|
|
|
VHS to DVD
|
|
|
teleman
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
12. March 2005 @ 05:19 |
Link to this message
|
ok,problem,Can't get vhs to either DVD Shrink or DVD decryptor.This is for DVD as far as I understand.
I've tried using the same programs you are using and have gotten to the point where it's ready to put to a DVD.The VHS tape time is:02:16:56:28.
Is the VHS supposed to be compressed during the time you put in your hardrive or after or both.I got so far and except for trying to use the Sonic my DVD,that seems to be the only difference between what I'm doing and what you're doing.It's got to be a simple error I am Making.I couldn't set video time or anything else on the Sonic.Maybe that's where the problem is??How much recording time are you getting down from VHS to DVD?Thanks for the help. teleman@ids.net
|
|
Advertisement
|
 |
|
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
12. March 2005 @ 08:16 |
Link to this message
|
|
I get between 4 and 6 hours of VHS to DVD, depending on how much action there is in the video.
If Sonic won't compress it enough, can you get Sonic to simply output the dvd to your hard drive?
If so, it can then be compressed with DVDShrink.
If Sonic outputs an MPG, then it can be authored with any mumber of programs.
I know this sounds frustrating, having to use one program for this, another for that, but it's RARE that there is a program of any sort that can do it all, without any problems.
These DVD creator types, don't do well with anything over 2 hours (as you're finding out).
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
|
|
teleman
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
12. March 2005 @ 09:51 |
Link to this message
|
|
Then how are you able to get 4-6 hours?? teleman@ids.net Are you using a dual DVD r?
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
12. March 2005 @ 10:52 |
Link to this message
|
Time=bitrate.
Encode the video to a lower bitrate, get more on the disk.
This requires severe adjustments in your encoder, which ever you use.
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
|
|
Motomatt
Senior Member
|
13. March 2005 @ 13:10 |
Link to this message
|
|
I have everything I need to back up a VHS tape to my computer.. Only problem is this. After I start to record the tape and stop to playback a section of it so I can see if it worked. I get a perfect picture and then a large grey rectangle appears in the center of the screen.. Is this macrovision? Can it be bypassed with software? I tried lots of different programs with the same result. I assume it's the tape because TV records just fine.. Any ideas besides buy some more hardware? Thanks
Matt
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. March 2005 @ 13:12
|
|
teleman
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
14. March 2005 @ 12:45 |
Link to this message
|
Well,if bitrate is the secret to longest amount of recording time on a DVD then,I think thats a problem if it has to do with,good,better and best then the video is terrible and worse than the video itself.Is it worth it?Why doesn't DVD to DVD cause these kind of problems?I would have though analog would have at least be as good as the vhs,but I'm not getting near that at all. teleman@ids.net
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
14. March 2005 @ 13:23 |
Link to this message
|
There are so many variables...sigh...
Take original quality, 2 hours, and try to make it fit on a dvdr. It must be firstly encoded to mpeg-2.
If you do it at 1:1, the file will fill TWO dvdr5's, or ONE Dual Layer.
Now we realize we must encode at 1:2 so it fits on the dvdr5. There goes (theoretically) half your quality.
There are ways to preserve the majority of quality, while still getting 2 full hours (or even more) onto one dvdr5. This is ALL done by the encoder. (Here's where a hardware mpeg-2 encoder capture card is miles better than most).
A standard 2 hour dvd, has a movie bitrate of about 9000kbps (peak), to maintain it's quality. Remember, it's twice the size of your dvdr5 you're trying to burn. To get the same 2 hours onto dvdr5, you must cut the bitrate in half. Knock off the starting and ending credits, and we get a bit more than half ;)
There's a couple of ways to maintain more quality, yet still fit 2 hours on one dvdr5.
1.) Encode the video to half D1 resoltion/aspect. This requires approximately half the bitrate, to maintain the same quality. Encode to 1/4 D1, and this requires 1/4 the bitrate to maintain about the same quality. Your mileage may vary.
Now, let's say we want an extremely good quality video, but we still need 2 hours on the disk.
Use an encoder that will accurately determine average bitrate on a VBR encode. This produces higher quality, because it only uses the max bitrate on scenes that need it (high motion), and uses far less bitrate on scenes that don't. Consider all the bitrate wasted on credits. If they were static, it would be minimal, but because they scroll most of the time, bitrate is needed to keep the scrolling smooth, and be readable. That's how little the difference can be in a motion scene, or a static scene in the movie itself. Better encoders detect the motion better, and produce better results on high motion stuff.
Tmpgenc works, although not great, nor fast. It just happens to be the most MARKETED encoder. The "Motion search precision" setting in TMPGEnc is where you choose how good it is at determining motion scenes, and how much bitrate is needed to maintain quality during those scenes. It's far from the best, and I would rate it about 4th on the list of standalone encoders. I would consider it a "hobby" encoder.
All-in-one packages usually have an encoder engine built by someone else. There's only 4 or 5 companies that do serious research on encoding methods (for DVD/mpeg), and they sell their encoder technology to anyone with the money to buy it.
Now to address some specific issues.
Everyone needs a good bitrate calculator.
You need to know 2 things to use one. The running time of your video, and the audio bitrate you want to use.
DVD audio is between 192kbps and 448kbps, with 384kbps being somewhat standard, yet 224kbps yeilds about the same quality (unless it's DTS or DD5.1). Most home dvd's are produced with 224kbps audio.
DVD video bitrate is determined by the length of the video. If it's truly exactly 2 hours, then using audio AC3 (which is DVD spec, not .mp2!!!) at 224kbps, we find that the video cannot be encoded at a bitrate any higher than 4850kbps. Most encoders will do this fairly accurately if you set that as the AVERAGE bitrate for a VBR encode. 4850 you realize, is only slightly more than HALF a commercial DVD.
If you don't KNOW the audio bitrate, you cannot accurately get video bitrate, and the movie may encode to large.
Your options then, are to encode anyhow, author, and then use DVDShrink to make it all fit, thus doubling the time involved, or re-encode the VIDEO and AUDIO to the correct bitrates. Fortunately, encoding audio only takes about 4 minutes for a 2 hour movie. Encoding video can take anywhere from 1 hour to 40 hours, depending on your computer speed, and the encoder you use.
I hope this sheds a bit more light on how it all comes together :)
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
|
|
OKIE
Member
|
14. March 2005 @ 15:53 |
Link to this message
|
|
motomat if you find software for macrovision,quote"Is this macrovision? Can it be bypassed with software".let me know if there is software for this,I would appreciate it thanks.
OKIE
|
|
Motomatt
Senior Member
|
14. March 2005 @ 18:50 |
Link to this message
|
|
I sure would like to know myself.. I have only one VHS tape to back up! Then I'm done with it! A friend asked me to back up a VHS movie that he was in way back in high school. Other wise, I wouldn't be wasting my time with this.. I still cant beleive there are no drivers to disable macrovision in a NVIDIA card.. or some way around this. It's ancient technology? right?
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
14. March 2005 @ 19:20 |
Link to this message
|
A few thoughts on macrovision:
Use a TV with TV output. Run VHS to TV, TV to capture card.
Use an ancient VCR. Vintage 1980's and before simply ignore macrovision. Old VCRs (1980's) may not have AGC (Automatic Gain Control) circuits (which is actually the source of the Macrovision distortions), and that's why they work. There is no good way to identify which VCR works and which doesn't.
Another method to get vhs onto dvd, or through your vcr, onto tv, macrovision free. It's a freeware dvd "player" called VideoLAN Client. It's an app developed by some college students in France to be able to play dvd's and vcd's over a network, (hence the name VideoLAN). But, it has one particuliarly neat feature, intended or not, it's macrovision free.
Not sure if you can save the video this way though.
The 1.0.28 (original or modified) version of the soft-Cinemaster decoders is macrovision-free. Specifically designed for use with the ATI DVD Player. You can download the needed player and decoder files from the soft-Cinemaster Download Center. http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/downloads/cinemaster.html
Those with ATI cards should also search for a file called atitvo.dll or ATITVO32.DLL in your Windows directory and rename it to (or move/delete it) something (or somewhere) else.
PowerDVD and WinDVD
You can use the latest version of Remote Selector or DVDIdle to disable Macrovision for PowerDVD and WinDVD. For Remote Selector, choose "None, Player only" as your decoder and choose "PowerDVD" or "WinDVD" as the decoder. Select the "Disable Macrovision" option, and viola - Macrovision is gone!!
Again, not sure if you can save this way though.
READ: http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/LINK/F_MacroVision.html
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
|
Senior Member
|
14. March 2005 @ 21:58 |
Link to this message
|
I have recently been looking into this macrovision problem, and came across an interesting article by a guy that tried everything. http://www.biline.ca/ati_macrovision.htm
He wanted to put his VHS movie collection onto DVD, and didn't have any luck with ATI cards and third party drivers that were supposed to work. He also tried some Macrovision removal devices, and these didn't work. He eventually came across the Hauppauge line of cards, and settled on the WinTV-PVR-250. It's one of those PCI cards that lets you watch TV on the desktop, or else record a TV program. While Haupauge does not advertise that it removes Macrovision, he claimed that it did.
The card will record up to 12 MB/Sec, which seems to indicate that some fairly good quality is possible. It also appears that there aren't the typical audio-video synch problems.
If anyone has or gets one of these cards, let us know what you think?
.
.
I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. (Pablo Picasso) |
|
Motomatt
Senior Member
|
15. March 2005 @ 04:57 |
Link to this message
|
|
Thanks for all the replies.. I pretty much figured the worst.. I dont usually do this type of conversion. If I want it on DVD I buy it instead of doing a time consuming transfer. In this case the tape is not made on DVD and is pretty old so I have no choice. I'm going to the good will/thrift store to find a old old old VCR. It's cheaper than a new capture card (which I already have) and I can bring stuff back if it doesn't work.. Thanks again everyone that replied to help out.
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
15. March 2005 @ 05:53 |
Link to this message
|
The Hauppauge PVR 250/350/500 all ignore macrovision.
BTW, it's undocumented, but they will also do up to 15MB/sec, not just 12.
Quote:
fairly good quality is possible
Are you kidding? Commercial DVD's are about 8500kbps. 1200kbps is 1/3 more bitrate!
Here's a screenshot at 8500kbps, uncompressed .bmp, so it will take a while to load (sorry dial-up users).
This is from a Hauppauge PVR-250 cable TV capture. Notice slight artifacting around the shoulders. This is an I frame, during movement. A higher bitrate would eliminate this completely.
There is one thing you might want to try.
Hook up the VCR using the TV cable (the normal OUT from VCR to TV, not component or S-vid). Tune your capture card to channel 3 (the same as the VCR out channel) and see if you can cap.
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. March 2005 @ 05:55
|
Senior Member
|
15. March 2005 @ 10:12 |
Link to this message
|
|
jim...thanks for the info and the screen shot. I'm wondering, if the player was captured at 15MB/sec, and then the file was run through an encoder like CCE or ProCoder to reduce the file size, would the artifacts come back? (For instance, let's say the player was in a movie that was 8.4 GB total, and it was run through the RB-CCE process to get a 4.2 GB file.)
Also, does anyone know if the Canopus ADVC-100 will also remove Macrovision?
.
.
I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. (Pablo Picasso) |
AfterDawn Addict
|
15. March 2005 @ 12:13 |
Link to this message
|
Quote:
if the player was captured at 15MB/sec, and then the file was run through an encoder like CCE or ProCoder to reduce the file size, would the artifacts come back?
No, if you use a good encoder, such as you mention Canopus, Mainconcept, or CCE (don't use TMPGEnc for this!), but why waste all that time?
Capture at the bitrate you need, to fit the amount of time you want, on one dvdr. For VHS and TV captures, 4500kbps is lots, because the initial quality of the source isn't better than that. If you have digital cable, it's a different story ;)
I use 4500 for VHS caps, (about 1 movie length, except for those saga's that run 3 hours or more), and 8500 for TV episodes, then cut out commercials/credits, and you can just squeeze two on a disk.
This is approximate of course, depending on the actual running time, how much editing you do, etc.
If my finished product doesn't quite fit, I use DVDShrink on it.
Quote:
Also, does anyone know if the Canopus ADVC-100 will also remove Macrovision?
Absolutely!
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
|
Senior Member
|
15. March 2005 @ 13:10 |
Link to this message
|
I'm right at the start of this, so this is some really useful info. I recently got the Canopus ADVC-100 so I could convert a lot of family VHS-C tapes. I now see that there are some older VHS movies that will never make it to DVD, and so I thought I would use it for that also.
The Canopus manual leaves a lot to be desired. I am now wondering what to do with the DV output? There doesn't seem to be any way to set the bitrate of the output signal. Is this done through the authoring software as the signal is input to the HDD?
And, since it is DV, do I need to convert to AVI or MPEG2 before editing/authoring?
On a related topic, I am wondering if anyone knows how the QUALITY of a PDR's output (such as the Liteon 5005 which records a VHS/TV program directly to DVD-R) compares to the "longer" way of doing things such as we are discussing here?
.
.
I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. (Pablo Picasso) |
AfterDawn Addict
|
15. March 2005 @ 14:51 |
Link to this message
|
The PVR recorders do only 2 things. 1 hour per dvdr in high quality, or 2 hours at lower quality.
Some do extended, supposedly 4 hours per.
Canopus only tells you (in the manual) how to get the stuff onto the computer. You have almost NO choice in this. It's in extremely high quality DV Type 2 AVI.
It must then be encoded to mpeg-2, and then authored, and THEN burned.
Don't worry about the DV bitrate. Because it's AVI, it really doesn't matter in this case, because you're going to convert to mpeg-2 to fit on dvdr.
Use the bitrate calculator to figure out how much video you can get on one dvdr. I'm sure you found a few of my other postst on this :)
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
|
Senior Member
|
15. March 2005 @ 15:26 |
Link to this message
|
The Liteon 5005 has a hack that disables macrovision, and also allows for 3 hours of recording...for those movies that go over the 120 minutes. I have looked all over to find what bitrate they use for different settings, but no success. People claim they like the quality...but comparted to what?
Quote:
Use the bitrate calculator to figure out how much video you can get on one dvdr. I'm sure you found a few of my other postst on this :)
Yes, plenty of posts with some very good bitrate info that I can use to get started. Thanks.
.
.
I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. (Pablo Picasso) This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. March 2005 @ 15:27
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
15. March 2005 @ 16:11 |
Link to this message
|
Quote:
People claim they like the quality...but comparted to what?
Exactly! :)
I would think that they use (given a standard NTSC framerate of 29.97fps) about 9500 for 1 hour, and about 4750 for 2 hours, given an audio rate of 224kbps. Video bitrate would be a bit less, if audio is a bit more.
The reason they look as good as they do, is because of the hardware filtering abilities. The same way a hardware capture card does.
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
|
|
tinner45
Member
|
15. March 2005 @ 17:47 |
Link to this message
|
I tried to download virtual Dub but it gives me an open with window. What do you open it with? It wont install. Just a newbie here. just bought a capture card. I read you used the virtual dub to capture videos, so I treid to download it.I have nero; copy to dvd. DVD Shrink (I like the best). How do I download virtual on to my computer???
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
15. March 2005 @ 17:50 |
Link to this message
|
If you don't have XP, get Winzip, which you need to decompress the file, and install it.
http://virtualdub.sourceforge.net
Select which one you want. Click it.
Click on the little download icon.
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. March 2005 @ 17:52
|
|
tinner45
Member
|
16. March 2005 @ 08:26 |
Link to this message
|
I do have WinZIP but it would not come yesterday. All it showed was open with program. Today the WinZIP came up. Everything is okay. Thanks
tinner45
|
|
Motomatt
Senior Member
|
16. March 2005 @ 21:22 |
Link to this message
|
|
Just wanted to let you guys know.. I found a way around my "grey rectangle" in the middle of my recorded movies.. I found a set of NVIDIA drivers that dont support macrovision.. loaded them and everything records perfect now.. Thanks again..
|
|
OKIE
Member
|
16. March 2005 @ 22:14 |
Link to this message
|
|
what kind of nvidia drivers like grafhic type iam still looking at the goodwill for old vcrs.
OKIE
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
Motomatt
Senior Member
|
17. March 2005 @ 10:46 |
Link to this message
|
My NVIDIA graphics card has a SVIDEO input/out/composite in/out..
Simply replace your Nvidia Capture driver "NVCAP.SYS" in Windows/System32/Drivers with version 1.08. That's it!
Seems NVidia disabled Macrovision in that release to cure some issue or other. Leave the rest of your drivers at the installed release.
Find a 1.08 copy of the WDM Drivers. It'll be an EXE file, but you can open it in WinZIP.
Extract "nvcap.sys". Backup original. Replace with extracted version. Can always restore the original should you need to.
If you can't find version 1.08 from Nvidia, you can get the download from here:
http://www.xfxgraphics.com/pineutilities/WDM_1.08.exe
Remember to only extract and replace "nvcap.sys".
Matt
|
|
