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More RAM or Faster HDD?
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LightXxX
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11. November 2010 @ 13:29 |
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Hi, i was wonder, is the fastest HDD better or more RAM is better? I heard that the faster the HDD the better the Cache(PageFile) would be higher and use more processes to increase speed... And people always said Getting MORE RAM well increase system speed or processes... Which is better: Faster HHD($700-%800(250 Capicity) for about ummmm 3-10GB Cache?) or more RAM($400 for a 4GB RAM 2000MHz(Single))?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. November 2010 @ 18:49
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ddp
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11. November 2010 @ 16:29 |
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depends on what you have to begin with.
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LightXxX
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11. November 2010 @ 18:48 |
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Originally posted by ddp:
depends on what you have to begin with.
Well im just asking if More RAM is better or a Faster HDD is better... I use HDD for Caches(PageFile) and as for the RAM, it's slower than an HDD(Not Regular ONES(16MB Cache))
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ddp
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11. November 2010 @ 21:37 |
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ram is faster then hd maybe even faster then ssd. it depends on the system, the windows & the applications to which you need for more ram or faster hd. the 1 part you are missing is the cpu as that also determines how fast a system is.
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LightXxX
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11. November 2010 @ 21:58 |
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Originally posted by ddp:
ram is faster then hd maybe even faster then ssd. it depends on the system, the windows & the applications to which you need for more ram or faster hd. the 1 part you are missing is the cpu as that also determines how fast a system is.
What do you mean? The Usage or The Speed? So even a 800MHz RAM is still faster than the fastest HDD now? Or a 2000MHz RAM(Or All RAM?) faster than than the HDD? BTW i alwasys wanted to askabout this question, "Does increasing the RAM(to 16GB) and disabling PagingFiles make my computer faster?" BTW what's the max ram i can get right now like any ram(Ex. Single RAM:32GB) How much RAM can i get with four slot?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. November 2010 @ 22:11
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ddp
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11. November 2010 @ 22:31 |
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doesn't matter what the speed of ram is even pc100 ram is faster then a hard drive. depends on the motherboard what the max amount of ram can be had & will need a 64bit windows to read past 3.25-3.5 gigs of ram.
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ps355528
Senior Member
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12. November 2010 @ 08:39 |
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What is the point of this discussion?.. neither make a crap of difference as the real speed is dictated by the cpu clock and the fsb speed... add to that operating system overhead and there is the biggest slowdown.
The fastest systems come about when the entire system is built using a systems engineering approach, not by just shoving at random the "fastest" pile of bits in a box regardless.. there is no point sticking fast ram on a board which doesn't support it.. and as for a faster hdd?.. strewth.. when people are using a pile of crap operating system which is taking 60% of available system cycles just looking pretty it's a waste of time even considering so called "hardware improvements" .. it's not the hardware causing the problem.. it's the amount of tsr bloat and unnecessary garbage running that slows everything down.. not the hardware...
A quite modest system built where everything is designed as a whole instead of just thrown together will outstrip something costing far more but which is mismatched.
Want a significant performance boost?.. ditch the bloated software
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LightXxX
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12. November 2010 @ 13:59 |
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Originally posted by ps355528:
What is the point of this discussion?.. neither make a crap of difference as the real speed is dictated by the cpu clock and the fsb speed... add to that operating system overhead and there is the biggest slowdown.
The fastest systems come about when the entire system is built using a systems engineering approach, not by just shoving at random the "fastest" pile of bits in a box regardless.. there is no point sticking fast ram on a board which doesn't support it.. and as for a faster hdd?.. strewth.. when people are using a pile of crap operating system which is taking 60% of available system cycles just looking pretty it's a waste of time even considering so called "hardware improvements" .. it's not the hardware causing the problem.. it's the amount of tsr bloat and unnecessary garbage running that slows everything down.. not the hardware...
A quite modest system built where everything is designed as a whole instead of just thrown together will outstrip something costing far more but which is mismatched.
Want a significant performance boost?.. ditch the bloated software
Well i heard that if you disable the PagingFile and use more RAM, it can go faster... They keep saying RAM is faster than a HDD... All i want to know if i can use cache on the fastest HDD or Buy more RAM and put it on my CPU so my CPU wouldn't go to 100% or to be able to run games or software(s) without any slowness or lags... BTW when i disabled the PagingFiles, the RAM get used more and than it reached 80% when i open more then 10-15 IE browser at MSN homepage (4GB RAM 2x2GB) it stay at 40-60% when i use Paging files which so no speed and can slow my computer down if the paging file is being used too much... This isnt really my comp, it's my bro and i just want to know if RAM can do more speed or HDD can do more speed with the caching(PageFile)
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13. December 2010 @ 11:55 |
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Each system is different, and buying the best of the best and throwing it all in a case and expecting it to be the best is not how it works, you have to buy parts around all the other hardware your putting in it, a good idea is to start with the motherboard, and remember that the computer will only run as fast as the weakest link mainly being the HDD, so depending on what your running for an OS like vista or win 7 you can put a usb drive in and use speed boost and it will give you that much more in your pageing file.
But thats not going to give you more speed when your trying to read or write to or from the HDD like opening programs or games and the time it takes to see it open on your screen from clicking on it , what you have to do there is get a higher RPM drive like 7500 or 10,000 and a higher seek time, and ram is where the comp puts things its useing as to speak, like bringing out tools to work on something and not putting them away untell your done then it saves changes and back to the HDD it goes, and i dont know any reason why you would have to run 15 diff IE browsers just use tabs, but if you want speed start with the motherboard and CPU, cause by your question there's no specific answer you need to get whats best for your system and to me it sounds like you need a faster CPU and/or motherboard cause then the CPU can handle the workload put on it and have prcessing power to spare therefore no more high CPU useage.
hope this helped and i did get a bit off topic but thought this could make one think in a different direction and remember CPU is speed !:) cheers
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LightXxX
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13. December 2010 @ 23:25 |
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Originally posted by lowpro804:
Each system is different, and buying the best of the best and throwing it all in a case and expecting it to be the best is not how it works, you have to buy parts around all the other hardware your putting in it, a good idea is to start with the motherboard, and remember that the computer will only run as fast as the weakest link mainly being the HDD, so depending on what your running for an OS like vista or win 7 you can put a usb drive in and use speed boost and it will give you that much more in your pageing file.
But thats not going to give you more speed when your trying to read or write to or from the HDD like opening programs or games and the time it takes to see it open on your screen from clicking on it , what you have to do there is get a higher RPM drive like 7500 or 10,000 and a higher seek time, and ram is where the comp puts things its useing as to speak, like bringing out tools to work on something and not putting them away untell your done then it saves changes and back to the HDD it goes, and i dont know any reason why you would have to run 15 diff IE browsers just use tabs, but if you want speed start with the motherboard and CPU, cause by your question there's no specific answer you need to get whats best for your system and to me it sounds like you need a faster CPU and/or motherboard cause then the CPU can handle the workload put on it and have prcessing power to spare therefore no more high CPU useage.
hope this helped and i did get a bit off topic but thought this could make one think in a different direction and remember CPU is speed !:) cheers
I found a great site for a customized PC but is it a real site to get computers?(http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/) BTW Why does when i open Task manager it takes a lot of CPU usage for like few second? I open it on my bro fast Comptuer(Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit) at 3.5GHz(OC from 2.83GHz) with 4GB RAM and the CPU usage went to almost 40% and than back to 0-3% My bro computer isn't ment for gaming(but good tho) but for software and stuff like "Adobe Creative Suite 5-64-Bit Edition"... My bro comp was built and he has a lot of knowledge in building computers(Suite for what he want to use for...) he built his computer with items from PriceWatch.COM... I just want to customize/built one myself when i grow up(Im 13) or whe nmy bro want to buy me one and i just want to ask if i can Speed my computer/CPU from beign too slow for running software or stuff... Ready boost dont help at all... Paging Files slow my comp down and i just want to know if paging files on faster HDD(240GB for $800) makes a real big different or more ram but it seem more ram that's needed to make CPU usage lower when running or opening software and faster(I know Faster HDD asses files faster but not Paging Files...) Disabling Paging Files is better than making lots of PF since HDD is slower...
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14. December 2010 @ 00:12 |
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Ok well i see what your asking i just think you misunderstand a step ot two here so think of it this way, you have ram that stores whatever you may be useing at whatever time like programs and the files they need at any time and thats a chip on the board moreless so now you have you page file or swap file, that is a section of hard drive space that is used for something like ram, so keep in mind that ram will be faster then you HDD,
Now a large page file is beneficial for a couple different reasons. It gives Windows extra room to store temporary data and programs if it runs out of RAM (which tends to happen when you have a lot of windows open at once). It also allows some recovery of data if there is an unexpected system crash. But having a large page file can also slow down your computer in some instances. It takes your computer a lot longer to access data stored on the hard drive than it does to access data stored in RAM.
Since the page file is part of the hard drive, Windows will noticeably slow down when it is reading data from the page file. A larger page file, while it does provide more space for temporary storage, can also cause more performance issues as it will take Windows longer to search through it for the specific data it wants.
An alternative to this slowdown is to disable the page file. There are pros and cons to this approach, and each user will have to determine whether or not the page file is beneficial to them or not. By disabling the page file, you are forcing Windows to use RAM for storage of open programs and data, which is great if you have enough RAM for everything you are running. If your computer runs out of memory and does not have the page file to fall back on, you may get frequent system crashes or memory errors. If you're going to disable your page file, you should make sure you have plenty of RAM installed first. RAM is cheap these days, so you can max out your system's RAM without shelling out a lot of cash.
So thats briefly what it does and to pay 800 for a 250GiG HDD seems way too steep lol, and computers will spike when they first try to open something that's normal its if it stays there while running whatever that you should be concerned, so my suggestion to you when you have some money to spend on a computer is to pick a CPU and motherboard that you like and is compatable with one another and then buy your ram, HDD, PSU (power supply unit) and any other personal effects you want like keyboard and mouse, soundcard and such but make sure all of it is compatable with everything else you got but the first thing and most important that i should have said before is that you have to ask yourself one question when building from scratch..." what do i want my computer to do for me"... and build around that, like a gameing computer or just something to run some programs and run the net
So hopefully this helps you understand it more and leads you into making the right and smart choices, and you say your 13 ! well thats a good time to start, experience is everything good luck ! :)
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ddp
Moderator
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14. December 2010 @ 18:13 |
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i paid $40Can plus tax for my 500gig sata3 last month. are you certain it wasn't $800 for your system which includes the 250gig hd?
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LightXxX
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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14. December 2010 @ 23:54 |
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Originally posted by ddp:
i paid $40Can plus tax for my 500gig sata3 last month. are you certain it wasn't $800 for your system which includes the 250gig hd?
The HDD im talking about is a really, really, REALLY fast HDD... Faster than those 10k RPM... IDK speed tho but it's really fast... i can get $150-$200 for a 3TB HDD 7200RPM(Slow)... The faster is the better and the quicker it accesses files IDK the transfer rate(Never known) but im sure it's more than 20k RPM speed... $260 for a 600GB at 10k RPM(Gaming HDD)... RPM is what it making the cost so high with it storage... And so, that's why i said a faster HDD or More ram... The really fast one can access file faster right? so if i put page file on it, my computer wouldn't slow?(only if on idle?)
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LightXxX
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14. December 2010 @ 23:58 |
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Originally posted by lowpro804:
Ok well i see what your asking i just think you misunderstand a step ot two here so think of it this way, you have ram that stores whatever you may be useing at whatever time like programs and the files they need at any time and thats a chip on the board moreless so now you have you page file or swap file, that is a section of hard drive space that is used for something like ram, so keep in mind that ram will be faster then you HDD,
Now a large page file is beneficial for a couple different reasons. It gives Windows extra room to store temporary data and programs if it runs out of RAM (which tends to happen when you have a lot of windows open at once). It also allows some recovery of data if there is an unexpected system crash. But having a large page file can also slow down your computer in some instances. It takes your computer a lot longer to access data stored on the hard drive than it does to access data stored in RAM.
Since the page file is part of the hard drive, Windows will noticeably slow down when it is reading data from the page file. A larger page file, while it does provide more space for temporary storage, can also cause more performance issues as it will take Windows longer to search through it for the specific data it wants.
An alternative to this slowdown is to disable the page file. There are pros and cons to this approach, and each user will have to determine whether or not the page file is beneficial to them or not. By disabling the page file, you are forcing Windows to use RAM for storage of open programs and data, which is great if you have enough RAM for everything you are running. If your computer runs out of memory and does not have the page file to fall back on, you may get frequent system crashes or memory errors. If you're going to disable your page file, you should make sure you have plenty of RAM installed first. RAM is cheap these days, so you can max out your system's RAM without shelling out a lot of cash.
So thats briefly what it does and to pay 800 for a 250GiG HDD seems way too steep lol, and computers will spike when they first try to open something that's normal its if it stays there while running whatever that you should be concerned, so my suggestion to you when you have some money to spend on a computer is to pick a CPU and motherboard that you like and is compatable with one another and then buy your ram, HDD, PSU (power supply unit) and any other personal effects you want like keyboard and mouse, soundcard and such but make sure all of it is compatable with everything else you got but the first thing and most important that i should have said before is that you have to ask yourself one question when building from scratch..." what do i want my computer to do for me"... and build around that, like a gameing computer or just something to run some programs and run the net
So hopefully this helps you understand it more and leads you into making the right and smart choices, and you say your 13 ! well thats a good time to start, experience is everything good luck ! :)
Well thanks for the comment "Good time to start at age 13..." BTW im turning 14(2010) What is the Minimum RAM for a Adobe CS5(Adobe Creative Suite 5) to Disable PageFiles? 8GB? 12GB? i would said 16GB recommended for no full RAM(My bro has CS5 and when he do a convert or something, it's at 1GB ram, he has 4GB-his comp was so slow with 3.59GHz and wasn't able to play came with CPU at 100%)...(MoBo got it max ram and i know it so don't tell me...) In the future, i well save 5K or so/more to built one and OC the CPU with 6GB/12GB/16GB/24GB 2000MHz RAM speed... Ganna built one with Intel best-Processor 1000X! :D(In Future if there ganna be Best Processor) BTW what's the MAXIMUM RAM in a single Bar? So far I only noticed 4GB...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. December 2010 @ 00:05
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Junior Member
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15. December 2010 @ 01:27 |
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Or if you really want speed out of a HDD google solid state HDD's they are pretty much ram the way they work lol,and here are some requierments i found
Intel® Core?2 Duo or AMD Phenom® II processor; 64-bit support required
64-bit operating system required: Microsoft® Windows Vista® Home Premium, Business, Ultimate, or Enterprise with Service Pack 1 or Windows® 7
2GB of RAM (4GB or more recommended)
10GB of available hard-disk space for installation; additional free space required during installation (cannot install on removable flash-based storage devices)
7200 RPM hard drive for editing compressed video formats; RAID 0 for uncompressed
1280x900 display with OpenGL 2.0?compatible graphics card
Adobe-certified GPU card for GPU-accelerated performance
Adobe-certified card for capture and export to tape for SD/HD workflows
OHCI-compatible IEEE 1394 port for DV and HDV capture, export to tape, and transmit to DV device
Sound card compatible with ASIO protocol or Microsoft Windows Driver Model
DVD-ROM drive compatible with dual-layer DVDs (DVD+-R burner for burning DVDs; Blu-ray burner for creating Blu-ray Disc media)
QuickTime 7.6.2 software required for QuickTime features
Broadband Internet connection required for online services
And if you ever need to know anythings system requirements then just google it like adobe cs5 system requirements thats all i did to get that, and bottom line is ....you should use both page file and ram at the same time like is set defult, if you get problems then do something but my system works great and that part of windows was left alone by me cause its fine :)
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LightXxX
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15. December 2010 @ 09:40 |
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Originally posted by lowpro804:
Or if you really want speed out of a HDD google solid state HDD's they are pretty much ram the way they work lol,and here are some requierments i found
Intel® Core?2 Duo or AMD Phenom® II processor; 64-bit support required
64-bit operating system required: Microsoft® Windows Vista® Home Premium, Business, Ultimate, or Enterprise with Service Pack 1 or Windows® 7
2GB of RAM (4GB or more recommended)
10GB of available hard-disk space for installation; additional free space required during installation (cannot install on removable flash-based storage devices)
7200 RPM hard drive for editing compressed video formats; RAID 0 for uncompressed
1280x900 display with OpenGL 2.0?compatible graphics card
Adobe-certified GPU card for GPU-accelerated performance
Adobe-certified card for capture and export to tape for SD/HD workflows
OHCI-compatible IEEE 1394 port for DV and HDV capture, export to tape, and transmit to DV device
Sound card compatible with ASIO protocol or Microsoft Windows Driver Model
DVD-ROM drive compatible with dual-layer DVDs (DVD+-R burner for burning DVDs; Blu-ray burner for creating Blu-ray Disc media)
QuickTime 7.6.2 software required for QuickTime features
Broadband Internet connection required for online services
And if you ever need to know anythings system requirements then just google it like adobe cs5 system requirements thats all i did to get that, and bottom line is ....you should use both page file and ram at the same time like is set defult, if you get problems then do something but my system works great and that part of windows was left alone by me cause its fine :)
Your not awnsering my question... i did not ask for any requirement of a computer for CS5... i said what's the required "RAM" to "disable PageFiles" with Adobe "Creative Suite 5" so the ram wouldn't fill it up... 12GB or 16GB RAM? BTW what's the max RAM in a bar? I only see 4GB so far for a single bar RAM...
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mrslicker
Member
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30. December 2010 @ 03:08 |
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im not even going to read through those posts; to answer the original question, pagefile on hard drive is meant as a fall-back to not enough ram to handle a task. more ram is usually better. depends on what is being worked on in creative suite 5. your question is too subjective. 4gb for consumers (prove me wrong) and up to 16 or 32 (maybe) for servers is max for ram sticks
more info for you is that as capacity in ram sticks increases, this increases stress on NB, which means ability for MHz goes down, especially with more sticks... slower
lubricant -> Mr Slicker -> ???
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. December 2010 @ 03:10
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LightXxX
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30. December 2010 @ 11:05 |
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Originally posted by mrslicker:
im not even going to read through those posts; to answer the original question, pagefile on hard drive is meant as a fall-back to not enough ram to handle a task. more ram is usually better. depends on what is being worked on in creative suite 5. your question is too subjective. 4gb for consumers (prove me wrong) and up to 16 or 32 (maybe) for servers is max for ram sticks
more info for you is that as capacity in ram sticks increases, this increases stress on NB, which means ability for MHz goes down, especially with more sticks... slower
I just noticed something really retarded when adding more RAMs... Does adding more RAM change crap, even with page file because my bro has 4GB RAM and it uses 1GB-2GB which is at 30%+... and my other bro with computers has 1.5GB and it uses 700MB and is at 30%+... Does RAM change anything because i dont think adding more RAM well help because it would still be at 20% and higher... I never seen any RAM go lower than 20% even if added 20GB to my bro computer that has 4GB already would still make 20% or higher... On the eMachines i have, does adding 2GB(2x1GB) RAM will make a change, like the RAM stay at 400MB and not go up 600MB when added 2GB RAM? I dont get why RAM is being used a lot when others has 1GB and it uses 300MB(With PagingFiles)... Does the RAm well stay at 300MB and not going to 600MB when adding 2GB RAM(When nothing running is at 300MB)
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30. December 2010 @ 12:54 |
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:)
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mrslicker
Member
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30. December 2010 @ 18:33 |
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maybe its not necessary to increase your systems capacity. 4 gigs is not bad, and 2 gigs would probably be ok, too.
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LightXxX
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30. December 2010 @ 19:47 |
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Originally posted by mrslicker:
maybe its not necessary to increase your systems capacity. 4 gigs is not bad, and 2 gigs would probably be ok, too.
What i said was that, will the RAM usage will stay at 400MB or it will go up to 600MB(Nothing running) when adding more RAMs?
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ddp
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30. December 2010 @ 22:49 |
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will stay the same till you load something in startup, start a program or hgave a program running in the background. i'm running xp pro sp2 with a dual core 2.6ghz & 2gigs of ram, my task manager says i'm using 670meg in pf usage but physical memory shows 1.29meg available with 478k in system cache with 6 internet explorer screens open & outlook express open.
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LightXxX
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31. December 2010 @ 00:36 |
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Originally posted by ddp:
will stay the same till you load something in startup, start a program or hgave a program running in the background. i'm running xp pro sp2 with a dual core 2.6ghz & 2gigs of ram, my task manager says i'm using 670meg in pf usage but physical memory shows 1.29meg available with 478k in system cache with 6 internet explorer screens open & outlook express open.
My bro has 4GB of RAM and right now, the RAM usage isn't at what i calculated... it uses 1.67GB awhile i am running now Counter Strike:Source and steam and Google chrome and it doesn't reach what i think when i uses a calculator to calculate how much RAM usage should be... If i disabled page files, it's at 2GB+(+ = MORE)...
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ddp
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31. December 2010 @ 16:23 |
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leave the settings at default till you learn what different things do or your bro is going to thump you when you mess up his computer & he has to reload his windows because windows won't load.
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LightXxX
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31. December 2010 @ 17:29 |
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Originally posted by ddp:
leave the settings at default till you learn what different things do or your bro is going to thump you when you mess up his computer & he has to reload his windows because windows won't load.
I did learn but i dont get what's using so much RAM at 2GB... Every computer i sees is either 30-40% or higher and never seen it around 10-19%... What could make my bro computer using 2GB RAM?(PageFile took like 20-50% of the RAM when it's enabled) What would you say that's using a lot of RAM or it's just... I dont wanna mess with it but i wanna know what's using what and that's that....
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