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build vs buy
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7. November 2009 @ 08:13 |
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I've always built my own systems for quite a few years, but I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this place.
http://www.pcusa.com
I'm not sure even newegg can get me all the components cheaper than they can send me a complete system. just wondering if anyone has any history or experiences with this company.
kurt
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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7. November 2009 @ 14:20 |
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Right. I spec'ed the following system
Antec 300 case
Antec Earthwatts 650W PSU (650W is way more than needed, but it's the cheapest PSU that isn't a terrible brand)
i7 920 (no i5 builds I notice, considering I recommend nothing but i5s for game systems on intermediate budgets upwards, this is poor)
EX58-UD3R
6GB 1600mhz RAM (notice the brand isn't selectable, judging from the picture you'll get given low quality OCZ RAM)
HD4890 1GB
HDD1: 300GB WD Velociraptor
HDD2: 640GB WD Caviar Blue (biggest they will do that doesn't risk getting an unreliable brand)
24x DVD burner
Total price quoted: $1373 shipped.
Now let's look this all up on newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066 (I chose the illusion version that comes with front fans as that cools much better)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005 (An equivalent PSU but better)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128375
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145236 (same RAM but low latency and a guaranteed good brand)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161299 (A guaranteed good version, the card supplied by PCUSA is likely to be a cheap grade version)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136322
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118030
Newegg total: $1306, with $55 of rebates, so the ultimate cost is $122 less (though newegg delivery is not free), but you get a better quality PSU, RAM and possibly graphics card as well.
However, now consider what would happen if I swapped the i7 920, EX58-UD3R and 6GB of RAM for an i5 750, P55-UD3R and 4GB of RAM, which actually makes for a slightly better gaming system.
Total price now works out to be $1099 with $35 of rebates. By buying from newegg you've saved well over $300, and got a better PC for it.
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Xplorer4
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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7. November 2009 @ 18:00 |
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Originally posted by actech:
I've always built my own systems for quite a few years, but I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this place.
http://www.pcusa.com
I'm not sure even newegg can get me all the components cheaper than they can send me a complete system. just wondering if anyone has any history or experiences with this company.
kurt
Well Sam already covered one aspect, but I just wanted to add that personally I dont mind spending a little more on newegg, and know im dealing with a reputable dealer with good service, then spend less on a questionable dealer with questionable service. This way I know if theres a problem, its going to be dealt with quick and proper.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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9. November 2009 @ 04:07 |
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Originally posted by Xplorer4:
Originally posted by actech:
I've always built my own systems for quite a few years, but I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this place.
http://www.pcusa.com
I'm not sure even newegg can get me all the components cheaper than they can send me a complete system. just wondering if anyone has any history or experiences with this company.
kurt
Well Sam already covered one aspect, but I just wanted to add that personally I dont mind spending a little more on newegg, and know im dealing with a reputable dealer with good service, then spend less on a questionable dealer with questionable service. This way I know if theres a problem, its going to be dealt with quick and proper.
Just be carefull with the return rules...many of newegg's items cannot be returned if they are half-broken on delivery...the rest will cost you money to replace or return (more to return), even if they are DOA. As much as I hate Amazon, their friendly return service is much better than Newegg, with similar prices.
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Xplorer4
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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9. November 2009 @ 15:16 |
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I hate Amazon. Dealt with them many years ago over a problem with an order and couldnt disagree more. On the other hand I havent had a single problem with NewEgg. None the less, i was using newegg primarily as an example.
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Member
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9. November 2009 @ 21:07 |
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Plus its enjoyable to build it myself. so I will probably go with newegg again, another plus I thought of with the "egg" I can look up the specs on components all the way back to my first build.
thanks for the input
kurt
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Member
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10. November 2009 @ 02:34 |
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Originally posted by KillerBug:
Just be carefull with the return rules...many of newegg's items cannot be returned if they are half-broken on delivery...the rest will cost you money to replace or return (more to return), even if they are DOA. As much as I hate Amazon, their friendly return service is much better than Newegg, with similar prices.
My latest NewEgg return data point: I ordered two similar processors. One was a mistake and needed to be canceled. It had already received a tracking number so my only real option was to refuse it upon delivery. Using the same unopened package NewEgg had used to ship to me, I simply turned it around and told the nice UPS driver thanks-but-no thanks and zipping right along it goes straight back to NewEgg. NewEgg receives it, refunds all my purchase and shipping charges and does not charge me a restocking fee.
I have used Amazon once this year. I needed two WD Caviar Black 1TB drives and NewEgg only had one. Amazon had the same drive for $10 less, no shipping and one-day-longer delivery. Get this: if I were to return it to Amazon for any snotty reason (I didn't like the color) within their timetable, they would give me a full refund without any of NewEgg's admittedly punitive restocking fees. I made a positive mental note on that one.
Whenever you make a non-standard return--non-standard in any way--work with the NewEggs chat support staff to let them know what is coming. The guy who open the stuff on the dock hate surprises and if they know what to expect they stay much more calm. Lower blood pressure equals easier returns.
Dick
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Xplorer4
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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11. November 2009 @ 03:35 |
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So are you putting Amazon over, Newegg over, or both?
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Member
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11. November 2009 @ 20:51 |
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Originally posted by Xplorer4:
So are you putting Amazon over, Newegg over, or both?
Neither. :) The one-day shipping difference isn't a deal-breaker for me. The no restocking fee policy isn't a big issue with me because I seldom return stuff. The $10 lower price on Amazon is offset by the slightly higher prices on other items.
I still think NewEgg is the best source here in the US, but on some products Amazon is competitive and shouldn't be ruled out as an alternate source.
Dick
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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12. November 2009 @ 23:54 |
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I used to prefer newegg for everything...but I have had some bad experiences with an Asus screen and a WD hard drive that I ordered from newegg...each cost me a lot in shipping, and the WD cost me more for a "restocking fee" on a broken drive.
I got a Boss stereo from amazon...it was defective, and I decided that I should go with a better brand. I asked for a refund, they approved it, and sent me a prepaid shipping label. They even refunded me my original shipping! Like I said, it is hard for me to buy from the same company that destroyed lots of copies of 1984 and animal farm...but they realy are the safest choice.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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12. November 2009 @ 23:55 |
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Quote:
and the WD cost me more for a "restocking fee" on a broken drive.
Probably because it wasn't broken in the first place :P
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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13. November 2009 @ 00:55 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Quote:
and the WD cost me more for a "restocking fee" on a broken drive.
Probably because it wasn't broken in the first place :P
Ok, but if we assume this, then we must assume that it is normal for WD drives not to work with any controler you try. I am starting to think this, but I know that they do occasionaly work with some controllers.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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13. November 2009 @ 01:02 |
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At all, on any of them? Remember you have to unfortunately overlook the RAID drop-out issue, as that is within spec for the drives.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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14. November 2009 @ 10:15 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
At all, on any of them? Remember you have to unfortunately overlook the RAID drop-out issue, as that is within spec for the drives.
I used their little utility. The fact is that the drives kept "dropping out" on every controler I tried them with (other than the second of the three...that one didn't even power up)...and two of them were onboard controlers that were not in RAID mode. If this is within spec, then I know for a fact that I (and everyone) should stay far away from WD hard drives...they might as well make the spec "the drive does not work at all"...that way, all 3 of my drives would have been "within specifications". You advise people to buy drives that you don't even own...I advise people to buy drives that I have been using 3 of for over a year, 24-7. I even went so far as to give WD 3 chances to change my mind...and they failed me three times in a row.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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14. November 2009 @ 15:12 |
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Drives I don't even own... right. As far as I was aware you bought 1.5TB green drives?
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scum101
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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14. November 2009 @ 15:34 |
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y'know Sam .. it tickles me these people.. obviously if they have to ask that question they haven't a clue so should go and fork out their £399 in pc world.
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Member
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14. November 2009 @ 17:37 |
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Originally posted by KillerBug:
Ok, but if we assume this, then we must assume that it is normal for WD drives not to work with any controller you try. I am starting to think this, but I know that they do occasionally work with some controllers.
Lord knows I'm far from the most experienced guy on the board, but during the past year I've purchased fourteen new WD drives: three RE2, two VelociRaptors, six Caviar Blacks, one Caviar Blue and two My Books. The internal drives were plugged into a combination of Dell, Intel and GB motherboards. I won't say I didn't have any failures--after nine months one of the external My Books failed and WD had to send me a new one--but as far as out of the box is concerned, they all worked perfectly with whatever I plugged them into.
I'm not saying you didn't have a string of bad drives, but WD must be doing -something- right.
Dick
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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14. November 2009 @ 18:01 |
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Indeed, and other than one faulty SE16 which wouldn't write, I've owned:
WD1600B series, WD2000B series, WD2500JD x2, WD2500AAJS, WD5000AAKS x2, WD360GD x2, WD10EADS x2, WD10EACS, ED10EAVS, WD15EADS and WD1001FALS. All of these drives have been perfect, on Gigabyte, Asus and MSI controllers. Faulty products crop up from time to time, but seriously, WD have the highest quality record of any of the current HDD brands. I was reminded of that fact today when another LAN goer had four of their Samsung F1s fail at once and their RAID array broke.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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15. November 2009 @ 05:29 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Indeed, and other than one faulty SE16 which wouldn't write, I've owned:
WD1600B series, WD2000B series, WD2500JD x2, WD2500AAJS, WD5000AAKS x2, WD360GD x2, WD10EADS x2, WD10EACS, ED10EAVS, WD15EADS and WD1001FALS. All of these drives have been perfect, on Gigabyte, Asus and MSI controllers. Faulty products crop up from time to time, but seriously, WD have the highest quality record of any of the current HDD brands. I was reminded of that fact today when another LAN goer had four of their Samsung F1s fail at once and their RAID array broke.
I certainly wouldn't argue with the high failure rates of samsungs, as that brand has been far worse to me than WD...but I suspect there were other issues if four drives failed at once...that sounds more like a bad controler or power supply...maybe they just came loose on the way to the LAN party. I have had too many seagates to list, and with the exception of laptop drives (both Seagate and WD laptop drives suck), I have not had any failures...they just become too outdated to use. I know this is at least a little luck, but 100+ perfect seagates in a row followed by 3 bad WD in a row certainly seems to be more than just luck. I have had some good WD drives...I still have 3 old 40GB drives that I pulled from a server a few years back, and they were gold back in the days of ATA...but there is no way I would trust their 1.5TB again, even in RAID. Like I said before, there is nothing anyone here can say that will convince me to buy another WD any time soon.
BTW...the fact that WD is still making the firmware on these drives to prevent using them with hardware RAID, or even with cached controlers, shows that they don't even consider these to be good drives deserving of being put into high-end systems. They have drawn a line in the sand, and decided to be a budget brand...only without the low prices. They still don't even offer a 7200RPM/"black edition", well over a year after seagate worked out the bugs in their 7200RPM 1.5TB. The fact that their 1.5TB is more expensive, slower, and intentionaly crippled should be enough to keep anyone away.
BTW2 - When did you get that 1.5 sam? It can't be more than 3 months old; as I remember about 3 months ago you said you didn't have one yet, but were planning to get a few for a RAID5 array. 3 months is hardly anything to brag about; though it is much better than I was able to get from any of those drives.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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15. November 2009 @ 07:23 |
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I would consider that, but for the fact that I actually know two other people that had the exact same experience with them, a large group failing in the same short space of time. I've not seen that with any other brand.
As far as WD keeping the same firmware, it works for the rest of us, so not much reason to change it. There is a 1.5TB Black Edition but it hasn't seen much retail availability yet. Given the appalling reliability of Seagate's 7200.12 series, perhaps WD decided not to retail a drive that wasn't ready, instead of just losing everyone's data like Seagate.
I picked up the WD15EADS around a month or so ago. It performs exactly like the other WD Greens I used, never have any issues with it.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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15. November 2009 @ 23:20 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
I would consider that, but for the fact that I actually know two other people that had the exact same experience with them, a large group failing in the same short space of time. I've not seen that with any other brand.
As far as WD keeping the same firmware, it works for the rest of us, so not much reason to change it. There is a 1.5TB Black Edition but it hasn't seen much retail availability yet. Given the appalling reliability of Seagate's 7200.12 series, perhaps WD decided not to retail a drive that wasn't ready, instead of just losing everyone's data like Seagate.
I picked up the WD15EADS around a month or so ago. It performs exactly like the other WD Greens I used, never have any issues with it.
I guess we are just going to have to agree to diasagree...this is turning into one of those issues where neither side can convince the other. I KNOW that I should not buy a WD, and you KNOW that you should not buy a Seagate. We might as well argue about religeon or politics for all the headway we might make. At least we can agree on this: Samsungs are junk.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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16. November 2009 @ 06:49 |
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I think that's a fair compromise, though just to be perverse, I haven't heard anything bad about the F[/b]2[/b]s yet, just that the F1s are awful. (Even though I own two of them... - to be fair, it's only the 1TB versions that suffer from the spontaneous group failures, the others are just generally mediocre for reliability, I eventually want to get shot of both of my HD753LJs and my 7200.10 750GB for WDs, though I have no concern over the Seagate for reliability as I know only the 7200.12s ard dodgy, the noise the thing makes is absurd)
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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17. November 2009 @ 00:37 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
I think that's a fair compromise, though just to be perverse, I haven't heard anything bad about the F[/b]2[/b]s yet, just that the F1s are awful. (Even though I own two of them... - to be fair, it's only the 1TB versions that suffer from the spontaneous group failures, the others are just generally mediocre for reliability, I eventually want to get shot of both of my HD753LJs and my 7200.10 750GB for WDs, though I have no concern over the Seagate for reliability as I know only the 7200.12s ard dodgy, the noise the thing makes is absurd)
I doubt you would want them, but they make a slower (WD would call it a "green" drive) version for people who are concerned about noise, power use, and heat...I prefer speed, so I paid the $10 extra each for the 7200RPM version.
BTW...I have not even tried the F1 drives as I heard about the problems before I even heard about the drives! This was not their first massivly defective drive series.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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17. November 2009 @ 00:40 |
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I avoided Seagate's low power drives as WD still seem to have the best score for quietness, and that was really what I was aiming for. My single 7200.10 and HD753LJ can be heard clearly above the other WD5000AAKS pair and five WD green drives.
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