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LABELS ON DVD+R DISCS
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hiberian
Junior Member
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6. February 2007 @ 11:43 |
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I have been a bad boy. I started burning discs about 2 years ago. Being new to the disc world (having gratuated after many years of videotaping) I was a novice. I wanted my discs of burned movies to look really cool and nice, just like some of those store bought ones. So I went out and bought myself a CD Stomper, a couple boxes of Stomper CD Labels, loaded up the Click & Design program and proceeded to make some really nice lables. They looked great on my DVD's. But, alas, my DVD's stuck, pixlelated, froze, skipped and did almost everything bad that a DVD could do. I couldnt watch my movies, nor could anybody else. By this time I had labled more than 200 of them! I came to the AfterDawn forum and soon learned the error of my ways: LABELS ON DVD'S ARE A BIG 'NO NO". Additionally, I was using some of those brands that are just not up to standard: TDK, Memorex, FUJI even Philips to match my DVD recorder. None seemed to work well. I have long since switched exclusively to Vebatim and have nary a problem. Of course some of the older DVD players still wont play my movies but that is not because of a lable or media problem, at least not what I have read in these forums. Ok, to cut to the chase, and here is my problem and request for assistance: Does anyone have a way to remove the lables that I stupidly put on so that I can save my movies and watch them? I have dabbed denatured rubbing alcohol on them and carefully scrapped the labels off. That seems to work ok, although it is a very labor intensive process. I even use the alcohol to clean the discs of fingerprints and smudges, always cleaning out, never in a circle (now I will probably get a response that using alcohol is a big "NO NO"}. Unless someone can come up with a better method, I guess I will continue that process. Or, does anyone know if I submerge the disc in a dish of alcohol will it destroy the layers somehow and make the disc unuseable? I presume these layers are glued together or is it a different process that would be unaffected by being submerged in alcohol? So, any suggestions would really be appreciated. Thanks
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. February 2007 @ 11:55 |
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Nothing wrong with using alcohol, but it ain't very good at removing glue residue.
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hiberian
Junior Member
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6. February 2007 @ 12:14 |
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Using the alcohol seems to take everything that I can see off the disc and the disc seems to play ok. U mean there is still some invisible glues residue left on it? Should I use something other than alcohol then? Think submerging the discs will separate the layers?
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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6. February 2007 @ 12:56 |
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Use the alcohol only on the upper layer where the label is. Take off as much paper/glue as you can, then copy the disc to another disc. The removal of the majority of the paper may return the disc to its proper shape, but it will remain unsightly. That doesn't matter if you transfer the data.
Do NOT submerge the discs in anything. There is a gap between the layers around the centering ring, and if solvents get in there they may affect the bonding agent.
You may as well consider the labeled discs as "destroyed" but recoverable. Transfer the data, verify the recorded disc, then toss the original.
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. February 2007 @ 15:06 |
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Believe it or not you can easily remove those label's. At least I did and here is how I did it. First let me say I learned about this on here a couple of years ago and figured I had nothing to loose if I tried it.
- I got the wifes big salad bowl
- Poured a bunch of "Goo-Be-Gone" into the bowl
- And just dumped in 10 DVD's right into the Goo-Be-Gone
- I let it sit about 30min
- Came back wiped off the DVD's and they where good to go!
This really works and no harm to the data on the disk what so ever
My Guides--------->http://webpages.charter.net/bacitup/
Newbies------------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/183136
Software ------->http://webpages.charter.net/bacitup/software.htm |
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hiberian
Junior Member
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6. February 2007 @ 15:49 |
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Thanks to all for the suggestions. I think burning new copies as soon as I get the labels off, as suggested by Joe Ryan, makes sense. But of course now I am looking at having to buy a couple hundred blanks plus invest the time to re-do them. But if that is what it takes to salvage and save them then I will give it just consideration. The Goo-Be-Gone method suggested by bbmayo is rather intriguing. I have never heard of Goo-Be-Gone so would have to look for it. It doesnt seem to matter if that Goo stuff gets in between the layers, as would submerging them like Joe Ryan states? Either way, that sounds really simple and a lot less expensive. Are u pulling my leg bb? Again thanks for the suggestions. At least I am better off than before I asked it.
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. February 2007 @ 23:00 |
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AfterDawn Addict
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7. February 2007 @ 04:04 |
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I'm not pulling your leg at all! I did about 50 discs with GooBeGone and they still play perfectly fine today. It is citrus based so I don't believe it will harm anything inbetween the layers. I just wouldn't leave the discs in there for hours just in case.
Good luck
Oh yeah and you can find that stuff just about anywhere WalMart, Kmart etc...
My bad it is called Goo Gone not Goo Be Gone :-)
My Guides--------->http://webpages.charter.net/bacitup/
Newbies------------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/183136
Software ------->http://webpages.charter.net/bacitup/software.htm
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. February 2007 @ 04:07
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hiberian
Junior Member
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7. February 2007 @ 14:46 |
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Thanks for the update, I will look for it and give it a try and report back.
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Shardel
Suspended permanently
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7. February 2007 @ 21:16 |
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Just read this post. If you have a Walmart close by, there is
another product that works really well and doesn't cost much. It
is called De-Solv-It. You will find it in the cleaning supply
section-in a spray bottle. It will remove label and all traces of
the glue. When done you need to wipe off the disc really well with
an absorbent rag. I not only use it to clean off labels and
glue, but also to clean off marker (even permanent marker) is I
want to change something I've written on a disc. Every disc I've
ever use it on plays like new. No need to reburn the info.
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. February 2007 @ 15:03 |
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I hope other sticker label users read this thread.After helping members out with playback issues,usually it's those sticker label users. Stand alone players will have a harder time with them.
If you want some nice looking labels,check out the Epson Stylus photo printers: R-200/R-220/240/300/320/340. Most stores like staples,office max,bestbuy,Sams Club,etc carry them. These print directly onto inkjet printable media and run around $80 for the basic R-220.
Inkjet printable media is definitely easier on stand alone players. The kicker with these epson printers,we get generic ink cartridges for under $15 for the entire set of 6. The shiny inkjet printable look fantastic:
If your printer ever dies,check out the epsons.
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!! |
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hiberian
Junior Member
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9. February 2007 @ 14:41 |
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I had heard of these and thot about getting one, but then I thot about the increased cost of printable blank discs, the ink and even the extra time it would take. Since I store my dvd's in dvd/cd binders, I just write the basic info on the disc with a Sharpie then print up kinda a jacket label for the sleeve. Is less expensive and I can usually download info on the flick from IMDB onto the Click N Design program that I used to use to make paper labels on. Works for me, but I am sure everyone has their own favorite way of doing it. I also have kept all the info on my collection (consisting of 1000 video tapes) that began 25 years ago with video tape, in an Excel spreadsheet. Now it is about 200 pages long and I keep it in a looseleaf binder so I know how to find the various tapes and discs I have collected over the years. But I have found that, unfortunately, many of my videos are deteriorating so now I am having to redo most of them onto DVD.
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. February 2007 @ 15:31 |
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Dvd backups may not last as long as what they say. Main reason-the organic dye that is used. I still have home vids on vhs that are from 1986 that are ok.
Printable media: The price came down a lot. Dash format is cheaper than the plus,if purchased off the web. Locally,most stores carry verbatim and maxell hitachi white/full hubs and run about 40 cents each.
The shiny's are nearly impossible to find locally,so the net is the usual purchase.These cost around 40 cents each for dash and double for plus format. Most are reg hubs,which leave out quite a bit of printed surface.Now there's full hub shiny and also white glossy's which should look very good. The reg full hub white are a matte finish.
I used to make complete case cover to go with the printed disc.That really sucked down the ink. Now I just print the disc,place it in a clear binder,and label the individual sleaves with a brother P touch labeler.This way when a disc disappears,I know exactly which sleave it goes in. My ordinary backups,a plain old sharpie does the trick on them, LOL.
The epson is just another option.Decent to great looking covers and perfect playback-if using quality printable media. The money I save from ink alone more than pays for the $50-$80 for the basic epson R-220.Staples have clearances on them from time to time.
The set of 6 ink carts at staples,walmart,etc runs about $80. I pay $15 a set,and I've seen them as low as $12 a set at supermediastore,rima,and meritline.com during specials.
Good luck with the de-labeling.
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hiberian
Junior Member
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9. February 2007 @ 18:57 |
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Thanks for the latest info on media and epson printers. I get my ink refilled at a local place called Cartridge World and havent had a bad batch yet. They refill the HP black cartridges for $15 and the Color for $24 so I think that is pretty reasonable. Plan to go out in the next few days and look for that Goo Gone and/or De-Solv It at Walmart or Home Depot. Will let u know how it works out. All in all, a lot of work ahead to re-lable all that stuff. And about those videotapes I was making back in 1975, particularly those of family stuff, they have really gotten dark, color is running and generally not much left of them to save. And I was using quality Scotch tape back then on the state-of-the art machines at the time, first U-Matics using 1/2 tape costing $25 for 60 min, then graduating to the 2 hr machines (JVC) then the 2-4 hr machines (RCA) then the 2-4-6 with Panasonic, Mitsubishi and others utilizing the latest and greatest. Have kept the tapes in an enclosed cabinet(s) free of dust and weather extremes. So I thot that the only way to save what I had was to go to DVD's and I hope they last longer than the videotape, although you have had other experiences with it.
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. February 2007 @ 19:28 |
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I graduated HS in 1985. Original vhs movies were over $100 back then.God I'm getting old, LOL. I can still remember the larger laser discs!!!!
I got my first RCA huge camcorder in 1986 and cost $1300. Now I'm down to a $250 8 mm sharp view cam that I got in the late 90's.
$450 for my first toshiba vcr- around 1986/1987
$350 for my first RCA dvd player and those cleaning discs ruined her.
Quit posting and start scraping, LOL. Goo-Gone is the way I'd go. I heard lots of good things about that product. Get them off and maybe we can help you salvage some of those discs-crc errors, UGGH!
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hiberian
Junior Member
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10. February 2007 @ 14:29 |
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Ok, enough of my ramblings. One last, unrelated item: I notice I am a Junior Member, and others are Senior Members. How do I graduate to Senior Membership? And dont say by stop asking stupid questions!
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AfterDawn Addict
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10. February 2007 @ 14:59 |
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For every post,you go up 1 for your total count,except in the safety valve. Posts don't count in that forum. I tried to find the exact post count and what level they are but came out with squat.
You've got newbie,member,junior member,senior member,and addict.
I know it takes 500 posts to reach Senior member and 2500 posts to make addict. It may not occur exactly when you reach that post count,but within a few weeks after those milestones.
Go to your account and it'll tell you how many posts you got-just like this.
You have posted 5565 messages to our discussion forums since you created your account on 9 October 2004.
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!!
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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13. February 2007 @ 15:19 |
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hiberian--
I doubt that your video tapes have gone bad. The symptoms you describe are VCR symptoms, not tape symptoms. Video is FM-encoded analogue signals on magnetic particles. Color can't run or fade as they do in photographs, but the picture can get darker if the RF values from the magnetic head decline when it gets clogged with debris. The Scotch VHS tapes in the early 1990s had the lowest head wear of all video tapes, but that was accomplished partly with lots of lubricants that could fill a head gap. Cleaning the heads might help a great deal. The BASF VHS tapes of the same period used a harder magnetic particle that wore heads faster than the Scotch tapes for the first 70 hours or so, then settled down to slow, uniform wear with very little deposit and no damage to gap edges. Running fast forward and fast reverse with a BASF VHS tape may clean the junk out of your head with little risk of damage to the head gaps. Your tapes may end up looking a lot better.
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Member
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14. February 2007 @ 08:16 |
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Ah so the rumors I heard about BASF tapes at the time were true - they wear out the heads. People said not to buy them for that reason...
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hiberian
Junior Member
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14. February 2007 @ 08:54 |
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Thanks for the info. Too bad I didnt know all this 30 years ago and on when I was using videotape like crazy. Even using up to 6 VCR's at one point I was doing so much recording. I liked Scotch tape but years ago they stopped producing 1/2 tape for home use and I went on to other brands. Even BASF, but not for the head cleaning qualities but because they came in 6 1/2 hr (130min) mode tapes at the time. I still have 4 VCR's left and while they are getting old, a couple, with the flying erase heads, seem to be working ok. But just in case, I will run the Scotch head cleaner thru them to try to clean them up a bit and then check the smearing, darkening and color retention levels on those tapes made back in the 70's. Thanks for the info. New item, if anyone is reading this far regarding labels on DVD's. Have gone and bought the Goo Gone and will try it out any day now and see how it works. Will report back on the results.
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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15. February 2007 @ 11:18 |
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Altercuno--
No, the rumors were untrue. Chromium dioxide pigment is composed of very uniform crystals that are perfectly shaped, like long glass rods. That makes them easy to disperse in a coating and to align physically on a tape. They are harder than ferric or ferric-cobalt pigments; so a new head with its uneven finished surface loses some of the rough finish when running chrome tape for the first 70 hours or so. That is headwear that polishes the surface. After that, the headwear is extremely small, and the gap stays perfectly shaped. The 3M tape filled the gap with lubricants over time even because there was so little wear. At about 1,000 hours the heads running 3M tape had to be burnished to bring the RF values up to spec, and the burnishing brought the total headwear to a level slightly GREATER than that of heads running BASF that had no drop in RF at all over 1,000 hours because the tape kept the head clean. Other pigments with low headwear eroded the gap over time, and those heads had to be burnished also. So the longest lasting professional VCRS were ones that used either BASF tape or 3M tape. With BASF, though, the RF values stayed constant over the 4,500 to 6,000 hours the heads lasted; and QA people preferred a constant RF over time rather than a drop, burnishing, and a drop again over the life of the heads.
All video heads were ferrite. Chromium dioxide on softer heads such as metal or permalloy wore the heads LESS than cobalt-ferric tape. The surface wear was greatest on hard heads. In all cases, the gap stayed pristine over time; and it is the gap distance and uniformity that determines the integrity of the magnetic flux and, concomitantly, the integrity of the recording.
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Member
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15. February 2007 @ 11:45 |
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Thanks Joe - I always look out for you on a thread because your very informative...
Regards
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hiberian
Junior Member
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16. February 2007 @ 07:05 |
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Wow, am not sure I fully comprehended the technical aspects of what Joe had to say but I am sure they meant something to the professional. I, as just Joe Public, wouldnt have known about any of this and had I known or had video magazines of that era told me about the benefits of BASF I probably would have used it exclusively. Its all rather moot now since I have switched over the burning DVD's. Is there something I should know about this media, other than the fact that I have had it impressed upon me the use of only certain media to use (Verbatim, Maxell, something called something like Toyo something, etc.). I dont want to be down the road another 20 years and find out I messed up again or missed out on doing the right thing.
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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19. February 2007 @ 09:11 |
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The most important thing to know about DVDs is that the quality of the recording must be good in the first place so that the error rates are low from the start (They creep up over time as the integrity of the marks made by the recording laser deteriorates.) Good recordings mean using good discs, a good drive compatible with those discs, a suitable recording speed, and correct software and computer settings. Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim make good discs that are generally the most compatible with drives (although Taiyo Yuden's recent 16X DVD+R media-late to market-are showing some compatibility problems). There are other good discs on the market that take a great deal of abuse mostly because they are not intially compatible with drives and only become compatible after firmware updates include them after the drives have been on the market and some users have decreed them as "garbage." CMC is a notable example, but they have additional problems in that they appear to sell off-grade product to no-name brands rather than destroy them. People who get less-than-ideal CMC product then assume all CMC products in other brands--HP, Imation, Memorex, Maxell, Philips, TDK, and other--are necessarily poor. CMC actually produces most of the Verbatim DVD product; so they know a thing or two about quality production even if the marketing of off-grade product hurts them.
In general, test a DVD brand on your drive after recording it to get an idea of the recording quality. Scans are helpful even if they cannot be relied on for accurate test data. A scan will at least tell you if the disc and drive you are checking are compatible. Look at the bottom surface of the disc after recording to see if black dots appear in places. They indicate either defects in the disc or a bad mark due to transient debris on the disc where the laser creates a "shadow" past the debris. If everthing looks OK, store the disc away from heat and humidity when not in use. Do not use paper labels on the disc. Use a scan to check the discs after 6 months, a year, and two years to see if the error rates remain stable. They will have increased over time, but the increase should be small. If the errors show a dramatic increase at any point, copy the data to another disc. This procedure should guarantee disc information lasting decades.
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hiberian
Junior Member
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19. February 2007 @ 10:37 |
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Thanks, Joe, Very informative and useful information. I usually follow most of what u said and I always scan a burned disc immediately after it is burned. I put the burned DVD in my player and using the fast scan run thru the entire disc. I have caught a few that hung up, re-did them and they came out fine. Altho, I just did THE DEPARTED, using DL Verbatim discs and it played generally fine, hanging up in a few places and skipping about 5 min each time before it started up again. I wrote it at 8X using my Roxio software since I cannot get CloneDVD2 to work using any DL media. I have posed this question a few times both on here and the SlySoft Forum but have found no corrective response. Has anybody out there had problems with CloneDVD and DL? Or run into the problem I have described elsewhere in this forum (or was it the Slysoft one?) about the media not being large enough to hold the written movie. It has me stumped and perhaps others as well since everyone seems to have given up on trying to figure out why the problem exists. I have taken screen shots of each CloneDVD screen as I loaded and burned the movie to show exactly how I have the settings but I cant figure out how to get those pics in a forum thread so that others could see exactly what I have done and perhaps offer me some help. Anyone know how I can accomplish that? I presently have the whole story in Word document complete with the screen pics. Thanks to all out there for any assistance.
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