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HD-DVD and Bluray will only work with HDMI or DVI!!!
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26. February 2006 @ 13:19 |
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Razengan!!!
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26. February 2006 @ 14:26 |
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damn that bites! oh well, my dad bought an LCD with HDMI so we're safe lol. But all the others without HDMI :( a big sad face goes out for you.
Gigabyte 3d Aurora 570 | Coolermaster Real Power M1000 | Core i7 920 @ 4.0ghz w/ Coolermaster V10 | DFI LanParty DK-X58-T3EH6 | Evga GTX275 SLI @ FTW clocks | 3x2GB Patriot 1600mhz | Seagate 500GB x2, 1.5TB, FreeAgentPro 500GB | Dell 2408WFP | Windows 7 Professional x64
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diabolos
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26. February 2006 @ 14:45 |
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The info in that artical is a little mis-leading...
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In perhaps the greatest disservice to the general consumer market yet perpetrated by players in the electronic entertainment industry, it has been revealed that next-generation DVD technologies (HD-DVD and Blu-ray) will only function with monitors and HDTVs with HDMI or DVI connections.
Then...
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Thus, no HDMI input on your TV, no hi-def DVD for you. If you don't have a compatible TV, you'll either receive a massively downgraded sub-720p resolution version of the content, or what the studios are suggesting, a warning screen followed by nothing.
Its simple, if your tv isn't HDCP compatible the HDCP connections won't work. The Component Video connections will be restricted to 480i/p just like current DVD players!
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Why is this bad? Say you decided to be future proof and purchase a high-end AV receiver with HDMI connections and up-scaling capabilities. Seemed like a good idea last week, but not anymore. Unless it supports HDCP, and it doesn't, because no manufacturers have made HDCP models yet, you won't be routing your HD-DVD or Blu-ray player through it.
That entire pharagraph is un-true. HDCP was incorporated into HDMI spec 1.1 in 2004 which most manfactures have since adopted.
The cheapest one I know about...
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/HTIB/HTR5990.htm
Some 2004 HDTV sets as well as all 2005 HDTV sets shipped with HDCP compatible HDMI and DVI connections.
How can you test your tv or receivers HDMI/DVI port for HDCP compatibility? If your using your HDMI port with HD Satalight or with an Upconvertion DVD player then your tv is ready for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.
HDMI.org about HDMI and HDCP
http://hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp
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Perhaps you're a progressive type and decided to make your media center PC centric. You're screwed too. Even if you purchased a high-end ATI or Nvidia graphics card advertised as HDCP compatible, that all it is: compatible, not compliant. HDCP chips must be bios flashed at the factory, and though these new "compatible" cards have space for a TI HDCP chip, none have them yet. In addition, every link in the chain must be HDCP ready, and only a very few PC monitors have adopted the standard. Get ready to buy both a new high-end graphics card and a new monitor if you want hi-def DVD for your PC.
That part is very true. I feel bad for new Media PC owners. Windows Vista is slated to be fully compatible with HDCP.
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Next-gen DVD is looking pretty questionable at this point. Not only do we have a format war to deal with, we've got Hollywood's accounting departments in charge of deciding the minutia of how we're able to enjoy the content we pay for. No copy protection scheme yet developed has been able to stand up to the genius of the hacking collective, and it's unlikely that even AACS and HDCP will last for long. Just long enough, perhaps, to strangle what remains of the traditional disc-based content distribution model and open the door for ubiquitous digital content and on-demand distribution.
Thats a little bias.
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it's unlikely that even AACS and HDCP will last for long.
What is this person talking about? HDCP is apart of HDMI and DVI-D. HDCP will be used with both Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, Windows Vista, and Apples new OS. AACS will be used in Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.
What they seem not to understand is that HDCP is a form of DRM. HDCP is DRM for the hardware that allows content owners to decide how there content can be used. It doesn't matter what the source is. Meaning that if you want to play the new Titanic available in the 720p HD format via download or DVD (in WMV-HD/VC-1) your PC has to have HDCP compatible outputs in order to play it back on an HDTV with HDCP compatible inputs. Why becuase VC-1 files are copy protected.
(VC-1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VC-1
(WMV-HD)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMV_HD
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Get real information:
(HDCP)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP
(AACS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS
This article suckx. It serves only to make my job harder and pedal mis-information.
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. February 2006 @ 06:36
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AfterDawn Addict
23 product reviews
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28. February 2006 @ 00:49 |
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Quote:
But all the others without HDMI :( a big sad face goes out for you.
It's possible to use analog inputs, if you have a hdcp-supporting signal converter like this:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DCDA1.ASP
They're damn expensive right now, but much more less than a new tv. I bought a 27" lcd with no dvi/hdmi, just vga, component and some others. First I was pissed when I heard this, but then found these signal converters <3
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Jkhmmr
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28. February 2006 @ 03:00 |
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Ah but what about the rest of us with just a normal TV who were relying on older TV support by Sony???? Will that still work??? And I very highly doubt I can find it here in my country.
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AfterDawn Addict
23 product reviews
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28. February 2006 @ 04:45 |
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Quote:
Ah but what about the rest of us with just a normal TV who were relying on older TV support by Sony???? Will that still work??? And I very highly doubt I can find it here in my country.
Well regular tv resolution is 480i, so it's pointless to even try viewing hd-material, since it's physically impossible. It's as impossible as watching dvd's with commodore 64.
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diabolos
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28. February 2006 @ 05:19 |
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@ arcanix,
All "Set-top" boxes have analog outs that are always on so that older analog equipment can still be used (typically Composite Video and S-Video). The outputs are restricted to 480i (including HDTV broadcasts). Meaning that 480i is the resolution all broadcasts are downconverted to. For example, many people still record tv using the VHS format. The VHS machines use composite video which can only handle 480i signals. If CSI comes on which is broadcast at 1080i the ATSC tuner would downconvert the 1080i signal to 480i then send it to the Composite and S-Video connections.
There is no reason why these outputs can't be used with analog tvs aswell. I would use Composite Video with a VCR and S-Video with a tv.
As far as the USA, next year all tvs and other tv components that have analog tuners built-in (ie VCRs, DVD recorders, ect...) must have Digital TV tuners built in to them also!
FCC News (PDF):
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-262013A1.pdf
FCC (DTV page):
http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. February 2006 @ 06:37
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AfterDawn Addict
23 product reviews
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28. February 2006 @ 07:05 |
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Quote:
There is no reason why these outputs can't be used with analog tvs aswell. I would use Composite Video with a VCR and S-Video with a tv.
Of course I know that, but I was talking about hd-signal, which you can't view in a normal crt-tv in any way (talking about unscaled).
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diabolos
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28. February 2006 @ 07:12 |
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Thats cool, I was just making sure everyone was on the same page.
Ced
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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28. March 2006 @ 15:50 |
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Sony's first Blu-ray player BDP-S1 will output HD signals via component cables. This is a real benefit for those with early HD TVs. This may not last long, but the first Sony player will allow it. On the other hand, its HDMI version is 1.1 which will not pass the uncompressed Dolby TrueHD or DTS signals that work only with HDMI 1.3. Progress is so fast these days that products are now obsolete even before they are released!
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diabolos
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29. March 2006 @ 10:11 |
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Only work with HDMI 1.3? Can anyone confirm that DTS-HD and/or Dolby True HD work through the Multi-Channel audio outputs or at least the digital audio connections?
Ced
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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29. March 2006 @ 12:11 |
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HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 will not pass those audio signals. They may be carried as decoded analogue signals or perhaps even as decoded digital signals via Toslink or some other means, but the audio/video digital HDMI will have to be 1.3 as far as I understand.
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diabolos
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29. March 2006 @ 19:42 |
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Yea that is true. HDMI 1.3 is the only version compatible with the new audio formats DTS-HD and Dolby True-HD. My question is will the 6 Channel analog audio outputs available on the Toshiba HD-A1 and HD-XA1 models as well as Sonys Blu-ray player carry the DTS-HD and or Dolby True-HD audio streams. Also is Optical or Coaxial digital audio able to carry the new audio formats digitally.
Ced
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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30. March 2006 @ 07:13 |
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I can only hope that some players will decode the signals within the player and send the decoded signals out via either analogue RCA cables or as a digital stream via digital connections. HDMI 1.3 audio is meant for receivers that can decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD, and there are none yet. A lot of people have invested big money in "flagship" surround receivers costing up to $6,000 that cannot be updated to decode the new uncompressed digital audio signals. If the player has the decoders and can send the decoded signals out, there is no problem (except that there are typically 6 analogue inputs and HD audio will have 8 discrete channels).
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diabolos
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30. March 2006 @ 09:28 |
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Bohefus
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19. April 2006 @ 18:53 |
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Quote:
Check it out!! If you were expecting to view High Def movies on your HDTV with component input, think again. Read this:
Looks like the above may not be true.
Quote:
The Xbox 360 HD-DVD Drive Add-on
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Is the HD-DVD-drive for the Xbox 360 still in the pipeline?
Lewis: Absolutely, yes. We'll say a little bit more about it at E3. It will give people access to HD DVD.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: But the 360 doesn't have an HDMI-Interface -- so you won't actually be able to watch any HD DVD Movies on it because the obligatory copy protection mechanisms are missing.
Lewis: All I can say to you is -- there are interesting developments in the pipeline. We will make sure that the HD-DVD-peripheral device will meet all the requirements for consumers to enjoy high-definition DVD playback.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Meaning, you will be able to watch Hollywood movies in HD through your Xbox?
Lewis: Yes.
http://www.planetxbox360.com/?view=article&article=1188
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. April 2006 @ 21:12 |
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diabolos
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20. April 2006 @ 12:06 |
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When it hit the fan the consumers won the battle! The movie studios couldn't cut out the early adopters because that would have lead to immediate failure. To my knowlege the Westing House 42" monitor (2006) is the only HDTV that can except 1080p via its component video inputs.
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. April 2006 @ 12:08
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20. April 2006 @ 16:00 |
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I understand the whole wanting 1080p; but it's recently been confirmed by Sony; that the PS3 will actually only be 720p anyways. And aside from that; most moves aren't even recorded at the quality of 720p. So really, what's the point?
I think the whole HDMI only thing is really going to blow over quickly. HDMI may be preferred; don't get me wrong. But too many people have already invested in newer High-Def units that don't support it. And quite frankly, we aren't about to replace a tv that still feels brand new. Besides; not everyone really notices the detail difference between 480 and 720. I do. But I really think that only a select few will notice 1080 over 720.
And I'm not here to PS3 bash. I'm sure it will be a largely successful console with great hardware and games. I simply mentioned it; because bottom line here; it's expected to usher in the big HDMI era... Especially with the whole "We're the first *true* HDTV" statement.
It sounds like sony was trying to be really bold with their bleeding edge high end electronics. But negating other products that are still considered top of the line is hardly a good way to do that. I have a 9 month old Sony HDTV that doesn't have HDMI. And I'm sure that I'm definitely not alone. HDMI is wonderful; but it can't be a requirement.
"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim |
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diabolos
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20. April 2006 @ 19:44 |
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Its not about HDMI as much as it is about HDCP. HDMI 1.1 and newer DVI ports support HDCP.
Where is you proof that people can't see a difference between 480i/p and 720p? Have you seen a 1080p set with your own eyes? Most things depend on how large the screen is and how far away the seats are.
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I think the whole HDMI only thing is really going to blow over quickly.
What do you think HDMI is a fad? HDMI has already replaced DVI for home theater equipment and is the connection of choice for all new HD equipment. It does out preform component video and simplifies installation greatly.
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And aside from that; most moves aren't even recorded at the quality of 720p.
Actually movies use a 1080p(@24fps) telecine transfer process. Any other resolution is a derivative of the original 1080p transfer (including the 480i DVD version)!
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but it's recently been confirmed by Sony; that the PS3 will actually only be 720p
Where did you hear or read that? I'm not saying your wrong but it does sound like a lie to me.
Ced
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21. April 2006 @ 09:38 |
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Sony?s support for 1080p is realistic, but not for all games. For the first half of the console?s life, whether or not game developers enable AA will matter more than whether 1080p is supported. By the second half, it?s going to be tough to say.
-Anandtech
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One thing is for sure, support for two 1080p outputs in spanning mode (3840 x 1080) on the PS3 is highly unrealistic. At that resolution, the RSX would be required to render over 4 megapixels per frame, without a seriously computation bound game it?s just not going to happen at 60 fps.
Microsoft?s targets for the Xbox 360 are far more down to earth, with 720p and 4X AA being the requirements for all 360 titles. With a 720p target for all games, you can expect all Xbox 360 titles to render (internally) at 1280 x 720. We?ve already discussed that the 360?s GPU architecture will effectively give free 4X AA at this resolution
-Anandtech(Love this site for info)
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As for 1080p, or 'true HD' as Sony called it at CES - lord help us, it seems most games will not even attempt to output in it, falling back on sensible 720p instead. Or as Kikizo's insider says:
"Sony wanted 1080p, but we're working at 720p and 1080i, same as on the Xbox 360. Even with [final hardware] in mind, reaching good frame rates at 1080p with next-gen graphics is almost impossible. Instead many developers, ourselves included, are reworking so they run at 720p."
-Developer Interviewed by PS3Focus.com; beginning comment by blogs.guardian.co.uk
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Preparations are under way for launch of PS3 and new generation software in the fall of 2006. (*)480p/720p/1080i
-www.us.playstation.com/PressReleases.aspx?id=279 - 33k - Apr 20, 2006
...Does that help?
Given history with Sony and new systems, like the PS2; they have a record of strongly exaggerating their upcoming hardware (1Ghz ps2 anyone?) And the developers are saying a lot of things that indicate lower specs. The cell processor running at 3.2Ghz isn't really all that impressive to me; it's more powerful than others, given. But with only 256 mb dedicated system ram; I can't see 1080p being solidly run like that. Especially the whole 2xHDMI ports for 1080p each.
Again; this thread is about HD DVD and Blu-Ray. I'm not here defending MS or Nintendo. I brought this up; because PS3 is really set to be Sony's flagship device for pushing Blu-Ray as a new format. If the flagship isn't meeting the requirements... What does that say for the format's usability? Ultimately, most of us aren't sitting at home watching a 72" flat panel tv, saying "Geez, I wish that this movie would go to 1080p" I wish more would support true 720; as only a few even appear to be digitally mastered. And it's not for lack of space on most of these DVDs. But that only goes to show the partial usefulness of either of these new competing technologies.
Sorry if I come across arrogant here or anything. It was just really hard gathering all this info; as I'm at work with a computer that censors out almost every mention of the word "Game". I originally got the info a lot faster at home; but either way, it's all here for you. Hope that helps.
"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. April 2006 @ 09:39
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diabolos
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26. April 2006 @ 15:34 |
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It does. I was trying to point out that 1080i is also a very real option. I don't care about 1080p gaming that much.
Thanks for giving your sources,
Ced
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Senior Member
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11. June 2006 @ 18:55 |
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Both camps have pretty much have given up on the whole HMDI/DVI only for true HD materail to be seen. Thanks God I have 57 sony that has no HDMI inputs/outputs think I would even have given a chance to Sony if they left me in the dark. Helllsssssssss NOOoooooossssssss!!!
"Cable thief is a victimless crime."
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Senior Member
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12. June 2006 @ 06:16 |
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Yeah, my sony HDTV is only about a year old; and it has no HDMI ports either. Don't get me wrong, all the information about the port tells me that it's capable of putting out a VERY high capacity signal, but it's not a practical solution for most users yet. Maybe in the future.
In previous consoles, when nicer cable technology became available, it was usually used with game systems. NES went from having only coaxial, to having mono rca cable. N64 and Dreamcast saw S-Video support, close to the N64's end, and about six months after the Dreamcast's launch; and both systems (Depsite their age) did show a noticable difference when using the new cable format.
Given the past record for consoles being able to utilize better cables, etc. It seems that it wouldn't be at all impossible for the PS3 to launch with component video, etc. While still being able to be upgraded to HDMI later on. It's also something that is being speculated much about in the 360 camp.
It is very interesting stuff. And yes the 720p and 1080i resolutions are already spectacular. I mean absolutely stunning. There's nothing wrong with them. 1080p is probably even better, but for the next year or two; it's a complete impracticality.
"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim |
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Junior Member
1 product review
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15. June 2006 @ 02:36 |
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This is what I found on another website.
See if it makes any sense to you guys.
" If you use component for HDDVD,you
may have HD if the ICT flag is not
coded.With the ICT flag,the analogue
connection will be downgraded to 540p
resolution".
DVDDIVA
Sony HDTV KF-E50A10
PS3 ( 60gb)
Toshiba DVD Player SD-4980SC ( upconverting)
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