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13. January 2008 @ 15:34 |
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Ok i am thinking of installing my first network in my Dads factory. He has 11 computers now and he will be getting a server computer he is leaving all the job to me what ever i say he should get he will get it. Can you guys help me out on where to start from ? What server he should get amd what hub he should get and yes i am thinking of installing a windows 2003 server is there anything better ? also the server must give access to internet to all the other computer.
I appriciate the help already.
Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz, Radeon X700Pro 256MB PCIe, SuperMicro P4SCI ATX Motherboard, 800MHz FSB, 2 x 2GB DDR2800, GB LAN, 2 x WD 250GB SATA2 Hard Drives, Wireless Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse, LG 19" LCD.
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13. January 2008 @ 16:50 |
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Ok..you need to think about the size of your dads factory and plan out how much cabling you need in advance so you arent always going back and forth buying cables. I reccomend a dual core server, but I am not sure what sort of servers are going around these days. Server 2003 is as good as your going to get unless you know Linux and are confident with hosting on it..(only IMO) You might be better off also buying a 24 port switch + router so if you needed to add more computers to the network you can do so easily without spending money on upgrading your gear.
Btw, other people probably have better advice than mine, so take mine as a very rough outline. =]
PC Specs:
E6750 C2D @ 2.66GHZ 1333FSB
1GB Corsair Value Ram 667MHZ/Transcend 2GB 800MHZ
EAH4650 512 Onboard
2x 250G Seagate SATA
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phill2000
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. January 2008 @ 17:16 |
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Well to start with, I wouldn't recommend anything less than a gigabit switch, with at least 24 ports. Main reasons for this are that most PC's are coming with Gigabit LAN these days, so for you to reach 125 MB/s throughput (file transfer rate, not 1000Mb/s raw data transfer rate), and you will definately notice the difference on a gigabit network. I would recommend the Linksys SR224G. You can pick these bad boys up for about £40-50 (about $80-$100, but this is a foreigncy conversion price, you americans tend to get components cheaper than us brits!). It also has a fibre-channel facility to allow you to connect it to fibre-channel SAS / RAID etc.
A would also highly recommend getting a patch panel to make swapping cabling over. These can seriously make swapping cables over quickly, as long as all your LAN points are numbered, and your switch ports are too, you can easily switch cables quickly and easily. And cabling, use only Cat5e or Cat6 cabling if you go for the Gigabit network.
Once you have your infrastructure selected, you can decide on how you want your network to function.
I would personally fully utilise the server for whatever functions it has! If your gonna buy one, then use it well, unlike most networks where I have seen individual servers used for file serving, mail serving and even one used only for burning optical media!!!
I personally like the features Server 2003 features, I use one at work configured as a mail server, central storage for peoples documents etc, a file server as well as privilege management. I also use it to store and process the companies database applications on. These are large databases and does require a fair bit of processing power. The mail server is a resource hungry beast as well. I also use it as a print server, so that any pc can print to any printer in the building. It also hosts their own website, which attracts up to 2,000 hits a day (not huge but substantial).
As the server needs to perform I would recomend the following at least.
Intel Xeon Dual / Quad Core setup.
4Gb RAM (MINIMUM!!!!)
2x Gigabit LAN ports. (1 to connect to internet and 1 to connect to rest of network via switch).
Windows Server 2003.
Storage & backup facility (see later points)
So me personally would recommend a server utilising 2003 as you can see what benefits it brings.
Depending on what you want to provide security wise, you could simply utilise the security on the router of whatever incoming internet connection you decide on. I used to have a 20mb cable service from a local ISP, and I used a router (Linksys WR54G) and plugged this into the server (which asigns all the I.P's and handles DHCP etc). The router provided adequate security with it's inbuilt firewall, and will suffice for most networks.
We eventually upgraded to a SonicWALL SSL-VPN 2000. This bad boy cost the best of £1,100 (again about $2,200) but boy was it worth it. It allowed us to not only have a firewall, but was ultra secure, and also gave us a hardware VPN. This allowed people who were out of the building (i.e. directors / sales rep's on laptops abroad) to connect to the network remotely and use all the features as if they were plugged in to the office. They could access internal mail, access confidential documents, all in the knowledge it was done so securely and safely. It also let us use a DMZ.
This may seem overboard but its definately worth considering. How much do you value your companys data and information?...
Which brings me to my final point of data backup. Obviously you could end up with a situation where you could not function 100% as a company if something happened (and believe me it will). So the best thing to do is work out what you HAVE to ensure you keep.
In my current job its mainly users documents, email profiles, company database that we would need to continue. If we lost everything else we could still get back to how we were. For example software isn't a neccessity, as you will have the original CD's to install them again, sure its boring but easy, but could you loose your main database??
For this reason I have 3 safety nets in place. Firstly I store everything on the server. This is how people access there work through this. The server has 2x RAID arrays internal (again hardware not software RAID). The first is a 2x Maxtor Atlas 15K SCSI 73Gb RAID0 array. This gives 146Gb of storage on the server, which is more than enough for software, database, user documents and the mail server. It also gives very rapid data transfer so no one will be waiting for there documents to come through. It also has a 5x SATAII Seagate 500MB RAID5 array, which provides 2x terabytes of storage (with RAID5 redunancy). This provides the 2nd copy of our backups. It backsup the servers main storage and does incremental backups at 12:00 am each day.
It also has a tape drive storage facility providing the 3rd backup, which backs up the most recent file changes on the server, aswell as the most important documents. These tapes are changed daily and kept in a fire proof safe on site.
The fourth backup is an offsite storage facility. This is basically a site online which we upload our important documents and database up to each evening so that even if the entire pc setup and safe was destroyed, we would have a final backup to restore from.
You could also add a NAS system later if you wished.
Well I have covered a lot. If you need info on something more specific let me know ;o)
(+[__]%) - 2.00 > 2.71 > 1.50 > 3.53-m33-4
NasLite - 1TB Total NFS (RAID 1+0)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2008 @ 21:53
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13. January 2008 @ 17:22 |
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I think you showed me up. Lol -.^
PC Specs:
E6750 C2D @ 2.66GHZ 1333FSB
1GB Corsair Value Ram 667MHZ/Transcend 2GB 800MHZ
EAH4650 512 Onboard
2x 250G Seagate SATA
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phill2000
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. January 2008 @ 17:28 |
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Originally posted by DedShadow:
I think you showed me up. Lol -.^
Lol. Wasn't the intention I assure you mate! Just like sharing and helping where I can.
I had a lot of problems figuring it all out myself and what was best to do. I guess it was down to all the research I have done previously and gradually upgrading the network and infrastructure.
Just thought i'd share my knowledge with everyone ;o)
(+[__]%) - 2.00 > 2.71 > 1.50 > 3.53-m33-4
NasLite - 1TB Total NFS (RAID 1+0)
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14. January 2008 @ 00:29 |
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Yeah lol wasnt any issue haha. I just saw this loooooooooong post and looked at mine again and had a good laugh. Yours is extremely detailed and you really know what your talking about. Good stuff mate =]
PC Specs:
E6750 C2D @ 2.66GHZ 1333FSB
1GB Corsair Value Ram 667MHZ/Transcend 2GB 800MHZ
EAH4650 512 Onboard
2x 250G Seagate SATA
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14. January 2008 @ 04:35 |
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WOW this is great thanks a lot phill2000. Ok the first thing is that the stock i can get is limited becouse i leave in Botswana and if i order anything from ebay it will be too slow to come. The switches i can get are only dlink. How is this DGS-1016D ? If it isnt good than which dlink switch is good?
Tha patch panel will be here by next week monday.
The cabling was already there when the factory was bought only the cables need to be checked if they work fine not a problem!
I will get the Windows 2003 server cd but there are three types: Windows Server 2003 Standard with 5 Cals
small Business Server 2003 Standard with 5 Cals
Small Business Server 2003 Premium Edition with 5 Cals which one must i get ?
Basically all the server must do is what your companys server does its just that it does not have a web site.
The information is very very important as everything for the company will be there. I think backup system will be fine.
I also want to give different access to the different computers dont know what i need to get for that?
Server:
motherboard: X7DVL-E
Chassi: CSE-733TQ-645B
Main harddrive: WD CAVIAR RAID EDITION 500GB
Processor: Intel Xeon Quad-Core (Clovertown - 5320) 1.86GHz, 8M L2 Cache
Ram: 6 x APACER 1024MB FBD DDR II 667MHZ
How is that ? What else do i need in the server any add on cards ? i dont know what the modem is i will tell you later for that.
I will get a separate firewall and everything but which one should i get it must be dlink ?
Thanks very much for the help again
Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz, Radeon X700Pro 256MB PCIe, SuperMicro P4SCI ATX Motherboard, 800MHz FSB, 2 x 2GB DDR2800, GB LAN, 2 x WD 250GB SATA2 Hard Drives, Wireless Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse, LG 19" LCD.
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14. January 2008 @ 04:37 |
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The rig looks really good for a server box. About the router though..I wouldnt really reccomend Dlink at all after my recent debacle with their routers and such. I would wait for stock IMO.
PC Specs:
E6750 C2D @ 2.66GHZ 1333FSB
1GB Corsair Value Ram 667MHZ/Transcend 2GB 800MHZ
EAH4650 512 Onboard
2x 250G Seagate SATA
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14. January 2008 @ 04:49 |
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Well maybe it is true but i can not wait a month for it to come. Everybody is using it here i will ask around which one is the better one from dlink switches. Right now non of the data is protected and works are using some of the computers and bringing viruses from the internet its a real mess there. Once i get the whole network working then i can order a good switch from the internet and wait for it to come. Then i can sell the dlink switch to someone else.
Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz, Radeon X700Pro 256MB PCIe, SuperMicro P4SCI ATX Motherboard, 800MHz FSB, 2 x 2GB DDR2800, GB LAN, 2 x WD 250GB SATA2 Hard Drives, Wireless Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse, LG 19" LCD.
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14. January 2008 @ 04:51 |
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Hmm fair enough.. I mean their bigger switches/routers are probably better than their small products..but if you need this network up ASAP then its gonna have to do hah.
PC Specs:
E6750 C2D @ 2.66GHZ 1333FSB
1GB Corsair Value Ram 667MHZ/Transcend 2GB 800MHZ
EAH4650 512 Onboard
2x 250G Seagate SATA
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14. January 2008 @ 07:17 |
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Oh yes and i must look for a managed switch right ?
Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz, Radeon X700Pro 256MB PCIe, SuperMicro P4SCI ATX Motherboard, 800MHz FSB, 2 x 2GB DDR2800, GB LAN, 2 x WD 250GB SATA2 Hard Drives, Wireless Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse, LG 19" LCD.
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phill2000
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14. January 2008 @ 14:37 |
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Regarding the router, I personally would recommend Linksys simply as they use Cisqo software (One of the better networking / routing companies). You can also reflash the onboard firmware and end up with a very powerfull router, utilising VPN with a Firewall.
With regards to the DGS-1016D, it's a fairly good switch, it will do you well, but remember it only has 16 ports. you have 11x client PC's, 1x Server taking up 12 ports already, leaving only 4 ports for network expansion. Something to consider!!
With regards to the existing cable, double check what kind it is. If it is Cat5 you will only be able to run your network at 100Mb/s and not 1000Mb/s which means your running at only 10% of the speed you could be! Cat5e / Cat6 is what you will need.
The only thing I would look at is the main hard drive. If you have 11x clients all accessing the server at the same time for mail, then you may have an issue. Simply because of the data transfer from disk to PC may cause a severe bottleneck in the system. This could happen multiple times in a day! I personally would always go for a small hardware RAID0 array utilising SCSI disks. Believe me the speed is unbelievable! People say that 2x SATA Raptors in RAID are close in performance to SCSI disks, but 2x SCSI's in RAID are lightening fast!
As for the difference in versions of server 2003, if you click here you will see a comparison of the features each provides.
With regards to server 2003, make sure you purchase the 64bit version to ensure you are able to make use of the 6GB RAM (32 bit version only allows up to 4GB).
Anything else let me know ;o)
(+[__]%) - 2.00 > 2.71 > 1.50 > 3.53-m33-4
NasLite - 1TB Total NFS (RAID 1+0)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. January 2008 @ 14:39
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14. January 2008 @ 16:54 |
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Okay how is this hard drive Seagate Cheetah 73.4GB ? or do i need a bigger one ? well i guess i will put 250GB Sata2 harddrive as a second one right ? And also will my motherboard support it and my case ?
I will get the MICROSOFT WINDOWS 2003 R2 SERVER W/ 5 CALS guess that will do the work.
What about the DGS-1016D its an unmanaged switch right is that ok ? or is the DGS-3024 managed switch better all thought the price is about 3 times higher ?
What do i need to have to do a incremental backups at 12:00 am each day and also to do another back up every week on dvds ?
For the Firewall it is very limited for me i can only choose from does 3 : DFL-210
DFL-800
DFL-M510
and for the VPN this is what i can get DS-605 how are these ?
Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz, Radeon X700Pro 256MB PCIe, SuperMicro P4SCI ATX Motherboard, 800MHz FSB, 2 x 2GB DDR2800, GB LAN, 2 x WD 250GB SATA2 Hard Drives, Wireless Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse, LG 19" LCD.
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phill2000
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14. January 2008 @ 19:25 |
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Originally posted by iani_2006:
Okay how is this hard drive Seagate Cheetah 73.4GB ? or do i need a bigger one ? well i guess i will put 250GB Sata2 harddrive as a second one right ? And also will my motherboard support it and my case ?
You could easily have a good setup with the case and motherboard you have chosen. The case has 4x hot swap drive bays so i would fill these with 2x500GB SATA drives (Western Digital are a good choice) and have these using the RAID feature on the motherboard in a RAID 1 configuration. This will give you 500GB of mirrored storage. Use the other 2x bays for 2x SCSI drives in RAID 0 (this will be them main array that your server will use as its "C: Drive". This will provide you with double the size of whatever drive you choose. I personally would choose the Maxtor Atlas range. Frightenengly fast!
This will give you 4x drives with 146Gb fast access operational storage, and 500gb of secure, redundant, mirrored storage.
Also on this you will need a SCSI controller, and I reccomend the LSI 21320 Dual-Channel Ultra320 SCSI card. This will allow you to use the SCSI drives and provide the RAID we need.
Good choice of motherboard, plenty of upgrade options, and 2x Gigabit LAN ports.
Originally posted by iani_2006:
I will get the MICROSOFT WINDOWS 2003 R2 SERVER W/ 5 CALS guess that will do the work.
It would do the job, however 5 CAL's won't do for your network ;o) You'd need another 6, but I'm sure you can figure out how to get them ;o)
Originally posted by iani_2006:
What about the DGS-1016D its an unmanaged switch right is that ok ? or is the DGS-3024 managed switch better all thought the price is about 3 times higher ?
To be honest you don't really need a managed switch for your network size. They are used so you can fully control what ports are permitted to speak to other ports. For example if you had a file server, main server, web server and mail server, on a managed switch if someone hacks your web server, you can prevent them getting deeper into the network and gain access to your other servers. The more servers you have on the network, the more points of access you have into the network. As there is only one point of entry to your network, you don't need something like this, and an unmanaged switch will be sufficient.
Originally posted by iani_2006:
What do i need to have to do a incremental backups at 12:00 am each day and also to do another back up every week on dvds ?
As for DVD's I wouldn't rely on them for a secure backup that will last. I have CD-RW's & DVD-RW's I burnt 2 years ago where the reflective layer is flaking away. And these have been kept in a wallet in a safe and used once since being made. Not used / scratched at all and practically perfect in every other way. I wouldn't rely on them at all.
If you have the RAID0 array do a full backup on first install, then an incremental backup at 12:00am (very little if any use at 12:00am in the morning). This will mean it backs up everything, but only overwrites the files that have recently changed on to the backup.
I would recommend that you get a tape drive to perform your 2nd copy of your backup. If you get 5 tapes you could easily backup the entire contents of your RAID0 SCSI array, changing a tape a day, you would have a full backup spanned over the 5 tapes.
Originally posted by iani_2006:
For the Firewall it is very limited for me i can only choose from does 3 : DFL-210
DFL-800
DFL-M510
and for the VPN this is what i can get DS-605 how are these ?
They are all great choices. and the DS-605 is good as a client for your VPN provided by the DFL-210. Thats what I'd go for.
Seems your nearly there now mate. :o)
(+[__]%) - 2.00 > 2.71 > 1.50 > 3.53-m33-4
NasLite - 1TB Total NFS (RAID 1+0)
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15. January 2008 @ 02:53 |
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Yes the server is almost ready only the hard drives and the VGA are left i so that some company has SAS drives are they the same as the SCSI ones if the SAS one is the same then i guess i dont need a controller right ?
I am thinking of putting the Radeon X700 Pro video card is it ok or is to big ?
Could you explain to me again how the 500GB x 2 gives you a 500GB of mirrored storage ?
And for the tape drives i can not find them here what can i substitute it with ?
The server will be giving different access to different computers for example one of the computer may not be allowed to connect to the internet, another one must not access any data from the server and my dads computer must have almost full access to the server is any special software or hardware required for that ?
Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz, Radeon X700Pro 256MB PCIe, SuperMicro P4SCI ATX Motherboard, 800MHz FSB, 2 x 2GB DDR2800, GB LAN, 2 x WD 250GB SATA2 Hard Drives, Wireless Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse, LG 19" LCD.
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phill2000
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15. January 2008 @ 16:18 |
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Originally posted by iani_2006:
Yes the server is almost ready only the hard drives and the VGA are left i so that some company has SAS drives are they the same as the SCSI ones if the SAS one is the same then i guess i dont need a controller right ?
SAS can support both SATA and SCSI, you just need to check with your supplier to ensure that the motherboard / case will run all 4x drives with no extra hardware etc.
Originally posted by iani_2006:
I am thinking of putting the Radeon X700 Pro video card is it ok or is to big ?
The motherboard has onboard graphics, and would suggest using that. At the end of the day you probably wont need to do anything to the server once its being used, and mine at work doesnt even have a monitor. I use RealVNC to access the server remotely and its desktop appears on my pc so I can control it from anywhere. For this reason we need no monitor so it doesn't use one.
Originally posted by iani_2006:
Could you explain to me again how the 500GB x 2 gives you a 500GB of mirrored storage ?
when you run a RAID1 configuration, the raid array consists of 2x identical drives used together. Whatever is read / written to one, is also done to the other. This creates a identical "mirror" copy on both drives. This means if one of the drives goes down, your other can still provide you with your information. The system tells you the drive has failed and being hot swap drives you can pull it out, replace it (without turning off the server / rebooting), and have the system rebuild the array (copy all files back to new drive so you have your mirror again).
RAID0 will be good to start as an introduction to RAID, and eventually you may opt for a RAID5 array. In these types you have more than 2 identical drives, and it splits all data across 2 of the drives and uses the third for parity checking. This means any drive can fail and you can still retain all data. You can expand the array bit by bit, so as storage needs increase so can your array.
Originally posted by iani_2006:
And for the tape drives i can not find them here what can i substitute it with ?
That all depends on how much you need to store. You can create a backup on portable laptop drives and keep them stored somewhere safe. I used this method for about 3 years and did me well until i decided to change to tapes.
Originally posted by iani_2006:
The server will be giving different access to different computers for example one of the computer may not be allowed to connect to the internet
this can easily be done, on the client PC, just change the default DNS or even block commonly used ports, or even use user rights management to allow programs to update over the net (like windows updates, anti-virus updates etc), but prevent using applications like MSN, Internet Explorer, or FireFox etc.
Originally posted by iani_2006:
another one must not access any data from the server
Not quite sure why you wouldn't want a networked PC to not communicate with the server?
Originally posted by iani_2006:
and my dads computer must have almost full access to the server is any special software or hardware required for that ?
Nope, like I said I reccomend RealVNC if he wants full access to use it etc.
Anything else let me know!
(+[__]%) - 2.00 > 2.71 > 1.50 > 3.53-m33-4
NasLite - 1TB Total NFS (RAID 1+0)
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15. January 2008 @ 18:09 |
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Ok this is the final setup for my server:
Supermicro SC733TQ Tower Server chassis
Intel Xeon Quad-Core (Clovertown - 5320) 1.86GHz, 8M L2 Cache
6 x APACER 1024MB FBD DDR II 667MHZ
2 x WD CAVIAR RAID EDITION 320GB 7200RPM 16MB SATAII
2 x Seagate Cheetah 73.4GB
LSI 68Pin U320 SCSI Controlle
MICROSOFT WINDOWS 2003 R2 SERVER W/ 5 CALS
Supermicro X7DAL-E+ Workstation / Server Board
And these are the specification of the server board:
Dual Intel 64-Bit "Woodcrest/Clovertown" Xeon Support (667/1066/1333MHZ FSB)
Intel 5000X Chipset
6 x DDR2 Fully Buffered DIMM (FBD) Slots (Min. 1GB - Max. 16GB)
DDR2 FBD RAM Modules Only (populate in pairs)
Dual Intel Gigabit LAN
Integrated 6Port Serial ATA II Controller (RAID 0,1,5,10)
PCI-Express X16 Slot - NO INTEGRATED VGA
7.1 Channel HD Audio
Super Doctor III Management software
So i guess i will need a video card or is this info not true ?
Please tell me if i have missed anything on the server ?
I do not have control over about 5 computers so i dont know what workers will do, which web sites they will go to and if they are going to use any IM softwares. These 5 computers must have a limited places to go example yahoo hotmail and such basic and secure web sites. Althought they are going to have an antivirus system and a firewall software. By the way the other computers can stay with their Windows XP Pro right or must i change them ?
Thanks a lot this is a great expirience for me althought it is not as simple as i thought. Oh and i must go and pick up the patch panel i have gotten the cheapest one it doesnt have fans nothing must i put a fan inside ?
Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz, Radeon X700Pro 256MB PCIe, SuperMicro P4SCI ATX Motherboard, 800MHz FSB, 2 x 2GB DDR2800, GB LAN, 2 x WD 250GB SATA2 Hard Drives, Wireless Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse, LG 19" LCD.
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24. January 2008 @ 08:44 |
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Server is almost ready, I bought almost all the parts except the SCSI hard drives must i buy 2 or 1 is ok ?
Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz, Radeon X700Pro 256MB PCIe, SuperMicro P4SCI ATX Motherboard, 800MHz FSB, 2 x 2GB DDR2800, GB LAN, 2 x WD 250GB SATA2 Hard Drives, Wireless Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse, LG 19" LCD.
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24. January 2008 @ 09:17 |
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Oh and sorry for the missunderstanding it does have an onboard VGA ATI ES1000 :).
Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz, Radeon X700Pro 256MB PCIe, SuperMicro P4SCI ATX Motherboard, 800MHz FSB, 2 x 2GB DDR2800, GB LAN, 2 x WD 250GB SATA2 Hard Drives, Wireless Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse, LG 19" LCD.
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