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Onboard 8200 vs 7300gt?
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Senior Member
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19. September 2009 @ 18:48 |
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So, I'm in the process of upgrading my rig (It's long overdue), and I've moved to a Phenom II X4(If you don't like AMD, keep it to yourself, I'm not here for flamewars.)
The motherboard I got has an nForce 750a hybrid SLI chipset, with an 8200 built in.
I haven't upgraded my video card yet; so I'm still running off a 7300GT w/256m DDR2. I'm debating whether I should just use the onboard 8200 instead, since it would be DX10 compatible.
So, what I'm wondering is:
A.) Can I set up my 7300gt to work in hybrid SLI with the onboard (And video? (And hopefully have DX10 compatibility?)
B.) If I can't use my current video card for hybrid SLI, would it be better to just use the onboard video right now, instead of my 7300gt?
My rig so far:
Phenom II X4 @3.0ghz
2x2gb Crucial DDR3 1333, dual channel
Onboard 8200\PCIe 7300GT
Windows Vista 64
*Edit: I believe I have found something pertinent to this, but the resource is not always spot on for practical gaming applications. Tom's hardware shows a 7300gt being about five or six notches above an integrated 8200. But I'm not sure if the DX10 optimizations that become available with the 8 series would make up for performance.*
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best...ard,2404-7.html
"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. September 2009 @ 11:48
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Senior Member
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20. September 2009 @ 13:19 |
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Well; I ended up looking for the solution to my own answer, and about 12 hours later, it appears that despite gains for optimization with DX10, the 7300gt is still better than the 8200 onboard. Which is unfortunate.
I'll have to do a moderate upgrade on my graphics next payday.
Here are my findings, based on 3DMark 06, for anyone that has interest:
Discrete 7300GT w\256Mb DDR2
Windows 4.4
1673 3DMarks w\7300gt
8200IGP
Windows 4.4
1272 3DMarks w\8200 512mb DDR allocated, ram unganged
8200IGP
Windows 4.4
1239 3DMarks w\8200 512mb DDR allocated, ram ganged
Looks like the system will really need a newer video card in order to see better performance.
"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. September 2009 @ 13:21
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. September 2009 @ 08:08 |
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A 7300GT is better than 8200, but dear god, why such a poor graphics card with a decent processor? Surely you can afford at least a Radeon HD4650? That would destroy a 7300GT...
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Senior Member
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28. September 2009 @ 13:57 |
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LOL; because I'm doing the upgrade a few components at a time.
Sure, I could just buy a whole new rig all at once, but usually they throw in some not-so-hot motherboards or other components, which can make it harder to upgrade in the future.
Fortunately, the video card and PSU are next on the chopping block for my upgrade. I've done a LOT of reading, and I've decided on the GTX 260. I nearly opted for the GTS 250, but it wasn't a big price difference (Can get a GTX 260 for roughly $150), and I prefer using the latest NVidia chipset.
It's been um... Interesting, using a 7300GT with all the other components being so nice. Eventually, I'll probably be ramping up to dual 260's. I know that a single nicer card would be less, but it's easier for me to invest smaller amounts at a time, so I'll be going with SLI. Then again, I'll also be going with a total of 8gb ram, but I do a lot of video editing and rendering, so it'll be useful for me. ^_^
"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim |
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28. September 2009 @ 14:12 |
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Then why a GTX260? A new generation of nvidia stuff will come out in a month to 6 weeks' time. The GTX260 is getting on a bit now, and is generally a worse deal than the HD4870 the vast majority of the time. Also you don't mean chipset, you mean graphics card. nvidia chipsets power motherboards and are absolute dirge.
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Senior Member
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28. September 2009 @ 15:07 |
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Hmm... I seem to be using the wrong word there; I'm referring to the architecture. The GTS 250 is really three Nvidia generations old.
I'm going to be blunt here: I don't do ATI. I don't want to get into it, I'm not here for flame wars, I just don't want to use their cards.
Could I wait for the 300 series? Sure, I could. But I've been doing a lot of looking, and it looks like that may be pushed back to next year. And on top of that; there's the knowledge that at launch the mid range cards in that line will be way out of my price range. And besides, I hate to say it, but I just don't have the budgeting restraint to save longer for the super-high end cards. :( Not to mention, the 300 series may not actually end up using DX11, we're not sure just yet.
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28. September 2009 @ 15:14 |
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I try not to get wound up when people are so closed-minded they ignore anything but their favourite brand. After all, it's their loss when they pay over the odds for something that isn't worth what they paid for it, which sadly, is true of most of nvidia's midrange at the moment.
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Senior Member
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28. September 2009 @ 15:23 |
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To each their own. Some folks just choose a brand, and follow it religiously; others have bad experiences that leave a sour taste in their mouth. Unfortunately, I was the ladder.
I'm sure most of their products are fantastic, but I was burned by a bad product, and worse customer service. So for 'personal' reasons, I just don't want to give them my money. But like I said, I'm sure they make products which are probably wonderful. I know they're usually ahead on supporting new DX releases. ^_^
"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim |
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28. September 2009 @ 15:49 |
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To be honest, ATI have had bad products, it's that simple, the HD2000 and HD3000 series were pretty flawed, and partner companies like Gecube's X1950XT for AGP don't help matters, as they aren't official ATI products, but ATI take the rap for when they're almost always rubbish.
nvidia are much the same, the Geforce FX series was dire, and there have been some dodgy 8 series products from a reliability standpoint as well. What was true then may not be true now.
Where there's plenty of exacting competition like with TVs or Hifis or whatever, there's no harm in avoiding a brand for life if you had a bad experience, because you're not losing out, rival brands will accomplish the exact same thing. GPUs and CPUs are different, however, as there is only one opposition component and there are usually dramatic differences between them. In these two markets, people being closed-minded and refusing to buy the other brand because they bought a bad one a few years back is always counter-productive. If it were 2007 or the first half of 2008, you would buy an nvidia card, that's just what you did. Since Autumn 2008, really, if you want value for money in most cases you buy an ATI, that's the current season of it. Who knows, when the GT300 arrives, the balance may return the other way, but what if it doesn't?
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Senior Member
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28. September 2009 @ 16:13 |
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Honestly, the bottom line for me is that I check the individual product that I buy. Each company has their strengths and their weaknesses. Right now, I've seen some debates on the matter with what are probably fanboys on each side, whom kept things pretty civil.
After hearing folks on each side really present their case back and forth, I gained added confidence in my planned purchase.
And besides, if I look up the stats on something, and know what kind of performance I'm buying then I'm not "losing out" on anything. I'm selecting a product, reading up on the stats, and making an educated purchase. Just because I chose not to purchase another brand doesn't mean I 'missed out'. It's like saying that someone 'missed out' because they bought a 360 instead of a PS3, or a Mac instead of a PC. If someone simply doesn't want a specific product, or a brand, then they aren't 'missing out' on anything. They're getting exactly what they were looking for. Determining that folks are missing out because they don't go with your personal favorite seems rather short sighted to me.
I've considered my options for the moment, and maybe in the future ATI (Or others producing their cards) will get my business again, but it's just not happening at this time. Their product sounds promising, and if I continue to hear positive things about it, it seems likely I could change my opinion of them. For now though, the taste just hasn't left my mouth, and I'm not yet convinced that it's time to throw down some hard earned cash on them.
I can say this much though: In a year, when both companies have their DX11 cards available, you can bet I'll be taking a long hard look at each of their products, to see who supports all the optimizations, and gets the best in-game scores for the buck. And honestly, if ATI beats nvidia at that point in time, it seems likely that I'll make the switch. So perhaps for now I'll stick to the single 260, until I'm ready to make a more conclusive, long term decision.
****EDIT
Sure enough, looks like things have changed in the last few weeks. With the ATI 5 series being introduced, the high end 4's seem to be down a bit, making them much more affordable in competition with NVidia's product.
"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. September 2009 @ 16:36
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Senior Member
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28. September 2009 @ 16:23 |
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Hmm... Interestingly enough, I just did a read up on Tom's Hardware.
It would appear that the 1gb 4870 is actualy VERY powerful for the buck right now. With it coming in at a $144 price tag, and having 800 stream procesors... That's a pretty hard deal to pass up.
I'm actually going to have to give that some serious consideration. Errr.... How much of a difference does the 'bit' make on these things? The radeon seems to be beating the GTX 260 in every category but that, and I can't figure how much practical difference that will make in actual game performance.
***EDIT
If only those 5870's were less right now, lol.
"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. September 2009 @ 16:34
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28. September 2009 @ 17:41 |
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The 'bit' makes no difference. What you see from the benches is what you get, and in my mind the HD4870 1GB is the better buy compared to the GTX260.
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Senior Member
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28. September 2009 @ 18:05 |
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It's not a HUGE margin, but I can honestly say that looking at the 4870 vs the 260, the real time results seem to be better for slightly less, this thing even comes in close to the 280, which is actually pretty good. Looks like the recent cuts for the 5 series' release have done a world of good.
With the 5 series being fully DX11 compatible, I *really* want to jump on that (I've got Windows 7 upgrade on pre-order, and am eager to get the full experience). But, it's kind of a toss up for whether I can actually really wait that long. If I can wait, a single 5870 would be wonderful, and I could probably crossfire a second one when the price decreases.
The only real concern I have with a 4870, is that if I want to crossfire it a year from now, it looks like that might be a bit difficult to manage, since they plan to phase them out by first quarter next year.
One issue I had with my last upgrade was that my 7300gt started struggling with newer games about a month after I had bought everything, and I was stuck with a system that couldn't run certain games at all roughly a year later. Seeing how important a video card really is, as far as gaming performance goes, I really want to make sure that I get this component right this time.
So, I'm almost certainly going with an ATI card now, since the price for performance ratio seems to have improved. I guess the question that I'm kind of sitting on is whether I have the self-restraint to buckle down and snag myself a 5870 for the extra buck. If I can do it, I think I'll be happier with that in the longrun. It outperforms dual 4870s, and allows me to expand by doing that card crossfire down the road, should I need more performance.
It's really more than I was planning on spending, which delays things a bit longer... But it seems like it may be a wiser investment.
Thoughts?
"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim |
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28. September 2009 @ 18:49 |
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Just bear in mind the first DX11 title is DiRT 2, which won't be out until christmas. The DX11 games will slowly trickle in after that.
Never buy a graphics card with the intention of adding another later - usually it's much better to buy one single new card than add another - case in point, the HD5870 generally equals, often beats a pair of 4870s. Granted, right now it's expensive, but not so compared to if you had to buy a new PSU and motherboard to allow two graphics cards' use. You'd save in the long run on energy bills too.
The reason your 7300GT became unsuitable so soon is because it's a budget card not designed to play games even at all, let alone top titles.
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28. September 2009 @ 18:52 |
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Yeah, that's what steered me away from a 9600GSO and a GTS 250 initially.
So, if I'm understanding you correctly:
-The 4870 is a good buy, especially at the low cost
-However, if I'm planning to eventually dual card the 4870 to get better performance, I'd be better off overall just saving a little longer and getting the 5870.
I think this is what you're saying, but I want to make sure I'm understanding right. ^_^
"Its not stupid, its advanced!" - The Almighty Tallest, Invader Zim |
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28. September 2009 @ 19:52 |
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That's exactly what he's saying, and i think i'd be inclined to agree :)
But i presume your prior experience is just with the lower end cards - even a HD4870 would offer a HUGE increase in performance:
In the PC i'm writing this on there's a 8400GS, so a little bit better than what you currently have, and i have to say you literally can't compare the two - i don't even bother playing games on this thing; i installed GRiD once and it barely ran playably at lowest detail settings at the lowest resolution the game will go with no AA at all. My other PC that has a GTX260 (216sp version, so comparable to the HD4870 1GB) can run it at maximum settings at maximum resolution with 8xQCSAA - they're truly a world apart.
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB |
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28. September 2009 @ 20:36 |
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Essentially, buy a 4870 now, then later on when you're more affluent, sell it and buy a 5870 - or, if nvidia's DX11 card happens to be better, get that instead.
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Senior Member
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28. September 2009 @ 20:55 |
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Yeah. I hate to wait another couple weeks so that I can snag that 5870 without budgeting issues... But it sounds like that may be the wise way to go here.
Blegh. *Sad Panda*
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