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Capitalism vs Communism
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Staff Member
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11. July 2004 @ 20:44 |
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Hello :-)
I would like to have a debate about Capitalism and Communism. Unfortunately I really don't know which to go for either, but this is the way I see it. Capitalism is basically, you get what you get yourself, you earn money and the more you earn the more you have where as communism is basically like everybody gets the same, not exactly the same but pretty much that way!
So if communism sounds like a good idea, then why the hell isnt every1 communist? Well basically the way i see it is that nearly every government on the planet is gone capitalist. Most politicians are very rich people so why the hell would they give up being more powerful than you? Im not against capitalism at all, but im not against communism either! Capitalism can be good and bad just like communism, for example, Capitalism and Music should never have met, but still the big 5 Labels pay radio stations to only play the copyrighted material they bought and dump the rest! Thats severely bad because its like a bunch of guys putting a choke chain around every musicial artists throat in the world and giving it a good pull. Communism on the other hand, may seem like a good idea BUT, would it ever really work? There are a LOT of people out there, could we all just take pretty much the same? I dunno, You decide :-)
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Moderator
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11. July 2004 @ 21:03 |
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Communism sounds fantastic in theory but simply doesn't work in practice.
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
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"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 |
Staff Member
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11. July 2004 @ 21:12 |
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Yes this is apparent! But is it TRUE? think about it? who would tell the world that it doesnt work in practice? probably governments right? well, look at most governments, like maybe the U.S. Government, they seem very Capitalist to me lmao! Communism would make them sick! very sick lol so they would and could lie to stop it from ever becoming reality! The power of the vote rules the world man!
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Praetor
Moderator
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11. July 2004 @ 21:56 |
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Quote:
Communism sounds fantastic in theory but simply doesn't work in practice.
Yeah because people are too damn greedy :(
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Moderator
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11. July 2004 @ 22:31 |
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who would tell the world that it doesnt work in practice? probably governments right?
Nobody has to be told, it's a visible fact that communism doesn't work on a large scale. Since China realized that by incorporating certain capitalististic practices they've had immense economic benefits from it. Russia simply crumbled from the inside, it could no longer sustain itself and North Korea is a country that has nuclear technology yet most of it's population lives in poverty - that's communism in practice.
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Yeah because people are too damn greedy :(
Exactly, Praetor.
That's why no system of government will ever come close to living up to it's true potential - the human factor will always prevent that.
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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Praetor
Moderator
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11. July 2004 @ 23:17 |
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Damn humans.... all hail the Matrix! :P
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Staff Member
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11. July 2004 @ 23:33 |
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Aii, the greed in this world is horrible. The bad points of Capitalism emerges, wars are starting over money :S
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Xian
Senior Member
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12. July 2004 @ 04:35 |
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I think the reason communism fails is that it provides no incentives or rewards for the people in the system. No matter how hard you work, you come home at night to your goverment issued flat, the same as the person that does half the work that you do. There is no reason to work harder or better yourself since there is no reward for doing so. Innovation and efficiency are also lost since there is no incentive to improve.
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Moderator
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12. July 2004 @ 09:39 |
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Very, very good observation, Xian.
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. July 2004 @ 10:35 |
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Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned. Socialism is the economical consequence, and a subset, of statism. Statism is "any system that concentrates power in the state at the expense of individual freedom". Socialism is a form of statism which advocates collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.
Capitalism is the only system which does not deprive the individual of his rights, therefore from a Human Rights basis, capitolism is the only form that will work. In theory, communism has some excellent benefits that in practice are never realised.
Capitalism is often accused of creating a lot of disparity between social classes, causing more poverty. But is this a valid concern ?
The socialist solution to poverty is a short-term solution, in the sense that social programs do not bring lasting value to the individual.
Instead, the capitalist system of no redistribution of resources does not help poverty in short term but by making social conditions improve by progress (more jobs, wealth), it helps to eradicate poverty much more efficiently. The long term answer to poverty is creating jobs and a better standard of life thru technology. On the other hand, socialism stops progress, which means that social conditions cannot improve.
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BatWick
Newbie
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13. July 2004 @ 06:22 |
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The fact capitalism promotes greed is the best thing about it, after all what do firms strive for? profits.
When a firm makes a profit it means it has provided a good or service to a customer, who has rewarded it with a profit. This is what makes capitalism the only viable system, to paraphrase Adam Smith, people acting in their own self interest leads to the best outcome for us all.
It has also been said that capitalism is inevitable, Murray Rothbard made this argument - capitalism is voluntary activity in society, characterised by trade. Capitalism is freedom - the freedom to do what you want, trade with who you want, work for, with who you want. Ny other system leads to tyranny and must be enforced by violence.
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Staff Member
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13. July 2004 @ 12:18 |
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I'm kind of standing in the middle really, because each has its good and bad points, capitalism is by far the best choice when it comes to motivating people I guess! I dunno, tis one that will last forever! lol
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Xian
Senior Member
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13. July 2004 @ 18:00 |
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When I think of Communism, the thing that stands out most in my mind when I remember the travel I did in China was the restrictions on everyday things that I take for granted. For example, since I was a foreigner I was pretty much able to travel about freely. A Chinese citizen had travel restrictions. They had an internal passport system so if you lived in one area you might not be allowed to travel to another area. Imagine living in Dublin and not being allowed to travel to Cork, living in New York and not being allowed to travel to California. The restrictions on freedom of speech, religion, Internet usage, or even the number of children you are allowed to have are things that would never be tolerated in a free society.
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Staff Member
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13. July 2004 @ 18:05 |
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Ye good point mate!
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Praetor
Moderator
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13. July 2004 @ 19:14 |
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Quote:
The power of the vote rules the world man!
Maybe over ther m8 but not in North America. Votes dont mean shit
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Staff Member
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13. July 2004 @ 20:09 |
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Well, some democracy you have then! lol, here however, the vote does rule!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. July 2004 @ 20:11
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Praetor
Moderator
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13. July 2004 @ 21:13 |
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LOL the votes count here too but then "special interest" groups kick in :P
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siber
Member
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13. July 2004 @ 21:25 |
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Somebody said it much better than I can repeat here: a society is not judged by how the vote empowers the majority but by how it treats and respects its minorities.
The very definition of a minority (political, ethnic, social, etc) can be construed in such a way that a society can feel relatively good about ignoring it.
Communism has a dismal record when it comes to treating its minorities. Capitalism has set up some rules by which it wants to treat it minorities and generally has a better record than communism in this regard.
Nevertheless, within Capitalism and so-called democratic systems, there remain many interpretations of fairness towards minorities.
The understanding of this subject - although fascinating - will never lead to a consensus among people. Even within the confines of a single household there is going to be disagreement. Good luck, Dela, Praetor, Nephilim, with this one...
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Bitcount
Account closed as per user's own request
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13. July 2004 @ 22:42 |
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Communism looks good on paper, but of course has a bad habit of being implemented after bloody revolutions (against capitalistic or autocratic gov's)by not so nice people who tend to continue the "revolution" for years.
Capitalism offers the chance for wealth, but in its purest form leads to a concentration of wealth & power in the hands of a few uber-fatcats. Thus creating the possibility of bloody revolution (a very BAD thing) much like my first point.
So they both kinda suck...
I say, regulate corporations, and not people: socialism-lite.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
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Staff Member
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13. July 2004 @ 22:43 |
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You are all very intelligent people, uve given my new things to think about in the question of capitalism or communism, thank you :-) Keep it coming :-)
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The_Bhoy
Suspended permanently
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14. July 2004 @ 04:30 |
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Keep away from communism it destroyed eastern europe
Hail Hail We Won The League!
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Staff Member
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14. July 2004 @ 08:59 |
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true, but if you look at the damage capitalism is doing now too mate i dont think either can say it doesnt destroy the world! eg Wars over money etc
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asterisk
Newbie
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14. July 2004 @ 09:32 |
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Abstract conversations about the values of any economic system are meaningless in a certain sense because they're not mutually exclusive. There is no "purely capitalist" society today - every state with capitalistic practices has to a certain extent accepted socialized practices such as social welfare. Most people have accepted that even with a globalized society, the world operates through a statist lens, which means that government, not the "free market," will make large decisions that affect people's lives. And while in theory capitalism produces winners, there must exist a certain group that loses. The notion that no one will be poor or suffer is as inane as the utopian claims that underpin socialism. The anarcho-capitalists who think that the state shouldn't protect rights seem to miss that even in free civil societies, the state is still the dominant actor. Every attempt to challenge "big government" a la Ronald Reagan has simply lead to the expansion of government influence at the expense of the market.
Rant over.
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Staff Member
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14. July 2004 @ 09:35 |
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Nice Rant :-) lol Some interesting points there too!
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Xian
Senior Member
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14. July 2004 @ 10:16 |
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The problem with Capitalism is that eventually the money and power are held by too few people. The system starts to break down when the people that hold the purse strings have too much influence in the government and decision making processes. Laws are then passed to their benefit, not the common man. Look at the intense lobbying that the RIAA, MPAA, Oil companies, and other special interests do to get laws passed that benefit them. Monopolies are allowed to run any competition into the ground, further strenghtening their hold. Convicted monopolists (Microsoft) get off with a slap on the wrist. The political process has been usurped since the politicians rely on the campaign contributions and have to be in bed with companies that are only looking out for their own interests, instead of the interests of their constituents.
I don't know what the answer is to the above problem. Some steps have to be taken by the voters. If an elected official is voting in ways that are clearly against the majority of their citizen's wishes, vote them out. The problem with that is that more than likely the next politician has sold his soul to the same special interests for the same reasons; the campaign contributions and endorsments, backroom deals where promises are made "I will locate a factory that will create jobs in your district if you vote this way on this bill", and the like.
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