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DVD-Audio disc backups
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skenzer
Newbie
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13. February 2004 @ 07:44 |
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I'm trying to backup a couple of my DVD Audio discs that I own and am wondering if there is anyway around the CSS copy protection? DVD Shrink sees the video content but not the audio content. Other DVD copy utils like DVDClone and Xcopy only see the video content as well.
Thanks
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Senior Member
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17. February 2004 @ 08:20 |
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Forget it. You cannot do this digitally, it is not possible. The copy protection on DVDA is uncracked, and will probably remain so.
DVDshrink and similar apps will only decode the Video_TS folder of the disc, which is there for backwards compatibility with DVDA. The Audio_TS folder, where the high resolution stuff is, cannot be digitally ripped.
FYI, CSS is DVD-Video protection, not DVD-Audio. That uses CPPM.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. February 2004 @ 08:21
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mfurj
Member
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21. February 2004 @ 17:20 |
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Wilkes
You know so much more about DVD-A and SACD than I do. I just like the way it sounds, to be blunt. I have had some luck copying some DVD-A. I've used Shrink on a few and Decrypter has snagged a couple that Shrink couldn't get. I realize I'm not getting high resolution, I just wanted to make CD's out of a couple of my DVD-A's for use in the car.
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Senior Member
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22. February 2004 @ 03:08 |
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Sounds as if you are getting Audio from DVD-Video discs.
There is a great little app, if somewhat badly named, called "DVD-Audio Ripper". It grabs the Audio from DVD-Video discs as either AC3 or WAV, depending on what you want. It can be found at http://www.imtoo.com/dvd-audio-ripper.html
It does a pretty good job.
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mfurj
Member
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22. February 2004 @ 17:56 |
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Wilkes
No disrespect intended, but I am copying DVD-Audio discs. Multichannel DVD -A discs. Yes, I have been able to rip some with DVD Shrink. My thinking is that I'm actually getting the Dolby Digital tracks off of them. I just tried Sting's Brand New Day, and Shrink wouldn't do it, but Decrypter did. I don't get it, but it works more often than not.
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Senior Member
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23. February 2004 @ 02:18 |
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You are getting the Dolby Digital or other files from the Video_TS folder. If you look at the disc, you will see Video_TS and Audio_TS. The VTS is there for compatibility with DVD-Video players, and the ATS is the true DVDA section.
Trust me - you are copying/ripping the DVD-Video section, not the DVD-Audio one.
If you are truly getting the ATS files, they will be MLP files or 24/96 surround, and even 24/96 or 24/192 stereo PCM files.
These rippers all extract from the Video_TS and not the high resolution Audio_TS.
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mfurj
Member
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23. February 2004 @ 13:19 |
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That was my assumption and I thank you sir. As I said, you know infinitley more about this than I, who am just learning.
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listen
Junior Member
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27. February 2004 @ 16:43 |
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have you tried queen - a night at the opera ? apparently it has 24/96 pcm stereo that gives the appearance of not being part of the dvd-a section, but i haven't had any luck ripping it. I seem to only be able to find 48KHz audio :(
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Senior Member
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28. February 2004 @ 02:34 |
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This is my point entirely.
It is very rare for DVD-V sections to contain 24/96 as most plyers will not see this. They downsample to 48KHz as part of the copy protection, and usually truncate to 16 bit as well.
Rippers cannot rip DVDA.
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sayersc
Newbie
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28. February 2004 @ 14:28 |
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I have been trying to figure out a way to get digital copy of 24/192 to the hard disk.
I have an M-audio 24/192 card and windvd with audio pack.
Here is what I suggest someone try. Get WinDVD with audio pack, Audigy 2 card with DVD-A resolution and a product called Virtual Audio Cable.
Unfortunately I can't use the M-audio card because the WinDVD 24/192 or 24/96 6 channel only works with the Creative product.
Install Virtual audio cable and use this as the record in in control panel in windows XP. Start up WinDVD with audio pack and a DVD-A(of course). in winDVD Under the audio tab in setup, choose direct sound as the audio renderer. A suitable high end recording program can be used and Virtual audio cable should be chosen as the recording source.
I want to try this myself but I can't find an audigy 2 card right now.
Virtual audio cable intercepts the output before it hits the soundcard and this should be able to be piped to a recording program all digital unless WinDVD only puts out the 24/192 if the deault wave in is the creative audigy 2.
FYI with my current setup WinDVD plays 24/192 (Hotel California) but downsamples its output to 16/48 unless it finds the Creative installed?
Another product which captures ouput before the soundcard is total recorder but doesn't seem to be 24/192 capable I don't think.
I am patiently waiting to receive my prodigy 7.1 which can pipe pcm in and out internally to programs all digitally without going through DAC-ADC and see if I can trick WINDVD somehow. I just want to be able to take my own music with me on the road I don't share music for free.
As if we are all going to start sharing a 100mb song DVD-A file on sharing networks. People who listen to MP3s don't care about the last bit of resolution. this copy protection is misguided. I also am not going to be able to rip my entire DVD-A collection to hardisk anytime soon, until 1-Terabyte is the norm.
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tigre
Moderator
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1. March 2004 @ 04:54 |
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sayersc:
I always thought that Audigy 2 cards are capable of high resolution DVD-A playback because data is sent encrpypted to the card and decoding is by the card's DSP. This would mean that direct sound is not used to send the audio data to the card (or at least not the usual way) and you can't use VAC to capture the hires audio data. Maybe I'm wrong, though...
OTH I'm wondering how downsampled playback of DVD-As works... Either there's an additional low resolution unencrypted track that's used for this or decryption + resampling is indeed performed in software. In this case it would be quite easy (or at least possible) for someone skilled + motivated to reverse-enineer WinDVD to rip DVD-A at full resolution.
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tigre
Moderator
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1. March 2004 @ 23:43 |
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sayersc:
Quote:
Unfortunately I can't use the M-audio card because the WinDVD 24/192 or 24/96 6 channel only works with the Creative product.
<snip>
FYI with my current setup WinDVD plays 24/192 (Hotel California) but downsamples its output to 16/48 unless it finds the Creative installed?
How did you find out that playback is downsampled to 16/48?
I ask this because here's some guy claiming the opposite: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=19188&hl=
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sayersc
Newbie
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2. March 2004 @ 05:55 |
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tigre, There are a few ways to verify the downsample. I just received my Prodigy 7.1 which does transfers between programs in the digital domain internally before going through the DACs. Very Cool. My Prodigy tells me that WinDVD is outputing at 16/48. If you right click on the WINDVD player while a DVD-a is playing it brings up a menu, then click setup and then the information tab. The info tab tells you what mode(24/192 or 24/96) is playing and the output stream is 16/48. (it never changes).
Now all I need is a way to fool WinDVD into thinking I have an audigy and I can go 24/96 digitally through my Prodigy to a recording program and Voila digital copy.
It is obvious that WinDVD is responsible for decrypting the CPPM and MLP as a DVD-A will play in DVD-A mode(not dolby or DTS) without the Audigy. In fact I discovered that I can copy The AOB files of the disc by opening WinDVD and then stopping the player but leaving the program open. This allows copying of the AOB files to hard disc.
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sayersc
Newbie
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6. March 2004 @ 20:41 |
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After many many hours of experimentation and an XP re-install, with my new Prodigy 7.1, Directwire, WinDVD and Wavelab Demo I think I must correct myself on my earlier posts.
I now beleive that WinDVD is a full fledged DVD-A player in it's own right, up to 24/96 decoding anyway. My Prodigy tells me the incoming digital signal is 96 (don't know about bit depth). I thought previously that it did it's internal routing at this sample rate but it is actually reporting the output from WinDVD.
Anyway I have managed to record a stereo digital wave out from the WinDVD program, route it digitally through the Prodigy to Wavelab and record in 24/96. Listening back through the headphones, I canout tell the difference between listening to WinDVD or the Recorded wave file. I can also record in raw PCM and it sounds the same also.
There are numerous issues to get this to work right especially with the ASIO setup and preferences in Wavelab or else you will get clicks and pops on playback(latency/preference mismatch). Of course until someone finds a way to rip the aob files off a DVD I can't confirm that the pcm files are identical. My ears tell me it is as close to a perfect copy as far I can hear.
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tigre
Moderator
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6. March 2004 @ 23:58 |
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Wow. That's interesting news. I'd like to check the result (for noise floor + > 24kHz frequency content. Can you please upload a short sample (< 20 seconds, ideally losslessly compressed, e.g. using wavpack) somewhere - or PM me, then I'll give you my email adress so you can send it. Best choice for such a sample would be a passage of a track with very low volume (e.g. beginning of a track with "silence" and/or much treble.
Edit: In case you need some place to upload - you can use http://www.hydrogenaudio.org "upload" forum (after registration of course) - just start a new thread there, ideally point to the related HA thread: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=19188& . The upload must be smaller than ~ 7.5MB and shorter than 30 seconds (for copyrighted material).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. March 2004 @ 02:40
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