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DVD-R lifespan?
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joegeek
Junior Member
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10. October 2008 @ 11:28 |
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I backed up all my DVD's on external HD's as well as onto DVD-r.
Which has a longer lifespan, the DVD-r's or the external HD?
I just wonder if it is worth keeping all the movies on my HD's as well as the diks.
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. October 2008 @ 01:36 |
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depends on the brand of disc and how you store them. the HDD will probably last longer as long as you're only using it for storage. using Tayio Yuden is the best choice its hard to say how long they will last(my guess would be 10 to 20 years) i have some over 5 years old that playback fine (stored in binders standing up in a dark cool room)
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. October 2008 @ 01:37
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joegeek
Junior Member
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11. October 2008 @ 07:55 |
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Cool, thanks for the help man, much appreciated.
I have 5 500 GB WD drives and a 1 TB drive. What I planned on doing was to buy new HD every 6-8 years for the data. Movies are all that are on them and I give each one a test drive every 6-8 weeks just to give them some exercise if you know what I mean.
They are keep in a room that is always 60-68 degrees. I also back the movies up to Verbatim disks and I plan on replacing them every 4-5 years unless one gets dinged along the way.
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. October 2008 @ 14:08 |
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yeah the HDDs should store them many years fine then. Verbatim are good disc try to get the MIT and not the MII
Antec 1200 Full-Tower Case/Thermaltake 750-Watt PS/ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77 Mobo/Western Digital Black WD500 500GB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache/NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express Video Card/CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM 16GB DDR3 /Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo)/CORSAIR Hydro High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler/3-Asus DRW-24B1ST Sata Drives/Samsung 2493HM 24" LCD Monitior 1920x1200 resolution,5ms respone time/OS Windows 10 Pro SP1 64-bit
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Peshtigo
Senior Member
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11. October 2008 @ 15:50 |
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Originally posted by joegeek:
Cool, thanks for the help man, much appreciated.
I have 5 500 GB WD drives and a 1 TB drive. What I planned on doing was to buy new HD every 6-8 years for the data. Movies are all that are on them and I give each one a test drive every 6-8 weeks just to give them some exercise if you know what I mean.
They are keep in a room that is always 60-68 degrees. I also back the movies up to Verbatim disks and I plan on replacing them every 4-5 years unless one gets dinged along the way.
Wow! That's a goodly amount of harddrive space. Firstly, I find it fascinating that you think that there are that many quality movies that you not only must preserve them on harddrive but also backup on DVD blanks (not counting the original). But hey, if that's your thing, cool. Go with it. But think about this. I'll say in ten years (I'd bet closer to five years) harddrives as we know them today will be a thing of the past and DVD's will be a dead medium. If you don't think so I've got some eight-track and some cassette tapes and players in my basement that I could sell you. But have fun.
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varnull
Suspended permanently
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11. October 2008 @ 22:22 |
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pirates'r'us... I have 13.4TB of hdd space given over to films. You can't always guarantee being able to download it if you get an order ;)
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Peshtigo
Senior Member
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11. October 2008 @ 22:51 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
pirates'r'us... I have 13.4TB of hdd space given over to films. You can't always guarantee being able to download it if you get an order ;)
How long is the wait?
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miltex
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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12. October 2008 @ 01:13 |
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JoeRyan Help !
When the chips are down, you can count on miltex !
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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13. October 2008 @ 09:47 |
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A well recorded optical medium that is stored properly will outlast a hard drive stored in the same conditions--ideal storage conditions are identical for both: cool (60 degrees F. or 16 C.) and 40% relative humidity. The reasons are simple--the hard drive is a far more complex storage device with many more opportunities to fail. Here's a rundown:
Hard drive strengths--the recording medium is a flat glass or aluminum platter that is nearly impervious to changes from flatness, and the recording material is a magnetic coating of metal. The magnetic domains of the magnetic material never lose their magnetic properties; they can change polarization under the influence of a powerful magnet or under tremendous heat, but they always remain magnetic. (The same is true of tape; but the tape coating is only 50% magnetic at its maximum, and it is coated on a more fragile polyethyleyne terephthalate film.)
The weakness of the hard drive is its mechanical properties. The head must fly above the platter at a precise height to read but not so low that it will literally crash and damage the magnetic material or run into dust or debris introduced into the drive. The bearings of the drive will wear out at some point, and the electrical contacts can oxidize. A hard drive is like a disc/player combination.
An optical medium, however, is independent of any player. If mechanical properties fail, the medium can go to a different player. There are both mechanical and chemical properties of the medium itself, however, and both pose the greatest weaknesses of the disc. A DVD is a polycarbonate sandwich with the recording dye or semi-metal alloy in the middle. Both polycarbonate halves are very slightly concave before being bonded together so that the tension between them keeps them as flat as possible. The weakness is in the bonding material and the absorptive properties of the polycarbonate. if the disc does not remain extremely flat, the outer edges cannot be read because they will be out of focus. (The flatness is so critical that even the expansion and shrinkage of an adhesive paper label will likely ruin a disc.)
The chemical aspect concerns both the integrity of the bonding material and the purity and stability of the dye that is used. All dies begin to deteriorate soon after they are coated and continue to deteriorate after recording. The process, however, is very slow. UV light, heat, and humidity increase the deterioration; but under the most extreme tests of heat and humidity (85 degrees C. and 90% humidity), well recorded discs have been estimated to last 39 years with a 95% confidence level (that means only 5% failed). Over half of the discs were estimated to last beyond 52 years. (CD-Rs are estimated to last more than twice as long under the same conditions.)
Because of its simplicity compared to a hard drive, an optical disc ought to last longer if: 1) it was recorded well in the first place; 2) it is properly stored; and 3) its material quality is good.
It is a good idea, however, to store digital files on more than one medium simply because errors that do crop up are less likely to appear in the same place. That means that files can often be restored from multiple copies even if the copies are defective. Analogue sources should also always be saved if they are the masters because analogue media typically deteriorate in a slow and predictable way whereas digital media can be "perfect" up to a point where error correction fails and then may even become totally illegible.
The safest way to store the most valuable recordings is to make at least three digital copies on three different media or even three different media types and to store them in three different physical places, each under ideal conditions. That is how the most important government records are stored. The music industry has digitized most of the multi-track audio tapes and kept both the original masters and the digital copies in different places. (Except Motown! Those guys were so cheap initially that they bulk erased and reused their two-inch master tapes and kept only the stereo reduction tapes. They never expected to sell the Four Tops and Supremes on vinyl, on cassette, on CD, on MiniDisc, on SACD, on DVD-Audio, on flash drives, on Blu-ray, and so on and so on. The masters are gone forever.)
Long answer. Hope it helps.
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joegeek
Junior Member
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13. October 2008 @ 11:06 |
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Much appreciated JoeRyan, really useful info.
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miltex
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. October 2008 @ 18:33 |
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This is why JoeRyan is the media guru here at aD!
When the chips are down, you can count on miltex !
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Peshtigo
Senior Member
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13. October 2008 @ 23:52 |
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What about the discs' "lifespan" when stored on the open shelf in the family room or in the bedroom closet, where ninety-plus percent of all people really do store them. Real world answers for real world questions.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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14. October 2008 @ 02:54 |
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I read somewhere that TY discs will last 100 yrs in normal conditions. I have a question. I looked around for an answer but im not seeing one. :( I dont understand the harm in bumping up the output size in DVD RB. Its simply more space on a disc were waisting. Which i believe i calculated to be 1.01% which doesnt seem like much, but what worries me is somebody said, "leave room for errors" I only leave room for a program to close a disc. Which 1MB seems to be a good figure. However i go with 7MB For compatibility reasons. WHAT KINDA ERRORS do you suppose he/she meant? I treat my discs like babies. You have to. Optical media is not going anywhere for a while. Good disc + plus good burn equals long lasting dvd, RIGHT???
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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14. October 2008 @ 09:20 |
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The "real life" times are those quoted: average of 52 years or more for a DVD+/-R and 112 years for a CD-R if the disc is well recorded, stored properly, and handled carefully. As long as the open shelf holding DVDs or CD-Rs is out of the sun and not subject to severe temperature fluctuations or high levels of humidity, those figures above are realistic under the conditions mentioned. Any disc stored in a house in New Orleans without air conditioning will not last as long as one stored in a home without A/C in Geneva. UV light, temperature, and especially humidity all pose threats to the lifespan of optically recorded discs. Dust, temperatures, and physical shocks pose the greatest threats to hard drives.
Taiyo Yuden DVDs fit the profile mentioned above. Their CD-Rs, however, use a cyanine dye that is less light stable than the more common phthalocyanine. Their own certificates of durability suggest thirty years for CD-Rs and 50 years for DVDs.
Limiting the amount of data recorded on a disc avoids recording on the outer edge of the disc where the greatest number of errors is most likely for two reasons: 1) coating or sputtering imperfections (The dye is spin-coated on a disc, and the viscosity has to be just right to get the thickness uniform all the way to the edge. For rewritable discs, the sputter mask sometimes causes irregularities on the outer edge.) 2) No disc is perfectly flat, and deviations from ideal flatness start at the outer edge. Errors occur here if the disc has any mechancal flutter at high speeds because the laser has trouble trying to focus on a surface that keeps moving in and out of focus. Reducing the amount of data recorded on a disc keeps the end of the information further away from the troublesome edge.
A good disc plus a good burn ought to last a long time if kept from UV light, high humidity, temperature fluctations, and physical damage (scratches, pressure on one side of the disc, adhesive paper labels, and so forth.)
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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14. October 2008 @ 13:43 |
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Thank you VERY much for your 2 cents. Much appreciated.
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Peshtigo
Senior Member
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14. October 2008 @ 14:31 |
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There is absolutely no dispute (at least by me) that quality DVD and CD discs that are burned and stored with ideal procedures will last and be functional for fifty to one hundred years or more. The same applies to present day computer harddrives. The consideration should be: Where would someone find the hardware to read or play them? Museum? Laboratory? Think eight-track tape, Sony Betamax videotape, laserdisc, and soon, photo film. And as technology advances at an ever increasing speed, it would appear fairly obvious to most people that data storage will never become "future-proof". The best we can do is to create quality archives and backups that are dependable for the "relatively" short term and update our data storage as needed.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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14. October 2008 @ 14:46 |
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Now heres my 2 cents. Please be aware its merely my opinion. I am very green. Ive watched dvd archive size increase over time. I.E 4470MB -4489MB Depending on Manufacturer. Verbatim seems to cling on to 4482 where TY averages, infact i have not seen less than 4489. I dont use the full disc though. I go with 4481 so it will fit on a verbatim if needs be. 1MB seems to be enough for any program to close disc. I do see and concur with the physics that have been explained in this forum, However I believe that TY and Verbatim make Highly good media. And my burners i believe to be the best ive seen. I run quality scans regularly. There is nothing to suggest that it has problems (or errors) at the end of the discs. With the exception of an aging burner i have, that has a curious clickiing vibration. Maybe what the industry should do is go to the mini form factor! I realize that the physics of making the discs doesnt change but it does decrease the odds of the problems on the outer layer. In my opinion, they should have done it with bluray. Waited a little longer and expanded the technology. I.E 25GB mini BD. I realize thats 3x blurays current capability. Though now ive seen talk of Multiple new formats. I.E Holographic versatile disc, multi layer bluray, etc.
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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14. October 2008 @ 16:11 |
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The newer and more sophisticated the technology, the greater the risk of problems. The most stable tape formulation is standard ferric oxide. Hard drives with longitudinal recording are more stable than those with perpendicular recording. CD-Rs are twice as stable as DVDs, and the first Blu-ray production was "archival quality" only for a grocery list. (Flatness is so critical with Blu-ray that the laser nearly touches the disc; and the recording surface is on the bottom of the disc, not the top as in CD-Rs or in the middle as for DVDs.)
There are 8 cm DVD discs, and they are physically more stable than the full-size versions. Low production makes them relatively more expensive, so you have the choice of paying twice as much to record one-fourth the amount on a regular DVD or paying the same amount and recording only two-thirds the disc if you want to play it safe. Seems like the latter makes more economic sense.
The point about obsolescense is well taken. The more sophisticated the medium, the greater risk of data loss and inability to retrieve the data. The longest lasting records are cave paintings and cuneiform pottery shards. The first are still "legible"; the second can be interpreted if one knows how to read the marks. Edison's wax cylinders can still be played back, but each playing damages them a bit. The magnetic tape recording from 1935 can still be played with a simple magnetic head; but once digital algorithms and precisely defined laser wavelengths enter the picture, it becomes ever more difficult to rebuild a player to work with digital media. Engineers estimate that a successful format for any particular medium will last thirty years, and the media ought to last twice as long. In that 30-year period the recorded data need to be transferred from older formats to newer ones. Digital recording allows that with a minimum of degradation in the transfer. CD-Rs have about 13 years on them as a successful format, so they should be seeing a decline soon. DVDs have about 7 years. Blu-ray will not be the replacement for either. Keep your discs safe and wait for holographic recording. (Flash is not stable enough, and manufacturers have already moved from the safer single layer versions to multi-layer versions with only one-tenth the estimated recording life.)
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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14. October 2008 @ 16:40 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
pirates'r'us... I have 13.4TB of hdd space given over to films. You can't always guarantee being able to download it if you get an order ;)
Jealousy much? :O <------- JEALOUS. I have 2TB+ and most of my friends are jealous. Sure is alot of data to lose at once though.
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Peshtigo
Senior Member
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14. October 2008 @ 17:19 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
Originally posted by varnull:
pirates'r'us... I have 13.4TB of hdd space given over to films. You can't always guarantee being able to download it if you get an order ;)
Jealousy much? :O <------- JEALOUS. I have 2TB+ and most of my friends are jealous. Sure is alot of data to lose at once though.
A typical case of "who can build the biggest garage to keep the most junk in it?".
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. October 2008 @ 01:32 |
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Antec 1200 Full-Tower Case/Thermaltake 750-Watt PS/ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77 Mobo/Western Digital Black WD500 500GB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache/NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express Video Card/CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM 16GB DDR3 /Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo)/CORSAIR Hydro High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler/3-Asus DRW-24B1ST Sata Drives/Samsung 2493HM 24" LCD Monitior 1920x1200 resolution,5ms respone time/OS Windows 10 Pro SP1 64-bit
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. October 2008 @ 01:37
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Senior Member
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24. October 2008 @ 16:30 |
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That is a big garage..., and this is a interesting and helpful topic. Sorry to bump this thread but i just feel like posting and saying thanks, for these long educational posts.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. October 2008 @ 16:33
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tommyd13
Member
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27. October 2008 @ 19:34 |
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I was thinking of setting up 2 TB HDD to be run on a home theater setup. Anyone have a good link to a how-to?
BTW-that is one nice car collection, but seriously, i think someone's mother should've taught him to share.......I want one =(
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Senior Member
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27. October 2008 @ 20:14 |
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Originally posted by ZoSoIV:
Originally posted by Peshtigo:
A typical case of "who can build the biggest garage to keep the most junk in it?
this guy would be the winner althought its far from junk lol!
http://69.89.25.185/~trexsoft/t-rexsoftw...ion.htm
Actually, that one is quite small. There is a housing developer from Arizona (Ron Pratte, I believe is his name) who has in excess of 200 cars in his collection, including a full size bus!!. I always see him when the Barrett=Jackson auctions come on. Here he is a couple years ago bidding on Carol Shelby's Cobra Super Snake and a winning bid of $5 million!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPES8hxU4dM
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