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Some Questions about Gentoo
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JaguarGod
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18. August 2009 @ 04:17 |
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I would like to install a Linux Distro on my current PC. I tried Ubuntu before and I did not like it too much. I was reading a bit and a lot of people suggest that Gentoo is a great choice for people willing to take the time to compile.
I found an installation workbook and it was 80-ish pages (I only skimmed through it). The process did seem complicated, but the manual also seemed to be in depth (not sure since I only skimmed). Is the guide enough (with some supplemental reading) to figure out how to do it?
For anyone that has actually installed Gentoo, is it really that difficult to install? I haven't used anything command line since I was in 4th grade or something like that, but I do tend to pick things up quickly so I should be able to figure it out, at least with some guidance.
Another thing I read that it can take days to compile. Is this true, or is this coming from people with really old systems? I have a Q6600 @ 3.24 GHz with 4GB of RAM. Internet connection is slow-ish at 1350kbps.
For those with experience with Gentoo, is it worth it? For a total newbie, how long would it take to read up to get enough knowledge to get a proper install. Is there anything I can try to get me a little knowledge before attempting this? I do remember I compiled software a few years ago... Would compiling random software help?
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OzMick
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18. August 2009 @ 13:12 |
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Yes, the install guide is enough to get a basic system. Then you need to install everything else on top of that.
Yes, it can take days to compile everything, and then you need to go through compilation every time you do an emerge.
Whether it is "worth it" is debatable. Good learning experience, but speed benefit is marginal. I'd suggest having a look at either Arch linux or performing a Debian netinstall instead. That way you get to install only what you want and can have a system up and running quickly without dicking about with make flags and compilation.
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Moderator
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18. August 2009 @ 14:09 |
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Gentoo - the Linux distro of Vikings/lumberjacks ie supposed 'real' men :)
In this day and age, even with stupidly fast computers, Gentoo taking huge chunks of your life compiling is just unnecessary. A mate even installed it on a multi-CPU Sun server once, it takes decades to compile, he did it 'just because he could'.
At the end of the day it'd teach you a little bit about how stuff works but i've never understood why Gentoo even exists, apart from allowing overweight bespectacled geeks to wear the T-shirts at conventions. Linux people always go on about how stable Linux is anyway, so something that takes so long to compile and thus being 'super' stable just doesn't hold water for me.
A much better way to learn is to pick something (anything) else and use the hours that not compiling will save you, for delving in and messing/researching/breaking and fixing, you'll learn (and benefit) far, far more..
Like Mick says, try something else, there's obscene amounts of distributions out there.
Sorry my post isn't overly constructive, i've been using Unix & Linux for 9 years now and have simply never understood the fascination with Gentoo, most likely never will.
Even my beloved Solaris doesn't take huge chunks of life to install/configure/learn. Compiling programs for someone in your job, when the clock is ticking is bad enough...
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules *** |
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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19. August 2009 @ 01:38 |
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Sounds good. Both of you were very helpful. I do not have much experience of Linux. I guess I was reading stuff written by the "Gentoo Geeks".
Any suggestions of a good distribution for my specs:
Intel C2Q Q6600 @ 3.24GHz
4GB PC 8500 DDR2
ATi HD4850
I prefer a 64-bit Distro. If Debian gets the nod again from both of you, then I will go for that, but I am not interested in trying too many OS, cause then I'll probably never stop :P It's not that I don't want to experiment, I just do not have too much time to test too much out. I actually have no issues with Windows since I stick with w2k, XP Pro and XP 64, but in a couple of years I am pretty sure I will have issues...I've seen Vista "in action" and I am not impressed. It seems like Windows 7 is going to be more of the same...
I am also interested in trying a Live CD out. That would be cool since I can take it anywhere...like work :P Are there any issues with the Live CDs and getting internet access? My PCI Wireless card for example does not even have drivers for Windows XP 64. Would this give me any issues? Also, would I be able to connect online on a work PC? Everything is blocked except for some .gov sites and I get bored as hell sometimes as there is nothing to do. It would be cool to browse the internet and not have them be able to connect remotely to the workstation I am using to see what I am doing... Even Minesweeper is taken off the PCs...
I am probably going to try out Puppy. I can't even begin to imagine how fast it will run once loaded to my RAM... Crap, if my PC can launch Adobe After Effects CS4 in under 3 seconds from the HDD, I imagine anything normal will be instant on Puppy :)
Do all the Live Distros run on USB sticks or is it just Puppy?
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Moderator
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19. August 2009 @ 02:25 |
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If you really must sacrifice huge chunks of life for Gentoo, be my guest, it just don't seem productive to me, but that's just me :p
I really like Live CD's, some of them even get wireless working with no problem. Getting an internet connection at work depends if you can get an IP address via DHCP. Doubtful but you never know.
In my last form the Internet side of things was controlled from the Windows side and due to a couple of rogue developers writing their own viruses and letting them loose they suddenly became paranoid about everything, including us *nix guys having unmonitored internet access. Despite the fact the *nix guys never misused the internet we caught out for those developers. But of course we controlled the most important servers and the final nail in the coffin was them realising we had internet access on the Unix servers which they had no monitoring software for. So they locked everything down.
Anyways we could just pull the network cables out of our Windows PC's and assign those IP addresses to our Linux pc's but as we didn't abuse it they couldn't stop that. But eventually they gave us internet access on the linux machines, but only as they could then monitor the traffic.
But the point is that you might find it problematic to even use a live cd/usb stick, companies are scared of the power of these amazing little distro's, and to some extent i can see why.
Petty companies aside, Puppy (though other distributions might be able to also) can even save your live cd session on a usb stick/multisession cd. I prefer hard drive installs personally but it is very nice to be able to just boot off a stick or cd on any machine and be on the net. I have my routers configured for the wierd and wonderful 'Static DHCP' so that my machines always keep the same IP address, so i always know what's what.
I don't recall trying Puppy on the Q6600, might try that later, though amongst others it is installed on one of my Core 2 Duo's, and needless to say it flies..
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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19. August 2009 @ 05:58 |
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No, you did a good job talking me out of Gentoo. If it only had to be compiled once, then it wouldn't be that bad, but if you have to do it every time, that would get annoying too fast! I will look at Arch Linux and Debian as OzMick suggested.
I downloaded and tried out Puppy. I must say, for something so small, it is pretty useful as is. I even did the USB install, although I must have partitioned it incorrectly as Windows cannot see the empty partition. I think I went 500MB ex3 and 1.4GB FAT16 or something like that :P
That was an interesting story about the internet connection. I understand what you are saying, but I don't think there is anyone that will really say anything in the office. If the "powers that be" see that the main server is offline, maybe that would raise some flags though. At the very least I can play spider solitaire and the Rubix Cube game. I could probably find an open source Minesweeper and there's always Punchout and Super Mario World :D
I am having issues with internet connection however. I was never good at configuring internet. I rarely do it, so I always forget. Maybe the issue is something like the driver though. I should dig out the CD and see if it came with a Linux Driver...if I only remember where I put it :P
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varnull
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20. August 2009 @ 09:29 |
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Should be able to solve puppy connectivity from the desktop connect icon.. just follow the walkthrough. Only annoyance I have with puppy since s.xx is they somehow broke lspci.. and haven't fixed it. Seeing as that's what I mainly use the little devil for it's pretty bad news for me. I must go and have another dig on their forums.. Slax is getting a bit long in the tooth.. hardware detection is becoming iffy.
Originally posted by creaky:
Despite the fact the *nix guys never misused the internet
hahahahaha.. speak for yourself.. isn't that what internet at work is for.. My BOFH tendencies surface again.
64 bit you say? .. only one I have got to work 100% is debian.. all the others were a bit broken one way or another. Core system install then add what you need.. works better that way and only takes a few minutes. When I do that I tend to use fluxbox/rox combination for desktop.. personal preference on a 64 monster.. it can handle the bloaty ones but if it's hellishly fast then why not exploit the speed?
I need to get back to solaris when I get some time.. I installed a heap of stuff but never got round to adding it to the menus.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. August 2009 @ 09:32
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Moderator
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20. August 2009 @ 09:48 |
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Ok i fibbed very slightly, for years i caned the network to death with Morpheus/Kazaa/WinMX and whatever else was out there at the time (shows how long ago it was from the program names. But for the last few years i stopped all that. I'd run out of internet to download by then :o
Yeah, Puppy's network icon is fairly good, it takes a few times to get it to work as whoever coded it was obviously on industrial strength drugs or glue, but persevere and it's actually pretty good. Plus the ethernet and wifi connections actually stay working after a reboot, normally i find i have to configure everything manually in most other distributions.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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20. August 2009 @ 17:26 |
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Quote:
Should be able to solve puppy connectivity from the desktop connect icon.. just follow the walkthrough.
Do you mean that it fails a few times before it detects my connection? It always screws up at step 2, after I find the network and enter the WEP key. I know with the Windows Network connection thing, it sometimes takes 2 minutes to detect my network. If I want to check something quickly before I step out, it sucks since I have to wait...
Well, I have 20 minutes before I have to get ready, so I will play around with it. I'll update later on.
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64 bit you say? .. only one I have got to work 100% is debian.. all the others were a bit broken one way or another. Core system install then add what you need..
Awesome! I'll give it a try. This way I can actually use up my empty partition and it will give me something to play around with and get used to Linux.
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for years i caned the network to death with Morpheus/Kazaa/WinMX
Oh, I remember those days! Those were my three favorite p2p software at the time. Napster was king though! I would get 2000 kB/s - 10,000 kB/s downloads!! It was awesome that I could fill a 250MB zip disc with crap in like 3 minutes :P
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Moderator
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20. August 2009 @ 17:29 |
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Oh i forgot Napster, how could i do such a thing, caned the crap out of that one too, 'back in the day' :)
Yeah Puppy's network thingy is a bit feeble. You do a wireless scan, enter your settings, make sure to save profile, then you have to load that profile before it will work - that's the bit i mean about the coders sniffing glue as it's not overly intuitive. The saving of the profiles is a bit hit and miss too.
Once you get it working though, it'll stay working and will happily survive reboots.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. August 2009 @ 17:42
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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21. August 2009 @ 21:36 |
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OK, I will give it a try that way.
Also, a buddy is having problems with a virus. Would I be able to scan his Windows PC using my USB Linux if I get an anti virus program for it? If so, do you have any recommendations?
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varnull
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21. August 2009 @ 22:45 |
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clamav .. finds them all but you have to remove them manually and that might break it forever.. especially if it's a ntoskrnl based rootkit like tonights broken pile of junk some idiot has brought round at 11.30pm .. *sigh* .. looks like I will have to stick a spare hdd in.. install cakky xp and drag a new kernel over.. what a complete PITA!!
People bring you virused up crap.. just wipe it and install hookey windoze (or use "the usual "tricks" to get the key and activation backed up) then wipe the bloody thing properly with killdisk and partition the retarded crap properly so next time they don't lose everything when it bugs out or they click the wrong thing... Losing all their paid for itunes music and family pictures doesn't half stop them using IE and norton chocolate fireguard pretty quickly.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. August 2009 @ 22:48
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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21. August 2009 @ 23:46 |
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Yeah, I told him, I probably can't help much with a virus... Before switching to Firefox, I used to get a few bugs on my computers. I would always just format and reinstall. I always set up many partitions on my PCs now as a precaution.
I really don't feel like backing up his files to do a clean install. I don't know what he has on his PC or what he uses it for. He probably tried downloading some porn from a shady site.
I guess I can try backing up his activation and key and tell him to back anything important up. Then I can wipe his drive and reinstall windows for him correctly. He might actually be ok with Linux though, especially if he sees me run it from a flash drive ;)
Edit: BTW, the internet started working on Puppy :P I unloaded and reloaded the module for my card and it worked.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. August 2009 @ 00:43
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varnull
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22. August 2009 @ 07:11 |
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The puppy forums are really helpful with loading and unloading modules... I remember finding out how to add them for somebody a couple of weeks ago.. I keep my settings on a stick.. does help.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. August 2009 @ 07:12
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Moderator
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22. August 2009 @ 07:50 |
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Yeah i have a dedicated 1GB stick with all settings on, and it saves to it too. I have a couple smaller sticks but they don't boot on most machines (have you seen the price of any sized sticks lately, bloody ripoff). But the good thing about the Puppy stick is that if you're lost for a spare stick in an emergency you can just copy all the files off the Puppy stick, reuse the stick for something then simply copy the files back and voila, back to normal.
After what i said yesterday about Puppy's wifi settings sticking, well on the one laptop the settings have started being shy and not sticking, out of the blue. Typical bloody linux :) ..at least it's a doddle to run the network wizard and load the profile to fix it.
Puppy seems to squirrel things like network settings away in non-linux-standard places so i don't yet know where the settings are stored, but am not fussed to find them as long as the network wizard keeps working.
edit- this is why in the age of Windows mentality ie eveything being done by a GUI wizard and absconding the knowledge of doing stuff away from the user, that knowing/learning how things work underneath is important..
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. August 2009 @ 07:53
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varnull
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22. August 2009 @ 12:07 |
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Now I totally agree with that last sentiment after a dabble with the new sabayon. It looks great.. it works great.. but try connecting if it doesn't detect during setup :grrrrrr: .. Typical gentoo boys they have gone their own way with ipconfig syntax (not documented either) and the stupid gui thing has no way to change settings that I could find... Some things should be left alone IMHO .. they work (ipconfig for starters) so where does this desperate need to tinker and screw about come from? .. same with fstab.. whats with this moronic "new" (it's an antique unix-ucsf way to address an array actually from about 1968) way to name and address drives? .. since when has /dev/hd<whatever> not been good enough? We are ALL used to the way it's been done previously.. this new crap seems yet another way to distance people from their hardware for no apparent gain or purpose than obscurity... I smell novell/M$ influence behind it somewhere.. and we need to watch out.
Little whine about debian coming up... What is with the damn man.ac.uk repos?.. always screwed up.. being my most local I like to use them.. way too many 404's there for my liking yet again...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. August 2009 @ 12:11
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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24. August 2009 @ 22:00 |
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I tried the net install of Debian and all I can install is the command line. It fails on the DCHP step and cannot detect the network, so I can't install optional components and I guess the desktop environment needs to be downloaded. Anything I can do to fix this? I do not want to Download 20GB of DVD images! With my DL speed, I would be looking at 35 hours!
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varnull
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24. August 2009 @ 22:51 |
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How is your home network configured? Don't try this wireless.. it never works. Install the core system and lspci your network hardware.. then find what module you need. Should be able to load that from a stick.. must be pretty bloody odd network hardware for debian to not have the module ready loaded.. never ever seen that on a desktop system ever... It is possible to build from scratch everything.. apt is great at that.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. August 2009 @ 22:57
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JaguarGod
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25. August 2009 @ 00:20 |
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I am not sure how I configured the network. I have 2 PCs a notebook, 2 PS3s. The IP address is automatically assigned and it is somewhat static. The last bit of the address may change depending on the order that the device connects to the network. The router uses WEP encryption, so maybe that's why it doesn't connect? There was nowhere to enter the key, now that I think about it...
It recognizes that I have wireless card and has three options. The first two are the onboard network adapters on the motherboard and the third is the wireless card. It has a generic name though, something like "wifi Internet" I forget since it's been a couple hours.
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Don't try this wireless.. it never works
That's probably it then. From how I am understanding your post, you say to install Debian on the PC in my room. Then use lspci command to display my hardware. After switch to Windows Partition or use a laptop and download modules and save them on a USB stick.
Will give that a go, however, I do not know how to load modules from the command line. I will google it to see if I can get the answer and if not I will ask here again.
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varnull
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25. August 2009 @ 00:40 |
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debian netinstall will default to /dev/eth0 .. which is wired... i don't do wireless.. that's where it loses me.
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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25. August 2009 @ 14:44 |
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During installation it lets me select the network to configure, but the wireless fails to connect.
I tried lspci, but it does nothing. Am I totally retarded with command line? When it boots up, it asks to login. So I log in as my user name and password. Then it gives me something like:
Debian $#
I assume this is where to enter commands. I am so used to using a desktop environment that I am clueless with this.
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varnull
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25. August 2009 @ 14:53 |
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Moderator
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25. August 2009 @ 14:55 |
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Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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JaguarGod
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25. August 2009 @ 15:43 |
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Thanks! Got a good deal of reading ahead of me.
BTW, I managed to get lspci to work, but during installation. I went to the menu and used the "execute Shell command" option. I took screen shots, but I totally forgot what directory they went to. I figured I can access them with Puppy, but I can't find them :P It was something like rt61. It is a ralink wireless card. I don't get why the installation process does not ask for the WEP key though.
Thanks again for all the info. Will get to it shortly. Hopefully I can get this sucker on the PC.
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varnull
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25. August 2009 @ 17:25 |
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Installation won't ask for it.. it will install the core system.. then you have to configure the card and connection specifically.. then get everything you need or want.
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