores - sometimes they are only 8X & 12X but still very good CD-R's)
KAO (are they still in business?)
TDK Certified Plus or Reflex (made in the USA or Japan - dark blue ink)
Good
Verbatim DataLife Plus (made in Singapore or Taiwan by Mitsubishi - I have used tons of these)
TDK Certified Plus (light blue ink) IBM, and Memorex (gold ink) made by Ritek
Digital Research, Dysan, & Memorex made by Prodisc
Prime Peripherals and Memorex made by Postech
Boarderline:
Imation, Memorex and Verbatim ValueLife made by CMC Magnetics with yellow Phtalocyanine Ink - I bought them accidently, or got them through blank CD-R trades but they have burned OK and worked fine. Only time will tell if they'll hold up.
Lousy:
Verbatim ValueLife 24X (a freind who bought a 50 pack at Sam's Club has had a lot of problems burning them with his HP 12X burner. I don't know who makes them - they say made in Israel on the packaging - is this MMMM?)
GQ - Great Quality made by Lead Data (these are CRAP! - Fry's Electronics sells them really cheap - so stay far away from them!)
Hotan, Kypermedia, Hi-Val, Imation - or any CMC Magnetics with blue ink (I never could get any of them to burn past 8X - I think they stopped making them)
Gigastorage
Princo
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. April 2002 @ 00:07
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fallen_br
Senior Member
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6. April 2002 @ 07:06 |
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Pio2001: So could those made in Taiwan Mitsui discs I have be the famed discs that Prodisc's supposed to make for Mitsui?
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satorn
Newbie
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6. April 2002 @ 11:27 |
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These are the Mitsui Gold I have, bought in Melbourne 2 years ago:
Mitsui Gold
ATIP: 97m 27s 55f
Disc Manufacturer: Mitsui Toatsu Chemicals, Inc.
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 650.85MB (74m 05s 10f / LBA: 333235)
They have 'Made in Japan' on the label on the disks upper side.
I'll be getting a shipment of new Mitsui Gold disks from Melbourne in a few weeks (I live in a forest monastery in Thailand). These are newer than those I got in 2000, of course, and are rated at 8X (the ones I have (almost all gone) are un-speed-rated or rated at 4X)>
Since I need as close as possible to 'archive grade' CDRs, and live ina difficult climate, I appreciate these Mitsui Golds a lot -- I've found them better than anything else, including Kodak Gold Ultima, for accuracy (incl. burning CDs with tens of thousands of small files) and longevity.
I'd be interested in Mitsui's 'professional' CDRs (Ultra 2, SG Ultra), but have never seen them.
I know that friends working professionally with CDRs in 1995-7 used only Mitsui Golds, and this involved their livlihood.
By the way, I'm sorry not to have posted about my Kodaks, TDKs, verbatims, etc -- an emergency translation and proof-reading has come up, and will take a couple of weeks to get done: it really is an emergency, though a non-profit one (the worst kind!).
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Pio2001
Moderator
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6. April 2002 @ 11:53 |
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fallen_br
Senior Member
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6. April 2002 @ 12:22 |
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Pio2001:
The older batch I have looks like the first one on:
http://www.mitsuicdr.com/mt_products/default.htm
The newer, 24x certified ones have a totally different cover not listed on the Mitsui (Both global and european) or CDMediaWorld site as of yet, but the disc looks exactly the same as it did before. Both of them say Made in Taiwan in the back. The older ones seem to be Golden Dyes, since on the inlay it says, in a small logo on the upper-left corner "Mitsui Gold GD-74" even though they're silver discs.
The newer ones say simply "Mitsui CD-R".
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Pio2001
Moderator
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6. April 2002 @ 15:10 |
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Ack ! They're older than DOS ! When I burned my first CDRs in 1997, they were already replaced with Mitsui SG. Mitsui Media Golden Dye came around 1999, I think, and now, I have just bought a box of the new 24 x advanced media golden dye.
BTW, that site is out of date, the Mitsui website is http://www.mitsuimedia.fr/public/us/index.html
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. April 2002 @ 15:11
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fallen_br
Senior Member
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6. April 2002 @ 15:42 |
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Yeah, I know that site is outdated, but it's the one with the picture of the older CD I have, plus, it's the URL given on my CDs, even on the 24x...
My 24x don't say anything about golden dye or SG or anything else, which I find really weird.
They do say "Golden surface for longer life".
The 24x's back paper is written in both portuguese and spanish.
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jase
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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7. April 2002 @ 13:13 |
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The new DST discs are fine in my experience, they no longer have the cyanine ATIP on a phthalo disc :)
BTW the DST media is fine (even the older stuff) as long as you have a decent writer that ignores the ATIP. If you have a piece of crap like Yamaha or Ricoh forget it. LiteOn, Plextor and TEAC owners will be fine with this media.
Here's my list...
Generally good to very good:
Prodisc
Ritek (24x+)
Acer
Ricoh
TY
Mitsui
Kodak
Decent:
Ritek (16x and below; cyanine and "type G" phthalocyanine).
Princo
Postech
Gigastorage 24x
DST
MBI
CMC (although the blue type and some of the phalocyanine is in the lousy category)
Verbatim blue and 24x Azo
Fornet phthalocyanine
Lousy:
Lead-Data
CMC blue
Fornet blue
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. April 2002 @ 13:14
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fallen_br
Senior Member
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11. April 2002 @ 12:57 |
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Jase: Oh, sorry, I had not seen your mention of SKC. Prodisc Cyanine discs are not as widely available as the Phthalo ones, but are still in volume production and available for VERY cheap prices.
Everyone: I was talking to a dealer at a CD-R shop (You know, the kind of shop that only sells CDR/W/DVD-R/RW/+R/+RW media and writers)and he was saying that those discs with Digital Storage Technology ATIPs that were Phtalo discs but with Cyanine ATIPs (That gave me problems earlier) were actually made by a taiwanese manufacturer called Vanguard and not DST themselves, using DST stampers. Then I took a look at a disc really made by DST and it looks totally different, serial number-scheme and everything else.
Edit: By the way, I got some new Mitsui's. Made in Taiwan, same ATIP, with the oldest box but with a 24x logo on the corner. Really weird.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. April 2002 @ 13:16
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jase
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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11. April 2002 @ 16:07 |
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Interesting about DST. I have some similar ones and they are *definitely* manufactured by DST though. They are branded with DST's own-brand (D-Vision), were sold as being manufactured by DST with the logo on the website and the company selling them also did some 24x DST media which is just the same except where the 16x, bad-ATIP media said "SG-80" on the inner rim these 24x media say "UG-80".
I have had Vanguard before though, on some "Waitec" discs. Very poor quality. Have lasted well but even my TEAC 8x wasn't able to write to them all that well, which is a sure sign something is up!!
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fallen_br
Senior Member
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11. April 2002 @ 16:50 |
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Jase: My Vanguards with DST ATIP have DM-**** (Random number) on the center ring. Odd thing on them is that the dye looks inconsistent (different color "splotches" all around), as does the top cover (on different places) which doesn't happen with the DST by DST discs I got, which are just like those 24x you have. Plus, the center ring looks kind of different on those, the place between the inner ring and the media is shinier on the DST 24x ones and the media looks really well done and resistant. Surely a keeper.
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jase
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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11. April 2002 @ 17:20 |
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Yeah, I've just had a look at my Vanguards and they have a DM-*** on them as well....
Seems that Vanguard are a company to avoid. It's impacting on DST's reputation though, like you I have found their media to be well-made and burns well. So it's a pity that other companies are using their stamping facilities.
My Cyberdrive 32x rates them at 28x, my Artec 20x thinks they're 20x compatible, and none of my writers have made a bad go of them, although some have defaulted to a slower speed as they are slightly obscure. But I agree that they are fine media for the (very low) price they're available at, and I'd recommend them without hesitation.
One thing I'd just like to point out is that with my list above, where I say decent I mean good, not average, above average but just not quite as good as the best. I don't know how exactly you can define a disc as average -- it's either good or bad ;) Just to clarify hehe
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. April 2002 @ 17:35
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Pio2001
Moderator
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12. April 2002 @ 03:07 |
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FallenBR, what ATIP are your Mitsuis ?
And what color are they ? Silver Mitsuis are the lighter CDRs I've ever seen, lighter than Kodak (gold) or Ricoh, or MMMM.
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