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And it just got even more interesting.
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Senior Member
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4. March 2011 @ 20:43 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. March 2011 @ 20:43
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Senior Member
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4. March 2011 @ 20:52 |
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That's a lot of IP's, im not quite sure what Sony can do with those IP's those, some people may have just visited GeoHots site out of curiosity.
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ooZEROoo
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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4. March 2011 @ 21:04 |
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What this is a show of is that Sony wants to have an Iron Fist rule over the PS3. All this could possibly show is who downloaded the file. They will never know who actually installed it or not. Well they already know some of the people that used it, but what of those that never touch an internet connection. Good luck proving assumptions. I am really starting to question the tactics being used by GeoHot's lawyers.
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Senior Member
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4. March 2011 @ 21:48 |
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All they (Sony) is trying to do is prove to the judge since there are some people in California downloaded the hack, California can have jurisdiction over the trial. This way there is no need to have the trial move to New Jersey which as everyone knows is Hotz home state.I can't see Sony going after everyone that has downloaded the hack. I can see them sending out a subpoena to someone that downloaded it and a "cease and desist" as a scare tactic but that's it. Last time I read something that Wainikoko (may spelled it wrong) has backed off hacking or creating any hacks for the PS3 cause it was getting hot(as in not worth possibly going to jail over or spend legal fees).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. March 2011 @ 21:52
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Senior Member
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4. March 2011 @ 21:50 |
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All they (Sony) is trying to do is prove to the judge since there are some people in California downloaded the hack, California can have jurisdiction over the trial. This way there is no need to have the trial move to New Jersey which as everyone knows is Hotz home state.I can't see Sony going after everyone that has downloaded the hack. I can see them sending out a subpoena to someone that downloaded it and a "cease and desist" as a scare tactic but that's it. Last time I read something that Wainikoko (may spelled it wrong) has backed off hacking or creating any hacks for the PS3 cause it was getting hot(as in not worth going to jail over or spend legal fees). I wonder if this case will come down to what they find in Hotz PC's?
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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4. March 2011 @ 23:50 |
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Very disturbing; why do they get access to the IPs of those who visited the site before any form of jailbreaking existed? This is bad news for geohot...if the judge is this corrupt then the case is already decided. I need to move to the netherlands.
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Senior Member
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5. March 2011 @ 00:29 |
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Originally posted by KillerBug:
Very disturbing; why do they get access to the IPs of those who visited the site before any form of jailbreaking existed? This is bad news for geohot...if the judge is this corrupt then the case is already decided. I need to move to the netherlands.
Corrupt?LOL! Whats your basis on that?! Does he have a history?Do you have inside information that he's in Sony's payroll or getting some kind of "motivation" from Sony? C'mon man!You know that even IF and I emphasize on the IF.IF Geo loses this case, chances are he still has the right to appeal all the way to the highest court of the country.I've researched Judge Spero and so far there's nothing linked to him in regards to corruption or even an article of some sort calling out his credentials or legal competence suspect.He's dealing with this case because he has some history with similar cases like this. The most notable case I found that Judge Spero has presided on is the "Google Sues for Decision on Links to Copyrighted Songs" lawsuit. From what I've found online, Judge Spero is nothing more than your average run of the mill judge whose had some experience dealing with DMCA cases.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2011 @ 03:30
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. March 2011 @ 03:47 |
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If he gives sony whatever they want without any provided reason, then how can I assume he is going to be fair about anything? Sony claims they will use this information to prove that geohot provided jailbreaking capabilities (something that he does not dispute). They also claim that if any of the server logs point to IP addresses in california, then the case must be heard in California (with something like 100,000 IPs, that is guaranteed).
The problem with that is that the records they are going after go back a lot farther than jailbreaking does. They are asking for records going back even before work was started on unlocking the RSX chip from linux (something that has never had anything to do with piracy). In fact, the order allows them to collect information going all the way back to before firmware 2.60 was released. It does not even limit the findings to the PS3-related pages; Sony also demanded access to logs relating to iPhone, iPod, and iPad jailbreaking...and the judge went along with it!
Ignoring the fact that these records are going to be used for the OtherOS case for the most part (a case where they would have no remotely legal stance to request these records), the only thing that they hope to use these records for is to "prove" that a legal action performed in new jersey, and targeted at japan, somehow should be tried in California just because Sony happens to have an office there and some of the 100,000 people who visited his site happen to live there. Of course, Sony also has an office in new jersey...and I am sure at least a few people in NJ downloaded the tools or at least viewed the blog...plus george is a citizen on NJ...and the only reason it is being tried in California is to make it more difficult for george to defend himself from the other side of the country.
If the judge isn't doing this for the sake of a bribe, can you honestly think of any reason for him to grant Sony carte blanche like that?
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bigo93
Senior Member
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5. March 2011 @ 05:53 |
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This judge is very ignorant, he has not considered the privacy laws of numerous other countries which he is breaking. (before someone says this is in the US, Assange is not american yet they want to charge him under US laws)
People from all over the world have visited his site. I will laugh my head off if they find out that the most peopel who visited his site are from China. Using Sony's claims they should then hold the case there! :D
Also what else will Sony do with this list of IPs? Maybe next time that IP is used on a PS3, even if it a legit IP, could be blocked remotely and a message displayed saying that they claim to have detected you using a JB device. What will stop them from demanding that these people then post their PS3 to sony where they will disable any way to JB the console?
And Bawango remember not all JB consoles are being used for piracy. Probably a third or more out there now are for getting linux and other homebrews.
I hope you are not from the USA Bawango because these acts that Sony are committing are very draconian and similar to those of a dictator, where is the democracy, the fairness in this?
I am sure this somehow violates the US constitution's first amendment somehow regarding free speech.
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biglo30
Senior Member
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5. March 2011 @ 09:19 |
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I have to agree with Bigo93 and Killerbug, this just doesn't look good. The decides this judge is making decisions without any good reason, just doesn't make any sense. Somebody could have just been on youtube watching another ps3 video and that one could have came up next as a recommended video. Seems we don't have any more piracy and have all been judged as pirates because we want the ability to control some features on our own system that we spent hard earned money to own. But in sony's mind we are just renting it from them until it dies.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2011 @ 09:22
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bigo93
Senior Member
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5. March 2011 @ 10:43 |
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Indeed we are supposedly renting the system, I am surprised Sony have not demanded another £300 for when a system fails in order to replace the system we broke so Sony can rent us the new system. :P
Well they did charge people £150 to repair them.....
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2011 @ 10:48
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Senior Member
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5. March 2011 @ 15:01 |
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The article title really makes this out more than what it really is.And before we throw words like corrupt and what not lets consider what this all really means.Although Sony has been granted access to IP address it really means nothing. All this does is tell Sony where traffic is coming from. If Sony were to say take it a step farther and say went to your house by means of your IP (which I HIGHLY DOUBT) all they can prove is the PC in your house accessed the site.At the end of the day, how many people in your household alone(unless your a loner and have no friends)access your PC?Are we to assume that Sony will just be now suing everyone in your family?Unless your distributing these hacks then this is not really something worth losing sleep over.And if you don't like what Sony is doing. You have the power to make a statement by not using/buying anymore Sony products.
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bigo93
Senior Member
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5. March 2011 @ 15:47 |
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IP addresses prove nothing at all. Yet when corporations and governments need it as evidence all of a sudden it becomes infallible.
IP addresses can be faked very easily, so yes anti-piracy companies for the movie(porn) industry have tried to convince judges that IP addresses can be used as proof the owner of the connection to which that IP was attached to at that time, downloaded the copyrighted material. But just read up about what has happened to ACS:Law. It is not illegal to have an unsecure wireless network, anyone could use those, but then even secure networks can be hacked into easily with the right knowhow, and yet something like an IP address s being used as solid evidence?
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Unless your distributing these hacks then this is not really something worth losing sleep over.And if you don't like what Sony is doing. You have the power to make a statement by not using/buying anymore Sony products.
So you would happily allow people to confiscate your pc and have a look at all your document, all your family photos and videos, all your emails etc without question? I mean you wouldnt mind if you have nothing to hide right?
What if Sony knocked on your door tomorrow, claimed to have linked you to distributing ps3 cfw by visiting and posting frequently on this site and took everything as evidence? Thing's wouldnt look good as you are registered on this site, and are a Senior Member, can be considered as being a crucial member of this site.
And that is what Sony are doing using half truths to get judges to sign the orders they want. They take the law, find loophole which will carry in their favour, and then throw it in your face.
And how about you, if you do not like the rest of the members talking about how Sony have ruined their reputation, or wanting homebrew, why are you posting here? WE are making a statement, by telling others what Sony are doing and how they are manipulating the law, and each and ever instance of this is being posted, commented on and spread. So the more people who know the more people will think twice about buying Sony and the bigger the loss for Sony.
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5. March 2011 @ 16:02 |
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And how about you, if you do not like the rest of the members talking about how Sony have ruined their reputation, or wanting homebrew, why are you posting here? WE are making a statement, by telling others what Sony are doing and how they are manipulating the law, and each and ever instance of this is being posted, commented on and spread. So the more people who know the more people will think twice about buying Sony and the bigger the loss for Sony.
LOL. Please. I've never told members here what to do or state that I did not like what they are posting.I've had disagreements which is to be expected,after all,this is a discussion forum.Its never been my business as to what you people do with your PS3's and what you want to say about Sony and it never will. My stance on this is as long as CFW and hacks does not affect my online play/experience and people leave my PS3 ID alone then have at it.
Don't know why my last post got you all hot and bothered under the collar there fella?And until the mods have told me otherwise then you'll continue to see me post here at AD.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2011 @ 16:21
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bigo93
Senior Member
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5. March 2011 @ 16:41 |
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Quote:
And if you don't like what Sony is doing. You have the power to make a statement by not using/buying anymore Sony products.
Here you are telling people what to do, it can be read as "stop posting what you think and stop buying Sony stuff if you dont like them anymore"
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So you would happily allow people to confiscate your pc and have a look at all your document, all your family photos and videos, all your emails etc without question? I mean you wouldnt mind if you have nothing to hide right?
So how about it? Would you like Sony looking at all your personal and private data all on a whim that you may have cfw on your ps3?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2011 @ 16:41
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Senior Member
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5. March 2011 @ 17:04 |
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Originally posted by bigo93:
Quote:
And if you don't like what Sony is doing. You have the power to make a statement by not using/buying anymore Sony products.
Here you are telling people what to do, it can be read as "stop posting what you think and stop buying Sony stuff if you dont like them anymore"
That your interpretation and I have no control over that...YET *shifty eyes*
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So you would happily allow people to confiscate your pc and have a look at all your document, all your family photos and videos, all your emails etc without question? I mean you wouldnt mind if you have nothing to hide right?
So how about it? Would you like Sony looking at all your personal and private data all on a whim that you may have cfw on your ps3?
Nope. You want to look at my photos and videos then have at it. Some people are already doing that. Its called facebook specially if don't know how to set your privacy setting correctly.
Would I let Sony look at my PC if they suspect I have CFW?Yes. Why? because I don't have CFW or anything to hide.
Would I let the Police in my house for reason of random drug search? Yes.
Why? Because I have nothing illegal or done anything illegal.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2011 @ 17:13
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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5. March 2011 @ 23:49 |
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Originally posted by Bawango:
Originally posted by bigo93:
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And if you don't like what Sony is doing. You have the power to make a statement by not using/buying anymore Sony products.
Here you are telling people what to do, it can be read as "stop posting what you think and stop buying Sony stuff if you dont like them anymore"
That your interpretation and I have no control over that...YET *shifty eyes*
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So you would happily allow people to confiscate your pc and have a look at all your document, all your family photos and videos, all your emails etc without question? I mean you wouldnt mind if you have nothing to hide right?
So how about it? Would you like Sony looking at all your personal and private data all on a whim that you may have cfw on your ps3?
Nope. You want to look at my photos and videos then have at it. Some people are already doing that. Its called facebook specially if don't know how to set your privacy setting correctly.
Would I let Sony look at my PC if they suspect I have CFW?Yes. Why? because I don't have CFW or anything to hide.
Would I let the Police in my house for reason of random drug search? Yes.
Why? Because I have nothing illegal or done anything illegal.
I would not...they need a search warrant to search an empty backpack as far as I am concerned. I don't want to change the subject here, but personally I feel like it is the right of the individual to have as much privacy as their commitments allow. I don't think that the government should be able to control if I have a beer after work, and TBH, I really don't think that they should be able to tell my pothead neighbor that he shouldn't toke up, on his own property, with no one else around, and while not even considering driving (especially when it is part of his religion).
I am a big believer in freedom...for some reason, the schools in this country used to tell us how important freedom was all the time. I guess they were trying to imply that we had this important freedom, but all I got from it was how important it was to try to get freedom. Anyway, now I want freedom, and I know that the only way to hold onto the few shreds we have left is to fight those who try to take said threads away. I hate to use Nazi references because they are so extreme, but it really applies here...when the SS started randomly searching houses for jews that were hiding from them, most people were happy to let them search because most people were not hiding jews. The lesson? Most people only care about the freedoms that they are using at the time, and most freedoms are only being used by a minority of the people at a time, so most freedoms are only supported by a minority...if you allow freedoms to be taken away just because you are not of the minority who needs them, then it only takes 4-8 years before your government builds Auschwitz.
This case went beyond the PS3 long ago, but it has now gone beyond the tech sector...Graf getting raided was a terrible thing, but it was not in my country, and it isn't like German stormtroopers working in alliance with the Japanese in order to stop someone from saying something was too surprising; I see it on the history channel all the time. Now it has hit a little closer to home...I don't live in california, but the fallout from that case will affect me as a US citizen. To tell the truth, I am downright terrified of the fallout from this one...if sony gets their way, then everything you own will still belong to whoever sold it to you, and you will be subject to search without cause, even when no specific reason is given. Far more concerning are the free speech implications...once you have a ruling that says it is illegal to distribute code that allows for freedom (including the freedom to commit a crime), it is only a matter of time before we are banning books that make people think (and sometimes make people think of crimes).
IT ISN'T JUST ABOUT VIDEO GAMES ANYMORE.
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bigo93
Senior Member
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6. March 2011 @ 06:17 |
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Originally posted by Bawango:
Nope. You want to look at my photos and videos then have at it. Some people are already doing that. Its called facebook specially if don't know how to set your privacy setting correctly.
Would I let Sony look at my PC if they suspect I have CFW?Yes. Why? because I don't have CFW or anything to hide.
Would I let the Police in my house for reason of random drug search? Yes.
Why? Because I have nothing illegal or done anything illegal.
I feel sorry for you, you would gladly waver your rights for an excuse the government would give?! Read the post above, you let one right be taken away from you, it sets a ground for governments to remove more rights from you.
Sometimes people do not know what some laws mean to them. The US constitution was very clear on what treason was. The US government did not like it, so they used WW2 as an excuse to bring in the Espionage Act. This Act basically made any act against the military or the success of the military to be treason! Now what happens if the military starts a war which most of the people did not back? how do the people oppose such a war without committing treason in the USA?
Come to today we have the US government wants to bring in the Shield Act, this is a clear violation of the first US amendment as it prevents publishers from publishing secrets that the government is hiding from the people. This time using Wikileaks as the excuse whilst spreading lies and disinformation about them. eg that all 250,000 cable were released when only 2,000 had
So by giving away one of your rights many governments then see the doorway to remove more of your rights with excuses like terrorism backing it up.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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6. March 2011 @ 07:12 |
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There was a time when someone exposing a blatant government lie with concrete evidence would have been called a whistle blower and they would probably have gotten a medal or something. Today, it is a capital offense...and the government considers it leniency to only seek life in prison. HE CAUGHT THEM IN A LIE, a lie about a pointless massacre of civilians...and he is the one in trouble! If anyone should be facing life in prison, it is the person who told the pilots to fire on innocent civilians and reporters...in fact, that is one of the few times that I would say the death penalty is in order.
As for aiding the enemy, as long as the guilty party is left in power and the whistle-blower is rotting in a cell, they have all the secular theological support they need. The enemy may be evil bastard terrorists...but what have we become?
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bigo93
Senior Member
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6. March 2011 @ 09:21 |
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Well done on using "evil bastard terrorists" instead of "islamic terrorists", that is another feature the media like to spread, that all muslims are terrorists, it's not true, and with all religions there are extremists, yet "islamic terrorism" seems to get front page news. Let's forget about the "zionist terrorism" in Gaza, instead the media reports about how muslim palestinians threw one motar into Israel; which results in the justified action by the Israeli military to shoot on site at any palestinian be they civilian or not.
I am going off topic here but yeah, you see how one little lie can have huge consequences!
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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6. March 2011 @ 22:23 |
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I fail to see how "Islamic Terrorist" is any different from "Terrorist". The god fearing, america loving super-republicans that blow up abortion clinics are terrorists too.
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