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ClonyXXL: 5 Skulls but no protection identified ...
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tigre
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6. July 2003 @ 11:28 |
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Hi there!
I want to back up a CD that obviously contains copy protection. I doubt anyone here has heard of it but anyway - It's called "mediscript 2. Staatsexamen" and contains a software for studying for a German medical exam. Creating a working image and use it with some image mounting software would be perfectly ok too.
ClonyXXL (2.0.1.5) shows 5 skulls after scanning/monitoring but no copy-protection is identified. None of "TOC illegal, Overburn, ..., Bad sectors" is checked.
I've tried this so far:
1. Create an image using VirtualCD V 4. I've tried different options: combinations of read RAW sectors, read subchannel data, correct defect sectors, but installing the program from the resulting virtual CD was aborted always with some CRC mismatch error message.
2. Create an image using CloneCD: I got an image that could be used after converting to iso and importing to VirutalCD to install the software but when running the software the CD check failed, the program asked for the serial number and restarted without working over and over again. (If I install the program from the original CD and run it afterwards the serial number isn't necessary).
My drive is a Plextor CDRW 121032A BTW.
Any ideas what settings with CloneCD or what other software could work are appreciated.
Cheers tigre
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. July 2003 @ 11:29
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Shoey
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7. July 2003 @ 03:34 |
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Quote:
Create an image using CloneCD
Did you read the image using sub-q settings (data\audio)? If using CloneCD, try "amplify weak sectors" in the write process(read at 8x, write 4x), Try a program called YaTeS protection scanner and locate the program exe to where you installed Mediscript 2 Staatsexamen and see if YaTeS can identify the exact protection. Search Google or our main website for this handy tool.
Shoey :)
Asus K8N nVidia nForce3 Pro 250 GB, Athlon 64 3200+, Hitachi 80 gig SATA 150, Corsair XMS 1 gig PC4000, ATI Radeon Saphire 9600 Pro (256 DDR), Windows XP Pro (64 Bit),Lite-ON SOHD 167T,, Plextor PX-712SA,BenQ 1640.
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tigre
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7. July 2003 @ 05:55 |
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Thanks for the input, Shoey. I'll try what you've suggested as far as possible ... (The install process creates a start menu entry that is linked directly to a .exe on the CD and some .ini, .log and statistics files in a folder. So there's no .exe copied to HDD besides uninstallOU.exe and unwise.exe) ... and report the results.
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tigre
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7. July 2003 @ 06:06 |
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To answer your question:
Quote:
Did you read the image using sub-q settings (data\audio)?
I have kept on trying since my 1st post. These settings I've used with CloneCD so far:
1.
[ ] Read Subchannel Data ...
[ ] Regenerate Data Sectors
2.
[x] Read Subchannel Data ...
[ ] Regenerate Data Sectors
3.
[ ] Read Subchannel Data ...
[x] Regenerate Data Sectors
Audio settings were left allone as the CD seems to contain no audio Session/Track. (Any faulty reasoning here?) So far I've only used max. reading speed as I wanted to check everything else before slowing down.
The results of all three trials were the same (using CloneCD's image mounter): The software installed from the virtual CD without complaining but the CD check on 1st program startup took forever so I had to kill it manually using task manager.
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Shoey
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7. July 2003 @ 13:48 |
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Any luck with YaTeS Protection Scanner to determine a definate cd protection. Did you "amplify weak sectors" in the write process? You might need the aid of emulation m8. Try install from dvd\cd and cdrw?
Shoey :)
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tigre
Moderator
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9. July 2003 @ 01:52 |
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Update(s):
First two questions:
1. Is using CloneCD's (or Alcohol120%'s) image mounter ok for testing or do I have to burn? I mean - If a mounted image doesn't work, can I be sure that a burned CD-R from the same image wouldn't work either?
2. If I have to burn: Can I use CD-RWs? I'd like to avoid wasting too many CD-Rs.
Results so far:
1. YaTeS doesn't find a protection
2. Swiss - Scout Easyscan doesn't either
3. I've installed the patch w/o problems but I don't see any running sheep (CloneCD 4.2.0.2) in task bar. Only a double CD symbol.
4. For the last CD-RW I burned for trying these settings were used (from .CCP file):
[CloneCD ReadPrefs]
ReadSubData=1
RegenerateData=1
ReadSubAudio=0
AbortOnReadError=0
FastErrorSkip=0
ReadSpeedData=4
ReadSpeedAudio=0
IntelligentBadSectorScan=1
SectorSkip=100
NoErrorReport=0
FirstSessionOnly=0
AudioQuality=0
[CloneCD WritePrefs]
DontRepairSubchannelData=1
AlwaysCloseLastSession=1
AmplifyWeak=1
WriteSpeed=4
Result: The same again. Installation works but running the program not.
5. Weird: CloneCD can erase my (Octron 4-10x) CD-RWs but can't write afterwards as it thinks the disks are not empty (same with Nero + EAC). I guess my Plextor 121032A and the media don't like each other ...
6. Shoey: Is "sub-q settings" = "Read Subchannel Data" or is there another option I've missed or that is not accessible with my drive?
7. I'm despaired and need something that helps me to forget so I think I'll try Alcohol next. ;)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. July 2003 @ 01:53
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Shoey
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9. July 2003 @ 13:40 |
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tigre,
I took some time to search the cd image you're trying to backuo (Mediscript 2 Staatsexman). I found one thread on a forum where one individual was attempting to backup a cd that is literally identical to what you're backing up. One mod "thought" the cd protection was Laserlock, another mod "thought" it might be Starforce v1\2. Both mods recommended using Alcohol 120% with different datatype settings.
So basically this will be trial and error attempting to make a working backup (blah). First install Alcohol 120%>options>general>display>enable minimize Alcohol 120% window. Now go to reading and set data position measurement to high. Go to recording and enable overburn. Go to emulation and enable ignore media type and RMPS (Recordable Media Physical Signature). Go to extra emulation and enable Laserlock emulation. Go to virtual drives and se to whatever you desire. Delete your image you made with CloneCD . Open Alcohol 120% and click image making wizard and choose the Starforce v1\2 datatype profile and read at 16x. Read the RMPS at 1x. After reading the image, minimize Alcohol 120% to system tray (startup) and go to your virtual stealth drive and mount the image and see if you can play(emulate) the backup m8. If this works you can burn to a cd-r or cd-rw (unformatted) but you need Alcohol 120% to play the backup
Shoey :)
Asus K8N nVidia nForce3 Pro 250 GB, Athlon 64 3200+, Hitachi 80 gig SATA 150, Corsair XMS 1 gig PC4000, ATI Radeon Saphire 9600 Pro (256 DDR), Windows XP Pro (64 Bit),Lite-ON SOHD 167T,, Plextor PX-712SA,BenQ 1640.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. July 2003 @ 13:43
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tigre
Moderator
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10. July 2003 @ 00:35 |
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Shoey, Thanks alot for the effort. I followed your instructions and it ... well sometimes ... works now. Let me describe it:
When the program is "installed" from the original CD and started with the original CD in the drive The message "Please wait! CD is being checked..." appears (screenshots: http://www.geocities.com/t16re/stuff.html - sorry, inserting pics from geocities seems not to work) for a few seconds, then the program starts without asking for the registration code.
Installation from the mounted image works fine as usual, but when starting the program "Please wait! CD is being checked..." appears for > 30 seconds, and "No valid CD found. Do you want to enter the Code again?" next. After entering the code "New CD code is stored. Please restart the program." appears.
This is repeated a few times (1-4 so far), then the program decides to run. I've tried 3 times so far and I've got the impression that the number of unsuccessful trials increases.
I'll try to find out if something is written in registry / files during unsuccessful trials using Total Uninstall and will report here.
Does it make any sense to try Laserlock profile or other emulation options?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. July 2003 @ 09:10
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tigre
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10. July 2003 @ 01:02 |
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Update:
You said that one mod in another forum "thought" it could be Laserlock. From Alcohol120%'s Laserlock profile I assume that Laserlock uses bad sectors (or even rings of bad sectors). Well, that's the case with an 2 year old version of the same CD (this one even worked with VirtualCd V 3.x), but the new version I'm talking about doesn't seem to contain any bad sectors at all (e.g. ClonyXXL didn't report bad sectors).
I think success isn't far away...
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tigre
Moderator
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10. July 2003 @ 09:26 |
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Update2:
I re-installed multiple times and tried to monitor installation and the program running with Total Uninstall. No useful results (e.g. registry changes that could be changed back manually ...). All in all I started the program ~ 100 times, ~ 10 times the program started successfully. It seems like Alcohol's emulation returns some kind of random data to the program when it checks the CD - sometimes it's satisfied, but in 90% of cases it's not. (Or the program checks different parts of the CD on each startup...) As this is still not as it should be I did some trial-and-error messing with Alcohol's options but no improvement so far. Any more ideas?
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Shoey
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11. July 2003 @ 00:20 |
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Quote:
10 times the program started successfully
From the backup made with Alcohol 120% or the original?
If so did you try the backup from your dvd\cd-rom? (enable all emulation)
Try backing up to a cdrw?
Shoey :)
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tigre
Moderator
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11. July 2003 @ 03:08 |
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The program started 10 out of 100 successfully from Alcohol120% Virtual Drive, Alcohol running in the background. So I'll create a CD-R from it an will see if it works.
__________________________
Edit: IT WORKS!!!
I've burned A CD-R with Alcohol120% (Starforce 1.x/2.x profile). Running Alcohol in background, all emulation options enabled (besides "Launch CD/DVD Mangager without "ignore ...") the program started successfully 4 times in a row so far. The CD check on startup takes still much longer than with the original CD but finally the program starts.
Thanks alot!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. July 2003 @ 03:28
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Shoey
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11. July 2003 @ 06:27 |
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IT WORKS!!!
Damn I'm good (just kiddin' tigre). I just had a "gut" feeling the cd protection was most likely Starforce v.1\2 or possibly 3. Another test you might wan't to do is use BlindWrite Suite 4.5, create a bwa file using both drives make a backup and see if you can play without any emulation. if you wan't to give it a go let me know tigre. Glad to hear your backup is working m8!
Shoey :)
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tigre
Moderator
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11. July 2003 @ 10:28 |
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Damn, you're good! 
Sure, why not give blindread/write a try. I haven't used it for years so help is appreciated. I'll start right now.
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tigre
Moderator
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11. July 2003 @ 15:26 |
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EDIT:
I wanted to test if I could create a CD-R working without emulation using Blindwrite, but I've just realized that the CD created by Alcohol120% (needing emulation) in fact is named "NEEDS EMULATION" and contains a folder GK3_303, while the original CD is named GK3_303 itself. Erroreously I tried to create a blindwrite image from this CD-R created with Alcohol, but this didn't work. As I don't have the original with me this weekend I can't test the Blindwrite method right now.
BTW: Meanwhile I've found a recommendation how to defeat Starforce3 using Blindwrite + Alcohol in german CloneCD forum:
http://www.clonecd-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=636 (German)
I'll try that next (hopefully on monday).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. July 2003 @ 02:29
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Shoey
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12. July 2003 @ 07:05 |
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Asus K8N nVidia nForce3 Pro 250 GB, Athlon 64 3200+, Hitachi 80 gig SATA 150, Corsair XMS 1 gig PC4000, ATI Radeon Saphire 9600 Pro (256 DDR), Windows XP Pro (64 Bit),Lite-ON SOHD 167T,, Plextor PX-712SA,BenQ 1640.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. July 2003 @ 07:14
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tigre
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13. July 2003 @ 10:35 |
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I did it ex-act-ly as described, using the C2H5OH120% emulated CD-R as source but the resulting CD-RW didn't work. Same when using a BWA converted from C2H5OH120% MDS. I'll try with the original as source tomorrow.
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Shoey
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14. July 2003 @ 09:50 |
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Using the "modified" backup (mds file added or converted to bwa file) then burned won't work tigre. We need the original cd, then bwa file creation, then burn. You create 2 backups m8, a "install disc" (no bwa file) and a "play disc" (bwa file). After making the backups you use the "install disc" to install (obviously), then hopefully your backup "play disc" will launch from either your dvd\cd-rom or burner.
Uninstall Alcohol 120% for your BlindWrite Suite backup testing.
Shoey :)
Asus K8N nVidia nForce3 Pro 250 GB, Athlon 64 3200+, Hitachi 80 gig SATA 150, Corsair XMS 1 gig PC4000, ATI Radeon Saphire 9600 Pro (256 DDR), Windows XP Pro (64 Bit),Lite-ON SOHD 167T,, Plextor PX-712SA,BenQ 1640.
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tigre
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15. July 2003 @ 01:04 |
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Nope. It doesn't work reliably.
I did it (almost) as you described.
"Almost" because installing never has been a problem (and the files/registry settings found by Total Uninstall were the same, no matter which CD/CD-R(W)/virtual drive I used for installing). So I didn't create an extra installation CD without BWA file. The rest I did as you told me.
The result is the same as using Alcohol Virtual Drive + Alcohol's image. In a few cases starting the program works, in most cases it doesn't.
Q1: Does it really make a difference to use an extra install CD without BWA? - Why?
Q2: What about "Authorize the use of alternative read method" setting. Should I try?
Q3: About MDA/BWS files: I've created 3 different files (all from original CD). One with Alcohol 120%, one with BW4.2.5, one with BW(newest version). All lines are parallel and bend (0/40; 50k/30; 100k/25; 150k/23; 200k/20.5 ... - <Sector>/<Linear density>); but
- the BW lines contain 1 or 2 small "drop down" peaks, with "linear density" lowered by ~10, but the peaks of both BW versions don't match, they seem to be at random positions.
- When zooming in the alcohol line looks smoothed, the BW lines do a random "zig-zag movement" arround the alcohol line.
Should I re-try with other BWA/MDS files/settings?
Q4: Is it a problem to use erases CD-RWs for this or are "fresh" media necessary?
Q5: Should I try the newest version of BW additionally?
Q6: Does trying DAO Pq writing mode make any sense?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. July 2003 @ 06:26
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Shoey
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15. July 2003 @ 13:06 |
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Quote:
Q1: Does it really make a difference to use an extra install CD without BWA? - Why?
Yes it does simply because we're tyring the SecuROM 4.8.x backup method and many dvd\cd-roms& burners can't bypass the Twinsector cd scheme of the SecuROM cd protection but this doesn't apply to you m8. So one is advised to create an "install disc" (no bwa file) and an "play disc" (bwa file). This method is also endorsed by the BlindWrite Suite team.
Quote:
Q2: What about "Authorize the use of alternative read method" setting. Should I try?
This method is the opposite of reading sub-q channel (data\audio) and I don't believe trying this method will work for what you're attempting to backup.
Quote:
Q3: About MDA/BWS files: I've created 3 different files (all from original CD). One with Alcohol 120%, one with BW4.2.5, one with BW(newest version). All lines are parallel and bend (0/40; 50k/30; 100k/25; 150k/23; 200k/20.5 ... - <Sector>/<Linear density>); but
- the BW lines contain 1 or 2 small "drop down" peaks, with "linear density" lowered by ~10, but the peaks of both BW versions don't match, they seem to be at random positions.
- When zooming in the alcohol line looks smoothed, the BW lines do a random "zig-zag movement" arround the alcohol line.
Should I re-try with other BWA/MDS files/settings?
I've had my best luck with the BWA Builder (bwa file) and BlindWrite Suite 4.25 (backing up SecuROM 4.8.x). I recently tried the Twin Creator (created by Alcohol 120% Team) that is included in Alcoholer 4.x. I had nightmares and gave up on my 4th attempt. Not every bwa, mda file will work and that is why i advised early on to create 2 bwa files, 1 with your Plexy and 1 with your dvd\cd-rom. if you're going to retry, my advise is to stick with BlindWrite Suite 4.25 and try reading the original cd using the BAW Builder reading at 1x.
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Q4: Is it a problem to use erases CD-RWs for this or are "fresh" media necessary?
I don't use cdrw's so I honestly don't have a rock solid "right" answer. I read at forums not to copy beyond 3 "formats", simply toss that pne in da trash can and grab ye another...?
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Q6: Does trying DAO Pq writing mode make any sense?
No it doesn't but I believe it is the equivilent of RAO DAO. The pw= patin coffin.
Shoey :)
Asus K8N nVidia nForce3 Pro 250 GB, Athlon 64 3200+, Hitachi 80 gig SATA 150, Corsair XMS 1 gig PC4000, ATI Radeon Saphire 9600 Pro (256 DDR), Windows XP Pro (64 Bit),Lite-ON SOHD 167T,, Plextor PX-712SA,BenQ 1640.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. July 2003 @ 13:08
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tigre
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17. July 2003 @ 03:00 |
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Thanks for your detailed replys, Shoey!
I've tried exactly what you recommended but no success. I'll try on another PC (2 more drives) - but if this doesn't work either I'll give up (It works with Alcohol Emulation - and that's enuff for me - the rest is curiosity).
FYI: The copy protection IS Starforce.
One time when I tried to run the program from another copied CD there were some instabilities due to switching Alcohol emulation on/off and there was some kind of message "StarForce ... blah ... Virus detected ..." So I searched all files on the CD with an HEX editor and found some "StarForce"s.
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maltman
Newbie
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30. July 2003 @ 10:57 |
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Hi tigre, hi Shoey
I followed your dialog with interest. I`ve got the same problem like tigre. I tried to follow your steps but every time the prog starts I have to reenter the serial. The prog itself never opened yet.
tigre: Waht did you do to make the prog finally work (as posted 11 Jul 2003 7:08 AM)
You can also write in German to walz@directbox.com
Thank you very much....
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Shoey
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30. July 2003 @ 13:27 |
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I'm convinced that if you create a working mdf or bwa file the backup will work (without asking for the serial over& over). Download Alcoholer 4.x& patch. After installing open Alcoholer and go to settings>untick "load last ClonyXXL". Now look at the profile for Starforce v.1/2 then Starforce v.3 Notice one profile is different from the other? I would read the image with sub-q>read pregap area>data position measurement high (1x) and bypass efm error (if your burner isn't a "2 sheep burner". Read the image at 8x and save as .ccd (CloneCD format) . When finished , launch Alcoholer and run TwinCreator. Leave the options as default and patch the image file. Now open Alcohol 120% and use the SecuROM *new* datatype profile to burn the patched image at 8x (RAW DAO). Before burning you'll be warned that the image size doesn't match the lead-out specified in the toc and you'll be given three burning options. The first option is correct: "Keep TOC as on source cd, write until end of image file". Now try and play the backup in your dvd\cd-rom. This is trial and error as you may have to create more than 1 mdf file. if the backup fails then read the image from another drive.
Alcoholer 4x:http://www.alcoholer.com/
Note than you can download Alcoholer 4.x that comes with ClonyXXL. To locate ClonyXXL go to the directory to where you installed Alcoholer 4.x Example: C:\Program Files\Alcoholer\ClonyXXL. Copy& paste ClonyXXL to your desktop.
Shoey :)
Asus K8N nVidia nForce3 Pro 250 GB, Athlon 64 3200+, Hitachi 80 gig SATA 150, Corsair XMS 1 gig PC4000, ATI Radeon Saphire 9600 Pro (256 DDR), Windows XP Pro (64 Bit),Lite-ON SOHD 167T,, Plextor PX-712SA,BenQ 1640.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. July 2003 @ 13:32
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maltman
Newbie
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31. July 2003 @ 01:26 |
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Shoey, thank you for your fast reply.
I tried to do exactly what you wrote but there are still problems.
I used Alcoholer 4.0b & patch to modify the settings and Alcohol 120% 1.4.3 for making images.
After starting Alcohol 120% by Alcoholer I can't make the image beacuse I get this (Alcohol120%)error:
Cannot change Visible in OnShow or OnHide.
So I changed all Settings in Alchol120% manually. This schould work either, or not ?
Quote:
save as .ccd (CloneCD format)
In Alcohol, I got only the possibility to make .mds files. I can't change to .cdd. There is only .mds !
Was it really your intention to use Alcohol 120& ?
Quote:
Before burning you'll be warned that the image size doesn't match the lead-out specified in the toc and you'll be given three burning options. The first option is correct: "Keep TOC as on source cd, write until end of image file".
I do NOT get this error. I works error free.
Finally I have to reenter the code but the prog didn't start.
I have downloaded the newest version of Alcohol 120& now. Does it make a difference ?
I also got Blindwrite. Shall we give them a try ?
Thnks, maltman
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Shoey
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31. July 2003 @ 02:36 |
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Quote:
After starting Alcohol 120% by Alcoholer I can't make the image beacuse I get this (Alcohol120%)error:
Don't use Alcoholer to launch Alcohol 120%, do it manually m8.
Quote:
save as .ccd (CloneCD format)
After you insert your SecuROM 4.8.x protected image, click image burning wizard>next. Look to the right where it says image file format and change to CloneCD (.ccd)>next.
Quote:
Before burning you'll be warned that the image size doesn't match the lead-out specified in the toc and you'll be given three burning options. The first option is correct: "Keep TOC as on source cd, write until end of image file".
Are you 100% sure the mdf. or bwa file is tucked inside the folder where you saved the image of the SecuROM 4.8.x protected image?
Shoey :)
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