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Need help building a system with decent gaming ability
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chopchop3
Newbie
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9. November 2009 @ 22:57 |
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Hi everybody, I'm new to the forum and it seems like this is the right place to ask for advises from experts.
I recently moved to Hong Kong and I am looking to get a new desktop that has decent gaming ability, it would be games like COD6, Dragon Age, Operation Flashpoint etc. I don't spend a whole lot of time on PC gaming but I had a 9600GT and E2180 on my previous Dell desktop. I am looking for something similar, but better of course, because the E2180 does feel slow at times when I multitask. The computer won't be used for any video editing, maybe some picture editing in the future. Here is the build I was suggested by a local computer shop, quoted at around $550 USD.
AMD Phenom II x4 925 2.8ghz
MSI 770-C51
4gb DDR3 1333mhz
500 gb harddrive
GTS 250 1gb
Choice of ATX case with 380w power supply (Which I think he forgot to upgrade to a 450w after upgrading the graphics card)
I know they don't really provide the brands for most of the parts like RAM and such, I am not that into computer building so I am not sure if this is a good choice for what I am doing or not.
I know this will sound dumb but I have never built a computer myself so I am wondering how much work is required? I have installed power supply, ram, harddrive and graphics card on my last computer but never done anything on the motherboard and cpu. I have a legit copy of Windows 7 Professional from my university so I am looking to build it myself if possible, if not I will buy the setup above and install Windows 7 myself.
Feel free to comment on this setup or suggest anything different with specific models/brands. I really appreciate any help as I am trying to learn a bit more about PC building.
Thanks!
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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10. November 2009 @ 01:19 |
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I wouldn't buy generic parts...most name brands don't even make quality stuff, so the generic is downright terrible.
That build isn't very good...the video card is low-end and outdates, the CPU is very slow (even for AMD), the mainboard is from a crummy brand, DDR3 is slower than more affordable DDR2 when used with the Phenom II, the 500GB hard drive is probably a 5200-5400 RPM model, and most "450W" power supplies actualy deliver much less than this.
I don't have time to design a build right now, but I'm sure others do.
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Member
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10. November 2009 @ 01:25 |
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$550 bucks might be a good challenge for some of the vets here.
Interesting to see what kind of opinions we'll get.
*Intel® Core?2 Quad Processor Q9450 (12M Cache, 2.66 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) laid with Shinetsu Microsis Thermal Paste***** Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme with 2 x Scythe "S-FLEX?" S-FDB 120mm Quiet FAN (SFF21G)(1900 RPM)***** GigaByte EX38-DS4 with F6C AHCI BIOS***** OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 2x2 GB***** 2 x MSI R3870X2-T2D1G in Crossfire Mode***** Antec Twelve Hundred with 2 x Scythe "S-FLEX?" S-FDB 120mm Quiet FAN (SFF21F)(1600 RPM)as optional fans***** PSU Coolermaster Real Power Pro 1250W (RS-C50-EMBA-D2)***** 5 x Samsung Spinpoint 1TB (HD103UJ)(3 on RAID 5 Win 7 X64 and 2 on RAID 0 Win XP X64)***** Pioneer DVR-215D***** Monitor 1 Hannspree Verona 22" Widescreen Monitor (1680x1050)***** Monitor 2 Sony Bravia KDL-46W4500 46" (1920x1080)* |
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Xplorer4
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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10. November 2009 @ 01:41 |
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Swap the GTS250 for a 4870:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...0-436-_-Product
About the same price but better performance.
On the HD make sure its a WesternDigital with 32 MB cache.
Make sure the RAM is skill or corsair.
Get a Corsair PSU favorably. As for wattage, the Phenom X4 and GPU(weather you get a 260 or preferably 4870) are both a bit power hungry, so a Corsair hx520 to power everything would be good.
As for building, it doesnt take rocket science. Everything can only fit one way so if something doesnt fit, turn it around and try again rather then forcing it. I always like to say its like a Lego kit where everything only fits one way. Building will assure you get quality parts all the way around as theres a chance they could throw in some cheap ram,hd and psu. I have a feeling that might be putting you a bit over $550 but we can trim it down a bit if its to much.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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10. November 2009 @ 06:14 |
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jony218
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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10. November 2009 @ 20:31 |
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Phenoms are good for gamming even the lower tier cpu. I have the phenom 9750 and it is a great cpu, overkill for gamming but the price was good. The phenom you choose will work fine.
Even a radeon 4670 ($80.00) will play all those games, not at extreme resolution but will give you decent play. Also this card doesn't require a large power supply. My phenom/4670 and 4x hard drives run fine on a "works" 400 watt power supply.
My motto is never spend more than you need. The intels I5/I7 are fast but those are for video editing, they are overkill for gamming. Since you only plan to do occasional gamming your budget seems reasonable.
Check youtube for video cards performance. Just type in the model you want and you can check reviews on them playing games.
The only hard part in building a computer is installing the cpu fan, and making sure all the case wires are in the correct spot. A bright flashlight comes in handy. Also get plastic spot ties to tie the wires so they don't hit the case/cpu fans.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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11. November 2009 @ 12:10 |
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The Phenom 9750 is overkill for gaming... Uh, no, the Phenom 9750 is barely powerful enough for gaming, let alone overkill. For low-end gaming the AMD CPUs are pretty much the only option since they're so cheap. A Core i5 would obliterate any of the AMD lineup (A core i5 is not a video editing CPU), but as posted, is a little excessive for this budget.
Most of Killerbug's build is wise - the abysmal case will cause you heat problems for gaming grade hardware though, and he's also chosen a non-reference Powercolor graphics card, which will last all of 3-4 months before failing. Replace the card with this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102825
and the case with this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119106
The rest of the build is solid.
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chopchop3
Newbie
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11. November 2009 @ 12:31 |
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Thanks for all the help.
If I am willing to go slightly higher for my budget, would getting the i5 be a better idea since the price of the CPU, comparing to the AMD, is not much higher?
Since I only play PC games occasionally, should I choose a slightly lower end card to save money? I mainly do torrents, day to day word processing and basic tasks. I want something that won't bog down on me when I run a few more applications.
Am I better off sticking with DDR2 ram, rather than DDR3?
Lastly, any links to a guide to building a PC after obtaining all the parts?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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11. November 2009 @ 12:38 |
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The i5 750 is a fantastically cheap CPU for what it is, it's substantially faster than even the most powerful AMD chip, the X4 965. However, what must be considered is the cost of the rest of the architecture, there are no uber-cheap low-end boards for the core i5 platform yet. While the i5 is an amazing gaming and multitasking chip, if you don't play any demanding games OR use many CPU-intensive programs then you could probably get away with something less. I'll leave it up to you on that front. The AMD CPU with the cheap board and good RAM runs you $320. The i5 build below gets you a much better motherboard for features but in total will cost you $416. Is the extra worth the money? Absolutely. Is the extra worth it for you? That's something that's really down to you.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128406
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145260
If you use a cheap low-end AMD board, you have to use DDR2, that's what fits. If you use a Core i5, you have to use DDR3, it's pretty much that simple, there are no innate advantages/disadvantages to it.
As far as how to build, right here of course!
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kfcheung
Newbie
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11. November 2009 @ 17:33 |
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I would get the smallest components possible for the same performance/price but hey, that's just me.
cpu
personally, I wouldnt get the phenoms if I even play games at all
1) they suffer on games with higher requirements
2) AMD is not taking aggressive enough to make new cpus for the same socket which means very little chance to upgrade for a better cpu without replacing the motherboard. So I wouldnt hope for a better performance for the long run while Intel 8400/q9550 are still good for a few years. And ofcourse q9550 will last longer because when games do really support quads, q9550 will run better on games.
3) Intel duos like E8400 is better at this case because majority of the games don't utilize 4 cores but 2 only. It will even take some time for some games to optimize for quad usage. With just some easy overclocking to 3.4ghz, this cpu is the king of budget gaming.
video card
1) gts250 is a good choice for low budget gaming but if your budget allows, 5770 is a much better choice. It's about 10fps increase on most games with half the power supply requirements.
2) In terms of performance only, 4870 is unbeatable at this price point. But then a bigger case and power supply will increase the budget as well. So it's not necessarily a good choice for everyone.
hard drive
I wouldnt get a generic or other brands hard drives other than WD 500gb black unless saving about $10 is crucial. WD 500gb black utilizes a technology that is exclusive to itself only which allows the hard drive to use with a dual controller other than a single one found in other hard drives. A dual controller essentially reduce the access time needed to locate a file. Hence you will find better response when you open up an application.
RAM
No name brand RAM is a nightmare. They suffer in any games and fail frequently. In terms of gaming performance, there's only a slight 5% increase when gaming on DDR3 RAM compare to DDR2. So DDR3 shouldnt be the first priority when choosing RAM. Speed of DDR-2 800 is more than enough speed for games so far.
www.ncix.com CANADA
Zotac GF9300-D-E MINI-ITX LGA775 GeForce 9300 DDR2 1PCI-E16 2SATA2 RAID GBLAN Wifi HDMI Motherboard
In Stock 36236 $132.07
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Dual Core Processor LGA775 3.0GHZ Wolfdale 1333FSB 6MB Retail
In Stock 27784 $185.99
Western Digital Caviar Black 500GB 7200RPM 32MB Dual Proc SATA 3.5IN Hard Drive OEM 5YR MFR Warranty
In Stock 33883 $61.37
Silverstone Sugo SG06B Black SFF MINI-ITX MINI-DTX Case 1X5.25 Slim 1X2.5IN 1X3.5IN W/ Sfx 300W PSU
In Stock 40613 $110.51
Liteon Internal Slim 8X DVD Writer SATA
In Stock 45433 $41.68
OCZ Gold XTC PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL5-5-5-18 DDR2 240PIN Dual Channel Memory K *IR-$11*
In Stock 23482 $114.81
Sapphire Radeon HD 5770 850MHZ 1GB 4.8GHZ GDDR5 PCI-E 2XDVI HDMI Display Port Lite Retail Video Card
In Stock 45066 $177.61
YOUR TOTAL BEFORE TAX $824.04
They are all in Canadian dollars
*notes
- you can step up the cpu to a quad core(Q9550) for about $60
- you can step down the video card(gts 250) for about $40
Let me know if you got any questions/concerns, I would gladly help.
Antony
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. November 2009 @ 00:46
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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11. November 2009 @ 22:54 |
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Ok, disecting this post - small systems are cool, but not necessary for everyone, they cost far more for the same performance, which is a waste of money if you don't need a compact system.
As for CPUs - 1. Sort of. They only have issues with really top-end CPU-intensive games like Crysis Warhead and GTA4.
2. You seem to think AMD don't make quad cores? All the advantages that apply to quads apply to AMDs too.
3. The E8400 is not better for games, it is way overpriced, quad cores like the Q9400 are the same price. Quad core CPUs do work in games, and will only get better from here. I recommend dual cores for low-end systems and stop at the E7000 series as they are reasonably priced. When a dual costs as much as quad, it just isn't worth it. On the whole I agree with the sentiment of sticking with an Intel CPU, but things aren't quite as one-sided as you say.
For the video card, agreed on the HD5770, it's not great performance per dollar, but great performance per watt. The best value gaming card out now is actually the HD4890. Any midi-ATX case will fit a 4890, and you can get quite cheap ones, unlike the miniITX platform.
For the HDDs, the dual controller only applies to the 2TB WD Caviar Black drive, none of the others, so it's not really applicable. However, Caviar Blacks are more reliable and every bit as fast, if not faster, than the alternatives.
For RAM, no name brand is bad, but OCZ RAM is no better. Do yourself a favour, stick with trusted brands - Corsair, G-Skill, Mushkin or Patriot.
For close to that $824, here's what I would suggest:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128406
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145260
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136283
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161299
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118030
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119106
This lot comes to $857 but with $40 of rebates, and is a far superior system.
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Xplorer4
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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12. November 2009 @ 01:50 |
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Originally posted by kfcheung:
www.ncix.com CANADA
Zotac GF9300-D-E MINI-ITX LGA775 GeForce 9300 DDR2 1PCI-E16 2SATA2 RAID GBLAN Wifi HDMI Motherboard
In Stock 36236 $132.07
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Dual Core Processor LGA775 3.0GHZ Wolfdale 1333FSB 6MB Retail
In Stock 27784 $185.99
Western Digital Caviar Black 500GB 7200RPM 32MB Dual Proc SATA 3.5IN Hard Drive OEM 5YR MFR Warranty
In Stock 33883 $61.37
Silverstone Sugo SG06B Black SFF MINI-ITX MINI-DTX Case 1X5.25 Slim 1X2.5IN 1X3.5IN W/ Sfx 300W PSU
In Stock 40613 $110.51
Liteon Internal Slim 8X DVD Writer SATA
In Stock 45433 $41.68
OCZ Gold XTC PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL5-5-5-18 DDR2 240PIN Dual Channel Memory K *IR-$11*
In Stock 23482 $114.81
Sapphire Radeon HD 5770 850MHZ 1GB 4.8GHZ GDDR5 PCI-E 2XDVI HDMI Display Port Lite Retail Video Card
In Stock 45066 $177.61
YOUR TOTAL BEFORE TAX $824.04
They are all in Canadian dollars
*notes
- you can step up the cpu to a quad core(Q9550) for about $60
- you can step down the video card(gts 250) for about $40
Let me know if you got any questions/concerns, I would gladly help.
Antony
Why would you spend $100 on a mini case?
Why go with a duo when the mobo already supports a quad and can pick one up for about the same as a duo?
Why the cheap no name brand psu and mobo when telling him no name ram is bad?
Im willing to bet that the video card weather a 250,4870,4890,or a 5750 is going to be a tight fit in a mini case.
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kfcheung
Newbie
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12. November 2009 @ 02:00 |
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This setup can run games like Operation Flashpoint and Dragon Age on max
1) chopchop doesnt play crysis nor gta4 those high demanding games. Why did you mention them anyways?
2) + 3) chopchop doesnt need a quad core for multitasking, I don't see a quad core being necessary at this moment. By the time quad cores are optimized for games, parts will be all outdated. A duo core cpu is all he needs.
4) performance per watt is one of the major deciding factors when considering a video card because in Hong Kong, power bills are expensive. 5770 fits this situation nicely. Not only it is powerful to run the latest games, it uses very little power to run the games compared to other video cards.
5) WD 500GB Black do have a dual processor, allows the hard drive to take less time to open an application.
6) Brand names wont matter unless the system is being overclocked, which chop wont be doing. Also OCZ is a trusted brand with a lower price tag, however it's just not as popular as others.
Summary:
- small pc takes up less space
- use less power
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. November 2009 @ 02:31
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kfcheung
Newbie
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12. November 2009 @ 02:22 |
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Quote:
Why would you spend $100 on a mini case?
Why go with a duo when the mobo already supports a quad and can pick one up for about the same as a duo?
Why the cheap no name brand psu and mobo when telling him no name ram is bad?
Im willing to bet that the video card weather a 250,4870,4890,or a 5750 is going to be a tight fit in a mini case.
1) the mini itx case comes with a good quality and 80%+ certified power supply. So it's $110 for a case and power supply.
2) the motherboard is zotac brand. I dont see how Zotac being generic by all means. A new company doesnt make it generic.
3) the case will fit any video cards with 9 inch or less. GTS250/5770/5750 will all fit if that's what you concern.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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12. November 2009 @ 12:56 |
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Xplorer: My thoughts exactly
kfcheung: You're missing the point. Look at how much more powerful my spec is (triple the CPU power, 25% more graphics power, far superior motherboard, 50% more hard disk space, better quality and not crappy low-speed RAM that can't overclock a CPU) for pretty much the same cost.
Your system might be small, but that's all it has going for it, it's relatively low-end and has no future upgrade or performance potential. Not only is the system I listed vastly more powerful for whatever the OP may want to run in the future, it's also upgradeable as you like, since it uses all current-generation hardware, not the outdated 775 platform
Given that games are already optimised for quads, the stuff I listed is hardly outdated already.
Performance per-watt is nice, but you're using it at the expense of screwing over the guy in the future. If you want proper performance per watt, ditch the terrible inefficient PSU from the case, get a normal ATX system with a nice efficient PSU to save some watts there, and buy a Core i5, which is renowned for being a fabulously power-efficient CPU due to the lack of northbridge on the motherboard.
Corrected: OCZ was a trusted brand, until their quality fell off a cliff. Now they're not as popular because they're crap, quite frankly.
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kfcheung
Newbie
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12. November 2009 @ 14:22 |
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dude, dont try to flame me here. I was asked to provide some info.
let's stay in topic:
Quote:
I mainly do torrents, day to day word processing and basic tasks. I want something that won't bog down on me when I run a few more applications.
1) If chopchop feels a need for a quad core, Q9550 is essentially the same as i5. i5 is just a rebrand with a new name, new socket requirement packed with the useless turbo boost and hyperthreading features. In terms of performance in games, they are the same.
3) Overclocking a CPU doesnt overclock the RAM.
4) If chopchop feels the need for a bigger hard drive, he can just change it in the list. My list is just a reference anyways.
5) OCZ is a trusted brand with good quality RAM that are hand tested for strict quality standards.
6) The main purpose of moving the northbridge chipset to the cpu is saving the shipping cost, not saving the power. Btw, it saves like 10 watts of combining them but still end up drawing more power than Q9550.
7) Zotac mini-itx is really a new concept, and it might not get accepted by most people. Most just think, ugh it's small then it must be shitty and slow. However, this is not the case. Zotac overcome this obstacle by using high quality motherboard components. The downside is just the lack of expansion slots and extreme overclocking which are not needed for chopchop anyways.
8) Like I said, the power supply passed the efficiency test of being over 80%. I dont see how inefficient it is.
9) ATX form factor is better only when it comes to multiple expansion slots and high end gaming. However, Chopchop is not looking for those.
10) Chopchop doesnt upgrade parts whenever new parts come out. By the time he feels the need of upgrading, i5 will be outdated already. There's really no need of going i5 unless replacing the CPU frequently.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. November 2009 @ 14:37
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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12. November 2009 @ 15:53 |
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Not a flame (yet), I just disagree with your post, and think that in general the OP should really be told what the truths are regarding the option you've presented and what I've presented. Ultimately we can't force him to go either way, but I don't want him/her thinking that miniature systems are every bit the substitute for normal systems, they aren't. You pay a lot more to get the same for a miniature system.
1. Oh dear, do some reading. (For ref, the i5 is far superior in all respects - also, the i5 does not have hyperthreading)
3. (where's 2?) Oh dear, do some reading. (In short, yes it does for Core 2s, unless you change the memory multiplier)
4. A reference nonetheless, but the fact is I've managed a similar price point and been able to include a bigger one.
5. That's true of the past, but seriously, cheap OCZ RAM is cheap for a reason.
6. No, the chipset is moved into the CPU is for all sorts of architectural reasons, cost is only one of them. 10W saved is still 10W saved (it's actually closer to 20 at idle, 10 at load)
7. Zotac Mini-ITX forms the basis for my friend's PC system. It is incredibly useful, but the upshot of it is, it's still an nvidia chipset, and it's still a basic board. Good for what it is, but it should never substitute a proper motherboard for a full-on PC unless having a micro system is absolutely essential.
8. The 80Plus standard has different levels, there are pretty basic ones and pretty stringent ones. A case built-in PSU also has severe quality concerns.
9. ATX form factor is better when it comes to multiple expansion slots, of all kinds. Who knows what else he might decide to add to the system a little later down the line. Even a MicroATX board can handle one extra peripheral, with Mini-ITX he's screwed.
10. By the time he may want to upgrade, it'll be time for a new platform regardless, I agree. However, with an E8400 he'll want to upgrade in 2 years or less, I almost guarantee it. A Core i5 could potentially last 4 or 5.
Long story short, you like mini-ITX style systems, they're very cool, but they come at a substantial cost, and in trying to defend your argument, you've just shown me that you don't really know what you're talking about. Sorry.
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kfcheung
Newbie
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12. November 2009 @ 16:59 |
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1) i5 does or doesnt have hyperthreading just wont make any difference in gaming.
2) overclocking means running a frequency more than specified. If it doesnt then it doesnt.
3) more expensive and bigger doesnt mean it's better.
4) low production cost doesnt make product bad.
5) saving 10w on chipset still cannot beat the power saving of a mini-itx system with less than 300watts on full load.
6)a better chipset is needed only if chopchop wants to install 2 or more video cards in SLI/Crossfire mode. This will run fine for any video cards up to date.
7) It passed the bronze level just like many other power supplies, I dont get how bad is it. Only very few passed the gold level which could cost a bunch anyways.
8) chopchop doesnt need expansion slots to "do torrents, day to day word processing and basic tasks. I want something that won't bog down on me when I run a few more applications."
9) E8400/Q9550 is just a matter of choice. Q9550 would be better if running torrents and gaming at the same time.
Everyone is just displaying their designs, no need to target me and trying to take me down.
If getting flamed is the results of helping out a friend. Maybe I've made the wrong choice. And maybe that's why I never go on forums.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. November 2009 @ 17:10
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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12. November 2009 @ 18:12 |
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1. Yes it does
2. Overclocking for core 2s is done by upping the front side bus. Unless you own an extreme edition CPU, which the E8400 is not, then that's the only way you can do it. Upping the FSB ups the memory speed, unless you cut the multiplier, simple as that.3
3. Of course not, but in this case, the big system isn't more expensive, and is clearly better.
4. It does if low cost was achieved through cutting quality corners, which is what OCZ did.
5. Given that the i5 quad system I posted is around 300W full load as well, that's not much of a point. However, fact is, you have a low-end PC. Low-end PCs don't use much power. High-end PCs do.
6. Or more peripheral and I/O ports, better voltage regulation, etc. etc.
7. If you knew anything about the PSU market, you wouldn't trust a PSU that came free with a case, not even if it was from a good brand.
8. He already has a dual core, and moans about being bogged down. Giving him a slightly faster dual core isn't going to improve things much.
9. Q9550 would be better all round, i5 750 would be better still, and not really any more expensive.
I'm not trying to flame you, just pointing out that your advice to the OP in this thread is flawed. So many people come to forums, and if people disagree with what they think, just throw a fit and leave.
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Xplorer4
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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12. November 2009 @ 20:52 |
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Originally posted by kfcheung:
Everyone is just displaying their designs, no need to target me and trying to take me down.
If getting flamed is the results of helping out a friend. Maybe I've made the wrong choice. And maybe that's why I never go on forums.
Flamed = insulted. Where were you insulted?
Sam and I disagree from time to time, and were both still here..
Personally I dont see why your still arguing with Sam at this point. It seems your digging your build further in to the ground by doing so.
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chopchop3
Newbie
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12. November 2009 @ 21:53 |
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Wow I apologize for making this thread such a mess. kfcheung is personal friend and he tried to help, same as sammorris and others who contributed in this thread. I appreciate all the help I've got so far and I think I can take care of it from here :)
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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12. November 2009 @ 22:14 |
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No worries, I'm not offended by anything posted here, not did I intend that to be the case for anyone else.
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