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8x vs 4x Burning
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slnixon
Junior Member
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15. July 2005 @ 06:01 |
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First off, I just want to thank everyone on AD who help me out--directly and indirectly. All You guys (and gals!) are great! My ? is: Is 8x media better than 4x rated media regardless if You burn at 4x? I have read and have found by experience that 4x produces quite better results. However, I have bought 8x media for over a year now. I am considering going with 4x media since that is what most of my burns are gonna be from now on. But is 8x rated media actually manufactured better than 4x??
Thanx
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. July 2005 @ 07:15 |
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4x media is getting a little harder to find. I've tried a lot of different media varying from verbatim,taiyo yuden,maxell,sony,teon,phillips,and staples brand. Quality differences can vary considerably when switching to different format/spindle-pack size/and even identical spindles. I noticed the 4x media with most of those brands I listed was a lot harder figuring out which ones were the better quality.Genuine taiyo yuden's are rated among the best among most of us.Cmags are what you want to stay away from,but their are worse manufacturers than that.Notice cmagnetics make some of the media for phillips/teon/staples/verbatim/and a few maxells in the 4x speed.
8x media is gradually replacing the 4x. I've burned many 8x of verbatim data life plus/maxell/teon/and sony in the plus format. All these 8x media I burned in my benq's outperformed their 4x speeds,but the 8x cmag teons not so lucky. Better manufacturers are the reason.Also the sony 1x-8x dash format are very good.
The biggest drawback to the newer 8x media, some of these 16x burners will burn these at 12x and 16x. Myself and a majority of others still stick with burning this 8x media at 4x. Less errors/Better playability/ and less coasters.
Some of the 8x media to watch out for: Teon/TDK/and Staples brand in the plus format.Cmags make some or even majority of them. I don't dabble much in the dash format,except for a few spindles of sony -1x-8x.
I had a lot more coasters and more trouble playing my backups on the 4x media,according to my benq's and cyberhome recorder.
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!! |
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slnixon
Junior Member
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15. July 2005 @ 11:21 |
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I see. Cheap crap media = Cheap crap backups Also, I have noticed on the forums of people having data corruption or losing what they recorded over time because of poor media quality. I'm guessing this is a dye-related issue in the manufacturing process. Thx for the reply!
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Dissone
Junior Member
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15. July 2005 @ 13:35 |
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Hello all,
Above saugmon writes that he burns 8x media at 4x. I have used philips 8x media forever and it allows burning from 2-8x but I've recently purchased Sony DVD+R 8x media and it will not allow anything lower than 6x burning. My question is whether I am doing something wrong or if there is media such as these Sony disks that will not support slow buning. Also they will not allow for Nero Recode 2 to do an Advanced analysis before burning. So far everything that I've burned with these disks has had skips and freezes. If I can force slow burning and you could tell me how I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks
Dissones4u ;) |
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slnixon
Junior Member
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15. July 2005 @ 13:55 |
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Dissone,
Have You tried burning with DVD Decrypter? I use this as well as Nero. Also double check Your firmware version. I have had to change mine to allow for booktype setting for DVD+R discs.
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Dissone
Junior Member
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15. July 2005 @ 23:15 |
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slnixon,
I have tried burning with decrypter and it still foces the burning process at either 6x or 8x where as I was burning at 2.4x with Nero. The one difference now is that with shrink and decrypter I must compress to the hard drive rather then burn at once (on the fly with a temp image buffer) as with Nero. It takes longer and I haven't tried to play the movie yet but it may make up for the problem as stated in my first post which is that my dvd reader is max 8x and to burn at 8x made the buffer run empty. In short though Decryter would not force a slower burn; apparently these disks won't allow it?
Dissones4u ;)
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akyllonen
Member
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17. July 2005 @ 10:13 |
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It's a problem on your end-NOT the media. I use SONY 8x +R's pretty much exclusively now and have no problem burning at 4x (which I ALWAYS burn at). Here is something to try....
1)W/DVD Decrypter rip the DVD to the hard drive then...
2)W/Shrink on output change to save as ISO file. then...
3) Find the ISO file on your hard drive and right click and choose Burn With DVD Decrypter.
Maybe that will allow you to change your burn speed.
2.4 Celeron;512k ram; 80gig HD; 60gig HD; Windows XP(SP1).
Sony DRU-710A (BYX4)
DVD Shrink/DVD Decrypter.
TYG02;YUDEN002;MCC blanks.
Favorite Media: Sony 8x+R(MADE IN JAPAN)
Laptop: 1.4 Ghz;256k ram; 40 gig HD;Windows XP
NEC ND-6650A Burner
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Dissone
Junior Member
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17. July 2005 @ 11:22 |
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akyllonen,
I must disagree, the Nero info tool, extended information says that this media will only support 6x-8x. The method that you have presented is exactly what I did as stated in the last post it still failed to burn at the requested speed. It did allow a request for 2.4x burn but the log file indicated that the actual burn speed was 6x and not 2.4x. I have burned many hundreds of disks now and there is something about this media, the philips media will burn at 2.4x but when I change to the Sony....BAM I'm back at 6x-8x as burn speed options. I have been able to burn good disks at 6x by ripping to the HD first but this takes extra time. I prefer to burn with Nero "Burn at once" option as it saves the ripping time and multiple program setups. I will try to locate any pertinent manufacturer data and post it but I'm not sure how to find it; the Nero info tool only gave some basic info. I'm certain that the problem is the media and there may not be a way to force slow burning.
PS I just installed DVDIfoPro and this is what I got:
Media Information
Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO
Media code/Manufacturer ID SONY D11
Media Product Revision Number 00h
Format Capacity Blank Disc
Free Blocks 405405696
Free Capacity 4.38GB(4.70G)
Book Type DVD+R
Media Type DVD+R
Manufacturer Rated Speed 8.0x 11080KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 11080KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 6.0x 8310KBps
Data area starting sector 30000h
Linear Density 0.267um/bit
Track Density 0.74um/track
Number of Layers 1
Complete Media Code
00000000 08 02 00 00 A1 0F 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 26 05 3F .............&.?
00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 03 53 4F 4E 59 00 00 00 00 44 .......SONY....D
00000020 31 31 00 38 23 54 37 14 00 32 6F 00 96 6A 17 19 11.8#T7..2o..j..
00000030 0C 0C 0A 0B 01 19 1B 0B 0B 0E 0F 01 00 00 00 00 ................
Thanks
Dissones4u ;)
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akyllonen
Member
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17. July 2005 @ 13:19 |
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I see our conflict. I use the SONY 8x +R's that are coded out to YUDEN002. Not the SONY D11's. I have never used those as I always buy the MADE IN JAPAN Sonys (Better Quality). Next time grab those and you'll be able to burn at 4x with no problem.
You could even try exchanging them if you bought them at Best Buy, etc. They seem to be pretty good about that!
Good luck!
2.4 Celeron;512k ram; 80gig HD; 60gig HD; Windows XP(SP1).
Sony DRU-710A (BYX4)
DVD Shrink/DVD Decrypter.
TYG02;YUDEN002;MCC blanks.
Favorite Media: Sony 8x+R(MADE IN JAPAN)
Laptop: 1.4 Ghz;256k ram; 40 gig HD;Windows XP
NEC ND-6650A Burner
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Dissone
Junior Member
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17. July 2005 @ 13:31 |
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Will do.
Thanks!
Dissones4u ;)
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. July 2005 @ 20:34 |
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Quote:
I have read and have found by experience that 4x produces quite better results.
@slnixon,
No offense here mate, but that is totally nonsense period. There is no such thing as 4X will produces better quality in results what-so-ever. If such individual prefers to back up with 4X due to the limitations of his/her dvd burner, and or to avoid getting coasters, then I'd definitely agree. Cheers now. :-)
I backed up all my DVD movies using TY/FUJI 8X DVD+R "MIJ" code: YUDEN000-T02 flawlessly. The only time [70%] I back up with 4X is when I'm backing up my PS2 games due to the fact that I don't want to see any coasters period, and plus PS2 games is a bitch on the price.
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Moderator
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17. July 2005 @ 22:46 |
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@Dissone - sounds like the firmware for your burner is out of date, hence limiting your burn speed choices..
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules *** |
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Dissone
Junior Member
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18. July 2005 @ 12:39 |
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@creaky,
My last post shows that dvdinfopro found that this media only supports 6x and 8x descripting. The Philips media that I was using will still burn at 2.4x; are you sure that it could be firmware? This burner is only a few months old. How can I find out about firmware such as current version and newest version?
@alkohol,
I have also found that burning at slower speeds produces less errors, saugmon (above) seems to have said the same thing. If you consistantly burn at 8x maybe you could share your secret or method of doing so without getting dvd's that freeze up.
Thanks for all of the assistance fella's
Dissones4u ;)
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. July 2005 @ 15:11 |
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Hey Dissone, What kind of setup do you have?
Is it a single DVD-RW combo drive or is it like my setup,a separate lite-on dvd rom along with the benq 1620.
I've also got the single DVD-RW drive,Benq1620, in my spare 598 mhz pc. I have to watch out how I do my backups on it,because this newer 8x maxell/sony/and verbatim will burn 12x and 16x. I have several different brands of media. If I rip an original on that spare pc,my burn speed options are usually 8x-max. But burning a second copy, the files are already on the harddrive,the backup options will be reading your blank and I have more slower burn speed options available.
Also when I rip another new movie,whatever the last burn speed I use,my backup option speed stays at that speed on that spare pc.
I have more burn speed options on my main pc with the separate dvd drives.My backup options are detecting both discs in the drive. When you have only a single drive,it usually goes back to the last speed that it burned.
If you got the single drive,try a backup on a rw disc using DVD Shrink and burn imediately after the encoding,if you have just the single dvdrw drive.
That's the problem with some of the newer quality media,they will fly!
Just a little info that may help you out.
Check here for a firmware update on your burner.They revamped their site and don't include many models.
Sometimes you don't have to update the firmware,like my original B7-C9 and B7-L9 BenQ firmware,sometimes you have to update the fw right after you open it out of the box, my IO magic 16x:
http://www.americal.com/pg/dvd-burner-writer-firmware-version-upd...
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. July 2005 @ 21:32 |
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Quote:
@alkohol,
I have also found that burning at slower speeds produces less errors, saugmon (above) seems to have said the same thing. If you consistantly burn at 8x maybe you could share your secret or method of doing so without getting dvd's that freeze up.
@Dissone,
Yes, I backed up all my DVD movies with 8X DVD+R "MIJ" medias -- they all plays/reads flawlessly.
Yes... I, totally am agree with you 100% that burning at 4X or lower speeds will produces less "errors/coasters". However, that is not neccessary or it has not been proven that burning at 4X will produces better quality in results. Please feel free to educate me any time because I'm still learning and I need to know this for myself - perhaps, I may be wrong, so I'm willing to listen. :-) Cheers now, mate... :-)
Here is what the original poster stated: "I have read and have found by experience that 4x produces quite better results." Evidently, that is what I'm replying to, in regards to that comment only. In addition, if you use "only" good quality medias such as Taiyo Yuden ("MIJ" YUDEN000T02)), Verbatim (MCC products only, not that CMC craps), FUJI/TY ("MIJ" YUDEN000T02) and Maxell ("MIJ" MAXELL-002-00), and if your DVD burner is capable/compatible of writing at 8X, then you "definitely" will get a successfully burned/backed up 100% at all times.
On the other hand, I can't guarantee you that by using the above medias I've mentioned will get you a 100% successful burned every time you perform a back up. He/She will have to know for sure that his/her burner is up to date with the firmware and is compatible with the media(s) when it is presented.
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Moderator
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18. July 2005 @ 22:55 |
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@Dissone - you see our dilemma - you have to give us more to go on.. we have to make assumptions 'til you give use more..
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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Dissone
Junior Member
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19. July 2005 @ 04:45 |
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saugmon,
Thanks for the info; I appreciate the site for firmware updates I will check it out more thoroughly this weekend. My setup is as follows: I have a DVD ROM drive and an external DL burner on a 2.0 USB port. I think that without question this media is funky, it simply will not allow for a slower burn then 6x. It allows a request for a slower speed but will not comply. Anyway I think that burning from the HD is solving my problem (I was burning on the fly which gave me great results and speed), my DVD ROM drive is 8x Read Max and I think that burning at 8x Max was not allowing the Read buffer to stay ahead of the actual burn thereby causing data loss. Anyway I don't believe that there is a way to force a slower burn so I'll make due with ripping to the HD before burning.
Thank you guys I appreciate everybody's help on this matter,
Dissones4u ;)
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