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Video card advice please
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Jinkazuya
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27. November 2010 @ 10:08 |
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Well...Having read all the info from all forums and benchmarks, I am convinced that MSI GTX 470 (Fermi) does indeed perform the same or even better than ATI radeon 5870. But the question is if MSI N470GTX Twin Frozr II GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) is really a good buy because it is so expensive and I would like to have two cards and I really cannot decide which one is better.
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. November 2010 @ 00:11 |
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It doesn't. The GTX470 is about the same as an HD5850. The clue is trying to find the sites that benchmark stuff properly and give you all the facts. The GTX470 comes up way short here.
You're a little out of touch as the Radeon HD6850 and HD6870 have come out and obsoleted the HD5850 and HD5870 of old, and they're much better cards. The HD6870 can take on the GTX470 and win [it's marginally faster], it uses only 150W not the 225W that the GTX470 uses, and it's similarly priced.
If you're going to be using two cards, the decision only gets stronger in favour of the HD6870, or even the HD6850, as for the first time ever, with the HD6800 series, Crossfire actually scales better than SLI does.
Typically in terms of raw performance numbers, for current and upcoming cards, it breaks down something like this:
HD6850: 95% performance, $190, 380W PSU recommended [250W spare]
HD5850: 100% performance, $230, 550W PSU recommended [400W spare]
GTX560: 105% performance, $270, 550W PSU recommended [340W spare]
GTX470: 103% performance, $235, 550W PSU recommended [320W spare]
HD6870: 110% performance, $275, 550W PSU recommended [400W spare]
HD5870: 116% performance, $360, 550W PSU recommended [360W spare]
GTX480: 123% performance, $400, 550W PSU recommended [260W spare]
GTX570: 125% performance, $400, 550W PSU recommended [330W spare]
HD6950: 140% performance, $350, 550W PSU recommended [350W spare]
GTX580: 150% performance, $500, 550W PSU recommended [270W spare]
HD6970: 165% performance, $450, 550W PSU recommended [320W spare]
2x5850: 175% performance, $460, 650W PSU recommended [350W spare]
2x6850: 185% performance, $380, 550W PSU recommended [290W spare]
2xG470: 190% performance, $470, 750W PSU recommended [300W spare]
2xG560: 195% performance, $540, 650W PSU recommended [320W spare]
2x5870: 200% performance, $720, 650W PSU recommended [270W spare]
2x6870: 215% performance, $550, 650W PSU recommended [350W spare]
HD6990: 225% performance, $600, 550W PSU recommended [250W spare]
GTX595: 225% performance, $700, 750W PSU recommended [360W spare]
2xG480: 225% performance, $800, 850W PSU recommended [270W spare]
2xG570: 230% performance, $800, 750W PSU recommended [310W spare]
2x6950: 270% performance, $700, 650W PSU recommended [260W spare]
2xG580: 275% performance,$1000, 850W PSU recommended [290W spare]
2x6970: 320% performance, $900, 750W PSU recommended [300W spare]
2x6990: 350% performance,$1200, 850W PSU recommended [260W spare]
2xG595: 370% performance,$1400,1200W PSU recommended [420W spare]
All of the cards on here that have yet to be released are speculative figures, but from various industry hints and tip-offs etc, they should be fairly close to the truth, with the exception of the HD6990 and GTX595 about which less is known.
Also bear in mind the figures taken for dual and quad graphics here are based on typical results. These results will not be as good in games that do not yet have driver profiles or are different in some other way as to reduce multi-GPU performance.
HD6950/6970 due for release: December 2010. Specifications largely accurate, pricing may vary slightly
HD6990 due for release: January/February 2011. Specifications still unknown, but probably accurate due to past trends.
GTX560/570 due for release: December 2010-January 2011. Specifications largely known already, pricing will certainly vary.
GTX595 due for release: March/April 2011. Specifications known in early base form. Pricing unknown, wild guess.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. November 2010 @ 01:01
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Jinkazuya
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28. November 2010 @ 15:41 |
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I know 6800 series are scale better but I do not know which brand is better brand for crossfire. Some of the people said that certain 5800 series cannot be used for crossfire and they will crash. According to some of the newegg rating.
Furthermore, some of the 6800 cards cannot really be overclockable. Even if they could, minimum speed will be gained and not much. But Nvidia 470 could be overclocked like crazy esp with afterburner. I was gonna buy the MSI 470, but I would like to buy 6800 series as well. So I don't know.
Besides, 6800 is a bit expensive.
my budget is around $470 for two video cards.
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. November 2010 @ 16:03 |
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Then they're retarded. HD5800s can be used in Crossfire fine. HD6800s in crossfire do perform better by comparison though.
The HD6870 isn't very overclockable but the HD6850 certainly is. However, overclocking graphics cards is largely pointless as it makes them run much hotter, live a lot shorter (severely so in nvidia's case) and gives an almost invisible difference in performance.
If you have $470 to spend on two cards, spend the $380 on two HD6850s.
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Jinkazuya
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30. November 2010 @ 23:16 |
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Hi Sam! Is it ok for you to get me a board that supports crossfire of sapphire 6870? Because gigabyte boards 1) might have problems with crossfire 2) people are complaining most of gigabyte boards do not recognize 12gb of ram.
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. November 2010 @ 23:19 |
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Modern Gigabyte boards don't have any issues with crossfire that I've seen. I have used three Gigabyte crossfire-capable boards. One of them had issues with crossfire due to its older chipset, but the other two have been perfect, even for quad crossfire. I am using one of these Gigabyte boards right now. Not only that, I know several people who are using Gigabyte AMD boards and use crossfire without any problems.
I couldn't say about 12GB of RAM, but I see no problems there either. The clue is using the correct RAM. Stick with Corsair and you're pretty safe.
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Jinkazuya
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1. December 2010 @ 19:07 |
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I have bought everything and ready to build a new one except for the board. So would you please link me to the board you would recommend.
I trust you Sam. Because there are a lot of Gigabyte board out there ranging from series 3,5,7 and 9. The one I am currently using is the 3 series - X58A-UD3R.
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. December 2010 @ 20:21 |
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What are the rest of the components you have bought? Are they in a different thread?
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Jinkazuya
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1. December 2010 @ 22:36 |
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. December 2010 @ 22:43 |
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I hope the PSU was cheap, because that's ridiculous overkill for your system.
The case is very expensive for what it is. Such ases are pretty cheaply made, you'd be better off with something like an NZXT Tempest Evo or a Coolermaster HAF 922 for that sort of price.
With the i7 950, go with an X58A-UD3R, can't really go wrong with that.
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Jinkazuya
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2. December 2010 @ 19:23 |
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I already bought the case and now be waiting for rebate.
Anyway, what do ya think of the MSI board?
Because it seems to me that the MSI boards, those over $200 a little bit do have more functionalities and advanced features than do some of the gigabyte boards.
Do ya think if it is ok to go for MSI boards?
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. December 2010 @ 20:05 |
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There's no difference in the functionality at all, trust me. MSI boards are fine though, and for X58 if you can get one with double slot spacing for PCI express, it will help crossfire graphics cards run much cooler.
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Jinkazuya
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2. December 2010 @ 21:45 |
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that's the problem Sam. you know what! Because the darn ATI graphic card is really big. And only slot1 and slot2 of the board you recommended does run 16x PCIe. So not sure which one is slot2...I know slot1 is the very top slot as I am now using this board for my PC.
So the problem is if the board will fit two cards within slot1 and slot2. Have ya ever tried running crossfire with X58A-UD3R?
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AfterDawn Addict
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3. December 2010 @ 05:05 |
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I don't own an X58 system as they're not really necessary for my needs as a gamer.
It is disappointing that Gigabyte have not produced an X58 board with decent slot spacing.
Two cards fit fine in crossfire in an X58A-UD3R, as remember, 16x_1 and 16x_2 are the first and third slots on the board, so there is enough space. However, with just a single slot between, the two coolers will be cramped:
When you ideally want a gap between like this:
It's not particularly a problem, but it does mean the cards will run warmer, and therefore louder.
However, I will point out that running an HD6870 in an 8x slot instead of a 16x slot has no noticeable performance difference at all, it's typically about 1%.
Therefore, if you have a case that allows a dual-slot card to be placed in the very bottom slot of the board, you could stick the second card in there and not suffer any issues.
However, the MSI X58A-GD45 has double slot spacing between its two 16x slots, which is exactly what you want.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. December 2010 @ 05:16
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Jinkazuya
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3. December 2010 @ 19:15 |
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what about ASUS boards SAM? Because I wanna find the one that is easy to overclock. As for MSI, I have not even seen a guide around on the internet. Lots of people claim that they could overclock the ASUS like crazy.
The MSI you recommend doesn't have any reviews.
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m4r0v3r
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1 product review
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3. December 2010 @ 19:40 |
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whatever you decide to do, my tip is buy a good power supply, a good reliable power supply, I remember once my power supply did something on me, not sure what it's called but it killed my system, could of been a power surge who knows.
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. December 2010 @ 05:03 |
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Asus boards are terrible. They last a matter of months before they break, leaving you having to replace them over and over again. They just aren't designed, or built properly.
Why do you need reviews on newegg to buy something? The vast majority of people on newegg reviews are idiots, giving 1* reviews because they didn't realise the components they bought weren't compatible, and stuff like this.
m4r: Cheap PSUs routinely destroy systems, and I do mean routinely. It happens so often it's not even funny. Too many people think cheap PSUs are adequate for their uses. They never are. Ever.
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Jinkazuya
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4. December 2010 @ 09:46 |
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I trust Sam. He is a experienced guy. hehehe...
BTW, SAM! I hope you could answer a few of my questions.
Do ya think the MSI board you recommended works better or the x58 gigabyte board you had recommended works better? I know you have owned several gigabyte boards and they all work well for ya.
I have also read some feedbacks about those who use MSI. But some of them claimed that the MSI does not have the adequate heatsink for the northbridge. And it will be really hot. Another guy fried his MSI board due to pumping up the voltage of the ucore to 1.48 or 1.57...
Besides, how come the x58-UR3 of the gigabyte board costs only $209 on newegg but the x58-UD5 costs $60 dollars more? But is the difference? And the advantages of the UD5 over the UR3?
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. December 2010 @ 10:00 |
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There isn't really a 'works better' about it. Both the brands will work fine. Many people seem to think there's some sort of brand hierachy for stability, performance etc. regarding motherboards and there really isn't. If they work, they work. Ultimately if you push any board too far when overclocking, you will break it, and there's no exception to that rule. The size of heatsink you get depends not on the brand you buy from, but how much you spend. The most basic Gigabyte X58 board, the USB3, has a relatively small heatsink, but those found on the X58-Extreme and UD9 are enormous. Likewise for the MSI boards, the basic X58M has a small heatsink, but the Eclipse Plus and Big Bang X-Power have large heatsinks. Upping the voltage to something is always an indicator of considerable overclocking, and it always carries risks, especially when overvolting components like the northbridge.
The UD5 board costs more than the UD3R as it has a larger cooler and an extra network port.
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Jinkazuya
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4. December 2010 @ 12:07 |
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So if you were to buy one of them, would you go for Big Bang X-power MSI or Gigabyte X58-UD5? Because both of them cost about the same. Besides, I think they were made in 2010 right?
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. December 2010 @ 12:44 |
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Depends if you were going for a huge overclock or not. If you weren't, I'd probably still buy the smaller MSI board I linked earlier.
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Jinkazuya
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4. December 2010 @ 17:13 |
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My goal is to reach 3.8 to 4.0 and beyond that is not what my goal is. So if I go for the gigabyte board, there shouldn't be any problem with crossfire right? The only thing I am afraid of is crossfire right now.
MSI is a little bit harder to overclock according to most of the people, who are having difficulty overclocking.
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. December 2010 @ 17:29 |
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I'd expect no problems with the Gigabyte board, and I can guarantee they overclock well. I have no experience with MSI boards as far as overclocking goes, but both brands should reach 3.8Ghz with no problems at all. 4.2Ghz and beyond is where the difficulties begin. Be advised you need a beefy cooler to go beyond 3.8Ghz on an i7.
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Jinkazuya
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4. December 2010 @ 19:09 |
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I have seen your latest blog that you could overclock your i 570 to 4.2, which is awesome. Well...I think ya might already know this, I got my aftermarket cooler from newegg, which is the cosair cooler and that has a lot of positive feedbacks.
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. December 2010 @ 20:51 |
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Yes, but I will point out the i5 750 is only a 95W CPU. The i7 950 is a 130W CPU, so puts out considerably more heat.
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