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DVD Shrink: what is the quality of the final copy?
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bigrod
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30. May 2004 @ 15:45 |
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Please assist a newbie: I have downloaded the software, played with the menus and read thru the posts. However, before I purchase a burner (I plan on buying a Plextor 708a and only using the highest quality Verbatim or Ritek DVD+R blanks) I would like to know what the viewable quality of the copies looks like compared to the originals.
I have tested the compression ratios on about 4 DVD's and see that they tend to fall in the range of 50-60 percent (with everything I can get rid of unchecked).
If I just used DVD shrink, what would I notice in terms of "lack of quality" in the copy as opposed to the original (assuming I use Nero to burn).
I have noticed that many new movies have two copies on the DVD (widescreen & standard) and I could use DVD Stripper & Decrypter to enable me to only have to copy one version of the movie. Would this give me noticably better quality since the compression ratio would be less.
Hopefully you can tell that I have done my "homework" and would just like some feedback on the "final product quality"...something I have not found when reading through the posts.
Thank you in advance.
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Moderator
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30. May 2004 @ 17:16 |
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I play them on 27" and 32" tvs and I think the quality is great. Some have played them on 50+" HDTV's and say quality is great.
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. May 2004 @ 17:32 |
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Hi bigrod,
You should be prepared to live without the menu and extras if you want to get your compression in the more reasonable 70%+ area. Just re-author and select the main movie only. Thats what you see when you watch it in the theater anyhow.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and compression numbers in the 80%+ range look just like the original DVD. But opinions vary and my TV is not anything special. It will look better than a VCR version.
When you look at a couple of different versions of the same movie, it is really only the same set of files. The navigation information will just play that data in a way that will reflect the choice you made with your DVD player's controls. Picking one or the other to back up just locks the nav info for that particular version.
Shrink makes it look like there are two or more movies on an original disc, but there is just no way there is 10-20+ GB on a DVD-9.
I recommend movie only back-ups if doing the entire thing results in compression numbers below 70%. That would rule out doing a wide screen/full screen back-up unless it is a really short movie.
These are just my opinions so experiment and have fun!
Welcome to Afterdawn!
Cheers,
Frank
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pa104inf
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30. May 2004 @ 18:06 |
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From what I understand, if you have a normal TV (Non-HD) you take the compression down to as low as 35% and you wouldn't notice a difference from the original DVD. I understand there is a noticeable difference when playing a compressed DVD on an HDTV.
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ScubaPete
AfterDawn Addict
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30. May 2004 @ 19:31 |
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Hi there bigrod, welcome aboard.
Up until a few short weeks ago, there would have been no answer to the questions you have posed. The closest I would have been able to get would be to tell you that whenever you backup a DVD-5 (<4.36 GB in size) it would result in a perfect 1:1 backup. Exactly the same as the original.
So that you?ll appriciate the speed of technology, let me give you the answer PRIOR to 05/17/2004 as well as your final answer -
The difference of 4.7GB DVD and 4.36GB DVD -
Quote:
DVD disc manufacturers love to use marketing terms and sell their discs as 4.7GB discs, but this is not true -- the 4.7GB is calculated by using so-called "Japanese gigabytes", where the power of calculations is 1,000 instead of 1,024 (and 1.024 is the correct way to calculate everything in computer world -- so, 1024 megabytes == 1 gigabyte). Manufacturers do this false advertising all the time so you think you are getting more than you are, They do it with Hard Drives also so if you buy a 120GB Hard Drive it isn't really 120GB it is actually more like 114GB. (I think that's right - lol) At any rate, we prefer to calculate the available writing space on a DVD as 4.36GB to include the reverse math and also provide a bit of room for overhead :-)
Now just a slight addition. When we say a DVD is a DVD-5 that means that the movie is Less than 4.36 GB in size. When a DVD is that small we can copy it using DVD Decrypter all by itself. First by reading it in the ISO mode, then writing it in the ISO mode. The resulting copy is a perfect 1:1 backup because absolutely no compression was required. To put it simpler, a backup of a DVD-5 is EXACTLY the same as the original.
Consequently, a DVD-9 discs that means a single-sided dual-layer DVD disc. DVD-9's can hold approximately 7.95 gigabytes of data even though marketers like to use the 8.5GB value instead. DVD-9 DVD-Video discs are problematic for DVD-R owners, because writable DVD discs can only hold the same amount of data that DVD-5 discs contain, due technical reasons.
Therefore any DVD holding more than 4.36GB we refer to as a DVD-9. You will find that more than 50% of the newer DVD's falls into that category. As a pretty good rule, if the DVD has "Special Effects" (those things that we have grown to love so well, it is most likely a DVD-9. A DVD-9 requires compression to one extent or another in order to get it to fit onto a single DVD. The more compression, the less quality. The quality in most cases can only be seen in a "Paused" single picture, sectional comparison with a good bit of studying. When watching the movie one would hard pressed to tell the difference with the naked eye. (No, we're not doing any eye clothing jokes. You wear your eye clothes and me; I'll let my eyes go naked. If you're embarrassed then just don't look into my eyes :-)
Here's a comparison between different backup programs.
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/114/8
05/21/2004, UPDATE:
As of the above date, Dual-layered, 4X, +R Disc Burners are now available to the public at somewhere around the $240.00 (USD) price tag. Within the next week or two (from the above date) Dual-layered, Single-sided, X4 +R media will also be available for as low as $5.20 9USD) ea. (in lots of 100).
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU AND I ?
Simply it means that if you don't mind burning $5.25 + (USD) a piece media, every single DVD backup you make will be EXACTLT the same as the original DVD you made it from.
So there ya go, what couldn?t be done is now possible - Lucky you -
If you wish, your backups will be EXCATLY the same as the original -
Cheers my friend,
Pete
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bigrod
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31. May 2004 @ 02:18 |
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I would like to thank everyone so far for their replies...I am getting a great "feel" for what I can expect in the final product.
This is a great "board" and I am learning a lot here.
thanks
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gort9k
Junior Member
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31. May 2004 @ 03:39 |
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I'd like to add to the previous comments:
As said previously, if the DVD you're backing up is DVD-5..., well, you just use DVD Decypter in iso mode and tha's all.
When you find yourself with a DVD-9... Then you'll have to decide whether you want only the movie, or you'll want menus, extras, languages, etc. Sometimes if you strip everything and leave only the movie with your choosen language, youl'll find the movie fits in a DVD-5 media. So you won't have to shrink it, getting the original quality. This is a point to take on account whe doing the backup.
Lately I've found a new way to backup movies, with a outstanding quality. Actually, I think we aren't going to find a better (quality oriented) result:
DVD Rebuilder is a tool that lets you use what is considered the best enconding app of all, Cinema Craft Encoder. With DVD-Rb you use CCE even if you don't know an iota about that program. And the final result is outstanding. It takes a bit longer than DVDShrink, about 4 hours, but I think it is worth the time. Just give it a try.
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Junior Member
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31. May 2004 @ 03:59 |
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I have been using DVD Shrink with Nero 6 Ultra which is supported if you go to preferences and have the "Burn with Nero" checked and the quality for a copy is great. I use Ritek DVD-R's because of their quality. I've tried about every DVD-R out there and I tend to favor Ritek by far. Also I use the -R rather than +R because that format was the original format and is supported by more stand alone DVD Players. The only time I use +R's is for multi session work which cannot be done with -R's. And about compression with DVD Shrink of course less is better and I prefer to remove stuff like multi languages, FBI copy guarded warnings, extra audio outputs that I don't use and things like that. I always keep the menu because of the ease of finding things in a movie fast. DVD Shrink with Nero 6 Ultra is definetly a winner!!!
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bigrod
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31. May 2004 @ 04:01 |
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GORTK:
Thanks for the addendum. However, when I read the discussion boards on DVD Rebuilder, it does not look quite like it is "ready for prime time" yet...appears to be more of an experimental product at this stage.
Do you have any other thoughts?
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bigrod
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31. May 2004 @ 04:05 |
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MANESTLE:
I just bought a new player for my televison which says it is DVD+R compatible. I am assuming I can ONLY use the DVD+R (excluding commercial DVD's)...ie I am assuming that unless explicitly stated, a DVD+R player is NOT backward compatible to DVD-R...Please correct me if I am wrong.
thanks.
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brobear
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31. May 2004 @ 06:18 |
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bigrod,
You asked: I have noticed that many new movies have two copies on the DVD (widescreen & standard) and I could use DVD Stripper &
Decrypter to enable me to only have to copy one version of the movie. Would this give me noticably better quality since the compression ratio would be less.
As a movie buff, I have seen a lot of movies. The new movies 'Secondhand Lions' and 'I spy' and a release of 'John Wayne's - The Searchers' are three of the 'full and wide' formats. Someone correct me If I am wrong here. I believe the studios use 2 different methods.
With 'Secondhand Lions' I could only backup a widescreen version. I believe the full screen was achieved by the 'Pan & Scan' technology.
The disc with 'The Searchers' actually had 2 movies on it. I backed up both the widescreen and the full screen versions (with no compression).
I used a software program that would edit and leave the menu function. That is the only shortcoming with DVD Shrink (maybe they'll fix that in the future). They steered you right though, DVD Shrink is one of the better programs out there. Shrink has so many uses to, and they don't list all of them in the books; i.e. scanning recorded discs for faults.
The way to find out is to use DVD Shrink and go into re-author. If there are 2 movies in the main movie files you may have a disc with 2
movies. To be sure what they are, use the preview option and check them out. There are some good later edition guides for software on
Doom9.org as well as the ones here at AfterDawn.
I noticed ScubaPete mentioned ISO files. He is definitely right, go Pete. Another good tool you might want to check out is DAEMON, a disc emulator. Its a freebie download and has a lot of uses with the ISO files. Use the search and the keyword DAEMON (case sensitive, 2 sets of results). I wrote a quick explanation before, so I won't get too windy here.
I read an article here on AfterDawn last year, don't remember the title. It listed the merits of DVD Decrypter, DAEMON, DVD Shrink,
Nero, and ImgTool. With all of these, I haven't gotten around to the ImgTool. Over the last year, I have been backing up my video library and all except the ImgTool have had a good work out. They have worked great. I am experimenting with some other software that is retail. Don't know if anyone wants to hear about that on this thread.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. May 2004 @ 06:31
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gort9k
Junior Member
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31. May 2004 @ 09:38 |
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Bigrod:
I know DVD Rebuilder looks impressive at first look. And some people could thinh it is not well suited to first timers. But I can assure you that is not so. I've been using, for quite a time now, one click solutions (dvdshrink, Dvd2one). They work right, they are easy to use, and the final result uses to be good. And I do advice its use. But quality wise... DVD Rebuilder beats them.
If you use DVD Rebuilder and stick to the presets. You shouldn't have any problem. The only problem I got was choosing the right version of CCE (2.67+ worked for me). My last backup was LOTR TROTK, and I'd like you to see its quality. Fantastic.
Give it a try
p.s
of course, it takes about four hours to backup a movie, while DVD Shrink vould do the entire process in less than an hour
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Moderator
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31. May 2004 @ 09:45 |
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gort9k, where did you buy cce? The US site had no link to buy. Is yours a trial vers? On the CCE download page there is this line.
This is the latest version. For DVD2SVCD, please use Cinema Craft Encoder SP (CCE) v2.50 Trial instead.
Will DVD2SVCD do the same thing as CCD?
ehh, I found it.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. May 2004 @ 11:20
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PennRon
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31. May 2004 @ 11:16 |
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hi bigrod:
my 2 cents: I use shrink and get all my backups into the 80%-100% range. I burn with either imgtool or decrypter using verbatim +r's on a plextor 708. I watch them either on 27" flat screen panasonic or 34" 16x9 panasonic HD crt using new sony dvd players and I can't tell the difference from my originals. regards...
PennsylvaniaRon
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ScubaPete
AfterDawn Addict
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31. May 2004 @ 17:08 |
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Hi manestle, Since you have Nero 6 you're missing the boat entirely -
Use Nero recode2 - it operates much like DVD Shrink but you'll keep all your menus as fully functioning parts of your DVD. You'll have no difficulty removing all of the things you mentioned and have you menus too.
Hey bigrod,
Quote:
I just bought a new player for my televison which says it is DVD+R compatible. I am assuming I can ONLY use the DVD+R
I find it extremely difficult to believe it won't play -R media.
A sales "Gimmick" would be to take what was a -R DVD Player and then tout that it now was +R compatible.
Long gone are the days where a single media player would stand a chance on today?s market. I purchased a player for $39.00(USD) and it plays a Freeze-Bee. I feel fairly safe in saying your player will play any single-burn media. I see many players that will not play RW media - don't hold your breath on that one - lol
Cheers,
Hey there PennRon,
Ya got the NJ ScubaPete here - and I'll tell you what I tell others, You want to backup everything except useless audio, choose DVD Shrink and fry that Puppy with DVD Decrypter. If you wish to trim it to the bones, Nero?s recode2 has been long time under-rated, it really is pretty good..
My 2 cents -
Seeeeeeeeeee Yaaaaaaaaaaa,
Pete
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brobear
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31. May 2004 @ 17:56 |
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I have to agree with ScubaPete. Didn't know much about the Recode2. Now that I've been turned onto it, it is one of my best programs. Run it with anydvd and get great video even under high compression. The anydvd makes it as easy as pie.
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1. June 2004 @ 14:27 |
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Hey Pete, You're the one that turned me on to Recode 2, God, I've taken that bone and run with it(i guess you can tell by all my threads). What a GREAT and SIMPLE program used in conjunction with Anydvd. Thanx eveer so much! 
 GO VOLS !This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. June 2004 @ 01:34
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bigrod
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1. June 2004 @ 15:48 |
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Due to your great suggestions, I did some research on Recode 2 and found this great step-by-step guide that demonstrates how to use Recode2 with Decrypter and other products:
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/nerodigital.htm
thanks again....bigrod
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ScubaPete
AfterDawn Addict
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1. June 2004 @ 16:44 |
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Hey there brobear and de "Big" OJ,
Glad you guys have seen the light -
It is a fun proggy :P) Far, far to underrated -
"P"
Quote:
I did some research on Recode 2 and found this great step-by-step guide that demonstrates how to use Recode2 with Decrypter and other products:
Hey there bigrod,
Actually your Guide is to make MP4 file which can?t be played on anything else than a PC - Where is the use ??
You might want to do some more research on why using DVD Decrypter isn't all that good ESPECIALLY when you have a proggy like DVD43 to use -
Even your Guide tells you that. Actually you have no use for Daemon tool, DVD Decrypter OR img Tool in that guide at all -
What is it I?m missing ?
Please enlighten me -
Pete
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nsun38
Newbie
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3. June 2004 @ 11:57 |
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Here is the 2 cents from another newbie. I can tell big differences (in playing and in pause mode) with compressed movies on my 65" Mitsubishi rear projection TV.
Of course, I am very picky i.e. I was able to tell my newly installed door frame is crocked with my naked eyes. In stead of arguing, I own the bet from the contractor. The door frame is off by .12 inches after measuring.
However, since widescreen is mentioned, I like to ask the following question. (Please feel free to kick me out of this thread if it is out of subject matteer.)
I actually like to convert from full screen to 16:9 widescreen (=to fill up my tv display area.) Is there a freeware I can download? And is it easy to use?
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brobear
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3. June 2004 @ 14:43 |
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Hey pete,
I remember what you told me, if you're not using DVD43 or AnyDVD you're wasting a lot of time.
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ScubaPete
AfterDawn Addict
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3. June 2004 @ 15:43 |
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{quote]I remember what you told me, if you're not using DVD43 or AnyDVD you're wasting a lot of time.
When and Where did I say that ????
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brobear
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4. June 2004 @ 03:10 |
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Speaking in reference to when you were acclaiming the laurels of recode and how good and time saving DVD43 was. 1 + 1; Previous posts and they may not have been directed right at me.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. June 2004 @ 03:12
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. June 2004 @ 05:49 |
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DVD43 works ok but if you have to rip the disk anyway and rippers also decrypt, then doesn't that make DVD43 redundant?
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. June 2004 @ 05:49
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. June 2004 @ 06:42 |
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Sophocles, not if you're using it in conjunction with recode, because recode doesn't rip. With DVD43 running-one step, open Nero.
GO VOLS !
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. June 2004 @ 01:34
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