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Anonymous/IP/ISP Question
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jwhitt12
Junior Member
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21. January 2010 @ 21:51 |
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I am trying to understand the Anonymous thing and whether it works. As far as I can tell there is two ways to go (based, I suspect, on just what the user is doing). One way is to subscribe to somebody's server. Then, when you want to download something you tell them what and they get it, and send it to you, ENCRYPTED, through their server. What this apparently does is, with the encryption, is to disallow the ISP (Internet Service Provider) from knowing what you are doing. I tend to believe this may be the simpler of the two and would take care of ISP's spying on activity and then making judgements as to whether you should be doing what you do.
The second confuses me. This too seems to involve somebody else's servers and also seems to have incryption. In addition to that they also mess with your IP address. This one confuses. It is my understanding that the ISP assigns your ISP. I do understand that one can create a proxy but, in the end, the ISP knows exactly what bits and bytes the user is messing with. A proxy may confuse others but, I think, its unlikely to confuse the ISP?
Anyway, apparently the main goal is the confuse nosy ISP's (and anybody else who wants to know your business).
Now, my question is what is best. From what I can tell one is going to have to pay. I do understand there are programs, and even systems (networks) that one can hook into but those that are free have speed problems, etc. So, again, what is the best way to go?
Thank you....................
john g white
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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22. January 2010 @ 09:15 |
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I can't add much except the biggest deal is that the protocol changes. The ISPs are looking for torrent protocols. You can encrypt a regular torrent so they do not know what you are doing other than you are using torrents. They are sill logging your torrent usage. By switching protocols you are staying one step ahead of them. The cyber police like any predator, goes for the low hanging fruit.
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jwhitt12
Junior Member
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22. January 2010 @ 14:51 |
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Thanks for the reply.
Your thought makes absolute sense. The problem is that encryption has to be done, I think, on two ends which makes it kinda difficult, unless one is downloading torrents from a site that does encrypt. Downloading from pirate bay, for instance, would not result in encrypted torrents (well, unless one was using their new, whiz bang, Ipredator?)
So, dealing with a site like giganews (encrypted downloads) might be the best way to deal with this stuff? It seems, on the face of it, that the usenet option might be the simpler of the two? Ipredator, on the other hand, costs about 90.00 a year against about 180.00 for full blowed usenet (giganews (I know, there are cheaper sources)).
john g white
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lubricant
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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25. January 2010 @ 21:33 |
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jwhitt, im not too sure that there are torrent sites that will encrypt for you (https though maybe?). because the actual files are traded through peers, not that server. i can tell you however, that at least a couple of torrent programs allow encryption of data... take for instance, utorrent which you can make outgoing connections forced encryption, and to disallow any 'legacy incoming' connections, which are not encrypted.
ever heard of mute, stealthnet, antsp2p? they are 'anonymous' file sharing clients. although they're atrociously slow, i thought i would bring them to your attention, because as internet speeds increase, hopefully the amount of users populating these networks will too.
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jwhitt12
Junior Member
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26. January 2010 @ 01:47 |
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Thanks for the reply. As far as I can tell programs like the Ipredator thing seems to do two things. It does the proxy thing, on every box involved, and then it does the peer/seed thing on their servers and, then, sends the results, encrypted, to the user of the program. Seems pretty complex but they have a LOT of subscribers, and its cheaper than usenet. They also claim some respectable speed. On reflection this seems to approximate the same thing that safe usenet providers do, except that it deals with torrents instead of single/segmented files.
I suspect I don't have this one down as much as I think, as I am kinda new to this stuff, but not to computers. On the other hand that's what I would probably do.
john g white
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scum101
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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26. January 2010 @ 03:25 |
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nothing you do can hide your traffic from YOUR isp.. except for stealing your neighbours wifi of course. in the UK if you encrypt your data and the law wants a look.. they can demand you hand your keys over.. or go to jail for 2 years..
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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26. January 2010 @ 09:20 |
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Yes scum you ought to know. You are as fatelistic as I am. You can force encryption on your client. Then you will only connect with like-minded clients. However the protocal is still torrents. That can't be hidden and still work. It offers a level of protection probably better than a blocker but you are far from safe. NOTHING will make you safe. Even the 'anonymous' nets are not safe.
Going to a newsgroup that uses IP tunneling provides another level of protection. Like all preditors, the cyber police go for low hanging fruit. Even forced encryption provides some protection. They have to work to get to you. However, if you are down loading large amounts of data they will come after you no matter what you use. ALL ISPs keep a record of your usage if you exceed an amount they think is excessive.
The only way you can swap large amounts of data undetected is not using the internet at all. Mail has an incredible band width when you ship a 2t HD. You just need to find persons in your country willing to work as a team.
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jwhitt12
Junior Member
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26. January 2010 @ 19:21 |
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Insofar as the torrent themselves. Is the problem with downloading the torrent itself or using the downloaded torrent after the torrent is downloaded?
john g white
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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26. January 2010 @ 21:48 |
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No one care about downloading a torrent. That is a FTP process and 100% legal anywhere. It is downloading the material using torrent clients that can be a problem. They use torrent protocols which are unique. ISPs track torrent traffic. They are all fairly forgiving in countrys where P2P is legal some ISPs are more some less forgiving. Ones that have competition are more forgiving one that don't have competition are far less forgiving. If you encrypt the ISP knows that you are using torrents but do not know what you are downloading. They may not bother you unless you DL too much for their liking. Some then hack your computer to see what you have been doing. That is not legal but no one seems to care.
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lubricant
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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26. January 2010 @ 23:43 |
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Originally posted by Mez:
Some then hack your computer to see what you have been doing. That is not legal but no one seems to care.
umm.. wouldnt it be easier both legally and in terms of manpower to just have a look at the isp logs of a customers data. hacking computers to see what you have been doing sounds pretty black hat and generally something i would think most isps would want to avoid. otherwise, thanks for the tips.
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jwhitt12
Junior Member
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27. January 2010 @ 00:07 |
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If one receives the data encrypted is there anyway that the isp can tell what one is downloading? Not that I would do such a thing but, its my understanding that the DMCA folk have a plan. They have tried to go after them that distribute and have failed. Their plan now seems to be to make the ISP's keep track of what folks are downloading. If one of those downloads offend against the DMCA then they tell the ISP's to turn off your access. So, I suspect that encryption is probably the way to go but, if they can get data off the torrent then that won't work.
Thoughts?
john g white
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lubricant
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27. January 2010 @ 00:36 |
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i believe while the data may be pretty hard to determine, the IP adresses from which you have got them is not. read up on https protocol (wikipedia would be one i suggest) and how it works to better understand how and why it is harder for encrypted communications to be determined
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scum101
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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27. January 2010 @ 04:36 |
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Right kids.. here is a little bit of something which those of us who have been online before there was such a thing as the internet know about data packets...
EVERY packet of data, of whatever length.. 8 bits.. 8mb's whatever.. has a thing called a header..
In the header are such things as..
The IP requesting the data (yours)
The IP sending the data (wherever it is coming from)
The packet number (number xxx of xxx)
A few bits to handshake.. "have you got it?.. if yes send xxxx to me so I can send the next bit"
If encrypted or not doesn't really make a lot of difference.. the source and destination ip's are clearly available and the size of the file (and whatever else the protocol that is being used cares to say about it's content etc) are all there for ANY cable operator along the path to have a look at depending on their whims.
This is how the internet works.. it's how computers have talked to each other since the dawn of the tcp/ip setup which predates the internet by a decade or more.. can't remember offhand..
your isp is a "man in the middle" .. no matter what you do your data passes across their lines.. it's not hard even with encrypted data to have a look at the source ip and strip a header from a packet.. set the request to 1 of xxxx and request the file from the server... and there they have you..
before people start spouting about "isp's don't have the power to decrypt my encryption" .. err.. people.. how many computers does the average isp have set up as one huge cloud cluster? A few hundred thousand?.. maybe a million??.. they can team up as well..
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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27. January 2010 @ 10:41 |
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lubricant Cox, a US ISP, has a history of hacking into computers. Read a parallel post to this one started by mis4ta. This happened less than a week ago. Explain how Cox knew that mis4ta did not delete the files ASAP as directed. They have been doing this for over a year. No one has stopped them in a country where hacking is highly illegal.
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jwhitt12
Junior Member
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27. January 2010 @ 18:50 |
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So, does this mean that its impossible to download anything without the ISP knowing exactly what you are doing?
john g white
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