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DVDA background hissing
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poetprose
Junior Member
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9. March 2005 @ 09:31 |
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I just picked up my first DVD audio disk "Santana" , but a couple of the songs on it had hissing coming out of the speakers, the rest of the songs didn't
Does anyone know if this is common with DVDA's?
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sdifox
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22. March 2005 @ 10:31 |
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Which tracks? I'll check it on mine. Chances are it's a source issue. GIGO.
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poetprose
Junior Member
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23. March 2005 @ 01:39 |
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The very begining of the first song has really bad hissing, but then midway into the song it stops.. also I believe the one with Clapton on guitar , it is either the 10th or 11 track
I went back to the store where I bought the disk told the sales guy about it, so he tried his copy of "Santana" supernatural in a different DVDA/SACD player , and it sounded even worse, .. he said it is the mix
also did you notice you dont get much voice coming out of your centre front speaker?
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sdifox
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23. March 2005 @ 05:41 |
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I actually can't tell which speaker the vocal is coming from. Unless I get up and go to each speaker and listen in front of it, I can't tell the source. I think you need to fine tune your speaker levels or play with room acoustics.
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poetprose
Junior Member
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23. March 2005 @ 07:25 |
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you should be able to tell , shouldn't you? at least with a DVDA i think you should
but it is true that our centre front is a little bossy, even still you can hear the vocals /and or instruments coming out of the different speakers at all time
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sdifox
Member
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23. March 2005 @ 14:47 |
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I can tell it comes from the centre stage, but I cannot tell you if it comes from the centre speaker. You shouldn't be able to either since localization of the speakers means you have a level imbalance.
You should be able to locate the vocal or instrument at a direction in space (or maybe even point in space), but not to a speaker.
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sdifox
Member
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23. March 2005 @ 16:35 |
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I just checked Santana "Supernatural" and there is a bit of hiss. Production is to blame for this since it is a recent album which means the master tapes should be in prestine condition.
As to the vocal not being on centre, that is particular to this since Santana is a guitarist and he is centre stage while the vocals are supplied by guest performers so...
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poetprose
Junior Member
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24. March 2005 @ 01:09 |
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Santana Supernatural is the only DVDA I have purchased and I hope the other DVDA's dont hiss like that, annoying...
Also I think it is only a couple of the songs of that Santana mix where the vocals are not good in the centre front
although I did buy Pink Floyd Dark side of the moon hybrid SACD and it sounded pretty good...
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sdifox
Member
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24. March 2005 @ 11:53 |
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It always comes down to production/encoding. If you have a good sound engineer to do the work and your source is prestine and the production is not too cheap, then you'll get good sound.
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Senior Member
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6. January 2006 @ 08:12 |
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Quote:
I can tell it comes from the centre stage, but I cannot tell you if it comes from the centre speaker. You shouldn't be able to either since localization of the speakers means you have a level imbalance.
You should be able to locate the vocal or instrument at a direction in space (or maybe even point in space), but not to a speaker.
Twaddle. A well mixed surround album should be perfectly capable of letting you know exactly what speaker an instrument is coming from, unless it is across all 3 front speakers in which case you can't tell.
Quote:
It always comes down to production/encoding. If you have a good sound engineer to do the work and your source is prestine and the production is not too cheap, then you'll get good sound.
Wise words well spoken. A good engineer can work miracles, but a bad one can ruin anything.
There are some superb DVD-A out there, and some of these will have hiss coming from them too - there is a Diana Krall album where you can clearly hear the actual tape hiss. This is how it was meant to be on this one though.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. January 2006 @ 08:13
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jjolson
Junior Member
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16. January 2006 @ 08:41 |
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How would a "well mixed surround album" disclose if a sound coming from Centre Stage emanates from the centre speaker or equally from the front left and right speakers? In a perfectly setup 4.0 or 4.1 system you won't miss a centre speaker if you are sitting in the sweetspot, the centre speaker helps for non-perfect systems, non-sweetspot placement of listeners and movie dialogue clarity, if you don't have speakers that effortlessly handle a large amount of sound information simultaneously.
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Senior Member
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16. January 2006 @ 09:21 |
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Simple.
With decent speakers that can accurately handle the information, a true centre channel is very simple to differentiate between a phantom centre from L/R. It's a heck of a lot more solid.
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jjolson
Junior Member
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16. January 2006 @ 11:09 |
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The funny thing here is that we more or less agree... :)
I asked because my audiophile friends argue that when you can differentiate between a centre speaker and a phantom speaker, your system setup is flawed, speaker matching is bad or your equipment just isn't good enough.
I even listen to stereo CD's using the centre speaker (and all other speakers) using the Meridian Trifield option, which is a real-time Ambisonics-type matrixing.
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Senior Member
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16. January 2006 @ 11:16 |
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Some of these audiophiles are great value for money - never a dull moment!
I still laugh every time I hear the argument that 5.1 is pointless as we only have 2 ears!!!
And as you are doubtless well, well aware, listen to the Doors DVD-A of LA Woman.
The vocal there is right down the centre, and it is easily spotted.
Ditto the SACD of Bowie's Reality.
And many, many more.
I have to admit that Ambisonics has totally underwhelmed me. I just found that it was like big stereo.
When you start running stereo material through some of the Trifield, Farina & Gerzon stuff though, you can get a very convincing LCR spread. The Gerzonic equations in particular are very good, as it's a genuine 3 channel split, not preserving L/R with a bit of (L+R) (HPF/LPF) to try & isolate a vocal.
The Farina stuff can be great too. It all depends on the source. If you run Q-Sound encoded CD through an old Fosgate Tate II SQ decoder, it comes out in very convincing Quad.
There is a lot of fun to be had with this - and where DVD-A scores heavily over SACD - and not only in terms of quality - is that it's available to the hobbyist for only $35 these days.
(PS - My system is very nice, thanks. And well set up. I'm a studio mixer, and mix in 5.1 and author DVD-A for a living. I'm very, very lucky!)
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jjolson
Junior Member
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16. January 2006 @ 13:27 |
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I guess you mean the Cirlinca program? I was a beta-tester for them for a while, but they seemed more geared towards "Joe Sixpack" then. They added a couple of useful features after that, and $35 is a very reasonable price.
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sdifox
Member
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16. January 2006 @ 13:28 |
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I am confused. Are these new posts or just the old posts revived? I thought Wilkes left? And if it's new, I am happy. When I said I can't tell which speaker the sound comes from, I mean I know it's stage left, I can make a safe bet it comes fomr the left speaker, but I cannot be sure unless I stnad in front of the speaker, that is what a balanced system is supposed to work. For you wilkes, you are on near field system, so you can pinpoint.
Optoma HD6800, 92" Greyhawk II
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Technic 60+1 CD Changer
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jjolson
Junior Member
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17. January 2006 @ 00:37 |
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New posts - Wilkes is back :)
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sdifox
Member
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20. January 2006 @ 19:28 |
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Cue Chorus from Beethoven #9
Optoma HD6800, 92" Greyhawk II
Opteron 165 HTPC
Marantz AV-9000
Outlaw 750
Def Tech BP-2000TL, C/L/R2000, BP-10B
Panasonic RP-82S
JVC MD recorder /CD changer
Technic 60+1 CD Changer
1150+ DVD
54+ DVD-A
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Senior Member
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21. January 2006 @ 07:03 |
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Quote:
I am confused. Are these new posts or just the old posts revived? I thought Wilkes left? And if it's new, I am happy. When I said I can't tell which speaker the sound comes from, I mean I know it's stage left, I can make a safe bet it comes fomr the left speaker, but I cannot be sure unless I stnad in front of the speaker, that is what a balanced system is supposed to work. For you wilkes, you are on near field system, so you can pinpoint.
New Posts.
Also, I seriously think that once you get used to the way it all sounds, then you should be easuily able to tell if, say, a vocal is coming from the centre channel, or both L/R using a phantom centre.
It really does sound completely different to me.
Example for you.
Grab a DVD-A copy of the Doors' LA Woman, and then grab a DTS-CD of the original Quad version.
The DVD-A is straight down the centre channel.
The Quad is all around you in all 4 channels. Even if you unplug or mute the rears, you can easily tell the difference here.
And jjolson, I was indeed referring to the Cirlinca application.
Don't see how home creators can really go wrong for $35.
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sdifox
Member
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22. January 2006 @ 19:02 |
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Quote:
New Posts.
Also, I seriously think that once you get used to the way it all sounds, then you should be easuily able to tell if, say, a vocal is coming from the centre channel, or both L/R using a phantom centre.
It really does sound completely different to me.
Example for you.
Grab a DVD-A copy of the Doors' LA Woman, and then grab a DTS-CD of the original Quad version.
The DVD-A is straight down the centre channel.
The Quad is all around you in all 4 channels. Even if you unplug or mute the rears, you can easily tell the difference here.
Perhaps I should mention I have bi-poles, which are by nature less accurate than monopoles so imaging is a little bit fuzzier. I often listen to stereo CD playback and I can tell you who messed up the micking (as in main concert player is off centre). I often have to check the pre/pro to make sure I am indeed listening in stereo.
Optoma HD6800, 92" Greyhawk II
Opteron 165 HTPC
Marantz AV-9000
Outlaw 750
Def Tech BP-2000TL, C/L/R2000, BP-10B
Panasonic RP-82S
JVC MD recorder /CD changer
Technic 60+1 CD Changer
1150+ DVD
54+ DVD-A
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Senior Member
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23. January 2006 @ 02:19 |
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Why should this be a mistake?
I often place a lead instrument slightly off centre - it is a perfectly valid way to mix.
It also saves "room" in the mix to put the basic rhythm components down the middle.
Stereo is always a compromise. Whatever you do, it's un natural sounding, as you have to use EQ and reverb to simulate the placement and create the illusion of depth. It's exactly why I prefer mixing in Multichannel, as you use far less EQ (not so much stuff all fighting for the same space) and far less reverb (don't need to create the illusion of depth).
All I was saying, and I stand by this, is that with a well mixed 5.1 track using a true centre channel as opposed to a phantom one, is that it is EASY to tell the difference between a straight centre feed and a phantom one fed by L/R panned to the centre.
If in any doubt, track down those examples I gave earlier and listen to what is going on.
A centre pan still has sound coming from both L & R speakers, but a true centre does not. Move even slightly off centre, and you can spot it right off.
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