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Sony Burner and Nero CD-DVD Speed Utility
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2. November 2006 @ 11:53 |
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Hi everyone!
New to this forum but not to computers or software.
I admin at 3 online Tech Help sites with 600,00 plus membership totals and am considered an Expert's Expert when it comes to Windows OS, but that's neither here nor there for this thread as I'm fairly new to DVD Burning. I do understand terminology and technology so no prob there.
I came across this forum while checking on media quality after reading some cached posts on Google, and I had some things I needed to check out regarding disks I purchased.
I also have Nero 6.6 and Roxio's latest Creative Suite (no conflicts between the two so far). I got Nero as an OEM bundle with the Sony DRU-820A burner I just bought.
So, my question is this, my Sony drive does not seem to support the Nero Speed disc quality test? I have the latest Firmware update (1.0C) and all other functions seem to work in the benchmark utilities, except the one I would really like to see. Is this an issue with most Sony buners concerning Nero CD-DVD Speed? I doubt it's simply a setting in the benchmark utility, it should be automatic I would assume, and I find it hard to believe that ALL Sony Drives kick out the same support error when using this utility?
Any suggestions?
I have written Sony Support about this and asked if they could evaluate and add compatibility for Nero Speed Disk Quality test in a future Firmware update, but I'm not holding my breath for THAT one...;)
I've put this question in this forum since this is where the utility is used most and basically what my issue is regarding. If the Mods wish to move it to a more appropriate forum that's OK by me.
Thx
Dave
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. November 2006 @ 12:08
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. November 2006 @ 13:28 |
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2. November 2006 @ 16:03 |
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Thx IHoe
I've known of possible Nero-Roxio conflicts for some time now and it's usually more confined to other aspects of the programs. I have a VMware XP SP2 test install as well with only Nero on it and I still get the same error results so I doubt it's a program conflict there.
Registry Cleaners are over-rated and actually dangerous in untrained hands, I never recommend them myself. Most folks couldn't recognize a false positive if they saw one and that's where these things fail miserably as they all will throw a few of those at users. Plus, orphaned reg keys are not accessed by anything since the parent program is uninstalled, so they're not read or initialized by the system anymore, their impact is non existant except for space. I've fixed more buggered systems because of these programs than I've ever seen fixed by one..
This is also a 2-3 month old fresh XP SP2 install so excess reg entries would be next to nil on this.
Defragged 2 days ago after I did a massive shift of certain files (12.2G's worth) from my main install partition to a swap partition for archiving, so the drive is good in that area, less than 1% fragmentation.
I now have Nero 7 and the Nero Clean Tools and will be uninstalling 6.6 later and installing 7.
I guess we'll see if this really is a drive firmware issue or an issue with the OEM 6.6 bundle sent with the drive after I install Nero 7. And I guess that's what really throws me here...Sony bundles with Nero and then doesn't provide support for certain Nero program functions...??? Seems odd eh.
Anyway, I'll post back after I clean 6.6 out and install 7 to see if that helps. I'll also check to see if the Nero Speed you linked is the same version that ships with 7 or if it's a newer version out.
Thx again!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. November 2006 @ 16:05
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2. November 2006 @ 16:12 |
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2. November 2006 @ 16:32 |
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Ahhh, didn't know of 7.0.8.2..Thx for that info!!
I'll make sure to make sure that I made sure it's that version ;).
AFAIK, it should be the more stable & recent one as it was the latest version available on Ahead's site but I'll dbl check to make sure on that.
TY again my friend, and I sure hope this is what the problem is and not a Sony non support thing. I made the (seemingly) big mistake of getting Memorex DVD+R DL's (Ritek D01 (001)) and while the burned movies seem to be decent quality, the postings on the quality of that media are a bit un-nerving to say the least!
I have Philips DVD+R 4.5G disks (CMC MAG M01(000)) that I also hear aren't the best. Unfortunately, I didn't get here until AFTER I had bought these at FutureShop (DANG..). So far I seem to have been lucky, no coasters and the burns seem decent but after reading allot here I can see you guys know your stuff when it comes to Media, so it's buggin me that I may have bought Shite!
EDIT - stupid 3 minute rule..anyway, I see Nero 7 is at 7.5.7.0 so that's prolly what I have, I just hope it's stable.
Dave
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. November 2006 @ 16:36
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. November 2006 @ 16:41 |
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well Dave you can learn all about media, too! here is a media guide for you: http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
if you don't already have this guide! Also there are programs like DVDInfo Pro, DVDDEcrypter, DVDIdentifier, Nero InfoTool, and VSO Inspector that will give you all the information about your drive and your media! I'm sure you know this already, but just in case you don't I mention it. those RITEK media, many members say that it is good. those CMC MAGs are crap and will not stand the test of time! Rule of thumb here is the MIJ rule (Made in Japan). Taiyo Yuden, Sony, Maxell, Fuji and others MIJ... check the label on the box or the spindle and make sure it say MIJ! The only Taiwan disk I would use is Verbatim as they are top notch disks, too. Stay away from TDK even though the list on the guide says it's high it's mostly made in Taiwan and to me it's not as good as the list says it is! I don't use them anymore! only had a few and they didn't like my burner! Just my 2 Cents..... I use only Taiyo Yudens or Verbatims!
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2. November 2006 @ 16:56 |
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Originally posted by IHoe:
well Dave you can learn all about media, too!
And thats eactly why I'm here..! ;)
You guys definately seem to know your stuff and I obviously have allot to learn on Media types for DVD's, we're Made for each other!
I read that Ritek was decent but then everyone and their mom is stating Memorux Suxorz big time, so I wasn't sure where these ones I have stand being that they are from both worlds. I only bought a 15 spindle of the Memorex DL's so not like I blew my wad on them.
Is there a big issue of the media not withstanding time or is it just a poor burn to begin with? I'm not backing up sensitive data or anything but I want these movies to last at least until the next new media technology (after Blu-ray maybe) hits the scene. Things change so fast in this business it's almost impossible to keep up anyway.
I WILL be looking for TY's on my next shopping trip too...
Oh yah..I have those tools to, plus VirtualDub, AVISplit and AVIJoin, SmartRipper...etc. I always get the tools I need first, research pays off but I missed the Media stuff I guess.
Great Forum, excellent info, Good People..I like this place!
Dave
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. November 2006 @ 17:04
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2. November 2006 @ 18:01 |
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I don't know where you shop but the only place I can get Taiyo Yuden is online at Meritline.com, Supermediastore.com, Rima.com and other online stores. I like the DVD+R media it's better than the -R media and you can booktype your drive (if it allows you to) so the +R media would be more compatible to most players! here ya go:
there are plenty of reasons why certain dvds won't play in other players:
1. burning speeds: burn at 4x so there will be less writing errors (rule of thumb is to burn at half the rated speed of the disk--8X disk burn at 4x).
2. read manual for your stand alone player and use the disks that will play in your player. If your player is less than 2 yrs old then it should play the + or - R disks! I said SHOULD that's why you read the manual.
3. try booktyping your drive to DVd-ROM so it will make your +R disks more compatible to players. Read this:
http://k-probe.com/bitsetting-booktype-faq.php
4. make sure that there are no finger prints or scratches on your disk that make it hard for the player to read the disk!
5. use good quality media (rule of thumb....buy the ones that are Made in Japan.) Verbatim is a top notch disk and is the only exception to this rule....some Verbatims are made in Taiwan and they are top notch!
6. and don't burn too close to the outer edge of the disk ..... which will make the disk unreadable! but using good media you will be able to burn close to the edge better than lesser quality media. Just in case I only burn no closer than 4400MB, so if you can set your programs to that, all the better!
follow these little tips of the trade and you'll have better success! good luck.
also read this:
http://www.cdfreaks.com/print/article/113
why the +R media is better than the -R media
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2. November 2006 @ 20:51 |
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Hey Bud
You're a great help here! TY Very Much for all the info, Some I know already (fingerprints, scratches, burn speeds, overburn..)some of it I had read on this forum already and some is new. Basically I'm only new to DVD burning and movie file encoding/recoding an stuff, I've been doing CD's for many years.
My drive does support booktyping so I'll get on that!
As for shopping...now it'll be wherever I can find quality media at a good price, and I see that there are many threads here on that subject. I don't usually purchase online but if I have to I will. FutureShop, Staples, Circuit City and a few local PC stores are where I usually go in town so I'll have to look more carefully at their media brands and the hub info.
Well anyway, I thought I'd never see a slower install and update routine than Symantec/Norton products are, but I think I've actually found one that's slower in Nero 7 Ultra Enhanced....man. After the install finally finished, I allowed it to look for updates....121.42MB's worth. That took over another hour to complete and I have a fast box here and T1 fiber optic cable at 7Mbps d'loads, so it wasn't time wasted there...yikes! Took 4+ minutes to d'load it and 56 minutes to install it all and cleanup after itself.
Sony drive still does not support the Disk Quality test on CD-DVD Speed utility (version 4.61.2), I'm convinced that this is a Sony issue now and I've contacted them about possible addition to future firmware updates.
I'm now plagued with a Roxio 7 install box 3 times on every bootup. I believe the Clean Tools utility deleted or unregisterd some shared Dll's and/or drivers and even tho I have nothing in my startups, Roxio seems to be checking things on bootup and wants to repair it. I think Roxio is on it's way out very soon.
Wow, look at all the typing we've (I've) done here...thats enough info for one night. I'll be around here allot more often as my time permits. I still have 3 other foums I admin and those keep my busy as he!!, but you guys have knowledge that I want in on and brain transplants aren't yet advanced enough, so be prepared!
Take Care
Dave
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3. November 2006 @ 01:55 |
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YW.....and welcome to afterdawn.... newbie!
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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3. November 2006 @ 04:11 |
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ChappyTTV--
If your Philips discs are working for you, then they are compatibile with your drive. Don't let others' bad experiences convince you that those discs must be bad and will go bad in time. Forum members recommend Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim discs over all others because they are excellent media. That is correct. They also attack other brands for "poor quality" without making the distinction between quality and compatibility--two very different characteristics. That is the major failing of digitalFAQ's rating of discs. The ratings are based on users' reports of success or failure with different types of discs, without any distinction of the cause of problems. One immediately notices that Japanese drives work well with Japanese brands and not so well with Taiwanese brands. This is intentional on the part of the drive manufacturers. The wrong conclusion is that the Taiwanese-made discs "suck" when, in fact, many of those factories produce the Japanese brands that are claimed to be superior.
In one of your messages you asked whether or not failures over time were unstable discs or were due to poor burns in the first place that finally went bad. Great observation! My contention is that poor recordings that may be due to incompatibility or to unstable materials will fail in a short time, but one failure is due to incompatibility and the other is due to quality. Only test equipment can distinguish between the two, but on this site members assume that problems are only due to "quality" isssues. The "proof" is that switching to a more compatible disc solves the problems. That is not proof of quality at all, but it is effective. In your case the "bad" discs are working, but that contradicts the non-technical mindset here; so you are told your discs will fail in time or that you are a fool to have bought them. Don't believe either argument until you see for yourself. Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim provide the best discs and the most compatible discs on the market, but that does not make other discs worthless.
Let me know if you truly want to learn about media from real specialists who are experts in the field. I can give you a list of sites where you can find excellent, understandable information about optical media from a technical perspective. This site is great for learning about users' experiences, but many of the conclusions drawn about optical media are not technically valid.
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3. November 2006 @ 12:35 |
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Originally posted by IHoe:
YW.....and welcome to afterdawn.... newbie!
LOL!!
Thx..."Xpert"!
P.S. - R.I.P. Roxio Creative Suite 7
One thing that really BUGS me tho, as I installed Nero 7 Ultra Enhanced, I unchecked all file extensions they wanted to take over except for their own proprietary ones.
After install finished, Nero had STOLEN every extension I had unchecked in their list!!! I HATE programs that do that!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. November 2006 @ 13:02
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3. November 2006 @ 12:56 |
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Hi Joe
Yes, the distinction between what is considered to be a "quality" disk and one thats not is rather blurry. As you state, if in fact even a supposedly crappy disk product works well in your own equipment, then who's to say the disk IS crappy...it's working well isn't it..?
It is a matter of preferrence in allot of cases here and I've recognized that already, but as we know, some makers are better than others and it's usually best to stick with those when possible. So far I've had no issues with either product I have, the Philips DVD+R and the Memorex DVD+R DL's both perform admirably in my equipment.
One problem I AM having tho, is getting file sizes to be within acceptable limits after running VirtualDub. No matter what I seem to try, the output file size is at least 3 times larger than the input. I have a split file that (unfortunately) has VBR Audio in an AVI file and we know that's not compatible. I'm trying to fix that using VirtDub so I can join the files for a burn and the outputs are way to big. I'm still new to using this s'ware so I'm reading the guides and trying things as I think of them but I still can't get the output file to be under 4G's from two files that start at 701MB's each. I've just d'loaded DivX Pro to see if that can help by adjusting the bitrate settings. I've probably deleted at least 9 attempts so far, my recycle bin is going to throw up soon...
I am very interested in some of those links also, please post any you may think will be relevant or useful for me! I'm still swimming in other data I'm trying to assimilate at the moment ("my brain hurts"..resistance is futile), but I'll get to them soon enough.
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4. November 2006 @ 11:22 |
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Update
Well, I got the file size down using Nero Recode to convert it to Nero Digital and then combined the 2 using VirtualDub. The burn using Nero Vision was going to be larger than a DVD9 disk so I bumped the quality down to Good which just fit onto the disk...barely.
Here's where the saying "Don't burn too close to the edge" plays into it all..."Burn Failed" right at the very end of the burn!
Started the process at 4:43PM yesterday and it completed at 9:47AM this morning. Well, not completed but that's when the burn failure occured. I was totally bummed that I thought all that time had been wasted and I had my 1st DVD coaster, but I figured I'd have a look at it with WMP11 anyway. The entire movie played, including closing credits, right up to the very, very last little bit and then WMP froze up solid, and I Mean solid! Hard reboot time but the movie plays. I've yet to see what will happen in a stand alone player yet, it may decide the entire disk is shot..I dunno.
Anyway, I had a look at the edges of the disk under magnification. I have some decent Microscopic equipment here, and you can actually see where the media is damaged ever so slightly at the edge in some places, probably when they deburr/sand the edges during processing. I can follow the grooves for the laser track and right at this one spot there seems to be a weird (hard to describe) "blip" for lack of a better term, that is at the very last spot that burned it seems.
So that just confirms everyones own experiences with this issue, that it seems there may be damaged media just near the outer edges of a disk, and depending on the manufacturing quality, it could extend in for some ways (8 to 15 grooves) or it could just be the very last few grooves. Either way, burning to the edge is a practice that I won't allow to happen again. Unfortunately tho when Nero "Fits to Disk", it likes to push the edges so I guess I'll have to manually adjust the bitrate or sumthin to get around that in the future.
Dave
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9. November 2006 @ 08:21 |
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Been so busy "backing up" ;) my movies lately that I forgot to tell you that Sony does NOT in fact, support the Nero CD/DVD Speed "Disk Quality" test utility.
Which is very odd since that's what comes bundled with the burner as it's software support...
I've contacted Sony about it and I'm awaiting a reply (yah...right...) to see if it could possibly be added to a future firmware update.
Also, I've learned more about the Advanced settings in the DivX Pro codec that I wasn't aware of before, and have gotten file sizes to exactly what I need and great quality disks!! It sure helps to understand the tools that you're using when doing this stuff. I have had great success with the Memorex DL DVD's so far and the Philips DVD's are also recording very well so I'm happy in that regard. Plus I found that only a very few disks (2 of 15) have distorted/damaged media quality at the very outer edges of the disk, and other movies burned to within .2G's of the edge work well.
I'll be reading and contributing more as I learn and get better at this, so I'll catch y'all later.
Thx IHoe and Joe Ryan for your help, P.S. - Joe...still waiting on those URL's you promised...;)
Dave
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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10. November 2006 @ 12:27 |
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ChappyTTV--
The links below are some of the best sources I've found for good, accurate information regarding optical discs. There are many forums, and they are good for defining customers' experiences once the angry claims are filtered out; but too few of the forum members are either scientists or involved in production of storage media or the marketing politics behind products.
http://www.mmislueck.com/ is the link for MMIS, a knowledgeable source of information on magnetic as well as optical storage with lots of market data and production information.
For information about test equipment, testing standards, and how to determine QUALITY, check out:
http://www.audiodev.com/ Audio Development produces the test equipment used by virtually every manufacturer capable of making a good disc or a drive. It is the world standard. (Although NIST's Fred Byers has told me that even their equipment does vary a bit, and work in the OSTA group is beginning to determine how much variation is considered serious. The head of the Santa Clara Group is the president of OSTA.)
http://www.mscience.com/ A great site explaining quality parameters. Jerry Hartke's contention is that there are two major causes of disc problems often ignored--file corruption and recording at too great a speed (pit morphology problems.)
For information concerning optical discs:
http://www.memorex.com/downloads/whitepa...Media_Jun06.pdf This is downloadable pdf file. Forget that it's from Memorex--this file is must reading for anyone who wants to know honest, accurate information about optical media instead of rumors. The best written, most accurate, most comprehensive information from MiniDiscs to Blu-ray (and no commercials).
http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/ An excellent primer on optical discs. This is shorter and less comprehensive than the Memorex reference file, but it is worth reading for anyone interested in learning accurate information.
http://eta-optik.com/fix/index-company.htm Some heavy reading from one of the major producers of manufacturing equipment. This may be too deep for non-engineers; but if you read through the Memorex reference file first, these papers will make sense.
Lots of material, but it's all very interesting.
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11. November 2006 @ 22:29 |
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Thanx very much Joe!
Looks like a ton of good material to go thru there.
BTW, I am an Engineer..I make my living as a Lt. Firefighter in the Fire Dept here but have degrees in Structural Engineering and Physics, so I should be able to glean some useful info from there.
I'm really getting good burns lately, only three coasters out of 10 burns, right at the start there but everything else is turning out pretty decent. Every once in awhile my set-top player kinda freezes temporarily on some disks during chapter jumps or has a few small blips during playback that doesn't happen when they're in the computer, but nothing drastic or disk ruining so far.
One movie (Memorex DL disk) that Nero said was a successful burn, won't get recognized in anything, settop or computer. I went thru the burn logs to see if something didn't seem right but nothing jumped out at me. I can't get Windows to even allow me to look at the files on the disk, it just says it's not a format recognized by Windows and thats it. I would love to run the .VOB files thru my file analyzer to see whats wrong but I just can't get to them...pisser.
Oh well, I've learned tons of stuff about DVD's lately and look forward to reading those links you posted.
Thx
Dave
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14. November 2006 @ 08:49 |
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Quote:
.... One problem I AM having tho, is getting file sizes to be within acceptable limits after running VirtualDub. No matter what I seem to try, the output file size is at least 3 times larger than the input. I have a split file that (unfortunately) has VBR Audio in an AVI file and we know that's not compatible. I'm trying to fix that using VirtDub so I can join the files for a burn and the outputs are way to big.
If you are trying to merge a 2 part AVI do it with VirtualDub mp3 freeze. From File, open the first, then choose Append and open the second. Under Video choose 'Direct stream copy'. Now 'Save AVI', the whole process should take a couple of minutes (no re-encoding) and the resultant file size will be whatever the original files add up to be.
Don't worry about previews or anything just do it.
http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=Virtualdub_MP3_Freeze
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15. November 2006 @ 08:14 |
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Hi MysticE
Thx for that!
I had already gotten that part figured out tho, so I'm not having that file size issue anymore. I've learned a considerable amount in the last while, and once you understand exactly what (or as close as possible anyway..) every different mode or setting changes or affects, it's allot easier to figure out what the outcome can be.
I just took the time to really go thru the different settings in the help files and a bit more digging online for more about certain areas and it's all making way more sense now.
I just have to get Sony to add support for CD/DVD Speed in a future update (picture me holding breath here.....) and I'll be happy!
Well, that and find a place in town that sells TY DVD disks. Gawd, it seems everyone in this city has a deal with Memorex or sumthing, or TDK because those are the 2 most common types you find here. They must've had a truck crash on it's way thru town so they just sold them at a discount to all our retailers here it seems.
Dave
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15. November 2006 @ 09:38 |
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@ Chappy
Quote:
I just have to get Sony to add support for CD/DVD Speed in a future update (picture me holding breath here.....) and I'll be happy!
Don't worry too much about that, you can do a 'Transfer Rate' test with CD/DVD Speed. Nice clean read back results will show if you have a good media to burner match.
If you get results like this, all is good.
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