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hdmi or 5.1 analog???
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shabre
Junior Member
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11. April 2007 @ 16:28 |
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hello, in your opinon... which will sound better HDMI audio or 5.1 analog audio? I am looking at the Toshiba xa2 HD DVD player, but my reciever has the 5.1 analog inputs but not HDMI. Should I invest in a new a/v reciver?
Thank you for your time!
Shane
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error5
Senior Member
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11. April 2007 @ 18:05 |
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I've had the Toshiba HD-A1 connected to an older Marantz SR6300 thru 5.1 analogs. Now I've upgraded to the Toshiba HD-XA2 connected by HDMI to a newer Marantz 6001. I would say that the difference between the two audio setups is hardly noticeable with a slight advantage to the XA2 -> HDMI -> 6001. I haven't really tried comparing analog and digital on my current setup. I'll try doing a comparison this weekend.
One thing to point out though: Some XA2 owners have reported a bug in the player where "the XA2 puts out inordinately low LFE volumes when playing the new HD sound formats over the analog outs." A very informative discussion of this issue can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthrea...37&page=1&pp=30
Panasonic PT-AE3000 1080p Projector//Carada 110" Criterion High Contrast Grey 16:9 Screen//Oppo BDP-83SE//Toshiba HD-XA2
Classe SSP800 Processor//Classe CA-5200 5 Channel Amplifier//Classe CA-2200 2 Channel Amplifier
Bowers & Wilkins 802D L-R/HTM 1D Center/SCMS Surrounds/JL Audio Fathom f113 x 2
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. April 2007 @ 18:11
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shabre
Junior Member
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12. April 2007 @ 05:28 |
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Thank you for the excellent information. I am real curious at the results your comarison will yield this weekend. As far as the LFE, excellent information thru the link. I have a sub woofer calibration cd that I will use when I get the xa2 this upcoming week from Amazon.
Thank you again
Warm regards,
Shane
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gerry1
Suspended permanently
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12. April 2007 @ 05:32 |
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@shabre...Wierd as it sounds, I both agree and disagree with error55. A good 75% or the movies you watch will sound better through the HDMI audio (or optical or coax) ... they don't put a lot of effort into the 5.1 analog because its extremely expensive to record six totally seperate sounds tracks as opposed to digital decoding or processing. In high budget movies like the Star Wars movies and other big budget flicks, the 5.1 analog beats the sound of HDMI, optical etc. by leaps and bounds because there is no decoding or sound processing involved but rather six totally seperate and individual sound tracks created for maximum effect. My DVD player and receiver are capable of both and I have both connected (some people don't connect the 5.1 analog even if they have it because of a perception that the "digital" is better by virtue of "high tech" and this simply isn't true). Try flicks like Saving Private Ryan, Stars Wars and other big budget flicks in both and you'll see what I mean. I switch between the two depending on the movie.
Secondly, just because your AVR doesn't have HDMI doesn't mean that its not capable of digital sound ... what is the make and model of the receiver?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. April 2007 @ 05:34
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error5
Senior Member
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12. April 2007 @ 05:43 |
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Good points gerry1. As a clarification I was referring to HD-DVD's with Dolby TruHD soundtracks (Superman Returns, Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, etc). Without an HDMI receiver the only way you can get DolbyTruHD is thru 5.1 analog. I think shabre was referring to this issue in his original post.
Panasonic PT-AE3000 1080p Projector//Carada 110" Criterion High Contrast Grey 16:9 Screen//Oppo BDP-83SE//Toshiba HD-XA2
Classe SSP800 Processor//Classe CA-5200 5 Channel Amplifier//Classe CA-2200 2 Channel Amplifier
Bowers & Wilkins 802D L-R/HTM 1D Center/SCMS Surrounds/JL Audio Fathom f113 x 2
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gerry1
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12. April 2007 @ 06:13 |
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@error5...I see what you mean.
@Shane ... I probably needn't tell you this but the calibration of your sub depends on what you're using as your fronts. If your using sats like so many do these days, they MUST route the lower frequencies to the sub and that changes everything. If such is the case, your sub MUST handle both the LFE and the lower frequencies of the mains; there is no way around it.
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shabre
Junior Member
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12. April 2007 @ 07:27 |
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I do have the coax and optical audio. And, I also agree.... digital does not mean it always sounds better, kinda like I belive that the old lp records sound more pure and rich than digital! Error5, you are correct... I was reffering to the Dolby true hd sound. Do either one of you know what DTS HD (core only) means? That was the description on the Toshiba xa2 model.
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gerry1
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12. April 2007 @ 07:46 |
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shabre
Junior Member
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12. April 2007 @ 07:53 |
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yea, I know... just wasn't sure which correct forum to post the question again. I will not do so in the future :0
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eatsushi
Senior Member
3 product reviews
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12. April 2007 @ 08:39 |
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Good discussion.
First off, the XA2 LFE bug only happens with Dolby TruHD soundtracks and apparently shows up only on certain receivers. I have the Denon AVR-2105 and my XA2 is connected by 5.1 analogs. I don't hear the diminished LFE bug in my setup. Playback of regular DVD's won't show the LFE bug so using a subwoofer calibration disc may not solve the problem with TruHD soundtracks. There's also word out that this bug will be fixed in the May firmware update.
What DTS HD Core only audio means is that the player is capable of decoding DTS HD sound at up to 1.5 Mbits/second. It's not limited to the DTS of regular DVD's which is only at 768kbps. Full resolution DTS HD gives you a maximum of 7.1 channels at 3 Mbps on HD-DVD's and 6 Mbps on BluRay. DTS HD Core decoding is optional in HD DVD players so its a good feature to have in the XA2.
"The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate."
-Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Home Entertainment Feb 19, 2008
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. April 2007 @ 08:48
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shabre
Junior Member
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12. April 2007 @ 09:22 |
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very good discussion indeed!
I just recieved a email from Toshiba stating the following...
Dear shane:
Thanks for writing!
That means it will do 5.1 surround only
orig. message I sent...hello, I am just curious what the following means... DTS® HD (core only) what does core only mean?
Pretty vague, but I like your answer better Eatsushi :-)
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eatsushi
Senior Member
3 product reviews
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12. April 2007 @ 09:35 |
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Originally posted by shabre:
That means it will do 5.1 surround only
In a way he's right. Like I said earlier, core only DTS HD will give you 1.5Mbps max but only at 5.1 channels. Full resolution DTS HD can go up to 7.1 channels at 3Mbps for HD DVD. He probably just wanted to give you the short version. ;)
"The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate."
-Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Home Entertainment Feb 19, 2008
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. April 2007 @ 09:39
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gerry1
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12. April 2007 @ 09:49 |
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I love these discussions; always something new to learn.
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eatsushi
Senior Member
3 product reviews
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12. April 2007 @ 12:05 |
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@error5: Congrats on getting the XA2 buddy. How do you like it so far? Were you able to get a good deal after the price reduction?
"The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate."
-Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Home Entertainment Feb 19, 2008
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eatsushi
Senior Member
3 product reviews
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12. April 2007 @ 13:39 |
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Speaking of updates, Toshiba just released today the 1.5 firmware update for the 2nd gen A2, XA2 and A20:
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/tacpassets-i...vd2firmware.asp
It doesn't seem to address the LFE bug but addresses some of the known playback issues. We'll keep an eye on the user forums for info on the LFE bug.
"The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate."
-Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Home Entertainment Feb 19, 2008
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shabre
Junior Member
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12. April 2007 @ 14:49 |
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That is a very nice feature with newer components, such as HD DVD players. You don't need to contact cust. service for issues and error messages. God bless Technology :0
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error5
Senior Member
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12. April 2007 @ 17:12 |
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Originally posted by eatsushi:
@error5: Congrats on getting the XA2 buddy. How do you like it so far? Were you able to get a good deal after the price reduction?
Thanks buddy. It's great so far and the performance of the Reon VX chip is as good as advertized. I got it at Value Electronics for $750.
http://www.fsiwebs.com/shopcart3/SC_Prod...JiUBf15jW_mVHM-
Panasonic PT-AE3000 1080p Projector//Carada 110" Criterion High Contrast Grey 16:9 Screen//Oppo BDP-83SE//Toshiba HD-XA2
Classe SSP800 Processor//Classe CA-5200 5 Channel Amplifier//Classe CA-2200 2 Channel Amplifier
Bowers & Wilkins 802D L-R/HTM 1D Center/SCMS Surrounds/JL Audio Fathom f113 x 2
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diabolos
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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12. April 2007 @ 22:39 |
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The DTS-HDMA umbrella explained:
http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/
Dolby TrueHD explained:
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD.html
My 2cents,
Quote:
I have also been reading that 5.1 analog has excellent sound for Dolby True HD. I mentioned in an earlier post that I compare it to a good lp record, which in my opinion sounds more crisp and natural than the digital cd's do.
It does but it is important to remember that your equipment plays a huge role in how something will sound. Uncompressed PCM is PCM no matter if it is being delivered via analog or digital connections but if your player has bad digital to analog converters (DAC) and/or your receiver also does then you will have a sound with a Total Harmonic Distortion (THD%) rate that is higher (which is a bad thing) that if you would have just let the receiver decode and preamp the PCM track by itself. Luck for you the Toshiba players have excellent analog outs. If the HD-XA2 is coupled with your THX certified receiver I don't predict any sound problems ahead.
As far as LPs vs. CDs I have read many articles expressing how the CD is better in many ways than the LP and vise versa. The main problem is that Music companies compress a lot of CDs (Not the Bit-Rate but the Dynamic Range which is much worse!). The CD has the ability to go higher and lower than the LP but because the Music is being compressed or the equipment is crappy the CD can sound less tantalizing than a typical LP. Grab a CD, SACD or DVD-A, and LP of a musical work that is rated highly for its musicality. I bet you won't hear a big difference. The SACD and DVD-A copies may even sound better than the LP. If you don't have an SACD or DVD-A player do yourself a favor and get one, if you love music.
Good posting everyone,
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. April 2007 @ 22:57
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error5
Senior Member
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13. April 2007 @ 03:41 |
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Thanks for the links Ced.
I think its important to point out the differences between DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS-HD High Resolution Audio as it pertains to the new HD formats and the DTS link explains it very well.
Panasonic PT-AE3000 1080p Projector//Carada 110" Criterion High Contrast Grey 16:9 Screen//Oppo BDP-83SE//Toshiba HD-XA2
Classe SSP800 Processor//Classe CA-5200 5 Channel Amplifier//Classe CA-2200 2 Channel Amplifier
Bowers & Wilkins 802D L-R/HTM 1D Center/SCMS Surrounds/JL Audio Fathom f113 x 2
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shabre
Junior Member
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13. April 2007 @ 04:29 |
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I agree with the SACD and DVD audio formats diabolos, I do have a player that will play the formats. It is too bad that the general public has not grasped both formats, it is a wonderful quality and delivers outstanding sound. I purchase my Speicalty cd's from online, being that my local Best Buy does not have much of a selection. Also, thank you for the links, they do explain them very well and detailed.
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dblbogey7
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. April 2007 @ 05:04 |
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Good discussion indeed.
Just a point of clarification: If a disc has a DTS HD Master Audio or DTS HD High Resolution Audio soundtrack, it still contains the "Core Only" data. So if you have a player like the XA2 that can decode "Core Only" it will extract this data from the main DTS HD soundtrack and transmit that at a maximum of 1.5 Mbps and 5.1 channels thru HDMI or analog.
If, for example, you upgrade in the future to a receiver that can decode DTS HD Master Audio or High Res Audio, you can send this to the receiver using the XA2's HDMI 1.3 port and get full resolution and 7.1 channels.
BTW, I have my XA2 connected by 5.1 analog to my Rotel preamp/processor and the Dolby TruHD soundtracks are outstanding.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. April 2007 @ 05:06
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eatsushi
Senior Member
3 product reviews
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13. April 2007 @ 07:52 |
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Hey dblbogey7 - haven't heard from you in a while. You're exactly right. The DTS HD High Resolution soundtrack will contain the Core Only component and this is the one that will be extracted by the XA2. Did you see the thread on avsforums about the upcoming Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 channel receiver that has HDMI 1.3 and can decode DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby Tru HD - all for $399?
"The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate."
-Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Home Entertainment Feb 19, 2008
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dblbogey7
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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14. April 2007 @ 05:16 |
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@eatsushi: Yes, I've read about the Onkyo. It should be a great choice for those who need Dolby TruHD and DTS-HDMA decoding on a budget. Just to point out - the $399 price is for preorders. It will retail for $499. Do you plan to upgrade your Denon receiver soon?
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diabolos
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14. April 2007 @ 17:04 |
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I can't believe that price point. It will be interesting reading reviews on how well it decodes lossless audio formats. There just has to be a catch (other than the output power). I wonder though, is there any advantage to doing the processing inside the receiver (especially a receiver half the price of the player outputting the signal)?
I feel the same way about 1080p@24fps pass though to a TV set that can only display 1080p@60fps anyway (and has video processors less than half as powerful as the outputting player). But I'm just splitting hairs now...
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. April 2007 @ 17:07
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error5
Senior Member
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15. April 2007 @ 05:59 |
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Well back to the original question: I did the HDMI to 5.1 analog comparison last night after looking all day for my audio cables. First off I didn't ancounter the LFE bug on the Marantz SR6001 using analog. Secondly, I must say that I don't hear any audible difference between the two at least on my system. I sampled the DolbyTru HD soundtracks on Troy, Superman Returns and The Departed. The burning plane scene in Superman Returns still results in deep but clearly detailed bass and overall soundfield quality is still there on both digital and analog connections.
I guess with the right system and with proper calibration there should be no significant difference between the two.
Panasonic PT-AE3000 1080p Projector//Carada 110" Criterion High Contrast Grey 16:9 Screen//Oppo BDP-83SE//Toshiba HD-XA2
Classe SSP800 Processor//Classe CA-5200 5 Channel Amplifier//Classe CA-2200 2 Channel Amplifier
Bowers & Wilkins 802D L-R/HTM 1D Center/SCMS Surrounds/JL Audio Fathom f113 x 2
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