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Writing on DVD-R's with sharpie fine tip marker
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Valkyr47
Junior Member
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26. March 2008 @ 08:37 |
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Is there any truth to the idea that the sharpie over time can "seep" through the top film of the disk and eventually prevent readability?
I like to keep all my backups in a binder and the only way to efficiently label them is with a sharpie marker, but i dont want 3 years from now all the backups to be junk
Thanks!
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Senior Member
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26. March 2008 @ 09:16 |
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Nope,
never seen any problems with sharpies, nor have I heard of any issues, except for reading bad handwritung or poor spelling.
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. March 2008 @ 09:20 |
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I don't think so.
The colourant is suspended in a volatile base which evaporates rapidly.
So there is no fluid left to seep.
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. March 2008 @ 09:57 |
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besides the fluids (ink) being dried.... the substance (being plastic or whatever!) is not porous where a liquid can penetrate to beneath it surface! So when you write with a sharpie on the disk it stays on the top of the plastic surface and dries! It can not penetrate! And if you think about it..... then all the printable DVDs will be ruined if the ink can penetrate to the opposite side! It can't.
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Valkyr47
Junior Member
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26. March 2008 @ 09:58 |
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ok sorry i know it sounds like a stupid question i had just seen some ramblings on the internet about sharpie ink ruining discs over time... probably just some paranoia but wanted to be sure!
thanks guys!
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Senior Member
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26. March 2008 @ 10:11 |
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Valkyr47- Would Tend to agree with Attar !!! Some people claim that that May happen with Sharpie Pens A/c of them being Alcohol based ? But as Attar said The Colorant is suspended in a Volatile Base ( Alcohol ) which evaporates rather Quickly! I have been using Sharpies for a quite long time to label Media Both CDR & DVD media with NO untoward Affects whatsoever !!! In fact I will even admit to using Generic No Name Sharpie Type $1.00 store Markers on occasion with no negative effects !!! In fact 91% Isopropyl Alcohol is what I use to Clean My original Disc before Backing the Up( Removes skin oils , Dust , FingerPrints ect... ) I generally handle any CD/DVD media only by the edges but The Grandkids & other Visitors often are'nt as careful as I am ! I have a Hand cranked Radial Type Cd/DVD cleaner Made By Discwasher/RCA I found at Big lots for $4.99 Tax This works very well ! You want a Cleaner that has the O or Round washer shaped Pad as this one does ! If the cleaner Gadjet has a Bean , Kidney or small Crescent shaped cleaning pad It will Scratch your disc ! In my experience anyway ! Also If you make a Goof while labeling your Disc with a Sharpie you can clean it off with The alcohol & a Kleenex or soft disposible cloth and start over !If you are still averse to using A sharpie Pen You could always Use some of the Taiyo Yuden Thermal Lacquer DVD media and Buy a Thermal Printer and use it to label those disc for a More Proffesional/Commercial /Neater look to your labeled disc ! Casio Make a few models as do others but you are limited to mainly text as the graphics capability of these printers is low resolution at best ! Otherwise it's Lightscribe ( expensive media ) or Inkjet Printable media also more expensive or if your cheap/frugal like Me There's the Sharpies !!! Yes They work Label on My friend !!!
FeetZ Up ! Head Down !
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. March 2008 @ 10:13
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AfterDawn Addict
3 product reviews
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26. March 2008 @ 10:44 |
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Originally posted by Valkyr47:
Is there any truth to the idea that the sharpie over time can "seep" through the top film of the disk and eventually prevent readability?
I like to keep all my backups in a binder and the only way to efficiently label them is with a sharpie marker, but i dont want 3 years from now all the backups to be junk
Thanks!
As long as one does not write on the information side of the disc, everything should be fine. :)
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Senior Member
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26. March 2008 @ 14:18 |
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7thsinger- True true !!!! Yo!!! Dukie Pick up the Phone LOL!!!!!!!!
FeetZ Up ! Head Down !
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Senior Member
1 product review
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1. April 2008 @ 19:57 |
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Originally posted by Valkyr47:
Is there any truth to the idea that the sharpie over time can "seep" through the top film of the disk and eventually prevent readability?
I like to keep all my backups in a binder and the only way to efficiently label them is with a sharpie marker, but i dont want 3 years from now all the backups to be junk
Thanks!
I don't think so. I use CD/DVD markers, they are the same price as Sharpies.
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r0nbo
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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14. April 2008 @ 12:10 |
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I use the Sharpie cd/dvd markers but never had trouble with regular ones yet. On RWs I will usually use a grease pencil so they can be wiped off without permanently marking them. works fine.
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Davis777
Newbie
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14. April 2008 @ 16:02 |
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Many, many chemicals can eventually eat its way through the protective layer of any disc. The operative word is can. This is not some silly internet urban legend. If your disc has some junk on it that you don't care about then go to town and label it with a chisel and a hammer. But if your disc has something on it that is important then only label it with a method that will be safe now and in the long run. I always use a DiscPainter for my disc labeling because it prints on printable discs. Printable discs have an extra layer of protection on them and the DiscPainter uses disc safe ink.
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. April 2008 @ 14:24 |
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@Davis777:
Quote:
I always use a DiscPainter for my disc labeling because it prints on printable discs. Printable discs have an extra layer of protection on them and the DiscPainter uses disc safe ink.
and how do we know that a 100 yrs from now that "disc safe ink" didn't eat away that "extra layer of protection" and make the disc inoperatible?
you should know that nothing is forever! and I am only joking about your comments.
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Icanbe
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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16. April 2008 @ 17:15 |
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I've been using sharpies and CD/DVD markers for over 4 years, no ill effects.
They are safe to use.
20 Years ago I saw you yesterday, Youre looking at the picture now.
We Are, What We Are - Sepultura
Say what you want, Time will always tell the truth. |
AfterDawn Addict
3 product reviews
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16. April 2008 @ 17:26 |
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I can't stop sniffing the Sharpies.
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Icanbe
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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16. April 2008 @ 18:10 |
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Originally posted by 7thsinger:
I can't stop sniffing the Sharpies.
LOL, yeah they do smell good, kinda like gasoline when your filling up the car.
20 Years ago I saw you yesterday, Youre looking at the picture now.
We Are, What We Are - Sepultura
Say what you want, Time will always tell the truth.
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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18. April 2008 @ 18:38 |
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Depending on the lacquer used on CD-Rs, the chemicals in Sharpies may seep through and damage the reflective layer on the disc. There are some tests that show that the problem exists when the Sharpie-marked discs have been exposed to environmental chambers.
DVDs, however, do not have the problem. They have no protective coating--the top half is the same polycarbonate plastic as that on the bottom. The recording layer is in the middle of a DVD sandwich. The recording layer of a CD-R is on the top of a single layer of polycarbonate that is very slightly thicker tham the two DVD halves stacked together. Although polycarbonate is porous, the thickness is too great for any chemical leakage to reach the recording layer.
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Davis777
Newbie
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20. April 2008 @ 11:46 |
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I would suggest reading the government report regarding achieving disc media. Don't just depend on opinion, depend on fact. In a nutshell it says don't use stickers or markers and use printable discs. This report was one of the biggest reasons I bought a DiscPainter for disc labeling. I can't gamble, I need labels that won't destroy the data on my discs. And yes, as my esteemed fellow commenter humorously points out, nothing lasts for ever but I still want my discs to last longer than a few months.
[url=http://www.itl.nist.gov/iad/894.05/docs/CDandDVDCareandHandlingGuide.pdf][/url]
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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22. April 2008 @ 10:29 |
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The NIST documents have a number of mistakes in them. If facts are what you need, the facts based on the results of environmental testing standards that NIST accepted are:
1) Paper labels damage DVDs because of increases in tilt caused by the changes in tension across the label as water is absorbed and evaporated. (This can also happen when printable DVDs use ink coatings that can change over time. Most of these issues with the inks have been resolved by changes in the ink chemistry.)
2) Paper labels that are designed for CD-Rs have much less change in tilt or shrinkage on these single-piece discs. In some ways, the added cover offers some protection to the fragile upper surface of these media, but the labels must be precisely centered to avoid damage to high-speed drives trying to extract data.
3) All markers can damage CD-Rs' upper surface either by chemical interaction or by excessive writing pressure (far less likely). Water-based markers are superior, but much depends on the lacquer used. Writing on printable discs reduces the chance of damage because the coating adds another layer of protection.
4) Markers have little to no effect on DVDs because the 0.6 mm thickness of the polycarbonate prevents either seepage or pressure damage. However, writing on a DVD disc that is not resting on a flat surface will physically distort the disc temporarily. Tilt is a much greater factor with DVDs because the wavelength of the ruby-red laser and the tracks are smaller than those of the infrared laser and wide tracks of the CD-R. The smaller dimensions are why the recording layer of the DVD is in the middle of the disc instead of the top (and on the bottom of the Blu-ray disc.)
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Davis777
Newbie
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22. April 2008 @ 10:56 |
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Thank you Joe for your expert assistance. There are so many views on labeling out there and all I and I assume most others want is the safest way to put pretty labels on CDS and DVDs. I like the DiscPainter because it uses printable discs and the labels come out looking very nice. I have not experience any data loss from discs labeled with it since I got it 6 months ago. BTW I just tossed out a handful of older discs that had been burned and printed several years ago. They would not read correctly and they definitely did in 2003.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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22. April 2008 @ 14:33 |
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When it comes to recordable disc media, I go to JoeRyan as the final word here at AD.
"The flimsier the product,the higher the price"
Ferengi 82nd rule of aqusition
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clarkr
Newbie
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3. May 2008 @ 13:05 |
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It started out that I was looking for an answer to remove permanent marker on the playing surface of a DVD and ran across some good information on the subject of using Sharpies etc. on your CD/DVD media.
Here is a sight that I found with some interesting (and disturbing) information on marking your burned media: http://www.tapeonline.com/articles/disc-care.aspx
According to this site it does or CAN seep in through the top surface and cause damage in the future. Until you have some hard facts that prove the information on this site to be false I would play it safe and NOT mark on top of the area where you burned your data.
It would be horrible to find out in the future that the home movies of your kids etc. deteriorated without any way to recover.
Just my .02 cents
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Moderator
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3. May 2008 @ 13:12 |
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i've been using sharpies on dvd's for 3yrs, no seepage yet, and have been using them on cd's since recordable cd's first came out, still have a lot of those cd's, again no problems..
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clarkr
Newbie
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3. May 2008 @ 13:44 |
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I have done the same as yourself with CD's with no known problems at this particular time.
HOWEVER, when I get the final cuts for my home video ready to burn I will not take that chance that in 5-10 years or more that the disk will become unreadable or fail.
When putting irreplaceable data on a DVD or CD I just wouldn't chance losing archive materials by marking on the burn area.
Maybe the people who put that site together are wrong, I don't know, but it's just not worth the risk, at least for me.
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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3. May 2008 @ 13:48 |
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The tapeline citing reaffirmed my contention that DVD media are far less susceptible to any seepage from any type of marker because of the 0.6 mm of polycarbonate covering both the top and the bottom of the recording layer. CD-Rs are more likely to suffer from any chemical reaction because they have only the very thin silk-screen ink and the lacquer layers protecting the recording layer.
The NIST data on lifetimes of media are out of date and not likely to be updated because the NIST group working on the archive program was reassigned. Before that reassignment, the group did accept the test results indicating that a properly recorded and stored DVD disc ought to last 39 years with a 95% success rate while a CD-R under the same conditions (using phthalocyanine dye instead of cyanine or azo-cyanine) ought to last 112 years with a 95% success. CD-ROM and DVD-ROM media should outperform the organic dye-based equivalents. Oxidation of the polycarbonate is the limiting factor in those cases.
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Moderator
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3. May 2008 @ 14:14 |
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reading Joe's post reminded me that i did used to sometimes buy really cheap nasty cd-r's in the past, they had flimsy paper thin silver top coatings, that either came away when you wrote on them, or just came away on their own. On decent disks with a proper top surface i've had no problems
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