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Which DVD format: Plus or Minus - for my Sony HDD DVD Recorder
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Member
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30. June 2008 @ 19:57 |
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I have recently purchased a Sony HDD DVD Recorder to replace my VHS video recorder. It can record onto +R and -R discs but so far I have been using +R discs with no problems. There was no reason why I specifically chose +r.
However, I was just wondering which (if any) is in fact the best format to use. Both + and - R are the same price and the +r's do work on two different players I have tried them on. I tend to use Sony or Verbatim.
Anyone got any suggestions. Should I change to -R or continue +R?
Many thanks
Peter
I used to be open minded but my brain fell out.
Time is an illusion; at lunchtime-doubly so (HHGTTG)
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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30. June 2008 @ 20:51 |
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If the discs are working on your recorder and players, there is no reason to change. Each format has its own advantages/disadvantages, but the technical differences don't matter much to consumers while some of the political ones do.
+R advantage
1) less expensive to produce but priced the same as or slightly higher than -R.
2) high frequency modulation makes lossless linking more accurate, but this is an advantage only for non-recommended multi-session recordings
disadvantage
1) Some players/recorders/drives, most notably early Panasonic models, refused to play +R discs. This is no longer a problem for recent equipment and can be skirted by recording the +R discs as "DVD-ROM" discs to fool the older Panasonic equipment.
-R advantage
1) Meets all the specs written by the DVD Forum which supported this format for recording video.
2) Compatible with almost every DVD player
3) Sometimes less expensive in the market despite slightly higher manufacturing costs.
disadvantage
1) Mastering requires a double-beam laser to create glass masters with accurate pre-pit information.
2) Each disc must be initialized by a drive that records copy protection information on it.
3) Pre-pit guidance is less accurate for lossless linking of files than the HF modulation used for DVD+R.
If any of this technical gibberish keeps you up at night, do more studying to find out more so that you can make an informed choice. If it makes no sense to you at all, keep doing what you're doing and you won't go wrong.
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Member
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1. July 2008 @ 02:31 |
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Thanks Jo,
Many thanks for replying. 99% of that did make sense and I'll continue to use what I am using in that case.
I'll miss my VHS in some ways, its been a friend for many years. :-)
I used to be open minded but my brain fell out.
Time is an illusion; at lunchtime-doubly so (HHGTTG)
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. July 2008 @ 03:02 |
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DVD plus R was developed because Pioneer didn't want to pay to royalties to the DVD dash R format
BTW
the correct term is DVD dash R NOT minus
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. July 2008 @ 03:07
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Member
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1. July 2008 @ 03:23 |
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That must be the politics that Joe mentioned.
"dash R", thanks for that correction. :-)
I used to be open minded but my brain fell out.
Time is an illusion; at lunchtime-doubly so (HHGTTG)
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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1. July 2008 @ 09:02 |
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Pioneer developed and promoted the DVD-R format. The DVD Forum selected it as the format for video recording and the ram.cfm" class="forum_link" target="_blank">DVD-RAM format for data recording. HP, Philips, and Sony protested the limitations of having to have both a sequential video format and a different data format for consumers. The DVD Forum refused to change, so the trio introduced the DVD+RW video/data format.
This was supposed to be a single rewritable disc format that could be quickly erased (<2 minutes) and formatted (<1 minute) while Pioneer's initial rewritable DVD-RW disc (introduced because no one liked the DVD-RAM cartridge approach and the sector formatting that prevented playback in DVD players) took an hour and a half to erase and only a little less to format. The DVD+RW Alliance then introduced a write-once, dye-based DVD+R disc to pair with the DVD-R medium; but to this day the initial logo still shows DVD+RW, causing endless confusion to users.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. July 2008 @ 09:04
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. July 2008 @ 12:41 |
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I have noticed that consoles with pick lasers like -R over +R when it comes to single layer, but for DVD Players it doesn't really matter anymore if you are booktyping to DVD-ROM.
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bratcher
Senior Member
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1. July 2008 @ 15:57 |
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Originally posted by JoeRyan:
-R advantage
1) Meets all the specs written by the DVD Forum which supported this format for recording video.
2) Compatible with almost every DVD player
3) Sometimes less expensive in the market despite slightly higher manufacturing costs.
disadvantage
1) Mastering requires a double-beam laser to create glass masters with accurate pre-pit information.
2) Each disc must be initialized by a drive that records copy protection information on it.
3) Pre-pit guidance is less accurate for lossless linking of files than the HF modulation used for DVD+R.
I've never heard of the copy protection (#2) requirement...
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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1. July 2008 @ 16:38 |
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It hasn't been used outside Japan as yet, but it's there. Like CPRM, it can cause problems if not deployed properly. When one considers the mess that HDMI misunderstandings have caused, it is unlikely that the DVD-R copy protection mechanism will be engaged. (It was an additional feature added to the format to get it through DVD Forum committees. Pioneer should get the credit for pushing to get recordable DVD media in the market in the first place despite the resistance from Hollywood. The CSS protection was thought to be very tough to crack, and the additional copy protection was going to allow limited copies if Hollywood ever gave the go ahead. Once CSS was cracked, the other restrictions were considered moot.)
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Jaknife
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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29. July 2008 @ 11:35 |
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Humble greetings to you seniors and addicts from this lowly freshman newby. Been copying/burning DVD's for my kids for about a year, no problems I couldn't solve with DVD Shrink, DVD Fab5, DVD Decrypter, VobBlanker, and Nero, but I've got a question I hope you can answer. Just ventured into DL discs, burned kids' movie on it to get feature, outtakes, games, etc., all on one disc. Plays on computer and a standalone DVD player, but not on another standalone DVD/VCR or combo DVD/VCR/TV. I used DVD+R DL, but from what I've learned it may be a simple matter of burning to DVD-R DL. I've noted the percentages of which plays best in most players, thought this might solve the issue. It's not critical, the kids are just limited to watching on a particular machine, but I'd like to be able to play everywhere, grandmas, etc. If you can perhaps validate my hunch or give me some other idea, guidance, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. Jaknife.
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AfterDawn Addict
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29. July 2008 @ 13:11 |
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the other stand alone player probably doesn't support playing back DVD+R DL media , only thing you could try is to booktype them to DVD-ROM
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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29. July 2008 @ 13:27 |
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ZoSoIV's recommendation to change the booktype to DVD-ROM is a good one. DVD-R DL has much less support than DVD+R DL; so you are less likely to find success with those media. Stick with DVD+R DL and see if changing the booktype gets the balky DVD player to play through the layer break.
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Jaknife
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29. July 2008 @ 16:03 |
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Huge thanks guys. I read some info on the subject but hadn't considered it the issue or know how. I found a tutorial to configure DVD Decrypter to automatically change BookType or BitSet to DVD-ROM. (I have Nero 6, which according to what I've read won't allow me to change BookType.) I'll see how it works tonight and post the results. Thanks again.
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. July 2008 @ 01:07 |
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you can change the booktype using nero express under options.
I'm postitive the DVD-R DL format will not work so don't even bother trying them
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. July 2008 @ 01:11
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varnull
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30. July 2008 @ 01:44 |
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Some burners don't support the feature.. if you have one like that then look for a modified firmware which probably will.
BTW.. +r is technically the better format, but if you are giving disks to friends then -r is the best for compatibility reasons with unknown hardware. My dansai (antique cheapo thing I know) standalone player refuses to have anything to do with + disks, regardless of any burn settings. Odd as it has a Samsung 604a drive hiding inside it.
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Jaknife
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30. July 2008 @ 09:17 |
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Thanks ZoSoIV, Varnull. I dug in last night and found that exact method, changed Nero burn format setting to DVD-ROM and burned the disc, DVD Decrypter confirms it was burned in DVD-ROM. Still only played as the other discs #@$%! BTW, I should've initially explained the play/no play problem better... The discs I've burned play perfectly in my, must be 5 years old now, Goldstar DVD player (don't laugh, it was a gift), but when I try in both my 3 year old Emerson TV/DVD/VCR (my kids') and 1 year old Philips DVD/VCR and click on Main Menu to by-pass Fast Play (it's Meet the Robinsons - Disney always seems to present me with challenges) it doesn't go there, still continues with Fast Play right into coming attractions. When I move forward to the end of them looking for the Main Menu and feature, I get Deleted Scenes and other extras, can't get to Main Menu or feature. If I just let it go automatically to Fast Play same thing. What I can't figure out is why the same disc plays perfectly with all features in the Goldstar.
DVD-R DL burning may be moot anyway, my burner will not burn in this format - every other one but this. I did some surfing, found what I think is the right firmware upgrade but am hesitant to go ahead and install, seems that if it's not right I could end up with a DVD storage drawer.
My drive is a Mad Dog, $40 last one on shelf on sale at Circuit City last year, couldn't resist. The info on it reads TSSTCorpCD/DVDW SH-S182M SB01 0814 0137PL SH-182MFirmware.
I'm stumped, feel beat up. If you guys think a firmware upgrade may do the trick, and try DVD-R DL then I'll get some Verbatim's and give it a shot. Any ideas appreciated. Thanks again.
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Jaknife
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30. July 2008 @ 09:35 |
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PS - I wanted to include a small screenshot I have on my desktop, can you explain how I go about getting a picture on here? Thanks.
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Senior Member
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30. July 2008 @ 12:13 |
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Upload the image to photobucket (Link) and then paste the image link in your post by clicking on the image button above the message box.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. July 2008 @ 12:18
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Jaknife
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30. July 2008 @ 13:46 |
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Great, thanks! Here's an image of my DVD burner's specifications.
Is it worth trying to determine what firmware upgrade is required? I don't know if that would even allow me to burn DVD-R DL or if the resulting DVD would be playable on my Emerson and Philips players anyway. I don't expect to be making many DL's anyway, more often I just use DVD Shrink and pluck out the feature and any other wanted extras. I can even pull the games and burn to 2nd disc, I had just hoped that for this one I could put it all on one.
Any comments, thoughts, ideas, suggestions will be most appreciated. Thanks again for all your help.
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