|
Do I need HDMI 1.3 for switchover
|
|
Member
|
20. March 2008 @ 12:24 |
Link to this message
|
I recently upgraded my TV, got cable, and got a home theater system. The price of cables at Circuit City stunned me. I was also told that I would need to upgrade to a certified HDMI 1.3 or else I would not be able to watch certain channels due to the copy protection that will be available for Hollywood. Do I need to get certified HDMI 1.3 to watch HD or other channels after the switch? Will my DVR be able to record even the copy protected programs?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2008 @ 12:28
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
|
goodswipe
Suspended permanently
|
20. March 2008 @ 12:33 |
Link to this message
|
Quote:
The price of cables at Circuit City stunned me.
All HDMI cables are the same, don't be fooled! A 12 dollar cable will perform just as well as a 100 dollar cable. Check out http://www.monoprice.com edited by ddp for some cheaper alternatives.
Quote:
I was also told that I would need to upgrade to HDMI 1.3 or else I would not be able to watch certain channels due to the copy protection that will be available for Hollywood.
Was just discussing this with another member here on aD. Yes, you do want to get an HDMI cable with a rating of 1.3 to take advantage of HDMI. Not being able to watch certain channels? I'v never heard of that. There is a thing called ICT or Image Constraint Token, that's probably what you are referring to. This is something that has to do with non-HDCP compliant displays. It basically sets off a flag if the user does not have a compliant HDCP monitor or not using an HDMI(using component)cable and your image is either not displayed, or is downscaled to a non hi-def image. I have yet to see this implemented either. According to juankerr, it won't happen till maybe around 2012.
Quote:
Will my DVR be able to record event he copy protected programs?
It should, as long as you are using an HDMI cable and have all HDCP compliant hardware.
Quote:
Do I need to get certified HDMI 1.3
Yes, you want a certified HDMI cable. All makers of HDMI products have to go through the same tests to get their cables certified. If you buy one that's not certified, you might not get the best quality out of the cable. Anything that has the HDMI logo on it, means that it is certified.
I highly suggest reading some of the below links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Definition_Multimedia_Interface
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Constraint_Token
Good luck and don't always listen to what those people at CC tell you. Do a little research first. If they weren't trying to hoodwink you they would have informed you about cheaper cables and such.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2008 @ 13:48
|
Senior Member
|
20. March 2008 @ 14:19 |
Link to this message
|
A little correction here. An item displaying the HDMI logo means it contains a trademarked item and must display the logo to adhere to the trade mark. The basic item being the connection.
There are mutiple levels of HDMI compliance:
The initial HDMI 1.0 specification was released in December 2002.
Version 1.1 was released in May 2004.
Version 1.2 was released in August of 2005.
Version 1.2a was released in December of 2005.
Version 1.3 was released in June of 2006.
All of these generally deal with increased bandwidth for passing more information at the same time, with the 1.3a standard passing the most information(i.e., fastest and best).
Here's a good linky for reading about the difference.
Goodswipe is correct about the price and going to http://www.monoprice.com for the best deal. For heaven's sake, don't buy Monster! They work fine, but why pay quadruple the price? (I'm speaking from experience here, I found goodswipe's advice too late). Oh, interesting thing about the Monster cables, as far as I've looked, nowhere do they say they are HDMI 1.3 certified. I know for a fact that the Monster HDMI 700 does not conform to the 1.3 version standard. It's only passes 4.95 GBps and is only 8 bit color, 1.3 certification requires 10.2 Gbps and upto 16 bit color. The Monster 800 "only" passes 12 bit color so it doesn't conform to the 1.3 standard either.
I'd say definitely get a cable/cables that say HDMI 1.3 or 1.3a certified, it's always best to have too much then too little in the beginning. You never know when you will upgrade again.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2008 @ 14:24
|
|
goodswipe
Suspended permanently
|
20. March 2008 @ 15:24 |
Link to this message
|
Let me clear a few things up here as well. ;)
Quote:
A little correction here. An item displaying the HDMI logo means it contains a trademarked item and must display the logo to adhere to the trade mark. The basic item being the connection.
Yea, and to get that name, manufacturers have to adhere to the HDMI Licensing, LLC groups testing procedures.
Quote:
The HDMI Licensing organization has taken steps toward changing this situation, and has inserted into the Compliance Testing Specification some language indicating that a cable cannot be deemed "compliant" and therefore eligible to bear the HDMI trademarks unless it's been shown compliant up to the length being sold.
There are two categories that one must pass in order to be certified:
1) Cables must pass 720p and 1080i signals at 8-bit color.
2) Cables must be able to pass information at 3.4 Gbit/s per channel.
Quote:
1.3 certification requires 10.2 Gbps and upto 16 bit color.
They have not required any manufacturer to pass anything higher then 12-bit color. That 10.2 Gbps you talk of are inflated numbers. It's just the bandwidth multiplied by the three color channels, RGB. Yes, they are "suppose" to have support for 16 bit color, but there is no enforcement. Basically a company can get away with just passing the requirements in the first category. Passing the requirements in the second category requires the company to over design their product and who wants to do that?
|
Member
|
20. March 2008 @ 15:25 |
Link to this message
|
Wow that is a big difference. Thanks for the help. As I was checking out yesterday the cashier was the one that told me that cables had to be certified as 1.3 to work on HD channels after the digital switch. At least the channels that have the ICT. I have a cheaper off brand TV that probably does not require 1.3 anyway. It does not play 1080p only up to 1080i. I think I will be ordering a cable and returning the 50$ Circuit City brand cable I purchased.
|
|
goodswipe
Suspended permanently
|
20. March 2008 @ 15:28 |
Link to this message
|
The only difference between 1080i and 1080p is that with 1080p you are seeing all the image at once at 12 bits of color. With 1080i, you are seeing images at different times at 8 bits of color. What does all this mean you ask? Nothing, the human eye can not tell the difference between the two!
Quote:
I think I will be ordering a cable and returning the 50$ Circuit City brand cable I purchased.
Yea, I believe this should be outlawed. I love to go into BB, CC, or FRYs and "inform" people of this. I was in FRYs just the other day, picking up some computer parts and saw I man walking to the checkout lane with a "Super Heavy Duty Triple Gold Plated - Diamond Encrusted" HDMI cable. I told him to take that crap back and go pick up a set of cables in one of those plastic bags. The damn box they come in is half of what you're paying for. So yea, don't pay for those expensive cables. And if your doing a short run, there's really no reason to pay for them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2008 @ 15:44
|
|
diabolos
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
23. March 2008 @ 13:21 |
Link to this message
|
@ saulat_99, (and everyone else that reads this)
The digital switch has nothing to do with HDMI!
That CC sales person has no idea what they are talking about. They have mixed the issues of HDMI compliance with the February 17, 2009 DTV switch-over (U.S. only) and the Blu-Ray Disc Image Constraint Token (ICT). Furthermore if you have a TV provider (i.e. Cable service, Satellite, or FIOS) you are unaffected by the switchover. The only people affected are people and devices that use antennas as there sole video input. As stated before The ICT is built into Blu-Ray although not in use yet. The ICT has nothing to due with HDMI 1.3. ICT deals with HDCP which is supported by HDMI 1.1 and later versions.
What is the DTV switch-over (U.S.)
http://www.dtv.gov/
Quote:
All HDMI cables are the same, don't be fooled! A 12 dollar cable will perform just as well as a 100 dollar cable.
Untrue. There is a such thing as a bad HDMI cable. Digital broadcasts are not perfect and can suffer from artifacts due to high error rates that rob the viewer of fine detail and solid playback. I'm not saying that HDMI cables should be expensive but there is a lot of crap out there regardless of price point. It is as easy to sell cheaply made cables at high prices just as easily as it is to sell well made cables for low prices. Also there is no such thing as an HDMI 1.3 cable exactly. It may be Simplay certified but that means its well built and should be compatible with all other HDMI equipment. HDMI cables vary in bandwith but the actual features used over them depend on the two components connected by the cable.
Monster Cable: Noel Lee on HDMI and Speed
http://www.monstercable.com/HDMI/advanced_for_hdmi.asp
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. March 2008 @ 01:15
|
|
goodswipe
Suspended permanently
|
24. March 2008 @ 11:23 |
Link to this message
|
Quote:
The ICT has nothing to due with HDMI 1.3.
How does this have nothing to do with HDMI 1.3? This has everything to do with HDMI or HDMI 1.3. HDCP, ICT, and HDMI go hand in hand. Encryption of the actual data sent over HDMI. When ICT is implemented, if the user is using an analog connection and not a digital connection, like with HDMI, then they are going to either get a downscaled image or the image won't be displayed at all. The same occurs if the monitor or devices aren't HDCP compatible as well.
|
|
diabolos
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
24. March 2008 @ 23:12 |
Link to this message
|
@ goodswipe,
With respect, your information is fairly correct except for a couple of common miss-understandings.
ICT requires that a copy protected (Digital Rights Managment) digital connection is used. Some DVI-D and all HDMI 1.1 and later connections are enabled to carry content limited by the ICT because they use HDCP to encrypt the signal.
HDMI 1.3 didn't add anymore copy protection that wasn't there since HDMI 1.1.
The rest of your post is correct about ICT. The main thing I was trying to point out was that HDMI cables, or their performance, have no barring on wither a system is HDCP compliant or not. Further more neither the ICT nor HDMI 1.3 nor DVRs have anything to do with the "Switch-Over" in 2009 in which saulat_99's CC salesman referenced. In fact the ICT has nothing to do with HDTV broadcasts at all.
Quote:
Anything that has the HDMI logo on it, means that it is certified.
Correction: Anything that has the SimplayHD logo on it means that it is certified!
Simplay Labs:
http://www.simplayhd.com/consumers/verified_products.aspx
Ced
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. March 2008 @ 12:18
|
Member
|
27. March 2008 @ 20:12 |
Link to this message
|
|
Very informative, thanks for the help. My cable tech came over and knew little if anything about it. He thought they were trying to sell me stuff I don't need. He said he often sees the elderly with arm fulls of junk cables from retailers. He also was telling me there are adapters to use coaxial cable for digital audio signals which I am not entirely sure about.
|
|
goodswipe
Suspended permanently
|
27. March 2008 @ 22:48 |
Link to this message
|
Yea, he was talking about a digital coaxial cable.
Better to use this, opposed to 2-channel stereo (RCA) cables.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. March 2008 @ 22:49
|
Member
|
28. March 2008 @ 05:46 |
Link to this message
|
|
No, he left me with two things of regular coax which I have tons of anyway. I thought he gave me digital coax which would have made me happy. He did say that I could go to Radioshack and purchase an adapter for 1 or 2 dollars that would convert it to digital coax. He said if he needs to run any length of it then that is what they do, as it is better shielded than other cables. In his words, you could run it outside where most other cables will fall apart after a few years coax should be fine, and the adapter makes it much cheaper with little or no noticeable quality loss. I didn't really understand what he was trying to explain to me, but it was essentially using the coax as a digital signal.
|
|
goodswipe
Suspended permanently
|
28. March 2008 @ 11:37 |
Link to this message
|
In that case, I think you would need something that looks like this...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. March 2008 @ 12:19
|
Member
|
28. March 2008 @ 23:18 |
Link to this message
|
|
That looks about right. Do you know the name of the adapter or more importantly is it equal to digital coaxial?
|
|
diabolos
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
28. March 2008 @ 23:53 |
Link to this message
|
|
Coax is coax (as long as it is RG-59 or RG-6; most digital audio cables are RG-59). The build of the cable is where the term coax is implied. For digital coax the end (connector) may be anything that is ~75 ohm.
So if I confused the issue, my answer is yes.
Ced
|
|
goodswipe
Suspended permanently
|
29. March 2008 @ 20:20 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by saulat_99:
That looks about right. Do you know the name of the adapter or more importantly is it equal to digital coaxial?
Try doing a Google search on "F to RCA".
|
Member
|
30. March 2008 @ 05:46 |
Link to this message
|
Well, thats good to know. I ended up ordering an HDMI 1.3, 2 digital coax cables, and an optical for around 25$ all together. I also took the digital audio and HDMI cable that I payed 85$ for back yesterday. The same kid was there that insisted you would need at least 1.2 to comply with ICT. I told him my cable tech and everything I have seen online contradict him.
He continued insisting, but he seemed all right and we talked about other things as well. He said that Best Buy is on a numbers type thing where the scam departments must sell a certain amount or they are fired that month. I am not sure what Circuit City does since they are not commission.
|
|
goodswipe
Suspended permanently
|
30. March 2008 @ 20:25 |
Link to this message
|
Quote:
The same kid was there that insisted you would need at least 1.2 to comply with ICT.
As stated before, ICT is a security measure that can be found on HD DVD and Blur-ray. It has yet to be implemented on any disc as of this date.
@ Diablos
Quote:
Correction: Anything that has the SimplayHD logo on it means that it is certified!
Yea, means that it is certified by that testing company. All those products will still have the HDMI logo on them.
Quote:
The HDMI Licensing organization has taken steps toward changing this situation, and has inserted into the Compliance Testing Specification some language indicating that a cable cannot be deemed "compliant" and therefore eligible to bear the HDMI trademarks unless it's been shown compliant up to the length being sold.
Anything barring the HDMI logo, should mean that it is certified as well. To bear the HDMI logo, manufacturers have to adhere to their tests. If not, it is deemed non-compliant and therefore is not eligible to have the HDMI logo on it. Now as I've said before, they only have to pass two sets of tests. They can either pass test 1 or test 2, test 2 usually means the company has to over design their product. So how "good" is that cable really? Who knows, but either way, the cable has been certified by the HDMI people and that's enough reassurance for some folks.
Quote:
All HDMI products are required to be certified by the manufacturer as part of the HDMI Compliance Test Specification. However, there may be instances where cables bearing the HDMI logo are available but have not been properly tested. HDMI Licensing, LLC actively investigates these instances to ensure that the HDMI trademark is properly used in the market. We recommend that consumers buy their cables from a reputable source and a company that is trusted.
You guys still confused?
Also, all those cables that have been tested by SimplayHD are the ones that I would never pay for! Cheapest cable you might find off that list is a Dynex. Other then that, you will be looking at 35-200 dollars for the rest. I.E. Rocketfish, Monster, AR.
Unless you are installing the cable in your wall or needing over 6ft of cable, I see no reason to pay those absurdily high prices.
BTW, thanks for that link diablos!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. March 2008 @ 15:50
|
Member
|
31. March 2008 @ 15:33 |
Link to this message
|
|
I got it, thanks. I've run into another problem with the optical cable I ordered but I'll make another post about that.
|
|
goodswipe
Suspended permanently
|
31. March 2008 @ 15:43 |
Link to this message
|
Quote:
I ended up ordering an HDMI 1.3, 2 digital coax cables, and an optical for around 25$ all together.
Why did you buy digital coaxial and optical?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. March 2008 @ 15:44
|
Member
|
1. April 2008 @ 23:19 |
Link to this message
|
Two coaxial, one for my dvd player, one for my cable box. The optical is for my xbox 360.My problem was i thought the plastic covers on the optical were part of the cable, hence it didn't fit at first. Luckily my receiver has two digital and one optical input.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. April 2008 @ 23:21
|
|
goodswipe
Suspended permanently
|
2. April 2008 @ 10:34 |
Link to this message
|
Quote:
My problem was i thought the plastic covers on the optical were part of the cable, hence it didn't fit at first.
LOL! Yea, I've seen several other people that had the same problem. They thought it wouldn't work because they forgot to take of the plastic ends.
|
Member
|
2. April 2008 @ 15:25 |
Link to this message
|
|
Sadly enough I found a similar post online, I didn't even figure it out own my own. At least I didn't break anything while trying to make it fit.
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
goodswipe
Suspended permanently
|
2. April 2008 @ 15:31 |
Link to this message
|
|
Yea, you gotta be careful with those cables. Some of them are made of glass, so they can easily break on the inside.
|
