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Ubuntu on Powerbook G4..?
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wiihass
Newbie
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3. October 2010 @ 06:17 |
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I'm trying to install Ubuntu on my Mac Powerbook G4 based off of advice of an online computer tech I chatted with. He said that I should go to this website:
http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/alternative-download
His words exactly are:
"Ubuntu is the choice. Just make sure to look in the alternate downloads section and make sure you are getting a PPC version. (Not Intel)
Here is an additional PPC link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCFAQ "
So, I think I know what I need to do but I just want to clarify with you all here that I'm doing everything correctly.
So, I go to this page:
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/lucid/release/
And I download the "Alternate install CD" link, right?
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases...ate-powerpc.iso
Next, I use Imgburn to burn that iso image onto a dvd. I burn it at 4x speed. After that, I put the dvd into my dvd drive and then I press F10 until I enter bios setup. (I'm not sure about this though) This is for my Compaq desktop. I think after I do that then I will be able to boot my computer from the Linux Ubuntu alternate install disc. I guess after that I just follow the directions on the screen.
Is all that correct? If I missed something or I'm incorrect on a couple of things, please let me know. Thank you!
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ps355528
Senior Member
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3. October 2010 @ 12:08 |
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I wouldn't use ubuntu.. their ppc implementation is really a pretty dire patch up of the full debian ppc release...
Another thing n00bs miss about ubuntu is... it's made from debian "experimental" libraries with screwed up dependencies meaning a lot of debian-all applications just won't work unless you know how to compile all kinds of things from source yourself (fixing and patching the code) to get around the messy dependency hell.
On this kind of hardware you NEED to be in control.. ubuntu doesn't allow you that control by taking too many of the decisions during setup out of your hands.
read this carefully before proceeding.. http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/
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wiihass
Newbie
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3. October 2010 @ 14:55 |
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Well, I don't know anything about Unix, Linux, Ubuntu, etc. etc. BUT what I wanted to do was install the most difficult OS on my Powerbook and learn it all from scratch. I don't know why but initially thought that I should install Unix on the Powerbook however the tech guy told me that Ubuntu would be the best OS for me. If his incorrect then which OS do you recommend to me for doing what I want to do?
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Schmick
Junior Member
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3. October 2010 @ 19:47 |
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Originally posted by wiihass:
what I wanted to do was install the most difficult OS
Install Windows! Hahahahahahaha!
^ PEBKAC ^
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wiihass
Newbie
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4. October 2010 @ 03:49 |
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Of course, I don't mean "difficult" in that sense. I mean "difficult" meaning that if I can master whichever OS that I choose, I will be best able to "understand everything about computers". Like hard at the beginning but if I stick it out then enormous benefits will be bestowed upon me. :)
So, which one is it? Or was the computer tech guy that recommended Ubuntu correct after all?
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ps355528
Senior Member
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4. October 2010 @ 06:44 |
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most difficult?.. well in linux world that will probably be gentoo.. or arch..
or you could really push the boat out and try solaris 9
ubuntu is made for morons.. it's the windoze of linux world.. just because they have heaps of money behind them doesn't make their product any good.. debian is the core distro.. always better to go with the major releases not the kiddy toys if you want to learn, because that's where the full time long term professional production machine users live... y'know.. the people who know what they are talking about instead of the plug and pray fools. You can see them on forums.. the people who never have to ask stupid questions because they go and find their own answers.. and also know when to call it a day when something will take too long to fix to make the trouble worthwhile.
If you "want to know everything about computers" then you have to roll your own.. try http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ and guess what.. you will have to learn all about ppc (dead end) architecture first... that will get you about 2% of the way to understanding how your specific hardware works.. totally pointless as the ppc architecture is a dead end.. obsolete.
Hey Mick.. the new puppy is an abortion.. oh please come back John Murga.. the prats are wrecking your beautiful live distro... It's now ugly and doesn't work properly.
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wiihass
Newbie
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4. October 2010 @ 07:27 |
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@ps355528 - I am going to try the linux from scratch website you advised but I have to ask a few obligatory questions first.
#1. This site explains everything to where anyone and I do mean anyone can do it, right?
By that I mean it assumes no prior knowledge and starts completely from scratch? (in terms of the OS/etc., that is) I inquire about this because truly from scratch would mean going out and locating and mining the raw materials and building a computer from the ground up that way. That is one thing that I am attempting to understand the process of. One book I am using is this one, which is available online for free:
http://www.fastchip.net/howcomputerswork/p1.html
The only prior knowledge that this book assumes is middle school science and the ability to communicate in English. No math at all is required since it will be covered in the book. This is the type of text/book/website/etc. that I am looking for.
#2. So, I am assuming that that linux from scratch site is exactly like I am describing right now, correct?
#3. From beginning to end for a total noob, who has no background in computers, math, nor science, how long will it take me to finish the "linux from scratch course" and have everything up and running on my computer(s)? I am pretty fluent in English though so hopefully language issues will not be a problem..
#4. Last question, I assume that since you recommended me that link then you have completed everything therein that site's contents and you are an expert on all of it. Right? So, besides the IRC channel there, will I be able to message you for guidance here if the book doesn't explain something clearly or whatever? I just really don't want to start this and then find out that there are no experts to turn to for guidance in this endeavor. :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. October 2010 @ 07:29
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wiihass
Newbie
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4. October 2010 @ 07:41 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. October 2010 @ 09:37
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ps355528
Senior Member
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4. October 2010 @ 20:18 |
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LFS is something you take up like a home study course.. I roll my own on really strange hardware because none of the distros seem to fit what I precisely need to run my parallel clusters.
It's all in the book.. everything you need to know do build a working linux base system.. and then the next book deals with how to build and install the specific bits and pieces you need... BUT.. and heres the thing.. though it's possible for anybody to follow the instructions and work it out it isn't for complete newbies to linux.. no way no how.. assumptions are made about knowing basics like how to patch code and how to compile software. While it is the best way to get a sleek and very fast powerful setup on PPC architecture it won't be easy.. I know because my current cluster is 6 old SPARC servers (thankyou so much my local Thompson Travel shop for your scrap hardware) and I just got through about 4 weeks building a fully parallel clustering distro for the nodes and load balancer.
If I was you I would get some experience first not with "does it all for you and breaks every 2 minutes" ubuntu .. but by installing a core debian system and then adding what you think you need.. that will get you into the idea of how partitioning works (ubuntu takes that out of your hands and it's a vital skill) and how to install and control a system from a root terminal command line with nothing else.. then you add a few niceties like a sensible editor (nano.. not the damn nightmare vi) and a pretty desktop and a proper user login.. all dead easy.. and with a huge benefit.. it stays small and fast.. My record for a fully functioning desktop is 16mb's.. 20 while taking a screenshot.
This is a scratch built system..
running on an ARM architecture with 32mb's ram total available.. it was actually an old process control server from a bottling plant.. just for fun..
So.. treat LFS as a hobby project.. you say you want to learn and thats the way to learn.. in the meantime download a ppc netinstall iso image from debian and just install a core system.. (while leaving a partition free for your lfs experiments perhaps?) then take it from there. Add things you need as you go along.. that way you don't get loads of crap you will probably never use.
I'm a busy girl.. I really don't have time to drop by for more than a couple of minutes two or three times a week.. I have servers to run and other stuff to be getting on with ;) I'm about 4 weeks late getting a website migrated to a new hosting.. dammit!! That's going to soak up my next few evenings at least :O
Happy Hunting .. you will like the challenge of getting a working debian desktop from a core install.. because it is real good fun.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. October 2010 @ 20:22
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wiihass
Newbie
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6. October 2010 @ 09:15 |
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I'm still confused about how to proceed with this but I think what I'll do is continue reading the "How Computers Work" online book that I'm reading and then after I finish that maybe I will understand better what you are saying here.
You see, what I'm looking for regarding a progressive outline is something analogous to this:
http://openfarmtech.org/index.php?title=...ucation_Program
So, if I were to exclude everything on the above list except #1. (Literacy) and start from there, what would be next in my quest to learn everything about computers?
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/#newbie
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ps355528
Senior Member
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6. October 2010 @ 12:07 |
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Find one in a dumpster and get it working? I don't buy hardware, I recycle peoples throwouts (seriously.. you don't want to see my spare room)
Once it starts try puppy4 (not 5.. it sucks) with just a cd drive and find out what hardware you have acquired. Hopefully it will be pretty off the shelf not funky apple stuff.
I works then you want to stick a hdd in it and take your pick of the off the shelf raw and rough round the edges linux.. for a real learning curve user experience slackware is hard to beat.
Get used to that and start compiling software first against your running system libraries, then architecture/environment independent (using a custom built tool set)
Then you can try getting clever.. once you have got familiar with how it all works try compiling source for a totally different operating system.. start with something nice and simple.. say a unix set of sources for a linux setup... that'll show you the differences and the similarities.
After that then it's time to breeze through a complete source compiled from scratch beastie.. once you can do that reliably on a few different architectures then it's time to move on to whatever part of the process interested you the most.. everybody wants to be a programmer.. very few ever get further than patching a bit of code.. mainly because it's a) damn boring and b) a lot of work reinventing the wheel.
By all means go for it.. but honest.. that list you presented me with would take 5 or 6 lifetimes to become competent in every aspect.. mathematics alone people devote whole lifetimes to and maybe only come up with one original thing.
A little thing jumped out at me from all of that.. the one thing they don't even brush on yet it is core to their open source ecology (oops.. I know what I'm talking about) RTOS .. just FYI.. the first RTOS was run on Whirlwind in the 1950's.. custom written for the hardware by those genius level coders at MIT. Nice bit of history.. they don't even touch on it (not in so many words.. but the implication is in there if you read it in the right way) but it is one of their projects goals.
That's an interesting paper.. looks to me like an outline for some higher college qualification.. the blueprint for a thesis or other piece. I copied it.. looks like an interesting thing to work through in the dark days of winter.. I think it's supposed to be theoretical rather than hands on... but working through the computer side of things will certainly be a decent grounding in the core skills needed to be a systems admin or process control engineer... or a systems analyst.. or a resources master.... I know the kinds of people they are looking for.. the thing is.. do the kinds of people they are looking for understand the question?
this is what I was up to last night.. had to edit the database by hand to fit the requirements of the remote hosts... instead of the easy "change a couple of config files" it takes to set it up on my server... few tweaks still required.. but first I have to deal with something else.. My field is process control hardware and software (self taught over 30 years) and that can keep me pretty busy sometimes.
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wiihass
Newbie
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6. October 2010 @ 17:12 |
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@ps355528 - I think you are starting to see what my goal is here (and the goal of Open Source Ecology OSE) and that is great! :D
BUT
What you have described is still not what OSE nor I am referring to. When I say from scratch, I am referring to really from scratch. From the very beginning. Imagine being naked in the wild and having to start over. That is the ?from scratch? we are speaking of here. So, that would entail actually locating the raw materials/minerals and then mining them and so on and so forth continually working your way from nothing to a modern computer. Now, I now you might be saying, ?but mining and blacksmithing and tool & die maker and a couple of other fields are not listed on OSE?s education curriculum? Yes, that is true and I have personally e-mailed Marcin about this. His response is that those areas will be added later once he has had time to establish contact with various subject matter experts in those fields.
You mentioned that ?RTOS? wasn?t listed in his ?from scratch? education curriculum. I don?t know what that is and you?re probably correct but there are a number of other areas also not listed in his current curriculum. To name a few, healthcare, weapons (gunsmithing, explosives, etc.), and a couple of others also.
So, I don?t expect that you would know how to build a computer from scratch (from locating, identifying, mining the raw materials/minerals) because this isn?t that type of forum. But now that you know what I mean by truly from scratch, now what would your recommended course of progression entail?
I have posted this one other computer forum as well. Here is the link:
http://forums.techguy.org/random-discuss...here-start.html
One thing though. Please ignore the portion of the original thread in which I stated that I thought I needed to learn math/physics/etc. I have since realized that that isn?t necessary at all. I came to that realization after gaining knowledge of the Open Source Ecology project.
So, now regarding the computer side, how do I proceed from scratch? :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. October 2010 @ 23:37
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ps355528
Senior Member
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7. October 2010 @ 20:23 |
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how about here?
http://www.ehow.com/how_4691053_build-analog-computer.html
I really don't see any point in reinventing the wheel.. which will have to be done somewhere along the line... firstly a need has to be identified.. but we have been there already a few thousand years ago.. so really.. what is the point?
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wiihass
Newbie
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7. October 2010 @ 23:48 |
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The point/goal isn't about satisfying a specific immediate need. The goal is knowledge and the open and wide dissemination of it. By the way, that link is very confusing. At least to me it is. :p
As you can see, it is a very difficult question that I inquire about here right now. I am going to try to work further on this with a member from one of the forums that I post at regularly because I aim to get on paper a specific progression outline starting from the bottom and up. As you can also see, a problem that I continue to encounter is that whenever I bring up this quest for knowledge, 99% of people will just randomly throw out different areas of computer study WITHOUT explaining specifically why that material(s) need to be studied and what essential core competencies does that study satisfy, etc.
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