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Which DVDR's are best to burn on?
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mcelano83
Junior Member
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29. December 2006 @ 01:12 |
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I'm using a Dell laptop. I use all different methods of ripping and burning, including shrink, DVD Decrypter, Nero, fab decrypter, and rip it 4 me, and no matter which I use, the final movie quality is not as great as I know it could be. Certain scenes in movies may be a little blurry compared to the others, or the colors may seem a little distorted in some scenes compared to others. I'm thinking it may be the DVDR's I'm using. I'm using Fuji Film DVDR+. Are these not good? Is there another brand you recomend?
Any help will do.
Thanks!
Mike
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AfterDawn Addict
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29. December 2006 @ 03:09 |
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I use and recommend Verbatim or Sony (made in japan)..stay clear of memorex or anything made by CMC Mag.
Burn at around 4X
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. December 2006 @ 06:02 |
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I got some fuji's sitting here that code as prodisc. These are the worst discs that I have run into.
Get some verbatim. Someone always have them on sale for $13-$15 a 50 pk: Office max,Office Depot,Best Buy.
If you run across some Made In Japan spindles of Sony,Fuji,or maxell-they should also be very good.
Or get genuine Taiyo Yuden online at Rima.com,supermediastore.com,or meritline.com.
Burn at half the rated speed of those Verbs and tys.
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!! |
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mcelano83
Junior Member
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30. December 2006 @ 23:16 |
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Thanks guys. And you think it's the media right? And not my method of ripping/burning? I use all different methods and experiment, and the end picture quality all seem to be the same. I either use shrink and then Nero or DVD Decrypter to burn it, or if that doesnt work, ill use fab decrypter, Vob Blanker, then DVD Decrypter or Nero to burn. Ive even used Rip it 4 me too, any which way I do it, the coloring in the picture seems distorted, like faint, if you know what I mean, only in certain scenes. Some scenes are clear, then others a little fuzzy, etc. Im thinking its the media too.
Thanks guys!
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AfterDawn Addict
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31. December 2006 @ 04:39 |
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If backing up entire disc,high compression can give you a lower quality playback. I try to avoid compression,and when it dips above 10%, I make sure to use the AEC enhancements of DVD Shrink.
Fuji outsources their media,like most other brand named media. Use nero's infotool and locate the MID code of those fuji.Here's some of the codes that I ran into from fuji:
Examples of + format Fuji MID codes:
Yuden000-T02 - which is some of the best
Ritek-R03 - which is also very good
Prodisc R05-001 - which is some of the worst media I have run into.
Huge quality difference between the yuden fujis and the prodisc fujis.
Use nero's disc quality scan program and run a scan,if your burner is capable of using that program.Some drives can't use that program like plextor Px-716A. See what kind of score you get out of 1 of those backups.
I don't mess with DVD Decrypter,unless it's a DVD-5 to DVD-5 or if I'm ripping a DVD-9 and backing up to DL media using ImgBurn to burn.. I use DVD Shrink,autoburn with Nero,and enable AnyDVD in the background for the newer releases like Sony,Columbia,and some Lions Gate. A very effective process and DVD Shrink is the only program that I open up.
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!!
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mcelano83
Junior Member
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1. January 2007 @ 09:20 |
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Guys, something is not right here. This reply applies to gwendolin and saugmon. You guys both told me to buy Verbatim, which I did. First off, it wasnt $13-15 for 50 pk, they were $29.99 for a 50 pk in all of best buy, office depot, and office max. I still bought them, and they don't work at all!!! My computer doesn't even read them. They're DVD-RW. Is that not good? Should I have looked for just DVDR+ or something? I tried both with Nero and DVD Decrypter. When i put the disc in, it just says Can't read disc, please enter disc. It doesn't work!!! I put back in one of my other DVDR's (the crappy Fuji ones that don't come out the greatest, and my computer reads that disc! But that doesn't help me. What do you suggest I do?
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Senior Member
3 product reviews
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1. January 2007 @ 15:22 |
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Allow me to help you with that one. RW (Re-Writeable) discs are not good for burning.(Only maybe for a "Test Burn".) These in the link are at Best Buy, 25 for $6.99. These are DVD+R 16x. They also have the DVD-R 16X Flavor. DVD+R or DVD-R is a matter of perference. I use only DVD+R because they can be booktyped to DVD-ROM. But, DVD-R are fine. It's the Brand/Quality that matters most.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?...d=1091100392023
Use The Best Media for The Best Burns! TYs, Verbs,(Made in Taiwan) Sony MIJs (YUDEN000 T02), Sony Made in Taiwan DVD+R 16x, Maxell MIJ, RITEK G05.
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Moderator
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2. January 2007 @ 06:59 |
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@bunnyrip - i've had to stop reading your posts due to bold overload :P
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules *** |
AfterDawn Addict
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2. January 2007 @ 15:19 |
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What's the make and model of your DVD-RW drive?
What's the current firmware version for it?
Use nero's infotool and post back the answers.That will definitely help.
Can you post a Nero burn log,leaving out the serial number which is similar to 1A23-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx?
Rw media is lot harder for drives to read,but they should write-if they are capable of burning -RW media. Some drives aren't capable of burning -RW media.
RW media costs more,and works pretty good for practicing. You will have a lower compatability rate with them.
Your burner may not be programmed to handle those -RW discs if you can't even get them recognized to burn. Firmware may be updated. Firmware controls the writing strategy for media.Firmware tells the burner how to properly burn that certain media.It sometimes helps for playback issues.
Older drives + newer/faster media = firmware update usually needs performed. Usually when you look at nero's burn log and see Failure during the lead-in phase,no disc inserted.
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!!
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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3. January 2007 @ 11:49 |
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The color or sharpness issues you describe have nothing to do with disc quality at all. The color or sharpness could be up to the encoding software; but since they all produce the same results, it is more likely that the video source is is not up to your standards. This is common when imperfect sources are blown up on large screens or projectors and the imperfections are more apparent. (That's why iPod, PSP, or cell-phone video can look so good--the imperfections are buried.) Compressing video, as others have mentioned, will introduce more imperfections, but color saturation is not one of them.
The Fuji discs use Fuji's Oxonol dye. This dye requires a bit more laser power than other dyes, but it appears to be one of the most stable dyes available. If your drive can record these media well, they will last a long time. If your drive has problems, its laser diode may be underpowered; and slower speeds will improve things a bit. The fact that you are using Fuji discs has nothing to do with the quality of the video.
DVD+R and DVD-R use permanent dyes for recording. Once you have recorded them, you can no longer change them. The DVD+RW and DVD-RW are rewritable discs that use semi-metal alloys that allow the discs to be recorded, erased, and rerecorded. They are perfectly suitable for recording, but only if your drive supports them by knowing how to record them. It sounds as though your drive does not recognize them, and that is why it cannot record them. (This is particularly true if the rated speed of DVD-RW is greater than 2X or if your drive is a DVD+RW drive that cannot record DVD-RW at all. Many people blame the discs for "poor quality" in those cases when quality has nothing to do with it at all.)
Don't throw the Fuji's away yet. Check the original video files to the ones you have recorded on the same monitor in order to make a valid comparison. If there is no difference, then you will have to purchase some expensive video editing software to boost saturation/sharpness, lower your expectations, or try to find better sources for the video.
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Member
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4. January 2007 @ 07:56 |
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Quote:
DVD+R and DVD-R use permanent dyes for recording. Once you have recorded them, you can no longer change them.
May I ask why that is? Are they changed by the recording process? And also:Quote:
The DVD+RW and DVD-RW are rewritable discs that use semi-metal alloys that allow the discs to be recorded, erased, and rerecorded.
How does that work? I read somewhere that the +RW format erased the file system and wasn't considered to be proper DVD. Is that so? I thank you for any information you post...
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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4. January 2007 @ 09:30 |
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DVD-R and DVD+R use an organic dye that allows light to pass through until the heat from a recording laser discolors the dye so that it no longer passes light. This is why people refer to the process as "burning." The pass/no pass method of the reflected reading laser's light simulates the direct/indirect bouncing of light off the edge of a pit molded into a regular DVD or CD. This is how the binary digital information of 0 or 1 gets into the player circuitry. Once the organic dye is changed, it cannot change back again.
Rewritable discs use several layers of semi-metal alloy that has two states: a shiny crystalline state or a cloudy amorphous state the reflects much less light than the crystalline state. Heating the alloy layers to about 320 degrees F. will crystallize them. Melting them at 1,100 degrees F. and suddenly cooling them ("quenching" is the technical term) will cause the alloy layers to set in no identifiable pattern at all. Reheating them will change them back into the shiny crystalline state once again. This is how the discs can be erased and resused. The reflective difference between the shiny crystalline state and the cloudy amorphous state is far less than that between the pass/no pass properties of dye-based media, and that is one reason why rewritable media do not work in all types of players.
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Member
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4. January 2007 @ 09:54 |
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Thank you for your reply...very informative -
So its not possible to use an organic dye that can be rewritten? Or is that being worked on?
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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4. January 2007 @ 12:00 |
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The very nature of organic dyes prevents their reuse. The Blu-ray recordable discs, in fact, are frequently avoiding dyes altogether by using eutectic fusing of copper and silicon instead of dyes.
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Member
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4. January 2007 @ 12:04 |
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Thank you...hope you didn't mind me asking...
Regards
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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5. January 2007 @ 07:42 |
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I don't mind answering at all! The only thing that bothers me is the frequent attacks on certain brands of discs for "poor quality" when the obvious cause is a slow USB connection, incompatible firmware, or incorrect format structures. When the preferred discs have identical problems, "they must be counterfeit!" Good trouble-shooting uses basic logic paradigms to isolate a cause. Once the cause is identified, there is usually a fix.
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Member
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5. January 2007 @ 08:04 |
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Ok fair enough and I think I'm starting to see some light.
Most of us say, based on experience, use TY or Verbatim and avoid everything else. This seems a good rule of thumb guide for the beginner, but your saying are you not, that all discs will work if other factors like the ones you list are in place? If so would you explain more please. For instance:
How would you trouble shoot burning/playback problems, logically, step by step?
And also:Quote:
incorrect format structures
Sorry I didn't understand that could you explain a bit more please?
Thanks...
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. January 2007 @ 15:08 |
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Quote:
How would you trouble shoot burning/playback problems, logically, step by step?
I)Figure out what drive/s are having playback issues.
II)Make sure the DVD-RW drive that burned it,plays it back using the pc and a program like windvd,powerdvd,etc. The playback should look very close in quality,as the original source is.
III) Verify the backups: Test them in other drives- ps2/xbox/stand alones/and pc drives-usually the area where the issues occur.
IV)) Scan them with a quality scanning test like: Kprobe,Nero's Disc quality,Plextools,Dvdinfopro. Look for unusual spiking,PIE/PIF errors,etc. Keep an eye on where those abnormal spikes occur.
Any issues-here's some of the culprits:
a)Media quality
b)Burn speed
c)compression
d) Burn engine
e) Dirty laser lens
f) Paper/sticker labels
g) fragmented hd
h) Burner quality
i) Programs being used to transfer avi/bit-torrents into dvd format.
j) Spyware,malware,virus's,trojans,etc-also
k) Burning to egde of disc,if problems are on the end of your backups.Reduce backup target.
l) Heat issues
m) Format issues
n) Multi-tasking
o) Encryption related
This is just some of the things that can trigger playback issues,and some stand alone players can pick them apart. Knowing which drive/s has those issues helps narrow it down.
A) Media quality is the #1 issue. Get some verbatim
B) Burn speed- Burn half the rated speed of your media: 16x media-at 8x burn.
C) Keep compression to a minimum-usually get a blurry/and or blockiness look during playback.Main movie only
D) Try a different burn engine,they do vary and stand alone players can tell a difference between them.
E) Use a little compressed air in the drive-use a hard lens cleaning disc as a last resort. Usually when problem is narrowed down to 1 stand alone player.
F)No paper/sticker labels. Any playback issues when using them,strip them off and play again. Unbalanced,peeling off,and heat buildup are just a few things they can do.
G)Fragmented Harddrive/s: Dvd ripping puts a heavy burden on your harddrive. Keep an eye for when the need to defrag.
H)There's some crappy burners out there,HP!!!!,Some may also need a firmware update to be able to handle the newer/faster media. Firmware controls the writing strategy.
I) Try a different transfering program if burning dvds that were dowloaded from bittorrents,avi's,mpegs,etc.
J)Keep pc free of spyware,malware,and other nasty stuff.Keep the registy free of errors.
K)Keep from burning the outer edge of blank-keep backup target around 4360 mbs.
L) Some programs max out processor,add a couple fans,blowers.Make sure you have an ample PS.
M)No disc errors: Wrong format,switch format and any of these culprits I listed.
N)Avoid multi-tasking.
O) Encryption related issues which I have encountered with a few columbia releases.
There's a pretty simple formula to help prevent playback issues:
Quality media,4x-8x burn,backup target 4360 mbs,no sticker labels,no multi-tasking.
Knowing the exact issue,where they occur at,and which drive/s are showing those issues will help narrow it down. These issues will be: No disc error,pixellation,freezing,skipping,pausing,blockiness,unable to play certain chapters.
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!!
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Junior Member
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6. January 2007 @ 08:43 |
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opps never mind, moved my question.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. January 2007 @ 09:42
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Member
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9. January 2007 @ 05:16 |
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Hi saugmon. Thank you for you comprehensive reply to my ask -
Regards...
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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11. January 2007 @ 11:59 |
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Saugmon's recommendations are very thorough and comprehensive. I would put disc compatibility ahead of disc quality in his order of issues. I find compatibility to be the #1 issue that gets attributed to quality.
As for scanning, you will get different results from different programs and different drives; but the spikes created by legitimate disc flaws generally appear in the same places. (Spikes that appear in the same place all the time on all discs are actually disc drive commands mistaken for errors by the software. Don't worry about them.) Check the disc visually in the places where the spikes occur, and you can often find the cause of the errors. They are typically dye comets from imperfections in the coating or they are flaws in the reflective alloy layer. When the scan spikes correlate with physical flaws, they are indications of poor quality. If there is no correlation, poor scans could be due to incompatibility. When all poor scans match each other in error profiles, that is an indication of either incompatibility or consistent poor quality. (Inconsistently poor scans generally mean inconsistent quality because incompatibility of write strategy with a particular MID code is uniform.)
Logical troubleshooting involves identifying every possible explanation for a problem and then testing to eliminate or identify each possible explanation. Incompatibility and quality issues share many of the same symptoms, and it is not easy to distinguish the two without sophisticated equipment.
"Incorrect format structures" just means invalid formats or corruptions in the way files are supposed to appear. For example, copying DVD files while missing one of the backup files. These problems were far more common some time ago, but newer versions of software often check for valid structures and inform users of problems. Recording DVD-video was a real pain six or seven years ago when one would have to wait 5 hours after transcoding to learn there was a "vobulate fail" message at the end. ("Vobulate" is a word made up by software geeks at one company to mean "make a Video OBject file." The geeks forgot to tell their customers what their special word meant; they just give them the inscrutable message!) Those were ugly days.
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Member
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12. January 2007 @ 06:56 |
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Hi Joe thanks for the reply -
Burning programs seem to be very important and most seem to burn with Nero. I've had problems with Nero and switched to Imgburn. May I ask what you think of these programs if its not going off topic too much?
Regards
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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12. January 2007 @ 07:09 |
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I confess I don't know much about burning software other than Nero. Nero has always done everything I need it to with excellent results; so I haven't bothered with anything else except testing Roxio/Sonic Solutions, the older DLA, and a few other versions of software. My testing is generally on media and drives. For that I have to eliminate as many variables as possible, so sticking with one recording program, operating system, and chipset makes things simpler.
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Member
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12. January 2007 @ 07:40 |
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Sounds reasonable to me. Thanks anyway and I expect I'll see you round the forums -
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. January 2007 @ 11:45 |
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For DVD burning,Nero gives me the best results,and that's with the plain old OEM disc which I have 6.0.0.21b and 6.6.0.14
I can tell a difference between burn engines with the playback on stand alone players. I get more issues using dvd decrypter's burn engine. Now the newer ImgBurn is looking very good.
The only issues I had were when i tried to update my old Nero 6.
Lots of people have trouble because of uninstalling Nero to download it again. There's lots of remnants left over during the uninstall. Using the program called Nero cleantool 6 helps remove those remnants,then you can download it again. Same goes for roxio.
You can also have program clashes,which Nero and Roxio is well known as to causing issues when both are loaded on a pc. Nero has INCD,roxio has Drag to disc. Both programs try to take over. That's why I don't load the INCD packets.
I've also got Sonic and CopyToDVD,but good ole Nero is all I need,except for Dual Layers, LOL
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