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The Official PC building thread!
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Hamboner
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28. July 2004 @ 10:31 |
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Praetor once again thanx for the advice. Yes I do plan on overclocking, after I learn how to. :) I am new at this still. I agree I'd rather not go with the Prescott and save some money. So for over clocking I need to make sure I have good heatsinks and fans. An overclocking friendly motherboard, ram and cpu correct?
Jack of all traits, master of none.
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Praetor
Moderator
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28. July 2004 @ 15:19 |
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Yep that about sums it up :) ... oh and one more thing: patience :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. July 2004 @ 15:19
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Hamboner
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28. July 2004 @ 17:28 |
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Jack of all traits, master of none.
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4W4K3
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28. July 2004 @ 19:29 |
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weird...i didnt think soyo made cases. i had a soyo kt-333 dragon ultra platinum (dumb name) BEST looking mobo i ever had, all black and silver shiny colors all matched. too bad it was a piece of crap lol.
[COLOR=Green]AMD[/COLOR] Athlon XP-M 2600+ (2535MHz) 1.74V IQYHA
ABIT NF7-S Rev 2.0 (241*10.5) 1.8V - Pencil Mod
[COLOR=DimGray]OCZ[/COLOR]-EL 512MB PC-3200 DC-Platinum (483MHz) 2.85V 2.5-2-2-11
[B][COLOR=Red]RADEON[/CO
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superflex
Junior Member
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29. July 2004 @ 08:12 |
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Hey, I'm looking to build my own system (first time) and was wondering what the difference was between OEM and retail processors, besides the price. Is it warranty, lack of heat sink and fan, or what?
Also look over this list and tell me if I have some potential conflicts with this configuration, or I am just a fool.
I'd like to use an Athlon 3000 or 3200 Barton with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe mobo (I could use the dual LAN/wireless for my home network) along with 1 gig of PC3200 RAM (probably Kingston Value Ram) and a 80-120 gig Sata HD. Probably will use a Lian Li PV-1000 case (sweet!), Enermax 420 PSU, Swiftech HSF and some video card (not sure what I need - No gaming, just video ripping, some light CAD). Any suggestions on the video card?
Also, what is the difference between ECC vs. non ECC, registered vs unbuffered, and what is the CAS latency timing in memory. I'm not a OCer but might dabble in it later - once I feel more comfortable.
And for Praetor, my budget is abouut $800. Most of the items have been priced on NewEgg, ZipZoomFly, Mwave and eBay.
Could I do better with a P4 or AMD64 system system?
Am I wasting money on the Lian Li since it's an ATX case and BTX is coming soon?
Thanks in advance for the input.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. July 2004 @ 20:23
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superflex
Junior Member
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29. July 2004 @ 08:20 |
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Just FYI, I don't need a sound card. I already have a Xitel USB digital output (very nice for $100).
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EYEShurt
Member
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29. July 2004 @ 20:54 |
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Quote:
Hey, I'm looking to build my own system (first time) and was wondering what the difference was between OEM and retail processors, besides the price. Is it warranty, lack of heat sink and fan, or what?
OEM just means it doesnt come with a fancy box and no it doesnt come with a heatsink and fan if u get it OEM.
p4 lga775 540 (3.2ghz)
512mb ddr400 ram dual channel
gigabyte x600 xt pci-e
gigabyte ga 8i915p pro
200gb segate barrumundi hdd
16x DL -/+RW LITEON sohw-1633s
tsunami dream case (400w PSU)
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Hamboner
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30. July 2004 @ 08:32 |
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OK, I revamped my specs even further, primarily for cost-effectiveness. Please share your input.
-ENERMAX Case w/400W "CS-EN5171LBFS-B" $60 (very tough to pick the right power supply and a good case, open for advice still)
-ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe i865PE $110 (still up for advice, it should have a sound card to save money)
-Pentium 4 2.8 GHz 800MHz FSB HT $175 (3.0GHz is $40+ worth it?, Northwood or Prescott?)
-Geil 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-4200 $292 (cant figure out which one will be a good buy, from PC3200-4400, help!)
-ATI ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON 9600 XT $190 (think its a good combination of features and performance, is the price still too much?)
-Western Digital 74 Gb 10000rpm $161 (SATA best format?)
-Western Digital 200GB 7200RPM SATA $126
-ASUS CD-RW CRW-5232AS $39 (any brand you like more?)
-Pioneer DVD-RW DVR-107 $84 (any brand you like more?)
-Am I missing something important?
Total $1237
What would you change ? I eventually plan on OCing. Praetor I know you have given your input before, I would appreciate a bit more on these specs, thanx.
Jack of all traits, master of none.
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superflex
Junior Member
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30. July 2004 @ 20:20 |
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Nice system hamboner.
Since I'm cheap I think you could save a little bit-o-cash by dropping the 10k drive and downgrading on the RAM.
Something you can easily add later, if you find you need it.
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Praetor
Moderator
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30. July 2004 @ 22:35 |
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Quote:
I'd like to use an Athlon 3000 or 3200 Barton with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe mobo
On the budget you're on you're probably best off with a lower clocked XP and a good cooler :)
Quote:
Could I do better with a P4 or AMD64 system system?
Probably but not with that budget.
Quote:
Am I wasting money on the Lian Li since it's an ATX case and BTX is coming soon?
I wouldnt worry about BTX yet.
Quote:
Also, what is the difference between ECC vs. non ECC, registered vs unbuffered, and what is the CAS latency timing in memory
- ECC/Buffered is slower and more reliable and thus found on server-type systems,
- CAS (Column Access Speed) is the number of cycles it takes to access the specific column of a given memory bank, the lower the better: stick to 2 ot 2.5 :)
Quote:
Pentium 4 2.8 GHz 800MHz FSB HT $175 (3.0GHz is $40+ worth it?, Northwood or Prescott?)
P4C-2.8 (Northwood)
Quote:
Geil 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-4200 $292 (cant figure out which one will be a good buy, from PC3200-4400, help!)
The 4200 is good enough :)
Quote:
ATI ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON 9600 XT $190 (think its a good combination of features and performance, is the price still too much?)
Unless you speicifcally need video-in/tv functionality (which is why its so expensive), get the 9600Pro
Quote:
Western Digital 74 Gb 10000rpm $161 (SATA best format?)
A pretty penny for those drives. You sure you need that kinda performance?
Quote:
-ASUS CD-RW CRW-5232AS $39 (any brand you like more?)
-Pioneer DVD-RW DVR-107 $84 (any brand you like more?)
Awesome :)
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JSRife
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31. July 2004 @ 04:21 |
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To the Guy asking about the 9600XT for $190 , asking if it's a good deal? I saw in last weeks paper, Best Buy was selling a 9800 Pro for $189.99 , that is with rebates of course. Would take a 9800 Pro over a 9600XT all day though. You should check out Best Buy first :)
Jason Rife
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4W4K3
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31. July 2004 @ 05:38 |
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[COLOR=Green]AMD[/COLOR] Athlon XP-M 2600+ (2535MHz) 1.74V IQYHA
ABIT NF7-S Rev 2.0 (241*10.5) 1.8V - Pencil Mod
[COLOR=DimGray]OCZ[/COLOR]-EL 512MB PC-3200 DC-Platinum (483MHz) 2.85V 2.5-2-2-11
[B][COLOR=Red]RADEON[/CO
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. July 2004 @ 05:40
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Hamboner
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31. July 2004 @ 07:57 |
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Thanx Superflex, Preator, JSRife and 4W4K3 for the advice, I will do that.
Another question: I was looking at ATI ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON 9600 XT on newegg.com and I found some with 128MB and others with 256MB by different Manufacturers. I thought only ATI made these. But companies like GIGABYTE, ASUS and Sapphire make them as well. How is that? Do they just tweak these video cards? Can they be missing features?
Jack of all traits, master of none.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. July 2004 @ 07:59
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Praetor
Moderator
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31. July 2004 @ 08:54 |
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Quote:
Can they be missing features?
Odds are they'll have some additional features. There's no really significant difference between an ATi ATi card and say an MSI ATi card
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superflex
Junior Member
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31. July 2004 @ 20:12 |
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Thanks for the advice everyone
sf <;)
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JSRife
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1. August 2004 @ 04:42 |
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4w4k3....I checked out the prices on the ATI 9800 Pro and this is the price they are showning on NewEgg.com
ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL
$223.00
$189.99 is cheaper than $223.00 the last time I checked.
Other cards I have found on NewEgg.com
MSI ATI RX9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/S-Video, 8X AGP, Model "RX9800PRO-TD128" -RETAIL
$194.00
CONNECT3D ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL
$202.00
SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9800 PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -BULK
$198.00
I'd rather spend $189.99 at Best Buy...For an ATI Pro
Jason Rife
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JSRife
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1. August 2004 @ 04:47 |
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To be honest Best Buy will probably be out of stock with that ATI 9800 Pro card, they always seem to be out of stock with good video cards when they are on sale cheap. I'd go for the
MSI ATI RX9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/S-Video, 8X AGP, Model "RX9800PRO-TD128" -RETAIL
$194.00
On New Egg.com
But again, Check out Best Buy first, ya never know they might just have one in.
Jason Rife
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Praetor
Moderator
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1. August 2004 @ 18:50 |
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Quote:
$189.99 is cheaper than $223.00 the last time I checked.
You failed to realize the key word in his reply: average
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JSRife
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2. August 2004 @ 04:44 |
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Quote::::::4W4K3 (Newbie) 31 July 2004 09:38
newegg.com has them ALOT cheaper
That is all I needed to see KEYWORDS (ALOT CHEAPER)
Don't care what the average price is, when Best buy has it still cheaper than New Eggs (Cheapest)(Average) (Highest) Prices on the 9800 Pro. On New Egg the ATI 9800 Pro is $223.....The lower cards MSI, Saphire, and so on 9800 pro cards are still costing more than an ATI 9800 Pro from Best Buy...That is the point I was trying to make.
Jason Rife
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4W4K3
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2. August 2004 @ 06:14 |
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[COLOR=Green]AMD[/COLOR] Athlon XP-M 2600+ (2535MHz) 1.74V IQYHA
ABIT NF7-S Rev 2.0 (241*10.5) 1.8V - Pencil Mod
[COLOR=DimGray]OCZ[/COLOR]-EL 512MB PC-3200 DC-Platinum (483MHz) 2.85V 2.5-2-2-11
[B][COLOR=Red]RADEON[/CO
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. August 2004 @ 06:21
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JSRife
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2. August 2004 @ 06:36 |
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They don't advertise the price on the Best/Buy Website for some reason. It was in Last weeks or a week before's flyer that comes in the Sunday paper. I been trying to find the deal online and this is what I came up with.
broadband » Forums » PC gaming Tech » Best Radeon 9800 Pro ...... Actually, I saw this very interesting add from bestbuy: ATi radeon 9800 pro for 179.99 ... Keep in mind the Best Buy deal is $230 before rebates and you have ...
Go to this website.....www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,10818900~mode=flat......Copy and paste that site....
Jason Rife
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JSRife
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2. August 2004 @ 06:46 |
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Found another site talking about the cheap price of the card at Bestbuy.
http://www.bensbargains.net/ktalk/1090167571,17878,.shtml
9800pro $179 (rebates) At Best Buy -> Overclockers Club Forums
That's all I can come up with....I'm sure somebody on this site knows what I am talking about if they get the Sunday paper ever, and as computer Geekers I'm sure they look at the Best Buy Ad :)
Jason Rife
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Veeznutz
Newbie
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2. August 2004 @ 18:18 |
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Hey Praetor,
One quick question. I am planning on getting a Pentium 4 530 ? 3.0GHz ? 800MHz FSB ? 1MB Cache Hyper-Threading ? Socket 775. My questions is what mother board should I get? The P4 is a prescott by the way. Thanks for your help
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alyssaC
Junior Member
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2. August 2004 @ 19:12 |
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Hello Everyone,
I'm attempting to build my first PC and my plan is to use this machine as a TIVO box and more. The plan is to record my TV shows onto the new PC, then burn them to a dvd or cd then pop it into my dvd player and watch it on a TV. For the TV series that I really enjoy I plan to do some authoring and editing such that I gradually build a set archived on dvds that I can view whenever I like. Also the budget I have for the PC machine is around $500-700 dollars.
Okay with my plans laid out and the research I've done I hope the members here can help...especially mister Praetor...cause that guy seems to know alot about PC building and video editing based on the threads in the different forums I've browsed. He seems to give insight on almost everything.
I'll be nice and give fair warning
wArNiNg WARNING
This post will be quite lengthy and should anyone experience dizziness or headaches by all means...stop immediately...and take a break. With that warning given...let the spewing commence.
I'll start out by listing the components that I've found and reasons why I picked that one. Questions I have about a particular component will be asked later. Now onto the listings and reasoning for these parts.
List
A)Case/Tower for the PC
Okay I'll start off by giving credit and a thank you to member, jvwheel, who posted this link in the "The Official Budget-Conscious Dream Machine!" topic.
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=11-156-148&depa=0
This linked helped focus my search on the case I wanted to get.
1) What stood out was the 5 internal hard drives that had the hard drive connections facing towards the side panel, that's a first time I've seen this and is a must have since this will save my nails from breaking :)
2) The number of fans that it came with was impressive 2 front, 2 back, 1 side, and 1 on top. Power supply at 420W seems adequate enough for my needs...I hope.
3) I'll confess the clear side panel is so pretty and lights up at night. This case does shine the bling bling which is far more attractive than the medieval mono colored desktop that I have. Okay I'll stop being silly...for now.
I've spent a good two hours on this site
http://www.xoxide.com
I clicked the option to display all the cases section and I looked at each case bearing in mind the 3 characteristics that I listed above and my end result is that the case jvwheel listed was still the best that I found.
Of course there is one thing I don't like about the case jvwheel has listed but I'll save that until my questions section in this post.
Cost: ~ $100 USD
B) Motherboard
I realize this selection is really important since this would dictate on what other components I can have.
What I want is a MOBO that will support a
1) CPU that has 800MHz FSB
2) 4 slots that can support Dual-Channel DDR 400MHz
3) 5 PCI slots
4) have room to add at least 3 Hard Drives
5) built-in LAN
6) built-in audio
7) built-in video
Over clocking is something I don't plan to do. I plan to save money by having items #5-7 on the MOBO. This way I can get a decent capture card.
Future upgrades down the road I see are: RAM, Hard Drives, and other PCI devices.
I only know of one good MOBO company and that is Asus...I'm not fan for any products but Asus from what I read people seem to pick this company quite often.
I found the ASUS "P4R800-V Deluxe"
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-151&depa=0
Cost: ~ $100 USD
C) CPU
I've debated on the performance/price issue on what CPU (Intel or AMD) I should get and still remain within my overall budget. I'm thinking about the
Pentium® 4 2.4GHz (Northwood) CPU PROCESSOR - with Hyper threading
Socket 478 -800MHz Bus 512KB cache
I really wanted a FSB over 400MHz and the 1MB cache was simply more than what my budget would allow. I down sized for the 512KB cache instead. And this CPU supports my MOBO hopefully.
Cost: ~ $150 USD
D) RAM Memory
I want to take advantage of the Dual-Channel support my MOBO will support so I plan to go with a RAM 256MB (2X) DDR PC3200 dual strip kit (512MB total) of some sort.
Brands I've heard and seen in magazines are Kingston and Corsair.
Cost: ~ $100 USD
E) Hard Drive
I plan to work with video files often so for now a HDD that is above 100GB and is 7200 RPM would be good for now.
Serial ATA 150 is something I would consider as a second or third HDD down the road and when the prices go down.
Cost: ~ $75 USD
F) Optical Drive
I need to back up my shows to either dvds or cds so I picked.
NEC ND-2510A 8X Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=27-152-023&depa=1
This seems to support the dual layer discs as well. Something I might want to consider if the TV series get really long.
Cost: ~ $80 USD
G) Capture Card
I need to get a decent capture card and from what I read Hauppauge is a good brand.
WinTV-PVR-250 with Remote
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=15-116-602&depa=0
This model has a built-in hardware encoder which should save some stress on my machine.
Cost: ~ 125 $USD
Total of sections A-G: $730 USD
Note it would be nice to shave $100 USD off this estimate price. Open to suggestions of course.
Questions
A) Case/Tower
The only negative I see in the case member jvwheel suggested is it's size :(
I would much prefer to have a mid-size tower rather than a full-size tower simple because I think it's too big/heavy for me to pick up and move. The situation is I plan to keep this PC in the office room but when it's time for me to record or transfer VHS tapes I'm going to have to move this PC into my room. I see this happening maybe twice a week.
I know some you might suggest that I leave the PC in my room...but it's a matter of preference or maybe not to disrupt the feng shui I have in my room. I like to keep the tech stuff in the office along with the other work separate from my bedroom ;)
Q_A_1)
This brings to me my question I have on the case...can anyone recommend a mid-tower that has the 3 characteristics that I mentioned earlier?
B) Motherboard
The only concern I have here is that the Asus P4R800-V Deluxe I listed has two flaws.
Q_B_1)
The link I provided had reviews from customers who bought this MOBO and they all had the problem of the single SATA hard disk install is quite problematic. If I'm going for a HDD that is ATA100, 7200 RPM I should be okay right?
Q_B_2)
I read from one customer review that was posted by N/A on 6/17/2004 4:31:50 PM.
"The second annoying thing is that this mobo cannot use all RAM slots for PC3200 in dual channel. You've got to have PC2700 max for that. Although, you can use two slots for Dual PC3200."
This sounds like a major issue. If this is true then I would have to pass on this MOBO. Since I have 2 slots free which I had planned to insert two more DDR PC3200 strips later down the road.
If this is the case can anyone give recommendations on some other MOBOs that meet my requirements that I listed in the previous section?
Q_B_3)
This last question I had on the motherboard selection is how wise is it to pick a MOBO that has built-in video and sound? All I expect to do on my PC is view and listen to videos I stored on my PC and in some cases do some authoring to merge/edit video before burning to some optical media. Guess what I'm asking is am I expecting to much from a built-in video/sound on a MOBO?
C) CPU
Q_C_1)
I plan to buy a retail version of the CPU and I read that it comes with a heat sink and fan. I don't plan to do OC. I know the capture card that I plan to get will generate sufficient amounts of heat but I'll place a PCI slot fan blower near that. Should I be worried that the included heat sink/fan will be suffice to prevent over heating of my CPU?
Member Nephilim said this was a good CPU fan in the The Official Cooling Thread
Thermaltake Polo 735:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-106-042&depa=0
It seems that it's overkill for my needs but then again what do I know about CPUs over heating hence I'm asking the pros :)
Q_C_2)
How about thermal glue? If I need it what kind there are several types/brands I saw last weekend and how much should I buy?
D) RAM Memory
Q_D_1)
This question is really about if I got my info right about dual channeling with RAM, CPU, and MOBO. If my MOBO and CPU supports 800MHz FSB and if I get 2 sticks of DDR 3200 (400 MHz), do those two sticks of RAM equal 800 MHz which makes my system run in it's peak form?
Q_D_2)
I was looking at the Kingston dual kits. I found two of them.
Kingston ValueRAM Dual Kits 184 Pin 512MB(256MBx2) DDR PC-3200
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-413&depa=1
Kingston HyperX Series Dual Kits 184 Pin 512MB(256MBx2) DDR PC-3200
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-144-113&depa=1
I remember Praetor in another topic, discussing RAM and saying something about 2-3-2-6-1T or some funny combination of numbers like that. Low and behold the Kingston HyperX series have these strange numbers.
To top it off the Corsair brand have these similar kits.
Can someone please explain RAM containing these 2-3-2-6-1T numbers and how they are better than the other kind besides "they just are" kind of answer? Meaning what is the logic behind this scheme?
Which brand should I get?
E) Hard Drive
Q_E_1)
I'm at lost when it comes to the specification on my MOBO description:
IDE: 2 x UltraDMA 100 by South Bridge up to 4 devices
1 x UltraDMA 133 by SiS 180 RAID Controller supports two hard drives
Serial ATA : 2 x Serial ATA by SiS 180 RAID Controller
RAID: SATA & ATA 133 RAID 0/1/0+1
Can some please explain how these three categories relate to the HDD setup I can have in my PC or when I plan to upgrade?
Is it just a matter of buying the right type of HDD, connecting it into the right slot on my MOBO, and letting the MOBO detect it?
I plan to start of with a 100+ GB, 7200 RPM HDD, from there what recommendations would be good as a 2nd and 3rd HDD purchased?
G) Capture Card
Is there any other features I should be worried about that the card I listed up above doesn't offer for the projects that I will be doing?
I know this is a long post but I didn't want to be a member posting "OMG I want to build a new PC and it has to be cheap please help" kind of post. Just to recap the way I structured this post was
1) State my goal of this new PC
2) Define a list on what parts I have interest in and reasons why
3) Questions on parts I'm not sure of and would like some advice in.
I've been researching for the last 2 months. This site seems very informative and would appreciate any advice members may have.
Thanks
P. S. If it isn't too much to ask...please be gentle it's my first post on this forum and my first PC that I plan to build ;)
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superflex
Junior Member
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2. August 2004 @ 19:44 |
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OMFG
My head's spinnin' from that post.
Slow down Nellie!
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