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Panasonic plasma or Sony LCD ?
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Ken1222
Newbie
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26. November 2007 @ 00:36 |
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I was ready to buy a Panasonic TH50PZ750U but read some magazine reviews that criticized it for not being able to accept 1080p/24 and occasionally having problems with 1080p/60. So then I read about the Sony KDL46XBR4, with its 120MHZ and its ability to take 1080p/24.
My questions are:
1. What exactly does this Panasonic limitation mean? Does it mean I'll never be able to play a HD DVD in the 1080p/24 format?
2. Do the Blu-Ray or HD players put out anything else besides 1080p/24?
3. What are your opinions on the 2 TVs? Side-by-side, I thought the Sony was sharper around the edges of football player uniforms and score banners. Also thought the Panny colors were a little too harsh. However, the Sony screen looked a little too light at times.
Help!!!
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Junior Member
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28. November 2007 @ 02:10 |
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First of all, Never ever ever ever ever look at 2 TV's side-by-side inside a store. I work in a Circuit City and im sure that every place in the world that sells TV's does this too, but they make the more expensive TV look better through the picture settings on the TV itself to make you bye it.
I do not know anything about Blue Ray
But for your main question, Sony LCD all the way. however if i where you, i would look for a different brand of TV because about 25% of your money in that TV is going to the 4 letters S, O, N, and Y. Other brands are just as good, but in stores, they will make the other brands look worse only so the Sony catches your eye forcing you to buy it.
Panasonic is pretty much the same way, but they are slowly fading away for some reason because no one wants plasma. Personaly, their are no plasma TV's in any stores around me any more.
I hope some of this works, and im sorry i could not help you with your DVD problem.
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Ken1222
Newbie
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28. November 2007 @ 09:18 |
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Thank you
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tddk
Junior Member
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29. November 2007 @ 01:25 |
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Circuit city and best buy even have sony employees that work there just to sell the tvs, but they cant actually sell them, they just refer you to a sales associate to buy the tv after they convince you to buy it. I found that hysterical when i was at best buy last week.
Head over to cnet, they have excellent reviews about both tv's.
Personally, I love my samsung 50" Slim line DLP thats 1080P. Based off that, id say samsung all the way.
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Junior Member
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30. November 2007 @ 00:58 |
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Nice!
thats a good solid brand thats not as expensive as the SONY label and is an excellent TV!
and yea, i have seen people from TV brands come in and talk to people for like hours making them get the TV just so they would shut up!
ha!
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jrm01
Newbie
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8. December 2007 @ 12:03 |
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I just found this forum yesterday and this is my first post.
Just let me say I am a little amused at some of the posts that I have read.
I work at Best Buy (one of the largest in the state) and I have never seen a Sony rep in the store talking to customers. If I did I would join the conversation just to balance his comments. Also, there is no way we would adjust the Sony sets to look better than the others. In fact, it is all we can do to get them turned on each morning before the customers come in, let alone worry about the settings. They are usually set up for display at the out-of-box settings.
Regarding the OP question: You are looking at two of the best displays available. The suggestion that a Samsung DLP would be comparable is way off base. The Samsung is a good value for the money, but doesn't come close to these sets in PQ. The real decision here may just come down to preference of LCD vs. Plasma. The Sony usually sells for a few hundred dollars less than the Panny, but this will vary week to week based on promotions.
The 1080p/24 feature at 120hz for the Sony is great if you watch a lot of Blu-Ray with the latest (1080p/24) source. It produces a smoother image that almost looks to be 3-d. If you watch a lot of sports I think the Panny may be the better choice (assuming you have the proper lighting in the room).
Bottom line: You would love either one of these.
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Ken1222
Newbie
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8. December 2007 @ 23:57 |
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Thanks. Very intelligent post. I actually bought the Sony 46 XBR4 today, and I do watch a lot of sports. I still feel the Sony XBR4 is a sharper picture than the Panny 700 or 750. Of course thats just my opinion, but for my $2700, thats all that counts.
CC sold me two HDMI Monster 1000HD cables at $129 each. I cam home, went on Amazon, and there they were for $82 each. Felt like I won the lottery there!
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error5
Senior Member
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9. December 2007 @ 09:29 |
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Panasonic PT-AE3000 1080p Projector//Carada 110" Criterion High Contrast Grey 16:9 Screen//Oppo BDP-83SE//Toshiba HD-XA2
Classe SSP800 Processor//Classe CA-5200 5 Channel Amplifier//Classe CA-2200 2 Channel Amplifier
Bowers & Wilkins 802D L-R/HTM 1D Center/SCMS Surrounds/JL Audio Fathom f113 x 2
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Junior Member
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9. December 2007 @ 22:29 |
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Originally posted by jrm01:
I just found this forum yesterday and this is my first post.
Just let me say I am a little amused at some of the posts that I have read.
I work at Best Buy (one of the largest in the state) and I have never seen a Sony rep in the store talking to customers. If I did I would join the conversation just to balance his comments. Also, there is no way we would adjust the Sony sets to look better than the others. In fact, it is all we can do to get them turned on each morning before the customers come in, let alone worry about the settings. They are usually set up for display at the out-of-box settings.
Regarding the OP question: You are looking at two of the best displays available. The suggestion that a Samsung DLP would be comparable is way off base. The Samsung is a good value for the money, but doesn't come close to these sets in PQ. The real decision here may just come down to preference of LCD vs. Plasma. The Sony usually sells for a few hundred dollars less than the Panny, but this will vary week to week based on promotions.
The 1080p/24 feature at 120hz for the Sony is great if you watch a lot of Blu-Ray with the latest (1080p/24) source. It produces a smoother image that almost looks to be 3-d. If you watch a lot of sports I think the Panny may be the better choice (assuming you have the proper lighting in the room).
Bottom line: You would love either one of these.
Poor management...
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flyboy04
Newbie
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10. December 2007 @ 17:32 |
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Hey Ken1222!
Your choice is very good but I found for my personal taste that the Sharp Aquos LCD are way better techonology wise! The were the firts to get the LCD tv out and are still the leaders. But you have to make sure you get the 1080p!
For the bestbuy seller, there is sony guys that are trying to sell their products and also some toshiba guys... How I know, well i saw them! And yes you can't compare tv in shop because the are never at the best performance setup!
Finally, I would suggest you return those cable cause Monster Cable are wayyyyyyy overpriced for what they are. You can get a cable just as good for way less. It has been test in a lab with a cheap ebay cable and both cable had same signal, the monster had just a little bit less interference but hey it's a 1$ ebay cable. Look for cables in the 20$ to 50$ range and u should see no difference. I use Interlink with excellent results!
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diabolos
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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12. December 2007 @ 11:53 |
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Sony vs Panny, a 3 round bout!
First off, every big box retailer and wholesale store on the planet has reps from the brands they carry come out to their stores (Ever been in a grocery store and been offered a free sample?). Depending on what type of rep they are they can do as little as make sure there tvs are up and running to training the store staff to doing demos for customers on their products. They are not there to sell. They don't work for BBY, CC, CoCo, ect. They are there to educate and encourage the sell of there employers products. I know that Best Buy doesn't allow the reps to actually sell to customers as that would be an obviously flawed sales approach. (Sony or Panasonic? its a Draw)
2nd, Ken1222, you should always choose a product based on your lifestyle and budget. Every product/technology has unique features that will appeal to different people. Also one might be better in a particular situation than another. In your case the Sony may have a great picture but did you know the Panny has better colors? Did you know that 120hz simply eliminates motion blur, in LCDs, a problem plasmas don't have to begin with? The main factors are lighting condition and viewing distance. The Lighting Condition will determine your technology, Viewing distance will determine your screen size and resolution. Also your budget should prioritize things into perspective as far as flat-panel or rear-projection. (Sony Wins this round by a little)
3rd, Blu-ray and HD DVD both output whatever you want them to up to 1080i. Most players (99%) will output 1080p/60 (the standard 1080p video stream) and some will output 1080p/24 (the direct video bitstream from the disc without any video processing by the player). Is 1080p/24 important, YES. Is it a determining factor in this debate, NO (not yet anyway). You see both tvs can only "use" 1080p/60. The Panny makes you send it 1080p/60. The Sony gives you more flexibility but does the video conversion from 1080p/24 to 1080p/60 in the TV then sends video to the screen. So what you are left with are the same results. It is actually better in my opinion to make the player send the TV 1080p/60 as this would cut down on the cost of "my" tv and ensure that the video presentation is limited by the source device not "my" TV. (Panasonic wins round by a good margin)
Ced
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dblbogey7
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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14. December 2007 @ 07:57 |
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Excellent post Ced.
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Ken1222
Newbie
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14. December 2007 @ 20:59 |
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Ced - Good post, but it confuses me.
What do you mean by "better colors?" (dont worry, I am a computer engineer and can understand tech talk).
Also, you state "Blu-ray and HD DVD both output whatever you want them to up to 1080i" and then state "Most players (99%) will output 1080p/60 (the standard 1080p video stream) and some will output 1080p/24." If 99% go to 1080p/60, did you mean to say "Blu-ray and HD DVD both output whatever you want them to up to 1080p?"
BTW, I got CC down to $2475 for the XBR4 which I think is a pretty good price.
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diabolos
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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15. December 2007 @ 12:33 |
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Thanks dblbogey7,
@ Ken1222,
Sorry about the confusion. I'll try to explain. Plasma has always had an edge over LCD in Contrast Ratio and Black Level. While the XBR-4 has an excellent picture, especially after calibration, its blacks are still not as good as the better plasmas out there. What I mean by that is the shadow detail isn't as good as the Pioneer Kuro sets or Panasonic plasmas (for example). LCD can get brighter than Plasma can but rarely approaches the inky blacks and natural primaries that a decent plasma screen can produce.
The other problem is that LCDs that have matted screens sacrifice color fidelity for anti-glare protection. This causes the screen to have a less than 3D picture (especially with off axis viewing). While the XBR-4 and 5 are awesome LCDs, as far as color, black level, and accurate primary colors, I've seen better. The Samsung 71 series and 65/66 series come to mind.
Quote:
If 99% go to 1080p/60, did you mean to say "Blu-ray and HD DVD both output whatever you want them to up to 1080p?"
No. I was taking frames and model limitations into account when I said that. These HD DVD players, the HD-A1, A2, and A3 all are limited to 1080i. The LG Duo player is also limited to the add-ball format 1080p/30. The rest of the next-gen players will output 1080p/60 and a good number will also output 1080p/24 (the direct video stream) to compatible displays either out of the box or after a firmware upgrade.
Quote:
BTW, I got CC down to $2475 for the XBR4 which I think is a pretty good price.
Depending on the screen size (which I am assuming is a 46") that is a great deal!
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. December 2007 @ 12:35
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jrm01
Newbie
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15. December 2007 @ 21:00 |
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Ced,
great info and comparisons. However, I'm confused by your downplaying the benefit of 1080p/24. I thought that when that is used by Sony with Motionflow and 120 hz. technolgy it eliminated the need for 2x3 pull-down and thus produced a much smoother looking picture.
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Ken1222
Newbie
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16. December 2007 @ 01:26 |
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Ced - Thank you for the info and your time to provide it. You now have me thinking maybe I should go back and relook my comparison of the Panasonic TH50PZ750U vs the XBR4. I will try to pay attention to the inky blacks and shadow detail.
But I am trying to keep the price reasonable (was very happy to read your comment on the price I paid, and yes, it was a 46") since I may move in a couple of years and at that point will go for a 58 incher.
I got the $2475 (had paid $2745) after I asked CC to match a Sears promotion of $2799 + 10% off using a Sears card. I had to open a CC credit card, but it was worth it.
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diabolos
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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16. December 2007 @ 16:58 |
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@ Ken1222 , No problem friend, anytime.
@ jrm01,
Quote:
I thought that when that is used by Sony with Motionflow and 120 hz. technolgy it eliminated the need for 2x3 pull-down and thus produced a much smoother looking picture.
That is what I thought as well until it was confirmed by sound and vision that none of the models they tested (including the Toshiba REGZA, Philips Ambilight, Sony XBR4, and Samsung 71 series) use 5:5 pulldown technology, yet. It looks like we will have to wait till next model year to see real 5:5 pulldown.
Of the sets tested the Philips did the best, Toshiba did a good job, and the Sony and Samsung where the worst offenders. The problem is with the implementation of 120Hz. None of the sets have video processors capable of 5:5 pulldown, they can only frame double (or more accurately "Interpolate Frame") 60Hz to 120Hz. That means the tvs use the old scheme of 3:2 pull-down to get 60Hz (progressive) then they double to 120Hz (by some proprietary means).
Depending on what the 2nd frame consists of the artifact associated with the current 120Hz displays can be slight to drastic. The artifact doesn't have an official name but it looks jerky yet impossibly smooth. It makes everything look this way (if the producer or director wanted it to or not).
In the Sony the video processors give up during fast motion and the 120Hz doesn't work at all. The Samsung has trouble tracking extremely fast motion (i.e. a fast foot ball throw or kick). I had a customer return a Samsung 46" 71 series because, and we confirmed this, the foot ball would disappear! When the 120Hz was off the games looked like normal.
Ced
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jrm01
Newbie
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16. December 2007 @ 18:40 |
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Originally posted by diabolos:
@
That is what I thought as well until it was confirmed by sound and vision that none of the models they tested (including the Toshiba REGZA, Philips Ambilight, Sony XBR4, and Samsung 71 series) use 5:5 pulldown technology, yet. It looks like we will have to wait till next model year to see real 5:5 pulldown.
Ced
That's a little disappointing. I have never seen the XBR4 with fast action. We have it hooked up with BluRay (1080p/24) movie and I think the picture is the best I have ever seen on a LCD. The Samsung 71 looks great with BluRay also, but IMHO the change they made to the screen was the dumbest move I've ever seen. It now is just a competitor to it's own plasma cousin, not other LCDs.
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diabolos
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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16. December 2007 @ 21:53 |
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Like I said, the XBR4 is an awesome LCD. What I'm talking about is the 120Hz implementation. It never looks worse than the 60Hz version during fast motion (which is very good) and makes everything else super smooth. I'm not saying the Sony or Samsung look bad I'm just pointing out that its not 5:5 pull down with movies which I thought was the whole point. Anything from there about the picture quality is subjective. A lot of people like the super smooth playback, which does eliminate motion blur and increases the Black-Level/Contrast-Ratio, so by all means if you like the picture buy the TV.
The Samsung 71 has a much higher contrast ratio than most other LCDs by not having a matted screen (even with the glare). But, Samsung also has their 69 series that has a matted screen and 120Hz.
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. December 2007 @ 21:55
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wingsguy1
Newbie
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24. January 2008 @ 21:21 |
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Great post and thanks for all the info. Few more questions/Opinions appreciated!!!
Right on the fence in getting the Sony XBR4 46 inch LCD and the Panasonic 700 50 inch Plasma. Each within the same amount of money of no more than $120 (more for the Sony). I know it's a personal choice as far as picture brightness vs. "Real" color, etc. and I have taken the pro's and con's of each (i.e. brightness of room, etc.) into account. Both would work really.
I think I like the Sony picture a little better but I'm losing 4 inches from a 46" to a 50" and having trouble giving that up. My seating in the room 10 to 13 away by the way.
Also, are LCD's or Plasma's less likely to go bad...One more expensive to repair?
Any thoughts really appreciated....Help me make my decision!!!!!
Thanks!
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Junior Member
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24. January 2008 @ 23:28 |
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Plasmas are fading away. The first plasmas are actually leaking plasma and they can not be fixed. I would go with LCD
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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25. January 2008 @ 02:38 |
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Ced, You da Man!
"The flimsier the product,the higher the price"
Ferengi 82nd rule of aqusition
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NOLA_guy
Newbie
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26. January 2008 @ 14:50 |
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U guys are killing me, but in a good way, I just ordered the 52XBR4 and I have a Panasonic DMP-BD30K Blue Ray which is awesome, I'm playing it on my Sony KDL-46S2000 currently. I don't have any complaints on the blacks, whites, blues, yellows, greens, and reds! So why am I'm I updadting, well my country needs some stimulation and I feel the need to do my part, besides that Blue Ray is dying to run at 1080P, but I hate the idea I might not be getting the best bang for my buck?
My younger brother has the 40XBR5 and he loves it, I think it rocks also, he did have to play with the 120m setting for each inpute, but no problem, just glad Sony has the flexability. Hey if I'm making the wrong choice, then Consumer Reports and I have something in common since the 52XBR4 is their No.1 LCD with a rating of 79, now do they understand all the techno just introduced here.... maybe not, but their equipment test the picture, which is what I'm buying. Oh, there is no TV in the world that does not need tweeking after you get it in your home. So, all I can say is I hope to see the GIANTS kick som Patriot butt on my new Sony! Thanks for inpute all, it's all good.
Mark
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