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Finally started using Rebuilder/CCE was it worth it?
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PacMan777
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2. April 2007 @ 16:50 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by The_Fiend:
Ok, let me rephrase the question, seems you might have misinterpreted *and possibly mistaken me for someone who knows little about computers* :
I am fully aware of how RAID works, i am already running a RAID0 data server *two sets of RAID0, one serving as backup*, i'm wondering why you would say it would be more efficient,
because from my understanding, the SATA II drives i use already enable me to get top performance out of the system in their normal state.

Maybe our only problem is the terminology. A single RAID 0 array is striping with no backup. You said you have a RAID0 backing up a RAID 0. That sounds like RAID 1+0 or 0+1. That's a RAID 0 with another RAID 0 for backup. If you check around, 2 drives in a RAID 0 configuration handle data faster than a single drive. If you use 10,000 RPM drives, that's even better.

As for 2GB's of RAM being enough, you'd be surprised at the amounts of software i use all at once, if i tell you i use 3 screens to multi task, would that clarify matters a bit ;-) ?

What does your taskmanager show about the RAM usage?




This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. April 2007 @ 16:51

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The_Fiend
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2. April 2007 @ 17:09 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Indeed, different terminology seems to be the issue, i tend to overexplain things the wrong way it seems.
And indeed, after a quick google i realised that this might indeed speed things up even more.

As for RAM usage, right now i'm at about 1700 MB usage *fluctuates a bit, as i'm using Gordian Knot ATM*, i'd estimate in "normal" daily use i use about 1500 MB's *i should mention at this point i also use a lot of widgets, and some other things to make things look nicer than they are*

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PacMan777
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2. April 2007 @ 23:04 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by The_Fiend:
Indeed, different terminology seems to be the issue, i tend to overexplain things the wrong way it seems.
And indeed, after a quick google i realised that this might indeed speed things up even more.

As for RAM usage, right now i'm at about 1700 MB usage *fluctuates a bit, as i'm using Gordian Knot ATM*, i'd estimate in "normal" daily use i use about 1500 MB's *i should mention at this point i also use a lot of widgets, and some other things to make things look nicer than they are*
Looks like you answered your own questions.


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3. April 2007 @ 08:06 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Look what I've gone and started! lol


PacMan777
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3. April 2007 @ 11:01 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
It's an old discussion. Had you used the search function and done some reading, you could have read it elsewhere. Some people don't pay attention to things like mosquito noise, pixelation, and loss of clarity, others do.


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3. April 2007 @ 15:29 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by PacMan777:
It's an old discussion. Had you used the search function and done some reading, you could have read it elsewhere. Some people don't pay attention to things like mosquito noise, pixelation, and loss of clarity, others do.

Well said. I can also add from personal experience that the more time you spend with your face 2 feet away from a computer monitor looking for differences between encodes, the more you'll notice imperfections that you wouldn't have before. If you don't want to be a slave to the best possible quality you can get (like me) don't do it.

Rich Fiscus
@Vurbal on Twitter
AfterDawn Staff Writer

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2007 @ 15:29

The_Fiend
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3. April 2007 @ 17:17 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Ah, i guess i did answer my own question in a way...
D@mn i'm good :-)

@Vurbal : but isn't that part of the fun of this, being able to tell subtle differences between encodes, just so you can brag to your friends that your choice of software is "the best" ? ;-)

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3. April 2007 @ 18:37 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by The_Fiend:
@Vurbal : but isn't that part of the fun of this, being able to tell subtle differences between encodes, just so you can brag to your friends that your choice of software is "the best" ? ;-)

Absolutely! But a lot of people don't suffer from our particular sickness and I don't encourage it unless you have a little money to spend and very little life to get in the way. Fortunately (I think) I seem to match that profile pretty well :D

Rich Fiscus
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4. April 2007 @ 07:30 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Mort81:
tj,
I can encode an average size movie with the extras (no previews, adverts, or warning screens), around 6.5gb's in about 40 minutes.

...

I've encoded many folders requiring almost 50% compression and the quality was unbelievable. Almost indistinguishable from the original on my 52" HDTV.


which passes did you use for these? thats damn nice encoding time though :)

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4. April 2007 @ 09:10 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
mord,

for folders under 6.8gb I use 2 passes. for folders 6.8gb+ I use 3 passes.

Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435
PacMan777
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4. April 2007 @ 12:54 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I'm the proverbial couch potatoe. I hate to move to make the setting change, so I leave it at 3 for everything. Actually it's a comfort thing. ;) If there is additional improvement it would probably be for heavier compression. Since it's no race and I'm not sure when that extra pass might help, I leave the setting at 3.


maxxjulie
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4. April 2007 @ 20:06 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
There is no program that'll make an indistinguishable backup using 50% compression. The program doesn't exist and likely never will. You can do 100 passes with dvd-rb and whatever encoder you want and it'll still look crappy. So if you use 40% or less and compare it with shrink or recode the differences are very slight on a tv. people posting screenshots from their pc comparing the two. on an analog tv, which most people still have, you will barely see a difference. i have a core 2 duo 6600 processor too so I went ahead and made two backups yesterday. I used almost 50% compression and made one with dvd-rb/cce 3 passes and one with DVD Shrink deep analysis and max smoothness enhancement. both looked crappy on a 27 inch sanyo. i'd love to know the secret matrices to making a backup with this much compression look good on a 52 inch tv. it's a flat out lie or you can't see clearly.


Originally posted by Mort81:
maxxjulie,

you are entitled to your opinions and preferances. I started out using DVD Shrink and have also tried and own many other transcoding utilities as well. each utility has it's own purpose and place. if you will notice I did say that at 20% compression or less, there wasn't much difference between RB/CCE and most transcoding utilities.

almost all the backups I make, the folder is between 6.0gb and 7.0gb because I save everything except the previews, adverts, and warning screens. there is absolutely no way a transcoding utility could compress a 7.0gb folder without substantial video quality loss. RB/CCE can encode folders this size with minimal loss in video quality. why would I make this up? I do watch every backup I make.

also as I mentioned previously, I have a very fast pc, faster than the average, so time is of no concern to me since I can encode with RB/CCE faster than the average person can transcode with DVD Shrink with advanced analysis and using hqaec. oh and btw, I have 20/20 vision and if you compress to much with a transcoding utility, it can cause irratic playback (skipping and freezing).

look around and you will see that most of the addicts and senior members and people like myself that prefer the best possible video quality (without spending big bucks for profesional software) will recommend RB/CCE for projects that requires more than 20% compression.

if you choose not to use RB/CCE, that is your prerogative. you obviously are not as much of a perfectionest or as particular about video quality as I.

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2007 @ 20:07

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4. April 2007 @ 22:52 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
maxxjulie,

I in no way disrespected you in my previous post. for you to disrespect me the way you did in your last post is highly uncalled for. I don't appreciate being called a lier.

I don't know what you are doing wrong or different but I can honestly say that I have made several backups with 50% compression using RB/CCE 3 passes and there was very little video quality loss. I don't just make things up or lie.

There is no way in hell that DVD Shrink even with deep analysis and max smooth can compete with RB/CCE on folders requiring 30% compression or more.

I make backups with RB/CCE with 40% compression or more all the time and they look good on my 52" hdtv. they wouldn't with shrink.

maybe you better figure out what you are doing wrong or learn how to use the software before you spout off anymore!!!!!!

please, by all means go ahead and use DVD Shrink. your loss not mine. being member status I would have thought you would have learned some things by now. obviously not. go crawl back into the hole you crawled out of.

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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. April 2007 @ 02:10

PacMan777
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5. April 2007 @ 02:08 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
maxxjulie
Mort81 is right, no need to get disrespectful. Mort is right, few who have used DVD RB properly will agree with you. I do backups at high compression levels using RB Pro with CCE SP and get very good results. Here's a short list of backups I recently did along with the compression ratios. They all came out high quality, viewable on a 56" screen HDTV.
Casino Royale, 53.8%
The Holiday, 52.7%
Anchorman, 50.9%
Stranger Than Fiction, 53.4%
Thank You for Smoking, 51.2%


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5. April 2007 @ 02:55 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I rescently backed up a 6 disc set of 24 season 4 onto 3 DL dvd's using dvdremake to combine discs 1 & 2, 3 & 4, and 5 & 6. I then encoded with DVD-RB Pro/CCE SP in DL mode. the reduction level was about 51.7% per DL dvd. The video quality was better than if I was watching it on fox (excluding fox HDTV).

I haven't done any backups to a DVD5 with a reduction level near 50% lately but here are some I have done and the video quality is excellent. title, reduction level, and folder size after editing with dvd remake, prior to encoding.

A Good Year: 65% 6.60gb
Jet Li's Fearless: 68.3% 6.42gb
The Prestige: 66% 6.96gb
Man of the Year: 62.8% 7.18gb
Casino Royale: 67.8% 6.72gb
Stranger Than Fiction: 59.1% 7.01gb
Borat: 65.5% 6.67gb
Flags of our Fathers: 64.2% 6.73gb

Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435
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5. April 2007 @ 03:08 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
WOW!!!! This is interesting. I usually just spectate when threads take this direction, but I must ask:

maxxjulie- Do you have something against DVD Rebuilder?

I usually search extensively to gain a consensus on a particular software/process to narrow down the choices. Through my own testing, I find out what works best for me. I must say, maxxjulie, you are in the extreme minority in your judgement of DVD-RB with CCE, HC, or Procoder2. However, it's just that: YOUR judgement. No one can tell you what you see, but I, too, have a 52-inch HDTV, EXCELLENT vision, and my output from DVD-RB with any of the three encoders I mentioned above is outstanding!!!! Maybe you should compare your output to the SOURCE rather than the output of another software.

My technique is very similar to Mort's as in how many passes and when. Actually, Mort is one of the users whose testing and observations helped influence my decision to use DVD-RB when I was new to this.

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5. April 2007 @ 07:02 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
maxxjulie,

You just won yourself a week suspension for your rude behavior. Respectful disagreement makes for lively debate but what you did is plain crass. I suggest you take that time to learn some manners because I won't be nearly so nice about it if this happens again.



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7. April 2007 @ 15:39 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
There's this ongoing discussion about compression and percentages, and how one application compresses better than another depending on how many giga-plus bytes it has. The physical size of an original DVD copy does not, after compression, necessarily determine its copy quality. There are other factors that causes a DVD to house more gigabytes. Sound tracks for instance, can add up quite quickly, especially when one considers language translations and encoded audio formats (DD, DTS, or PCM).

Transcoders and encoders do things quite differently. Transcoders work with existing DVDs more or less by seeking to remove parts or frames of it that won't be missed such as to affect the overall visuals. A lot of transcoding involves compressing "B" frames, because they can without too much visual loss, handle a much greater compression rato (50:1) than "I" and "P" frames can (>20%). Then there are action scenes with lots of high speed visuals that require much higher bit rates than slow moving or still scenes do!

A quality comparison of formats can only be made against the same original to be valid.

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PacMan777
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8. April 2007 @ 04:31 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Thanks for the lesson. The percentages I gave were compression ratios fitting video to DVD5 with space for audio already figured by the software. I wasn't going by size in GB, though they were pretty good sized DVDs. Rebuilder did well at those levels. I understand audio isn't compressed and less audio kept lowers compression on video. Any time I compare output from transcoders and encoders the original is the basis for comparison. All I could say without the original is how pleasing the output appears and note any flaws such as pixelation and noise.


 
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