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Toshiba CEO talks out about HD DVD's fate
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 4 March, 2008
Toshiba CEO Atsutoshi Nishida has finally talked out about his company's decision to drop HD DVD and went as far as to say that the format did not "stand a chance" following Warner's decision to drop the format for Blu-ray.
Citing the Warner decision, Nishida said that the format would have only had 20% of the software market share and that Warner's decision sealed the format war's fate.
... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. March 2008 @ 17:41 |
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Sour grapes
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nopcbs
Junior Member
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4. March 2008 @ 19:17 |
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What "sour grapes"? He told the truth. With Warner getting paid off by Sony to drop HD-DVD, superior technology or not, Toshiba had no choice, but to drop out.
Huge pity that the worse technology won, but Sony was willing to pay anything to win, and they did. Here's hoping that video-on-demand kills Blu Ray...and yeah, that is sour grapes on my part...even though I have a PS3.
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nopcbs
Junior Member
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4. March 2008 @ 19:17 |
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What "sour grapes"? He told the truth. With Warner getting paid off by Sony to drop HD-DVD, superior technology or not, Toshiba had no choice, but to drop out.
Huge pity that the worse technology won, but Sony was willing to pay anything to win, and they did. Here's hoping that video-on-demand kills Blu Ray...and yeah, that is sour grapes on my part...even though I have a PS3.
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Ludikhris
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4. March 2008 @ 19:22 |
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Im just glad the superior more consumer friendly option (BluRay) won. If it wasn't for Toshiba paying off dreamworks this could have been done earlier. It seemed like Toshiba would do anything to win, even pay off other companies. Thank goodness the better option survived. HOO RAY!
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PetahG
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4. March 2008 @ 21:48 |
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Who says Blueray was the better option?
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camaro17
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4. March 2008 @ 22:12 |
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Originally posted by Ludikhris:
Im just glad the superior more consumer friendly option (BluRay) won. If it wasn't for Toshiba paying off dreamworks this could have been done earlier. It seemed like Toshiba would do anything to win, even pay off other companies. Thank goodness the better option survived. HOO RAY!
i agree completely with you man.
Peace
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Staff Member
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4. March 2008 @ 22:24 |
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Originally posted by Ludikhris:
Im just glad the superior more consumer friendly option (BluRay) won.
It seems you are a fan of more expensive prices and crippling DRM?
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elfman12
Junior Member
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4. March 2008 @ 22:25 |
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Originally posted by Ludikhris:
Im just glad the superior more consumer friendly option (BluRay) won. If it wasn't for Toshiba paying off dreamworks this could have been done earlier. It seemed like Toshiba would do anything to win, even pay off other companies. Thank goodness the better option survived. HOO RAY!
I disagree with you completely, man.
Peace.
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dblbogey7
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4. March 2008 @ 22:46 |
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As an HD DVD owner/user I feel like the Toshiba CEO just gave me the finger and a big, loud "F-U".
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Ludikhris
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4. March 2008 @ 22:53 |
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Quote:
It seems you are a fan of more expensive prices and crippling DRM?
Im a fan of extra GBs of data and superior audio. Last I checked both formats had DRM. One format being cracked doesn't make it "more customer friendly". That's like calling a bully friendly because he only breaks one of your arms. The arguements for HD-DVD are groundless and I have decided to just use them in BRs favor.
Again, I'm just glad the better format won.
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nopcbs
Junior Member
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4. March 2008 @ 23:12 |
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Quote:
Quote:
It seems you are a fan of more expensive prices and crippling DRM?
Im a fan of extra GBs of data and superior audio. Last I checked both formats had DRM. One format being cracked doesn't make it "more customer friendly". That's like calling a bully friendly because he only breaks one of your arms. The arguements for HD-DVD are groundless and I have decided to just use them in BRs favor.
Again, I'm just glad the better format won.
********************************************************************
The worse format won. Consider: every HD-DVD player ever made supports Dolby Digital HD. Essentially no Blu Ray players support it. Every HD-DVD player ecer made includes an ethernet port for easy upgradability and access to on-line features, Few Blu Ray players have those feature. HD-DVD players have been readilly available for months at sub-$200 prices and at even sub-$100 prices. No Blu-Ray player is available for under $300. Toshiba made it a point to make all HD-DVD players be easily upgradable via their ethernet port. Other than PS3 (at $400 and up), essentially nu Blu Ray players are upgradable to Profile 2, the supposed mature version of Blu Ray that will (finally) debut this year.
DRM, I don't care about one way or the other, but people say that the Sony flavor is more draconian. Call that one a tie.
I see zero pluses for Blu Ray vs. HD-DVD as far as technology is concerned, and lots of pluses for HD-DVD. A pity the wrong format won.
Finally, I own two HD-DVD players (A2 and A3) bought for a total of under $200 (with 7 movies tossed in). Also have a $400 PS3 (one free movie). Image-wise, there is no difference. Cost-wise, there is a huge difference.
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OzMick
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4. March 2008 @ 23:31 |
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Oh how people forget Sony's recent history... Now there's a company that will never again see a cent of my money. I hope they enjoy their "victory", it will be short lived before greed sets in again and a new format will be devised to fleece everyone out of their cash.
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Ludikhris
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5. March 2008 @ 00:36 |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It seems you are a fan of more expensive prices and crippling DRM?
Im a fan of extra GBs of data and superior audio. Last I checked both formats had DRM. One format being cracked doesn't make it "more customer friendly". That's like calling a bully friendly because he only breaks one of your arms. The arguements for HD-DVD are groundless and I have decided to just use them in BRs favor.
Again, I'm just glad the better format won.
********************************************************************
The worse format won. Consider: every HD-DVD player ever made supports Dolby Digital HD. Essentially no Blu Ray players support it. Every HD-DVD player ecer made includes an ethernet port for easy upgradability and access to on-line features, Few Blu Ray players have those feature. HD-DVD players have been readilly available for months at sub-$200 prices and at even sub-$100 prices. No Blu-Ray player is available for under $300. Toshiba made it a point to make all HD-DVD players be easily upgradable via their ethernet port. Other than PS3 (at $400 and up), essentially nu Blu Ray players are upgradable to Profile 2, the supposed mature version of Blu Ray that will (finally) debut this year.
DRM, I don't care about one way or the other, but people say that the Sony flavor is more draconian. Call that one a tie.
I see zero pluses for Blu Ray vs. HD-DVD as far as technology is concerned, and lots of pluses for HD-DVD. A pity the wrong format won.
Finally, I own two HD-DVD players (A2 and A3) bought for a total of under $200 (with 7 movies tossed in). Also have a $400 PS3 (one free movie). Image-wise, there is no difference. Cost-wise, there is a huge difference.
Ok so none of those are Sony issues, they are manufacturers of BluRay players that have the problems. Given that does include Sony, it's Sony's manufacturing and not their policies on BR standard. Can't upgrade? Not BR fault, its the fault of the player manufacturer. Cost too much? Same. It's not BluRays fault that Toshiba spent all their marketing dollars giving subsidies to HDDVD player manufacturers to try to undercut BluRay. The costs of manufacturing are not as big as they appear in retail stores. If there was not a BluRay then HDDVD would have been much more expensive, it was a marketing gimmick by Toshiba, and you all fell for it. Toshiba won't get a dollar of mine, because I dont need $200 paperweights right now.
I'm glad the better more consumer friendly option won.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2008 @ 01:28
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samshizze
Junior Member
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5. March 2008 @ 01:28 |
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If your going to blame someone, blame microsoft. They didnt even try to save thier own format, since they believe downloading HD off broadband is the future. Bill Gates said it himself.
Bluray and Playstation 3 are gonna have a hell of a year!
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Staff Member
4 product reviews
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5. March 2008 @ 01:34 |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It seems you are a fan of more expensive prices and crippling DRM?
Im a fan of extra GBs of data and superior audio. Last I checked both formats had DRM. One format being cracked doesn't make it "more customer friendly". That's like calling a bully friendly because he only breaks one of your arms. The arguements for HD-DVD are groundless and I have decided to just use them in BRs favor.
Again, I'm just glad the better format won.
********************************************************************
The worse format won. Consider: every HD-DVD player ever made supports Dolby Digital HD. Essentially no Blu Ray players support it. Every HD-DVD player ecer made includes an ethernet port for easy upgradability and access to on-line features, Few Blu Ray players have those feature. HD-DVD players have been readilly available for months at sub-$200 prices and at even sub-$100 prices. No Blu-Ray player is available for under $300. Toshiba made it a point to make all HD-DVD players be easily upgradable via their ethernet port. Other than PS3 (at $400 and up), essentially nu Blu Ray players are upgradable to Profile 2, the supposed mature version of Blu Ray that will (finally) debut this year.
DRM, I don't care about one way or the other, but people say that the Sony flavor is more draconian. Call that one a tie.
I see zero pluses for Blu Ray vs. HD-DVD as far as technology is concerned, and lots of pluses for HD-DVD. A pity the wrong format won.
Finally, I own two HD-DVD players (A2 and A3) bought for a total of under $200 (with 7 movies tossed in). Also have a $400 PS3 (one free movie). Image-wise, there is no difference. Cost-wise, there is a huge difference.
Ok so none of those are Sony issues, they are manufacturers of BluRay players that have the problems. Given that does include Sony, it's Sony's manufacturing and not their policies on BR standard. Can't upgrade? Not BR fault, its the fault of the player manufacturer. Cost too much? Same. It's not BluRays fault that Toshiba spent all their marketing dollars giving subsidies to HDDVD player manufacturers to try to undercut BluRay. The costs of manufacturing are not as big as they appear in retail stores. If there was not a BluRay then HDDVD would have been much more expensive, it was a marketing gimmick by Toshiba, and you all fell for it. Toshiba won't get a dollar of mine, because I dont need $200 paperweights right now.
I'm glad the better more consumer friendly option one.
Im sorry but you have yet to make one decent statement on how Blu-ray is better. It is just now getting features HD DVD has had for over a year, such as PIP. HD DVD is 51GB, Blu-ray is 50GB so how can you say there is more capacity? Visually, they are exactly the same. HD DVD had superior audio. HD DVD's "DRM" wasn't so crippling that it can even make your legit retail BDs unplayable like BD+ does. PS, calling cheaper prices a gimmick? I don't think so...even in the beginning, HD DVD players were $100 USD less than any Blu-ray on the market, including the PS3. Sony had fatter pockets and a, everyone must agree, smarter action plan for the format, as placing the BD drives in the PS3 was genius. The consumer has lost out for now, but hell, HD is still under 2 percent of all media sales so maybe digital downloads will come around for the steal :)
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A_Klingon
Moderator
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5. March 2008 @ 07:32 |
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Originally posted by dblbogey7:
As an HD DVD owner/user I feel like the Toshiba CEO just gave me the finger and a big, loud "F-U".
Well, I don't know what you paid for your machine, dblbogey7, (I hope you got a really good deal), but for myself, I am going to grab an HD-DVD player - if I possibly can before it's too late & they're all gone forever.
The value of one of these machines, now discounted beyond belief, is remarkable, even MINUS their inherent superb ability to upscale regular DVDs.
For the same price, you could never get a regular player that would be built as well. Even before HD-DVD's demise, I believe these players were consistently being sold *at a loss*, just to get them into people's homes as quickly as possible. The build quality, for example, of a Toshiba HD-DVD player right now, blows the doors off a comparably-priced *regular* DVD player.
I think that in my area, Walmart is gearing up to have one last 'blowout' sale. (I was speaking to one of their employees). Rather than go the (expensive)route of returning all their discs & players, they will be selling off what remaing players they have at a huge discount, and offering the movies at a 2-for-the-price-of-one discount.
I just hope I can get one of these players in time.
-- Mike --
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SDF_GR
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5. March 2008 @ 07:36 |
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It is just now getting features HD DVD has had for over a year, such as PIP. HD DVD is 51GB, Blu-ray is 50GB so how can you say there is more capacity?
You shouldent say BS like that.
If you consider as a fact that a triple layer HD-DVD is working 100% to all HD-DVD players then compare it with the 8layer 200gb BD disc that TDK have said that will be able to manufacture.
1 HD-DVD layer =17gb
1 BD layer = 25gb.
I dont know about the rest specs audio, video quality etc, i dont own a HD-DVD player but when talking about capacity BD is superior.
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error5
Senior Member
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5. March 2008 @ 08:10 |
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Originally posted by DVDBack23:
HD DVD is 51GB, Blu-ray is 50GB so how can you say there is more capacity?
I'm sorry DVDBack23, but I think we need to clarify a few things here.
The TL51 disc spec was approved by the DVD forum but never saw the light of day with any movie release. Hence it's considered vaporware. The fact is sevral insiders at avsforums admitted that replication of these discs was going very badly that a commercial release was just not feasible at this time because of quality issues. (This actual quote was posted here at one of the threads - I can look it up later.)
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HD DVD had superior audio.
This is simply not true. Dual format releases have the same audio quality given the same encode. Plus BluRay has the capacity to include an uncompressed PCM soundtrack which is bit for bit exactly the same as the studio master and yields exactly the same result as a losslesssly encoded one.
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HD DVD's "DRM" wasn't so crippling that it can even make your legit retail BDs unplayable like BD+ does.
I know about the playback issues of BD+ discs with the LG BH100 and the Samsung 1200 but these are firmware related problems. For me. I don't even know which movies have BD+ becuase I just pop them in my player and they all play without a problem. I have yet to see a report where a BD+ playback problem is not firmware-related.
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PS, calling cheaper prices a gimmick? I don't think so...even in the beginning, HD DVD players were $100 USD less than any Blu-ray on the market, including the PS3.
The fact remains that Toshiba's massive price cuts were a desperate strategy to increase software sales that eventually did not work. They lowered player prices so much that they priced everyone else out of the market. Venturer must have felt really pissed off after Toshiba undercut their player by $50. Have you ever wondered why there was no other CE maker who wanted to develop and manufacture an HD DVD player? That's right - there was NO PROFIT TO BE MADE.
Now dblbogey7 has the correct sentiment:
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As an HD DVD owner/user I feel like the Toshiba CEO just gave me the finger and a big, loud "F-U".
This new statement from the Toshiba CEO advocating inferior technology is one huge slap in the face to all of us who bought HD DVD players and movies. Upconversion and low-bitrate downloads - give me a break. This really leaves an extremely bitter taste in the mouth and makes me want to take my Toshiba XA2 and A1 players out to my driveway and run them over with my car.
Sorry for the rant but I just had to vent my anger at Toshiba's CEO.
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. March 2008 @ 08:44 |
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Yes, the war is over, and i firmly believe that bickering about the supremacy of one format over the over is redundant. I believe each format had thier own strengths and thier own weaknesses.
Not to mention that eventually the winning (deepest pockets, most strategic) format too will be replaced with something else.
This is an excellent opportunity for HD DVD enthusiasts to pick up good quality players for upconversion for dirt cheap.
The format squabble lasted long enough to promote a small amount of competition which had an effect on pricing in consumer's favor. I believe we can expect to see prices going up on the Blu Ray side of things while HD DVD's players and movies will be sold at blow-out prices.
Personally, i still can't call one format superior to the other.
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juankerr
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5. March 2008 @ 08:54 |
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7thsinger is right. Any discussion of superiority right now is moot. redundant, and useless.
OTOH I do understand dblbogey7's and error5's point of view. As a fellow HD DVD owner I can see how they can feel that way after Nishida-san's statements. It's one thing to try to save face but it's also another thing to turn your back on your supporters.
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. March 2008 @ 09:16 |
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Quote:
OTOH I do understand dblbogey7's and error5's point of view. As a fellow HD DVD owner I can see how they can feel that way after Nishida-san's statements. It's one thing to try to save face but it's also another thing to turn your back on your supporters
In complete agreement. That's a horrible thing to say to everyone who
was so faithfully was supportive.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2008 @ 09:18
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ChromeMud
Junior Member
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5. March 2008 @ 10:31 |
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I don't see Blu-Ray movies going up in price just because of HD-DVD's retirement.There are competing formats such as HD cable,Sat and Digital Downloads that will get my money if Blu-Ray prices itself beyond value.
I wanted HD-DVD to win but kind'a knew that Sony was outgunning Toshiba in many ways so got a PS3.Using it as a movie player, not for games at the moment though.Says a lot about the PS3!
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goodswipe
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5. March 2008 @ 11:43 |
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Originally posted by dblbogey7:
As an HD DVD owner/user I feel like the Toshiba CEO just gave me the finger and a big, loud "F-U".
Amen brother, my thoughts exactly.
Originally posted by Luda:
It seemed like Toshiba would do anything to win, even pay off other companies.
Hmm, isn't this what Sony (BDA) did also?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2008 @ 12:16
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hughjars
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5. March 2008 @ 12:15 |
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HD DVD movie production is being dropped with indecent haste.
Damned shame.
I find it hard to believe that 1 million+ HD DVD owners (worldwide) are not a viable market.
Thank God the players can do an excellent job with SD DVD and that there are 430+ HD DVD movies available
(that is in western markets there are around 800 titles worldwide).
It's also time to be glad that the emphasis with HD DVD was always more skewed towards the genuine classic then the most recent forgettable & worthless adolescent male kid's fav summer action hit BS.
But those companies that would now have us head off for Blu-ray have a weird set of values.
Especially when treated like this why on earth would anyone 'early adopt' the Blu-ray format?
They don't even have a range of mass-market friendly final spec players to offer.
It's also perfectly possible that 2 formats lost this little tussle......it's just that Blu-ray hasn't realised it and fallen over yet.
I'll be using every other alternative and avoiding Blu-ray myself.
If you want the DRM nightmare that Blu-ray is up to it's neck in then work away.
I just don't want it or need it and there are perfectly acceptable alternatives.
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goodswipe
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5. March 2008 @ 13:09 |
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Originally posted by SDF_GR:
1 HD-DVD layer =17gb
Let's not cause anymore confusion for HD DVD. It actually has a capacity of 15gb per single layer. ;)
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