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Sony takes Geohot and Fail0verflow to Court!
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Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 15:52 |
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Originally posted by m4r0v3r:
Technically the software is legit, since there using Sony's own key to sign the software, at the end of the day Sony are children compared to Microsoft in the whole piracy scheme and after there law suit fails, they might mature instead of whine about it. The big problem is that the code signing is the easiest thing in the world, even installing custom firmware is easy. Am using the words code signing and not hacking, jail breaking or exploiting because failoverflow just worked out the key.
Sony said that the reason why they removed Other OS was due to security issues but Geohot came out and said that's not how he was trying to hack it. If anyone was trying to hack the PS3 using Other OS it would be all over the damn internet. Even though it took 4 years to hack, the simplicity of the hack and the degree of it is rather severe. The 360 only allows the DVD hack, yes JTAG is available but that can't be done anymore. The PS3 is the new homebrew machine
OMG! There's no technically about this.Though the software is "legit" how it was obtained is what is wrong here. Its like arguing the OS in my PC is legit but I stole it from Best Buy.I'll even go further here. It was not technically breaking in someones house because I made a copy of the key I found under the rug in front of the the door.
The noble thing or the right thing that should have been done was Mr.Hotz or Fail0verflow go to Sony and point out the hole in their security.
Geohot came out and said that's not how he was trying to hack it.
Yup.And I have the cure for cancer :/
If anyone was trying to hack the PS3 using Other OS it would be all over the damn internet.
-Maybe no one was successful at doing it so maybe that's why there was never a how to released online.
at the end of the day Sony are children compared to Microsoft in the whole piracy scheme and after there law suit fails, they might mature instead of whine about it.
-You seem to forget what the hacking community did to the PSP. The reason it took this long for the Ps3 to be hacked is due to the lessons Sony learned from the PSP so don't make it sound like Sony is a noob at being hacked.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2011 @ 16:03
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bigo93
Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 16:21 |
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It is legit, they have not used any of sony's coding at all to create the tools to trick the ps3 to install pkgs. Also note that geohot made it possible to install pkgs without the need for a signature anyway.
So what you have just said is all bs. and the reason it took so long was because hacker already had linux on the ps3 via otheros, they did not see the need to hack it. Note the hackers wanted linux, not piracy here. Sony removed otheros, thereby removing linux, thereby pissing hackers off, so they started to get to work hacking the console.
Bawango you dont seem to understand what is going on in this case and should stop trolling.
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Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 16:30 |
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Originally posted by bigo93:
It is legit, they have not used any of sony's coding at all to create the tools to trick the ps3 to install pkgs. Also note that geohot made it possible to install pkgs without the need for a signature anyway.
So what you have just said is all bs. and the reason it took so long was because hacker already had linux on the ps3 via otheros, they did not see the need to hack it. Note the hackers wanted linux, not piracy here. Sony removed otheros, thereby removing linux, thereby pissing hackers off, so they started to get to work hacking the console.
Bawango you dont seem to understand what is going on in this case and should stop trolling.
Wow. I did not know that being opinionated is now classified as trolling.
Alright. Hacking is good. Go nuts with it. I was wrong to think that only negative things can and will come out of all of this.ALL hackers are good people.
With that I leave you with this:
http://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-hacking-begins-via-ps3-exploit/
and
http://www.warpzoned.com/?p=779
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2011 @ 19:18
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bigo93
Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 16:36 |
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Noone minds you having a different opinion, just use real facts rather than quoting what sony have claimed.
Yes sony did remove otheros from the slims, but they said they would leave it on the phat models. the first slims were released in September 2009. Firmware 3.21 was released in April 2010.
This leads one to ask why the 8 month wait, if sony truely wanted to remove otheros altogether in teh first place, why not do that with any one of the 5 firmware updates that were released during this 8 month period? Why was it firware 3.21 was release just over a month after geohot started hacking the ps3.
Sony's excuse of removing otheros for security reasons was false, we all know it was to prevent piracy but sony refused to admit it.
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m4r0v3r
Member
1 product review
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13. January 2011 @ 16:47 |
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If there not "noobs" to being hacked why is it so easy to install custom firmware then? sure it took 4 years, but it the degree is something else. I doubt Sony can patch this away. All they did with the PSP is release a new device every time the older revision got hacked...I doubt they can do the same with PS3's since they cost a lot more.
Geohotz wrote that if Sony wanted to properly patch there system they should contact him, but they want to make an example out of a person that would benefit them. He also added extra protection in his custom firmware so people can't use it for piracy, remember he's not the only person that can create custom firmware, at the moment anyone with the knowledge can.
For the Open OS argument I put my hands up you were right
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/geohot-releases-hack-for-ps3
You say you break into someone else's house. But am saying you make a key to break into a room that you never had a key for that's in your house ;) Companies have for too long had the idea that they still own that console when it's been bought and that they can do what they wish with it through software updates, controlling everything. But why shouldn't a user be able to completely wipe the software and write there own?
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Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 16:52 |
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Originally posted by bigo93:
Noone minds you having a different opinion, just use real facts rather than quoting what sony have claimed.
Yes sony did remove otheros from the slims, but they said they would leave it on the phat models. the first slims were released in September 2009. Firmware 3.21 was released in April 2010.
This leads one to ask why the 8 month wait, if sony truely wanted to remove otheros altogether in teh first place, why not do that with any one of the 5 firmware updates that were released during this 8 month period? Why was it firware 3.21 was release just over a month after geohot started hacking the ps3.
Sony's excuse of removing otheros for security reasons was false, we all know it was to prevent piracy but sony refused to admit it.
Why Sony waited so long to remove other OS we will never know unless you know someone inside.Here's why I think it took them a while. And keep in mind that this is just what I think. Sony may have well did not want to remove other OS and maybe they could have found a way to make it secure through FW updates. What pushed them over the edge was Geohot and his progression with his work.
Whats the difference?Correct me if I am wrong but what I gather here is you would have had no issue if Sony from the start stated that we're removing the other OS feature due to piracy?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2011 @ 16:54
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Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 17:08 |
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Originally posted by NteStlKr:
they released some limited information on the vulnerability, but left it to others to open up fully (eg, release the keys), which was very cowardly. If they had balls, Hotz would have had nothing to do with this whole thing, as failoverflow would have released everything.
And yes, failoverflow was sued. their site initially had a quote ("we got sued" or something to that effect) and a link to george's site, which has the documents listing the defendants.
That's what i said, you don't have a clue what you are talking about, ill say it again, they released ALL of their tools, every single tiny file, they released it and hundreds of people mirrored those files, their files are on hundreds of mirrors now, also GeoHot wouldn't have got the key, if it hadn't been for fail0verflow.
Also furthermore, fail0verflow DIDN'T want the root key being released as this would have lead to easier piracy, try being in the scene everyday, try writing about the scene everyday, ten talk about what you think you know, because until then, you will just be wrong.
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Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 17:14 |
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Originally posted by Bawango:
Why Sony waited so long to remove other OS we will never know unless you know someone inside.Here's why I think it took them a while. And keep in mind that this is just what I think. Sony may have well did not want to remove other OS and maybe they could have found a way to make it secure through FW updates. What pushed them over the edge was Geohot and his progression with his work.
Whats the difference?Correct me if I am wrong but what I gather here is you would have had no issue if Sony from the start stated that we're removing the other OS feature due to piracy?
Sony could have patched GeoHot's exploit.
Also i would consider enabling a console for piracy IS a security issue, though thats is not why GeoHot first attempted to hack it, he wanted homebrew and i guess he also wanted the award of being first to hack it.
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SDF_GR
Member
1 product review
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13. January 2011 @ 17:17 |
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To say that PS3 was hacked cause the otherOS was removed is totally/ultimate BS FGS...
The PS3 was on the target from day 1, everyone was trying to hack it, one way or the other.
Even in this very site there was a swap disc switch guide. for homebrew? for linux? well i dont think so.
Linux? on the ps3? give me a f break...
All the sudden everyone wants linux on the ps3....and the hackers pissed off cause they couldent run linux on the PS3?
most of them didnt even had or have a ps3, and most of them if not all have 2-3-4 PC's running linux way faster than the ps3.
So enough with that BS that hackers pissed of cause linux.
Even if sony tomorrow says that we will bring back otheros and with a magical way BWC the hacks wont cease.Period.
Homebrew? what HB? sega master system emulator? nes emulator?
Extremely useful this is what i was always wanted to see on my PS3!!i bet they look really brilliant on a 32+" HDTV!
Even the minis/PS1/PS2 games (cause i have the BWC PS3) looks like crap. so what homebrew?
No one cares about HB or Linux, in every bloody topic in every bloody site that was posted that kakaroto released MFW, F0F will release tools, GH released CFW ...90% of the comments were "that means that i can play GT5?"..."yeah finally GT5"....
what HB? what linux?
If they really wanted to do something useful, they could make a bloody utility?tool?homebrew app if you like, to rescue you data from a dead PS3.
The PS3 was the most hack proof system and everyone wanted the glory and to be infamous, all the other about HB&linux are just lies.
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biglo30
Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 17:25 |
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Originally posted by Bawango:
Misguided hatred.
A common theme I?ve seen across the internet in comments regarding hack news is ?F**k you Sony!? ?Hahaha take that Sony!?, it?s somewhat laughable to think about it really, because while Sony themselves do feel a negative impact from piracy in their cut of software sales, licenses and third party developers, they also see a vast increase in sold hardware.
Indeed some commenter?s seem oblivious to the fact that the software they download isn?t all made by Sony themselves, yet feel the need to chime in with the chorus of fellow pirates about how ?Sony deserve it?.
But let?s take a look at things more intimately for a second, one of the most pointed at reasons for why Sony ?deserve? their console being hacked, is the removal of OtherOS, at the same time, people also like to point out that the PlayStation 3 was only hacked because of OtherOS removal.
Also, Sony did advertise the functionality of OtherOS when selling the console, so removal of an advertised feature is indeed quite wrong.
It may be the case that OtherOS was going to be removed from consoles prior to hackers attempts to exploit the system via an OtherOS linux install, and while we will never truly know the truth behind this or not, in all probability, the new console would probably have gone on sale without advertisements for OtherOS capability, with the original units keeping the functionality much like original launch units kept PlayStation 2 Backwards compatibility.
The attempts on the systems security being made via the OtherOS functionality obviously gave Sony no reason to continue support for the functionality with future firmware updates, and while i completely disagree with the removal of the function, despite never actually using it for more than a day, i can see their reasoning for removing it.
This is a snippet from this article:
http://sony.nyleveia.com/2011/01/13/4652/
I totally agree with you on this one, some I believe those people are not very smart so I just tend to ignore those post where people are saying up your sony and all this other crap, because if thats the case why the hell are they even bothering with their system if they don't like sony??
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Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 17:26 |
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Originally posted by SDF_GR:
To say that PS3 was hacked cause the otherOS was removed is totally/ultimate BS FGS...
The PS3 was on the target from day 1, everyone was trying to hack it, one way or the other.
Even in this very site there was a swap disc switch guide. for homebrew? for linux? well i dont think so.
Linux? on the ps3? give me a f break...
All the sudden everyone wants linux on the ps3....and the hackers pissed off cause they couldent run linux on the PS3?
most of them didnt even had or have a ps3, and most of them if not all have 2-3-4 PC's running linux way faster than the ps3.
So enough with that BS that hackers pissed of cause linux.
Even if sony tomorrow says that we will bring back otheros and with a magical way BWC the hacks wont cease.Period.
Homebrew? what HB? sega master system emulator? nes emulator?
Extremely useful this is what i was always wanted to see on my PS3!!i bet they look really brilliant on a 32+" HDTV!
Even the minis/PS1/PS2 games (cause i have the BWC PS3) looks like crap. so what homebrew?
No one cares about HB or Linux, in every bloody topic in every bloody site that was posted that kakaroto released MFW, F0F will release tools, GH released CFW ...90% of the comments were "that means that i can play GT5?"..."yeah finally GT5"....
what HB? what linux?
If they really wanted to do something useful, they could make a bloody utility?tool?homebrew app if you like, to rescue you data from a dead PS3.
The PS3 was the most hack proof system and everyone wanted the glory and to be infamous, all the other about HB&linux are just lies.
Also I want to know if did these noble hackers even approach sony about implementing these wonderful homebrews on the PS3.
I've been on afterdawn for a long time and more particularly on the PS3 forums. Honestly how many people came here for help with linux. Other than how to maybe install it? But that was pretty much it. PS3 media servers and HDD upgrading were more a prevalent question/topic than linux ever was on here.I can't believe that people are more outraged that Linux was taken out but not so much for PS2 backwards compatibility.
If people should lose their mind about Sony taking away a feature it should be PS2 backwards compatibility. Here I am with a PS3 but I can't play my copies of Okami,Psychonauts, and Escape from Monkey Island.Yeah I can pick up a PS2 for cheap but the appeal of the PS3 was bw compatibility with both PS1 and PS2 games.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2011 @ 17:34
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Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 17:35 |
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Originally posted by Bawango:
Originally posted by SDF_GR:
To say that PS3 was hacked cause the otherOS was removed is totally/ultimate BS FGS...
The PS3 was on the target from day 1, everyone was trying to hack it, one way or the other.
Even in this very site there was a swap disc switch guide. for homebrew? for linux? well i dont think so.
Linux? on the ps3? give me a f break...
All the sudden everyone wants linux on the ps3....and the hackers pissed off cause they couldent run linux on the PS3?
most of them didnt even had or have a ps3, and most of them if not all have 2-3-4 PC's running linux way faster than the ps3.
So enough with that BS that hackers pissed of cause linux.
Even if sony tomorrow says that we will bring back otheros and with a magical way BWC the hacks wont cease.Period.
Homebrew? what HB? sega master system emulator? nes emulator?
Extremely useful this is what i was always wanted to see on my PS3!!i bet they look really brilliant on a 32+" HDTV!
Even the minis/PS1/PS2 games (cause i have the BWC PS3) looks like crap. so what homebrew?
No one cares about HB or Linux, in every bloody topic in every bloody site that was posted that kakaroto released MFW, F0F will release tools, GH released CFW ...90% of the comments were "that means that i can play GT5?"..."yeah finally GT5"....
what HB? what linux?
If they really wanted to do something useful, they could make a bloody utility?tool?homebrew app if you like, to rescue you data from a dead PS3.
The PS3 was the most hack proof system and everyone wanted the glory and to be infamous, all the other about HB&linux are just lies.
Also I want to know if did these noble hackers even approach sony about implementing these wonderful homebrews on the PS3.
I've been on afterdawn for a long time and more particularly on the PS3 forums. Honestly how many people came here for help with linux. Other than how to maybe install it? But that was pretty much it. PS3 media servers and HDD upgrading were more a prevalent question/topic than linux ever was on here.
I really don't mean to disrespect you guys, but you are the ultimate PS3 fanboys and that's perfectly fine, that is your right, the only problem is that no matter what people tell you and it could be thousands of people, you just wont take their word, it has to be the rubbish that Sony feeds you and that's unfortunate, i have been in the PS3 hacking scene for a long time, i have seen every attempt at hacking it, i have seen all the fails at hacking it, the one thing and only thing that sealed the fate of the PS3's security was the removal of OtherOS, no other reason, you wont believe or want to believe that, but it is fact and nothing but fact.
You might want to read my definitive history on the PS3, the good and the bad, no one else had done it, so i though, why not :p
http://www.ps3hax.net/2011/01/the-ps3-its-life-the-hacks-pastpresentfuture-a-complete-history-of-the-ps3/
It is by no means finished and i have a few details still to add, but im sure you will find it a worth read :)
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Senior Member
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13. January 2011 @ 17:54 |
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Originally posted by marcusita:
Originally posted by Bawango:
Originally posted by SDF_GR:
To say that PS3 was hacked cause the otherOS was removed is totally/ultimate BS FGS...
The PS3 was on the target from day 1, everyone was trying to hack it, one way or the other.
Even in this very site there was a swap disc switch guide. for homebrew? for linux? well i dont think so.
Linux? on the ps3? give me a f break...
All the sudden everyone wants linux on the ps3....and the hackers pissed off cause they couldent run linux on the PS3?
most of them didnt even had or have a ps3, and most of them if not all have 2-3-4 PC's running linux way faster than the ps3.
So enough with that BS that hackers pissed of cause linux.
Even if sony tomorrow says that we will bring back otheros and with a magical way BWC the hacks wont cease.Period.
Homebrew? what HB? sega master system emulator? nes emulator?
Extremely useful this is what i was always wanted to see on my PS3!!i bet they look really brilliant on a 32+" HDTV!
Even the minis/PS1/PS2 games (cause i have the BWC PS3) looks like crap. so what homebrew?
No one cares about HB or Linux, in every bloody topic in every bloody site that was posted that kakaroto released MFW, F0F will release tools, GH released CFW ...90% of the comments were "that means that i can play GT5?"..."yeah finally GT5"....
what HB? what linux?
If they really wanted to do something useful, they could make a bloody utility?tool?homebrew app if you like, to rescue you data from a dead PS3.
The PS3 was the most hack proof system and everyone wanted the glory and to be infamous, all the other about HB&linux are just lies.
Also I want to know if did these noble hackers even approach sony about implementing these wonderful homebrews on the PS3.
I've been on afterdawn for a long time and more particularly on the PS3 forums. Honestly how many people came here for help with linux. Other than how to maybe install it? But that was pretty much it. PS3 media servers and HDD upgrading were more a prevalent question/topic than linux ever was on here.
I really don't mean to disrespect you guys, but you are the ultimate PS3 fanboys and that's perfectly fine, that is your right, the only problem is that no matter what people tell you and it could be thousands of people, you just wont take their word, it has to be the rubbish that Sony feeds you and that's unfortunate, i have been in the PS3 hacking scene for a long time, i have seen every attempt at hacking it, i have seen all the fails at hacking it, the one thing and only thing that sealed the fate of the PS3's security was the removal of OtherOS, no other reason, you wont believe or want to believe that, but it is fact and nothing but fact.
You might want to read my definitive history on the PS3, the good and the bad, no one else had done it, so i though, why not :p
http://www.ps3hax.net/2011/01/the-ps3-its-life-the-hacks-pastpresentfuture-a-complete-history-of-the-ps3/
It is by no means finished and i have a few details still to add, but im sure you will find it a worth read :)
My problem is with people that are saying that the removal of other OS was the ONLY reason hackers hacked the PS3 and the sole reason to what led to the PS3 being hacked.
Your link just confirmed that this is not the case and other hackers have been hard at work trying to hack the PS3 since even before the removal of other OS.The removal of other OS just gave hackers the extra incentive to further do so.
Good read btw. Site is looking good :)
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m4r0v3r
Member
1 product review
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13. January 2011 @ 18:15 |
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Open OS was not the reason the PS3 was hacked. Piracy was.... I hope piracy one day get's game prices lower, because I would buy games if they were £20 but not £40. I like PC prices, especially steam, but consoles bloody hell, they bend you over every game
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emugamer
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. January 2011 @ 19:56 |
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Originally posted by m4r0v3r:
I hope piracy one day get's game prices lower, because I would buy games if they were £20 but not £40. I like PC prices, especially steam, but consoles bloody hell, they bend you over every game
Wishful thinking. Profit margins are expected to go up, not down. Otherwise you lose shareholder value. What happens when hardware becomes more advance? It costs more to produce. Well, with more advanced hardware, you can create higher quality games, which themselves require more advanced hardware and software as well as more brains and labor. Games are now part movie. You need voice actors who at times perform game movements in motion capture gear. I purchased many SNES games when I was a kid. I had to save about $35 of my paper route money for a game...in the early 90's. That is the equivalent of about $59 in 2010. I was making minimum wage at that time, which was about $3.80/hr. What is the minimum wage in 2010? I don't know, so I looked it up - $7.25/hr.
People will always complain about the price of games, movies, etc. But they will always fail to remember that it wasn't that much different back in the day.
I wish I was a hacker. I would have had a go at that machine. Because I was truly upset that I couldn't install Linux anymore. I tried early versions and wanted to keep following any developments. Game selection was not that great when I bought my PS3, so Linux was one of the factors in my buying one. I was genuinely pissed when they took it away, so I can only imagine how Linux enthusiasts may have felt, whether they were the minority of PS3 owners or not. Maybe I hadn't gotten far with Linux, or utilizerd it completely, but the option that I purchased was always supposed to be there. My money paid for it. A lot of people post about how they don't care and that it's a gaming machine anyway. Well, I care(d). Maybe I'm old school, but when I buy something, don't dare take it away unless you make an offer to reimburse me. I don't remember receiving a check from Sony.
The biggest thing that pissed me off to the point of indignation was when they said that the update was optional. Only to follow up with "but you can't log in to PSN." I felt like they had me by the balls, because I actually enjoyed gaming online and had lots of friends that I gamed with. But what could I do? Hell, after a long day at work, I enjoyed playing Uncharted 2 and COD with friends. My kids had levels in LBP that they were uploading and we all invested so much in dlc (between the 5 people in my household, we probably spent $20-$30/month on dlc - rock band, guitar hero, lbp, etc.) as well as full price pre-orders on disc-based games. So I updated, but in the back of my mind I had it in for Sony. Lots of love lost. I don't care if they were trying to protect their system. How dare they strip my machine. In my mind, it's their responsibility to work hard to battle the threat of piracy in the back end of things, transparent to the customer. Regardless of the TOS, what's right is right. I think I've only read 1 TOS/EULA in my life from start to finish. The legal fluff made me sick. What's mine is mine. I'll do whatever I want with it in the privacy of my own home. I wrote a long, well-thought-out educated response to the removal of OtherOS on the Playstation blog. I was redirected to a page that said my comment was going to be reviewed. Needless to say, it never made it on the forum. Yet 500 other comments did.
To make a long story longer, I've proudly been jailbroken since September on 2 PS3's (bought a second 3.41 off eBay). Bought my kids 10 Wii games since then to redirect them away from the PS3. What do I run on my jailbroken device? That's nobody's business. But Sony has not received a penny from me since September. Payback's a bitch.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2011 @ 20:06
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SDF_GR
Member
1 product review
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13. January 2011 @ 20:44 |
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@marcusita
Really great post, bravo!
back on topic,
As you write to your post from day 1 the ultimate goal and the 1st hack was free games.fact.
Sony removed the BWC, no one cared to restore it.... cause they knew they couldent anyway.
Sony removed the otherOS from the slims, again no one cared.
Sony removed the otherOS from the fatty's some people cared, but wasnt that much of an impact. Cause for the average user was useless really.
Once the "untraceable/not patchable/works with future FW's" dongle blocked by sony, it was then when everyone remembered the otherOS.
None of the consoles/handleds so far was able to run linux by default and every console was hacked for the very same reason. free games.
PS2 was hacked way before linux become available, PS3 was a target way before otherOS was removed.
The otherOS was removed before a year or so, it was like it never existed in first place and the last 3-4 months cause it was the best excuse it came back to life.
As much as i may like sony, i didnt liked the fact that they removed the otherOS.
The only reason that i blame GH is that he gave sony the best excuse to justify the removal, but from the other hand.....it was just a matter of time, they removed it from the slim, so what's next? the fattys.
How i see it, as sony used GH to remove the otherOS, same way now all this people use the otherOS to justify their cause = to be infamous.
But cause, they can't just get to a camera with their full names and say "we hacked the PS3 and enabled piracy" they said "we hacked the ps3 to bring back the otherOS"
That has nothing to do if i am funboy or cause i like sony.
I just cant stand BS excuses like sony did with GH.
Sooner or later PS3 would have been hacked, whether or not the otherOS was removed , or wasnt there in first place.
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NteStlKr
Junior Member
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15. January 2011 @ 12:04 |
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"Also I want to know if did these noble hackers even approach sony about implementing these wonderful homebrews on the PS3."
are you joking? you really don't understand the concept of signed code, do you? They say "it's secure" and "reliable" and this and that... it's all bs. you give signing company x amount of money (typically $500+), and they sign it with the master key, and then it magically runs on given platform. It's as simple as that... no verification of claims, no bug checking, no anything. money transfer and you get signed code.
The entire reason for this is pure greed from hardware manufacturers. It isn't enough for them to have control over the device patents and manufacturing. Once the markets get saturated, they become cash cows unless they do something drastic. In today's business world, that means becoming a douchebag with ever-more-jealous insulting methods to control your customers. Some hardware manufacturers, including Sony, have implemented this new code signing revenue stream to increase stockholders' equity, in hopes of remaining star corporations.
The whole problem is that the whole perpetual corporation growth ad infinitum simply cannot happen, so they delay the inevitable with crap like this. It just pisses off everyone, while reaching the same end.
My beef is that it is unethical to do these things (code signing to kill competition, ex post facto removal of program features, et alia). Even you said you agree that they are wrong... but where we differ is what should be done about it. We have the legal right to do many of the things that the master key's release allows us to do-- from playing backups, to running any code we want, and so forth, except piracy (obviously). The law says that we have the rights to those things, but that corporations don't have to make it easy (... and they don't with the case of consoles). I say it should be illegal to falsely limit our fair use rights. What all of this does is begin to erode consumer rights, and many don't even know that they have such fair use rights. Some children now even believe it is wrong, or even illegal do do those things. How much sense does it make that in order to exercise our basic rights, we have to ask a corporation for permission? They simply do not have that authority, and many, including myself, do not respect the authority of Sony et al over my consumer rights.
PS: yes, the removal of otheros is what lead to it being unlocked. I have no doubt that it would have been cracked eventually regardless, but Sony pissed off exactly the kind of people who had the means to hack the system, and gave them the reason to. the people who hacked it have said exactly the same thing. what on earth makes you people think that you know their motivations better than they do? wow, think people.
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bigo93
Senior Member
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15. January 2011 @ 12:52 |
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Originally posted by Bawango:
Whats the difference?Correct me if I am wrong but what I gather here is you would have had no issue if Sony from the start stated that we're removing the other OS feature due to piracy?
No I would not have an issue if Sony removed otheros and refunded all of us who bought phat consoles. WE paid for a console that came with otheros, sony removed that feature and left us with either otheros and no new games, or new games but no otheros.
Now I did not use otheros, but who's to say about the future, mabe someone created an app for otheros which I may have liked. Who knows.
But I was displeased with Sony from the start. Here in the EU we got an inferior console whilst paying a higher price for that privilege! Sony were making a saving of $60 by removing the emotion chip and memory card sockets, whilst the price was £120 higher than in the US. Now this always happens in the EU when the EU is a larger gaming market then the US.
Now we have all this kerfuffle which shows exactly how much Sony cares for its consumers, Sony has done nothing but alienate us, and so will now reap what they have sown.
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Senior Member
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15. January 2011 @ 17:10 |
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Originally posted by bigo93:
Originally posted by Bawango:
Whats the difference?Correct me if I am wrong but what I gather here is you would have had no issue if Sony from the start stated that we're removing the other OS feature due to piracy?
No I would not have an issue if Sony removed otheros and refunded all of us who bought phat consoles. WE paid for a console that came with otheros, sony removed that feature and left us with either otheros and no new games, or new games but no otheros.
Now I did not use otheros, but who's to say about the future, mabe someone created an app for otheros which I may have liked. Who knows.
But I was displeased with Sony from the start. Here in the EU we got an inferior console whilst paying a higher price for that privilege! Sony were making a saving of $60 by removing the emotion chip and memory card sockets, whilst the price was £120 higher than in the US. Now this always happens in the EU when the EU is a larger gaming market then the US.
Now we have all this kerfuffle which shows exactly how much Sony cares for its consumers, Sony has done nothing but alienate us, and so will now reap what they have sown.
What a bunch of crap!Talk about grasping for reasons for justify something and totally fail at it.Your upset that Sony took away other OS because even though you were not using it, your hoping for someone to develop an app that you again may or may not use.
Your displeased with Sony because they released a much inferior version of the PS3 in EU and with a higher price tag BUT you still willfully spent the money on it knowing that your paying for a much more inferior and expensive version.Going by your comments you should have been alienated a long time ago even before the removal of other OS.
Seem that your trying too hard to justify reasons to pirate games on your PS3.
If you were already that disenchanted with the PS3 from the beginning why did you still buy it?I'm glad your not going to court cause your defense is full of holes.
Anyway bigo93 I'm not on a crusade to stop anyone from pirating games. My main concerns are further hacking i.e. gaining access to someones PSN account which someone already reported, online game cheaters which is already happening with Gran Turismo 5 and Call of Duty MW2.
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17. January 2011 @ 18:44 |
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17. January 2011 @ 18:54 |
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17. January 2011 @ 18:58 |
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NteStlKr
Junior Member
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18. January 2011 @ 10:54 |
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what did they expect by storing all the info on console only, and not have any way to back it up or restore it? It is poor decision making on the part of the developers, nothing more, nothing less. It is just pure common sense that if you store something in one place, there must be a way to backup and restore it, or data loss will happen. and then they try to partially blame it on others, lmao. At least they admitted they realized their folly a while back and changed it, though there is still no backup/restore capability that is built-in, from what I can tell.
Plus, for the first gamers, that sucks. But after it was brought out, people should have started checking IP addresses before connecting. If not, they are playing russian roulette and they assumed the risk. too bad.
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