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Verbatim DVD-R Questions.....
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-Marlin-
Member
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22. August 2005 @ 21:10 |
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OK so Verbatim is the king of media from what I have read so far... is Ritek anywhere close, or is there no point in using anything but Verbatim?
Can someone please help me out with some info on these printable surace DVD's? I have no idea how they work or how one would print on the label side. Are they worth it? I wouldn't mind something nicer than a Sharpie marker label (Sharpie markers are ok to use on media right? Even on the plain no label DVD-R's where the top label side looks just like the bottom?).
Would these 2 DVD-R's choices be good ones? They don't look like the same 'commercially' packaged ones, and I can't tell the difference between these 2...
http://www.cdw.ca/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=717264
http://www.cdw.ca/shop/products/specs.aspx?EDC=701545
Sorry for all the questions... but I am having a hard time finding some of these answers on the net.... :P
Thanks!!!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. August 2005 @ 21:47
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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22. August 2005 @ 22:11 |
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Out of the two, I would go with the first link. These should be Verbatim's top DVD-R. The branded ones (second link) can be from Taiwan, which is still good, but I think the unbranded should be better. Worst case, they are the same thing only the other ones are much cheaper. I do see that the unbranded ones mention Metal Azo dye. This is good.
Personally, I prefer Taiyo Yuden. I don't think anything can be better with the results that I get.... I use DVD+R however. I think that +R writing strategy is better than -R and results in a better burn.
I have also tried Ritek R03s. They are Excellent, but not nearly as good as Taiyo Yuden. Verbatim will also be better than Ritek. The difference will be seen with picky players. Most players should have no problem with Riteks, but one of mine does. It seems that this player loves Taiyo Yuden though, even more so than factory pressed DVDs.
As for using Sharpies, that's what I use. As long as you write on the label side (even on the shiney ones), you shouldn't have a problem. Just let the ink dry for a minute or two before storing it.
Wait around a bit and people may find better deals on the Verbs for you.
Edit:
I forgot to mention about printable DVDs. You can get something like an Epson Stylus R300 and print on inkjet printable DVDs. It is about a $100 printer and can also do normal printing, photographs, etc... I have seen High Quality results from displays at stores, but not worth it to me (Sharpie is cheaper than printer ink). You can also buy a DVD inkjet printer, but that will be $800. The Epson is the better choice here.
Thermal printable DVDs can only be printed by a Thermal Printer. These can be about $100 for a B&W one that can basically do only text and simple pics, and about $2500 for a good one that does professional work.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. August 2005 @ 22:17
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-Marlin-
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22. August 2005 @ 23:12 |
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JaguarGod,
Thanks very much for the response!!
Yeah I agree that the Sharpie route sounds a bit better to me than buying another printer just for DVD labels...
So you think DVD+R results in a better burn? If you don't mind could you explain why or refer me to a website which will answer that question for me? I still don't understand the difference between + and - recordable media, and the advantages of each.
Thanks again, I wasn't expecting answers to all my questions, but ended up getting them all and then some...nice!
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. August 2005 @ 05:14 |
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Both those choices should have the same MID code. I'd go with the top one.Metal azo dye in both of them,very fine quality.
You came to the right place for answers.There's a slew of people here.
Quote:
So you think DVD+R results in a better burn?[/qote]
It's usually comes down to the compatability of where your dvd backups are going to be played in.Ps2/dvd-rom,x-box/dvd-rw/and the usual stand alone players on your tv. Some of them can be finicky as to which format they like and even which burner's backups that they will play.If they don't like a certain format,you'll get a "No Disc Inserted" error.
The main difference between the plus and dash: Some burners can booktype the plus format media to dvd-rom.This increases the compatability on stand alones. The dash format can't booktyped.Dvd-rom is the universal format,so the standalones can read them better.
I am also a plus only format user and all my backups are booktyped to dvd-rom!
Marlin, What is the make and model # of your DVD-RW drive?
The epson r-200 is a very fine dvd disc printer and runs between $80-$100 here in the USA. Lots of threads on the r-200/r-300/r-320 printers.We even have threads that tell you where to download these disc covers/case covers/and very cheap ink cartridges.
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!! |
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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23. August 2005 @ 09:51 |
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Here is a technical article about DVD+R: http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/113
I have done my own testing in a way. I have about 30 movies done on cmc mag discs. The first thing I noticed is that only two of my eight DVD players will play the DVD-R discs. The two players are my PC DVD-ROM drive and my Panasonic DVD player. The Panasonic really does not care what you through at it. It will play just about anything. It even takes stuff that my pc does not play (including discs with holes in them).
The DVD+R discs are compatible with 5 of my 8 players. They are only not compatible with my old RCA, my Samsung DVD-611 and the Toshiba (nothing works on this, but I have yet to attempt a TY on it).
Now with bad media, as long as it plays on your PC, it should be repairable right? Not always. Every DVD+R that I have on a cmc Mag is rippable. Only a few DVD-R on a cmc Mag are rippable.
There are also PI/PO testing. The DVD+R average about half the PI/PO errors that the DVD-R average. Also I have seen insane peaks with the DVD-R (over 1200 and the limit is about 1500). I also used to have a Plextor DVD burner which did a different test which tests playabiliy. The DVD-R always scored bad or very bad and resulted in a graph that looked like a blob. The DVD+R always scored a good and the shape looked like humps which is good.
The crappy DVD+R seemed to get similar scores as the Ritek DVD+R, but with more PI/PO errors. The crappy DVD-R...well I don't know what to say.
If you are buying good media, DVD+R & DVD-R should get similar results, but I still think DVD+R will give you the the highest Quality burn. Some burners have preferences though.
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-Marlin-
Member
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23. August 2005 @ 16:08 |
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Saugmon,
I have an LG 4163 drive, and the movies I will be burning are only going to be played on stand alone DVD players. I can see why you guys use the + format, you don't want to get over to someone's house with a bunch of people, pop the movie in and find that their payer doesn't support it..... :P
I bought my specific burner due to the great review(s), and editor's pick on cdfreaks I think it was, they listed it as having excellent +DL burning results among other things, and it was right in my price range (bought it OEM for $60CDN... Plextor started at $150CDN I beleive). I just couldn't justify a Plextor since I am not hardcore into it right now.
JaguarGod,
I keep reading about PI/PO errors, but what are they? Is it something shows up on the final product? So the DVD+R's are more compatible, and will burn/read with better results, and it seems that DVD+R media in general is better quality, and one would not have to be a choosey when buying their media in this format? Is this kind of right or am I way off? ...lol
Also, I have a friend who really wants to get burning using +DL but all you can get around here in Verbatim in 3 packs at $9.00CDN a pop. What exactly happens when you burn with cheaper media (we have Sony, Dynex, FujiFilm, Memorex, Vakoss, and Maxell here)? Will he notice crappier quality, etc...? Read errors?
I am having trouble (man this phrase keeps popping up) grasping/understanding what the visible/audible difference will be between different quality burners, and different quality media.
Thanks again for your repsonses guys!!!
HB
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. August 2005 @ 17:20 |
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Marlin: You lg 4163 may be able to booktype. DVD Decrypter has a tab for LG. DVD Shrink also has a box you can tick,when you burn plus format media.
I like the verbatim +2.4x dual layer media. Very good.I don't think it gets any higher other than ritek. I can't tell you much about the cheaper dual layer media,there isn't a whole lot of different manufacturers for it.I wouldn't go with the el cheepo dl brands.
The difference between quality burners and Media:
I have 5 pc burners and 1 tv home burner.All 5 burners are ok when those backups are viewed on the burner drive that produced them.The main difference is the compatability on stand alones and other pc drives.
Both my benq 1620s play their booktyped backups just about everywhere.The dash format does not fare well from my benqs.I only use quality media and a 4x max burn speed!
My I/O magic 16x was built by EMPA! It had it's own booktyping utility,but those booktyped backups had a 50% compatability for me.The dash format was a lot better,but only about 75%.
My Brand new HP460c: I tried to re-rip several backups with my benqs and Lite-on 167t and had too many read errors to rip.Also noticed the compatability wasn't up to my standards.
Kypermedia +8x: 1 apex stand alone player wouldn't recognize it's backups,even though it was plus only format.That apex did play the rest of my plus/dvd-rom/and dash from the majority of these burners.
You'll notice quite a bit of variations as to how picky some of these stand alones and pc drives will play backups.That's why I agree with the quality burner along with booktyping.You'll really notice the compatability difference if you decide you want to re-rip your backups later.If that dvd-rom or DVD-RW drive don't recognize your backup,it will not rip it for another copy.
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!!
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-Marlin-
Member
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23. August 2005 @ 17:35 |
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Saugmon,
OK thanks... this is making a lot more sense now. Good thing I haven't gone out and loaded up on media yet!!!
Yeah mine is capable of booktyping, but I don't want to use DVD-Shrink as I was told even at 0% compression the data is processed and altered to a small degree, so I am going to try using DVD-Decrypter.
So Ritek (RiData) is better than Verbatim? If so that's a good thing because I can get Ritek (RiData) around here in many formats!!! I also found out that I can get Taiyo Yuden in the + format as well.
Now which to go with....
How would you rank these three (Taiyo, Ritek, Verbatim) in terms of quality...
Last question then I SWEAR I will leave you alone ...lol ... I really appreciate your time!!
HB
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. August 2005 @ 17:39
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. August 2005 @ 18:02 |
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I don't know about the quality of DL media,usually the verbs should be one of the best.
Regular DVD-5 media: You'll notice quality differences between formats and spindle sizes. Therefore:
Taiyo yuden-Genuine/beware of fakes
verbatim data life plus-Metal azo dye.
Fuji-Made in japan
Sony 1x-8x-Made in japan-Beware of the 1x-4x and 4x speed rated ones.
TDK -in the dash format,Made in japan-Be cautious on the plus format.
Ritek
Maxell-Made in japan-hitachi and taiyo yuden,also have some great MID codes on taiwanese-Ritek and ricohjpn.
Ricohjpn
This is some of the media I have used and all performed identical so my benqs can't complain about any of them.
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!!
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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23. August 2005 @ 18:12 |
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The PI/PO errors is technically explained here: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80545
Basically the fewer the errors the better the burn and the greater chance of it working on a DVD Player. As errors increase, there is a greater chance of the movie skipping, freezing, and ultimately giving Disc Read Errors. DVD+R seems to give you a smaller amount of errors, but crappy media is still crap. If you stick with Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden, you will not have to worry about this though. Also good media has a longer life. 100 years opposed to about 20. Crap media can go corrupt at any time. I would say 5 years is max before crappy dye begins to deteriorate.
I would rank Taiyo Yuden Best, Verbatim 2nd, and Ritek 3rd (though Maxell DVD+R made in Japan is probably better).
Dynex is just Best Buy's label. I had some Dynex 8x DVD+R and they were Ritek R03. I am not sure what the 16x is though.
Sony made in Japan and Fujifilm made in Japan will be the best DVD+R discs you can find. I have Fujifilm 8x made in Japan (made by Taiyo Yuden), and they produce Phenominal Burns.
Memorex is a NO NO!!!! They are usually cmc Mag discs. I have never heard of Vakoss and as stated earlier, Maxell made in Japan are up there with TY and Verbatim.
I am not familiar with DL burning, but Verbatim is always reliable.
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-Marlin-
Member
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23. August 2005 @ 18:31 |
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Wow, you are right JaguarGod, just looked up some maxell at bestbuy, 100 year archival life with the maxell's..... i am guessing those are the good ones (and they are on sale)... and I would assume the dvd media that is guaranteed for life is good stuff as well...
kind of a relief that I may not have to go ordering media through the mail... from what I had read I thought everything but verbatim was crap.
So would I be correct if I said it's not SO much the quality of the video produced, when considering media brands and + or - formats, as it is the compatibility, stability, and longevity of the burned media?
Thanks again!!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. August 2005 @ 18:38
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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23. August 2005 @ 18:45 |
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-Marlin-,
Quote:
but I don't want to use DVD-Shrink as I was told even at 0% compression the data is processed and altered to a small degree, so I am going to try using DVD-Decrypter
This is true although you probably won't notice that the files have been processed or altered. In most cases you will have to use a transcoder/encoder to shrink/compress the folder to fit on a dvd5. Dvd decrypter will only work alone to make a 1:1 copy if the folder is smaller than 4.38 gb.
My order of media preferance:
verbatum
taiyo yuden (close 2nd)
sony (made in japan)
fuji (made in japan)
branded ritek ridata (ricohjpn)
I only use dvd+r due to I booktype all burns to dvd-rom and personally feel dvd+r is the better of the two formats.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. August 2005 @ 19:14
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-Marlin-
Member
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23. August 2005 @ 19:56 |
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Mort81,
Ok so can I booktype with DVDShrink? I have both dvd-decrypter and dvd-shrink, so would I use decrypter to rip the dvd (since it seems it can decrypt anything), shrink to edit out the parts i dont want, and then shrink to burn it again with booktyping?
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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23. August 2005 @ 20:08 |
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Dvd shrink can not burn it has to use either DVD Decrypter or Nero to burn (or other burning software to burn from hdd folder). There is no reason to run it through shrink twice. I need to know what you're going to use to burn (dvd decrypter or nero) so I can explain how to bitset with that proggy.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
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-Marlin-
Member
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23. August 2005 @ 20:46 |
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Ahh... ok sorry
I have Shrink, Decrypter, and Nero Ultra I believe its called.
I'll use whatever you think is best, as I really have no preference.
HB
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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23. August 2005 @ 21:07 |
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Ok after you have dvd shrink set up the way you want your back up to be click backup. Set up target device window and quality settings the way you want them then click on burn settings tab [same place you select burn speed (4x recommended)]. Make sure the booktype dvd-rom box is checked. That should do it. You can verify the back up is booktyped dvd-rom with dvd identifier. http://dvd.identifier.cdfreaks.com/ Good luck.
Note: make sure you have enable burning with nero checked under edit<preferances<file I/O.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. August 2005 @ 21:11
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-Marlin-
Member
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1. September 2005 @ 14:09 |
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How about Maxell DVD+R's made in Japan? It's wierd, some of the Maxel spindles are made in a Taiwan, then there' a bunch made in Japan. Anyways, I found these at the local Wal-Mart at a super price for 50.... what would these be comparable to? Would they be a good choice for high quality media?
Thanks again!!!
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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1. September 2005 @ 14:57 |
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I have heard that Maxell DVD+R made in Japan are among the best. People have done over 500 burns with not coasters. Do not get the ones made in Taiwan. I don't know what those are, but Japan will be better.
Also, how much is it for the 50 pack? If they are about $20 get them. Same goes for Verbatim.
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-Marlin-
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1. September 2005 @ 15:24 |
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Thanks again JG,
It is $25CDN for 50 of the Maxell MIJ's which is insanely cheap also considering I don't have to pay for shipping, works out to $0.58 per DVD. I can get authentic TY's for exactly $1.00CDN a piece after tax and shipping.
These are the same ones that come with a lifetime warranty and advertise 100 year archival life... just ran across them today at the store. Seems the Taiwanese ones dont claim that, just the MIJ ones, so must be something extra special about them.
What do you think? Good buy? How would these compare to TY? Similar?
This is exciting...lol
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. September 2005 @ 15:25
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. September 2005 @ 16:10 |
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JaguarGod:
Quote:
Do not get the ones made in Taiwan. I don't know what those are, but Japan will be better.
Taiwanese maxells:
-4x: Ritek-g04
-8x: Ritek-g-5
+4x: Ricohjpn-01
+8x: Ritek-R03
Very good manufacturers,but beware of the smaller 3/5 pack with jewel cases of dash 4x made in taiwan.Reports of cmags are among them.
I just picked up 2- 100 pack spindles at office depot of their own brand name +8x and they are Ritek-r03. Very good for 30 cents apiece. 150/150 perfect so far,and 150 more to go!
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!!
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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1. September 2005 @ 18:06 |
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Yes, those Ritek R03s are good. I was 48/48 with those. So either way you will be fine, but I would still prefer the Maxell from Japan. $25CDN is a great price!!! You should definately get them.
How do they compare with TY? They are in the same league. Any difference will be based on your burner's preference. For me the TY is 100% compatible, even with players that do not play any copied movies, the TY will work (yes, even Toshiba)!!
I would estimate that overall TY will give you about 95% compatibility and Maxell will be between 90 to 95% with a dvd player. No disc will be 100% not even a Factory pressed disc. The Ritek would be around 85% though for me it is 4/6 DVD players that play them (5/7 if you count both ps2 sytems).
If your DVD players are newer, you will not have problems with any of them, unless if you have a Toshiba. Those cannot really play anything, though I have had success with the TY discs.
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-Marlin-
Member
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1. September 2005 @ 22:55 |
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Alright.. thanks JaguarGod and saugman, i am going to try those MIJ maxells out, cant pas that up
i appreciate it... as always..lol
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