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Finnish Christian Democrats want censorship for games
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 1 February, 2008
Finnish Christian Democratic Party wants preliminary inspection for video games. However, even though video games are not included in the Finnish law describing obligatory preliminary inspections, each of the games go through the PEGI (Pan European Game Information) classification. PEGI was designed in collaboration between game studios, child welfare, and other corresponding organizations.
... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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Staff Member
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1. February 2008 @ 09:51 |
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Finnish Christian Democratic Party
OK, well... let me just say that I'd also like to see a parental advisory sticker on every single bible in Finland then, as the book is by far one of the most terrifying and gruesome pieces of fiction to ever be given to children (my opinion, i'm not attacking anybody.. im attacking a book, an inanimate object).
I'm sorry if my comment is offensive, but in today's world the bible must be the biggest selling book of all time, yet what you read in it, you never would have expected to find in it. Before anybody says it, I know the differences between Old and New Testament but it doesn't change the text in the Old.
Both Bible and video games are marketed, the only difference is the violence depicted in video games comes under scrutiny while the violence permitted in the Bible doesn't to the same degree. Let's at least be fair!
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. February 2008 @ 10:13 |
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@Dela
I certainly don't want to start an argument. But, there are a few things i feel morally obligated to disagree with.
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as the book is by far one of the most terrifying and gruesome pieces of fiction to ever be given to children
I know this is your opinion, but i do not believe the Bible to be a work of fiction. My Dad is a Christian minister and i have grown up immersed in Bible, theology, and religion. I will not argue that parts of it can be gruesome. But no more than watching the nightly news.
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im attacking a book, an inanimate object).
The Bible is a book, an inanimate object, true; But, to believers, it is the inspired Word of God, and therefore carries with it a little more gravity than just another book.
As i said, i do not wish to start a fight, and i'm not attacking your opinions. Just stating as a believer, i felt morally obligated to contest those two things.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. February 2008 @ 10:15
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maryjayne
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1. February 2008 @ 10:28 |
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Arent video games expensive enough already? If the Christian Democrats get their way then I can defidently see an increase in game imports and piracy or at the very least a decrease in economy. People are going to look for other means to get their video games if they have to pay more.
Personally unless I have been on the edge of my seat for months waiting for a game, I will wait until a game has been released for a few months before purchasing it used or on eBay.
The Christian Democrats should be content with the warning labels already on games, and if they dont like what they see already on the packaging then dont buy the game!
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maryjayne
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1. February 2008 @ 10:30 |
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I just wanted to also note that most games already come with screenshots on the back packaging. You can pretty much tell how "holy" a game is by reading the description and looking at the pictures.
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hm577
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1. February 2008 @ 11:04 |
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I see no problem with ratings for games. There is no reason why ANYONE should have a problem with it................and if you do then go live with the penguins in Antarctica, away from civilization.
Censorship is a big problem though. However, they, IN NO WAY clarified this in the article so no one can pass a critical opinion YET. They need to address their idea of "censorship" because as far as I'm concerned (and most of the world too I'm sure), IF YOU DON"T LIKE THE FRAKKIN' CONTENT YOU'RE HEARING ON THE RADIO THEN CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!!
"We are our own censors"
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. February 2008 @ 11:07
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1. February 2008 @ 11:12 |
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Quote:
@Dela
I certainly don't want to start an argument. But, there are a few things i feel morally obligated to disagree with.
Quote:
as the book is by far one of the most terrifying and gruesome
pieces of fiction to ever be given to children
I know this is your opinion, but i do not believe the Bible to be a work of fiction. My Dad is a Christian minister and i have grown up immersed in Bible, theology, and religion. I will not argue that parts of it can be gruesome. But no more than watching the nightly news.
Quote:
im attacking a book, an inanimate object).
The Bible is a book, an inanimate object, true; But, to believers, it is the inspired Word of God, and therefore carries with it a little more gravity than just another book.
As i said, i do not wish to start a fight, and i'm not attacking your opinions. Just stating as a believer, i felt morally obligated to contest those two things.
I feel morally obligated to contest a few things too. What ever your own views are of the book cannot be the issue. It is a book that has text in it, meaning that anybody who can read in a language that the Bible is written in is exposed to it. Who wrote it and why it was written is not the issue. The content is the issue. The gruesomeness is the issue, not the beliefs or the believers. It isn't like the Bible has not been censored before. Most Christians are ignorant of the fact that the Romans removed sections of the Bible that conflicted with their beliefs or the major view of the book.
The Bible may have been or may have not been created by divine intervention but it was written and interpretated by people who put their visions into words thus they could be read and understood by other people.
The book has been changed before so why could it not be changed now? Surely the all mighty leaders of the Christian world could come up with a solution that would not change the message but simply the form of the text. They are messengers of God, noh?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. February 2008 @ 11:15
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varnull
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1. February 2008 @ 11:40 |
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Most people who study "religious" writings soon realise they are reading historical propaganda. No more, no less..
Nothing to do with god.. They are works of man. The more honest religions quite openly state they are a philosophy, not a set of rules, and you can take it or leave it.
Oh and christians... you are a minority religion, practise what you preach.. STFU and let the rest of us do what we want, for surely what games people choose to play it completely up to them...
Consider this.. In your belief system god makes everything, and motivates all works of man, both good and evil.. There is a theological argument there that I really don't want to get into. I suggest you read your damn book and understand it for what it is.. a set of stories which should be perceived against their historical background.. part written oral history of the jews, part writings of people under oppression from a foreign nation.
Before anybody calls me the devil.. I was brought up in a house that tried to be religious. the only "religion".. and I don't even like to call it that.. that made any sense at all was Zen Bhuddism.
The rest all seem like fear of the dark and stories told to indoctrinate and frighten ignorant people so they can be controlled by peer pressure..
Anyway.. who ever listens to christians..
where did I leave my lions?
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1. February 2008 @ 11:59 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
Most people who study "religious" writings soon realise they are reading historical propaganda. No more, no less..
Nothing to do with god.. They are works of man. The more honest religions quite openly state they are a philosophy, not a set of rules, and you can take it or leave it.
Oh and christians... you are a minority religion, practise what you preach.. STFU and let the rest of us do what we want, for surely what games people choose to play it completely up to them...
Consider this.. In your belief system god makes everything, and motivates all works of man, both good and evil.. There is a theological argument there that I really don't want to get into. I suggest you read your damn book and understand it for what it is.. a set of stories which should be perceived against their historical background.. part written oral history of the jews, part writings of people under oppression from a foreign nation.
Before anybody calls me the devil.. I was brought up in a house that tried to be religious. the only "religion".. and I don't even like to call it that.. that made any sense at all was Zen Bhuddism.
The rest all seem like fear of the dark and stories told to indoctrinate and frighten ignorant people so they can be controlled by peer pressure..
Anyway.. who ever listens to christians..
where did I leave my lions?
Being from a Christian nation and having studied religion I can say that I agree with you in essence. Your words are a bit rough around the edges and will most certainly rise unneeded emotions. Religion is a delicate matter which should not be dealt so light-heartedly. Choose you words more carefully, is my advice to you.
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. February 2008 @ 12:18 |
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Quote:
Your words are a bit rough around the edges and will most certainly rise unneeded emotions.
That my friend, is Varnull. :)
I have studied religion to a great extent, and admittedly, a lot of it, especially in Judeo Christianity is proganda. I'll agree. A lot of that is some groups/sects/denominations that feel it neccessary to preach a message of hell, fire, and brimstone and establish a sort of emotional leash and guilt trip. Sadly, what's missed is the underlying message of the New Testament, and that is a message of LOVE.
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varnull
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1. February 2008 @ 12:26 |
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The NAZI's were christians.. with black magic leanings.
I chose my words deliberately to annoy the indoctrinated ;)
Digging for the truth, and pulling away the obscuring covers of "belief" does upset those who do not like to see the truth.
I don't even know why we are giving this group the time of day.. they have a right to their opinions (no matter how flawed) and I have the same right to mine.
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"The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity
and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted
activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy ...
neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water."
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'If there is any religion that would cope with modern
scientific needs, it would be Buddhism'
- Albert Einstein
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"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims
may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons
than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may
sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who
torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with
the approval of their own conscience."
__C.S. Lewis, _God in the Dock_
Once there was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled.
This time is called the Dark Ages.
so by teling me to chose my words more carefully, even though on the surface agreeing with what they say, you still try to cover the light of realisation.
That is my biggest argument with what I call "churchianity" for it blinds the eyes of the seeing.
Dela.. as this news article is in respect or the outpourings of a religious group it can't be discussed without bringing "my god is bigger than your god" junk into the equation.
Before you close this I just want to pose the indoctrinated this little realtivistic conundrum..
Everything is relative to the viewpoint of the observer, therefore from my viewpoint this whole universe only exists because I am here to observe it. If I cease to exist so does the universe and everything in it.. Therefore from where I stand, logically I must be god, for there can be no other..
Quote:
"Given that God is infinite, and the Universe is also infinite,
would you like a toasted tea-cake?"
- Toaster, Red Dwarf
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. February 2008 @ 12:34
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Staff Member
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1. February 2008 @ 12:59 |
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well im not gonna get caught up in a religious debate in this thread and i HIGHLY suggest that nobody else does. The only reason for my comment is I saw an obvious double standard and decided to address from from my point of view, I don't need anybody to defend themselves because I didn't attack anybody... well maybe the political group mentioned in this article, that's about it. Remember, I didn't even attack any specific religion or anything like that, I'm just pointing out that what applies to one thing should apply to another and is there anyone here who can say that the comment I made wasn't gonna come from somebody else, especially in these days... and I know some people might object but I said it in a polite way, and mentioned it was "my opinion", im not trying to force it on anyone... just my comment from my perspective.
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varnull
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1. February 2008 @ 13:21 |
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Which you know I respect. As with all political groups with religion in the name there are always double standards. They rely on the blind following of the indoctrinated to oppress the others.. it's just mob rule by the back door.
The only good thing to come from the English revolution was the separation of church and state.
Oh.. and the right to worship any junk you want so long as you don't try to oppress others with your beliefs (not a stupid man Cromwell, shame he didn't use the same logic in Ireland)
lions 1....
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. February 2008 @ 13:22
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windsong
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1. February 2008 @ 13:34 |
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Originally posted by Dela:
OK, well... let me just say that I'd also like to see a parental advisory sticker on every single bible in Finland then, as the book is by far one of the most terrifying and gruesome pieces of fiction to ever be given to children (my opinion, i'm not attacking anybody.. im attacking a book, an inanimate object).
The Nazi Party felt the same way, and delighted in their book burning festivities. The Bible was seen as "too violent" for children.
Oh the irony.
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Member
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1. February 2008 @ 13:36 |
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Originally posted by Dela:
Finnish Christian Democratic Party
OK, well... let me just say that I'd also like to see a parental advisory sticker on every single bible in Finland then, as the book is by far one of the most terrifying and gruesome pieces of fiction to ever be given to children (my opinion, i'm not attacking anybody.. im attacking a book, an inanimate object).
I'm sorry if my comment is offensive, but in today's world the bible must be the biggest selling book of all time, yet what you read in it, you never would have expected to find in it. Before anybody says it, I know the differences between Old and New Testament but it doesn't change the text in the Old.
Both Bible and video games are marketed, the only difference is the violence depicted in video games comes under scrutiny while the violence permitted in the Bible doesn't to the same degree. Let's at least be fair!
Your right i see your point there is a double standard.I'm a Christian & i think the biggest problem we have is that some of us Christian force there belief on people when they should let people make a choice to whats right for there life.Don't hurt for parents to be responsible either.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. February 2008 @ 13:43
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. February 2008 @ 13:49 |
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Originally posted by Dela:
well im not gonna get caught up in a religious debate in this thread and i HIGHLY suggest that nobody else does. The only reason for my comment is I saw an obvious double standard and decided to address from from my point of view, I don't need anybody to defend themselves because I didn't attack anybody... well maybe the political group mentioned in this article, that's about it. Remember, I didn't even attack any specific religion or anything like that, I'm just pointing out that what applies to one thing should apply to another and is there anyone here who can say that the comment I made wasn't gonna come from somebody else, especially in these days... and I know some people might object but I said it in a polite way, and mentioned it was "my opinion", im not trying to force it on anyone... just my comment from my perspective.
And i too have nothing but respect for that. I apologize if my reply to your initial post created a mild, polite, religious debate. I was only trying to offer yet another opinion.
And i see where your post is coming from. These days there are more double standards than anything. Especially from "religous" folk. And i certainly was not trying to force my opinion on anyone else.
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aysah
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1. February 2008 @ 14:22 |
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I was like THIS close to joining in the debate that slowly emerged here and realized that it's kinda like the Special Olympics... Even if you win your still.. -ahem- so yeah, definitely an interesting article though.
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1. February 2008 @ 15:54 |
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Originally posted by aysah:
I was like THIS close to joining in the debate that slowly emerged here and realized that it's kinda like the Special Olympics... Even if you win your still.. -ahem- so yeah, definitely an interesting article though.
A man not willing to share his thoughts, has no thoughts worthy enough to share. A man of no worthy thoughts condemns only thoughts of others, being oblivious to all but himself.
-ville30
Now you ponder about that for a while.
It is not about winning, it is about expressing yourself. Interaction with others might help us see the light, so to speak or reinforce our own opinions. It is not about who is right or wrong, it is about finding yourself, what matters to you, how you choose to perceive the world or do you choose to be woefully ignorant to the world by only dealing with the material. While the material is important, one needs a spiritual side. We humans are religious by nature, closing our eyes from what is not and what we believe is, is a terrible crime against humanity itself.
Hehehehe I like to get carried away.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. February 2008 @ 16:04
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Junior Member
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1. February 2008 @ 16:13 |
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Quote:
I don't even know why we are giving this group the time of day.. they have a right to their opinions (no matter how flawed) and I have the same right to mine.
so by teling me to chose my words more carefully, even though on the surface agreeing with what they say, you still try to cover the light of realisation.
Ahh but we must protest for the sake of protesting. Protesting is a conduct for our thoughts. Together we are united, while separated we shall crumple.
Illumination is a wonderful gift to offer, but there is a right mean where there is a way. Dirty words will only clog their ears, as dirty water clogs plumbing.
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Staff Member
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1. February 2008 @ 16:19 |
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Nobody has been silenced for their opinions, instead we try to keep the thread on topic. My original post was on topic as i addressed the group who made the claim and decided to point out what "I think" is a double standard request from this group, but I will admit that they are raising a topic that "any" political party might have risen so if you can put out the Christianity affiliation completely and look at it like that, it's the same old story as has been seen in a lot of countries with regard to these games, but i decided to address the group in a comment based on how I saw it "coming from them".
What I'd like to avoid is a back and forth about God or Christianity that has completely dropped the topic of the news, that's off-topic posting and its the only reason someone will be asked by any mod or staff to stop doing something. But it's all good from here on out anyways :-)
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1. February 2008 @ 16:26 |
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As I do not nesacarly disagree with this idea, there are a couple things I'd like to say.
If parents want to be able to regulate what their kids watch.......or play, get involved with your children. Know who your childs friends are, know what shows they watch, know everything you can know. Besides I believe most of the game systems now have a censor built in to not allow underage gaming. Also isn't their already a rating system on games????? Thought I had seen a couple on my games...........maybe not.
Anyway, we the parents need to moniter our children. Not some other organization, because we're to lazy to.
LD
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varnull
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1. February 2008 @ 16:29 |
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Originally posted by ville30:
Originally posted by aysah:
I was like THIS close to joining in the debate that slowly emerged here and realized that it's kinda like the Special Olympics... Even if you win your still.. -ahem- so yeah, definitely an interesting article though.
A man not willing to share his thoughts, has no thoughts worthy enough to share. A man of no worthy thoughts condemns only thoughts of others, being oblivious to all but himself.
-ville30
Now you ponder about that for a while.
It is not about winning, it is about expressing yourself. Interaction with others might help us see the light, so to speak or reinforce our own opinions. It is not about who is right or wrong, it is about finding yourself, what matters to you, how you choose to perceive the world or do you choose to be woefully ignorant to the world by only dealing with the material. While the material is important, one needs a spiritual side. We humans are religious by nature, closing our eyes from what is not and what we believe is, is a terrible crime against humanity itself.
Hehehehe I like to get carried away.
Doctor:: And how did you find yourself this morning?
Patient:: Well I just threw back the covers and there I was
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1. February 2008 @ 16:54 |
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Quote:
Originally posted by ville30:
Originally posted by aysah:
I was like THIS close to joining in the debate that slowly emerged here and realized that it's kinda like the Special Olympics... Even if you win your still.. -ahem- so yeah, definitely an interesting article though.
A man not willing to share his thoughts, has no thoughts worthy enough to share. A man of no worthy thoughts condemns only thoughts of others, being oblivious to all but himself.
-ville30
Now you ponder about that for a while.
It is not about winning, it is about expressing yourself. Interaction with others might help us see the light, so to speak or reinforce our own opinions. It is not about who is right or wrong, it is about finding yourself, what matters to you, how you choose to perceive the world or do you choose to be woefully ignorant to the world by only dealing with the material. While the material is important, one needs a spiritual side. We humans are religious by nature, closing our eyes from what is not and what we believe is, is a terrible crime against humanity itself.
Hehehehe I like to get carried away.
Doctor:: And how did you find yourself this morning?
Patient:: Well I just threw back the covers and there I was
I don't get it. :s
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. February 2008 @ 19:15 |
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Quote:
@Dela
I certainly don't want to start an argument. But, there are a few things i feel morally obligated to disagree with.
Quote:
as the book is by far one of the most terrifying and gruesome pieces of fiction to ever be given to children
I know this is your opinion, but i do not believe the Bible to be a work of fiction. My Dad is a Christian minister and i have grown up immersed in Bible, theology, and religion. I will not argue that parts of it can be gruesome. But no more than watching the nightly news.
Quote:
im attacking a book, an inanimate object).
The Bible is a book, an inanimate object, true; But, to believers, it is the inspired Word of God, and therefore carries with it a little more gravity than just another book.
As i said, i do not wish to start a fight, and i'm not attacking your opinions. Just stating as a believer, i felt morally obligated to contest those two things.
Ah yes because non believers are sub human and there opinions do not matter... religion can be very devisesif, if the bible was not tied to religion it would be seen in a very very bad light since it spends a lot of time on punishment/torture,subjugation(on and by).
While its part of religion it should'NT be "labeled" but then again in the hands of the ignorant it can be used as a tool to subjugate and control.
(this is not a knock on faith but on petty shallow moralisim hat infects a part of religion,normally via to many elites with to much time on their hands,yes I have issues with religion/government but I have issues with most human mobs)
As for censoring media its pointless and petty because those who march in the black booted moralist army will never back down from their corrupted high ground because they do want to nanny adults.
With that said lets look at how logic and reason see the issue, you have SOME media that can be questioned if in the hands of minors (15 and under) so if one looks at this with reason and whats for the best of all one can tie the sale of mature media to minors to law ,its the quickest and most painless way to regulate it.
Example Germany and the UK, the SKU dose not outright ban a lot of titles and the funfact of the day is you can still buy them at local shops and thought he net its just out of sight of minors, the Us BBFC has issues with control they have laws that protect minors from buying mature content yet they like banning things, a system that bans anything outside illicit media(childporn,snuff films,ect) is a pompous draconian system that is unneeded in modern socity.
Its simple folks slot the media he age ranges and limit minors access to the more mature media...(if you feel like a large population of your parents are drooling idiots).
I am against censorship thats a indavendaul shtick,zipy has a saying" telling adults they can not have steak will only make more cannibals" , what I am for is precise regulation.
--------
edits
====
grammar FTW...
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. February 2008 @ 20:21
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chinpark9
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1. February 2008 @ 20:21 |
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So, now it is enough to put the word ' Christian' in your title, and that is supposed to make you, what, honest?
As a breed, politicians are that rarest form of invertebrate, able to explain all their misdeeds as done for the public good, if only the public were to know it. And hopefully slithering away, hoping to have got away with it.
When caught with their hands in the till, those persons stand in amongst their peers to wring their hands and ask for understanding, to wit, that one from Liverpool who "employed his kids".To make amends, this fellow will give up his seat next time round. He should give it up now, and be marched directly to jail. Those people should appear in public in handcuffs.
I say this in all humility. I too, am a Christian.
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ken9771
Account closed as per user's own request
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1. February 2008 @ 20:27 |
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Quote:
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as the book is by far one of the most terrifying and gruesome pieces of fiction to ever be given to children
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If you do not believe this, visit the following two sites, that will change your mind, that is if you have a mind!
http://www.evilbible.com/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
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