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TrueHd From Blu Ray TItle
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lost33
Newbie
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26. October 2008 @ 10:31 |
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Hello,
I have a Sony BDP S300 first generation player. I just updated the firmware to 4.2 to pick up the TRUE HD Support from this player.
I have played Resident Evil movie which has TRUE HD english audio.
I can select the TRUE HD audio and when its connected via hdmi to my ONKYO 805 receiver I see ALL CHANNEL PCM for a second and the receiver then shows DOLBY Digital EX and the movies plays...
I understand that the only way the Onlyo receivers show the TRUE HD etc is if they do the encoding from a RAW bitstream input..which my SONY S300 does not do or provide.
So my question is how do I really know that TRUE HD audio is really being outputted with this new 4.2 firmware..
I did notice in the firmware notes it says you now can select TRUE HD, indicates with 3.7 fiermware you could not....I dont want to flash back just to see if this is indeed true...
Anyway....I am going to sell this hummer and get a new panny bdp55 or the new SONY 355..
Any thoughts, ideas....
thanks
lost33
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Senior Member
5 product reviews
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26. October 2008 @ 11:25 |
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Often times, the onboard audio decoding that players claim can be quite misleading. Especially when it comes to the HD audio formats on Blu-ray discs.
You will need to read the firmware release notes very carefully. I have seen players state words like "Dolby TrueHD advanced digital out"... Which upon further investigation means that the Dolby Digital core is being extracted from the TrueHD track.
Anyways, back to your problem. It would be interesting if you could quote what the firmware upgrade claims it will do for your player. Unless it can magically change your HDMI socket from v1.1 to v1.3 then I don't think that player will be bitstreaming TrueHD/DTS-HD MA anytime soon.
To bitstream those audio formats you need a player equipped with HDMI v1.3, which that player does not have. I think you will find that the firmware has added onboard decoding support, meaning you can now decode the TrueHD track inside the player and send the 7.1 LPCM track to your receiver.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. October 2008 @ 11:27
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lost33
Newbie
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26. October 2008 @ 17:40 |
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Here is the excerpt from the firmware notes:
This utility updates the BDP-S300 firmware to version 4.20, and provides the following benefits:
Improvements over firmware version 3.95:
* Improves BD-Java compatibility to enhance interactivity with some BD-ROMs.
* Adds Dolby® TrueHD Audio decoding functionality.
Additional improvements over original firmware:
* Compatibility with BD-R/RE discs burned by the Click to Disc? and Click to Disc? Editor software included with some VAIO® computers
* Compatibility with the newly released BD-R/RE format (BDMV).
* Improves BD-Java compatibility to enhance interactivity with some BD-ROMs.
I guess this means that it can internally decode Dolby True HD but can not bitstream it out, due to the HDMI 1.1 limitations??
So I guess it times for a panasonic bd55!!
thanks
lost33
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Senior Member
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26. October 2008 @ 22:47 |
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You should set your BD player to Audio - HDMI - up to 7.1. Your Onkyo will say that the audio coming is LPCM, which is true because your BD player is actually doing the decoding... I bet if you hit display on your BDP300 it might even say TrueHD... I cannot say for sure but that's how the PS3 works.
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lost33
Newbie
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26. October 2008 @ 23:16 |
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What I did try after much reading was on the bdp s300 change the setting on audio hdmi from AUTO to PCM.
The Onkyo receiver now says "Multi channel" and the sound is much more robust....leaving in in auto according to many just send out dolby ....
I will try the disply on the s300 but i think we are ok finally, the sound is really great now compared to the plain old dolby..
My toshiba a35 does all this rather well!!
Thanks for the data
lost33
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Senior Member
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26. October 2008 @ 23:22 |
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If you're looking for a good, er, great TrueHD BD, give Dave Matthew's Live at Radio City a try. If that's not your cup o' tea there's always Iron Man!
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Senior Member
5 product reviews
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27. October 2008 @ 00:09 |
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Originally posted by odin24:
You should set your BD player to Audio - HDMI - up to 7.1. Your Onkyo will say that the audio coming is LPCM, which is true because your BD player is actually doing the decoding... I bet if you hit display on your BDP300 it might even say TrueHD... I cannot say for sure but that's how the PS3 works.
Yes, but there is a difference between the player doing the decoding and it being sent to the AV Receiver as bitstream, therefore allowing the Receiver to do the decoding.
With a BD Player that has HDMI v1.3 you will be able to bitstream Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD MA. With the right receiver (eg: Onkyo TXSR805 as the OP mentioned) you will be able to see TrueHD/DTS-HD MA displayed on the Receiver as it will be decoding the audio. The PS3 can not bitstream the HD audio formats. It can only decode onboard and send the audio as LPCM. Theoretically there is no audible difference between these two methods. However, some people like to see "TrueHD" displayed on their amp.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. October 2008 @ 00:12
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Senior Member
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27. October 2008 @ 03:42 |
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Originally posted by Ryu77:
Originally posted by odin24:
You should set your BD player to Audio - HDMI - up to 7.1. Your Onkyo will say that the audio coming is LPCM, which is true because your BD player is actually doing the decoding... I bet if you hit display on your BDP300 it might even say TrueHD... I cannot say for sure but that's how the PS3 works.
Yes, but there is a difference between the player doing the decoding and it being sent to the AV Receiver as bitstream, therefore allowing the Receiver to do the decoding.
With a BD Player that has HDMI v1.3 you will be able to bitstream Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD MA. With the right receiver (eg: Onkyo TXSR805 as the OP mentioned) you will be able to see TrueHD/DTS-HD MA displayed on the Receiver as it will be decoding the audio. The PS3 can not bitstream the HD audio formats. It can only decode onboard and send the audio as LPCM. Theoretically there is no audible difference between these two methods. However, some people like to see "TrueHD" displayed on their amp.
What I meant to say is set the BD player to PCM, so it does the decoding... because it cannot bitstream, so the Onkyo will not say TrueHD, or DTSHD-MA.
BTW, which HDMI version does the PS3 have? I know it cannot bitstream HD audio, I just cannot remember off the to of my head which version it has.
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lost33
Newbie
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27. October 2008 @ 15:01 |
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Yup, and when set to PCM, the Onkyo says "Multi-Channel" and sounds really great now compared to Dolby DD.
The Onkyo I have can decode TRUE HD and when I use it with my Toshiba
HD-A35 it does light up!! (big smile)...
Good old HD was ahead of its times...now its a loss leader...but still plays well..
Aint technology grand!!
lost 33...
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Senior Member
5 product reviews
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28. October 2008 @ 07:37 |
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Originally posted by odin24:
BTW, which HDMI version does the PS3 have? I know it cannot bitstream HD audio, I just cannot remember off the to of my head which version it has.
v1.3
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Senior Member
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28. October 2008 @ 15:50 |
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Originally posted by Ryu77:
Originally posted by odin24:
BTW, which HDMI version does the PS3 have? I know it cannot bitstream HD audio, I just cannot remember off the to of my head which version it has.
v1.3
I thought so. In your previous post you say a BD player that has HDMI v1.3 can bitstream THD & DTSHD, I just got a little confused for a moment regarding the PS3 and it's capabilities.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. October 2008 @ 15:50
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Jarvis3
Newbie
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16. November 2008 @ 06:57 |
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I have a Onkyo 806 receiver and a Sony s301 blu ray player. If I change my settings to pcm for HDMI on the player, what do I choose on the blu ray disc? Just choose TruHD or if there is a PCM choice, should I choose that? By the way I just updated my firmware on my player to 4.30.
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Senior Member
5 product reviews
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16. November 2008 @ 07:26 |
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Originally posted by Jarvis3:
I have a Onkyo 806 receiver and a Sony s301 blu ray player. If I change my settings to pcm for HDMI on the player, what do I choose on the blu ray disc? Just choose TruHD or if there is a PCM choice, should I choose that? By the way I just updated my firmware on my player to 4.30.
The Onkyo TXSR806 can decode the HD audio formats (TrueHD and DTS-HD) so you shouldn't change the HDMI audio output to PCM. You should just leave it as bitstream or raw.
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lost33
Newbie
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16. November 2008 @ 07:40 |
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Jarvis3,
If you mean you have a SONY BDPS300 not a 301 (mistype?).
This player doesnt bitstream anything, the latest firmware has added the internal decode of dolby True HD. So you if you use HDMI to your Onkyo like me, set the AUTO setting to PCM. this lets the SONY 300 decode and send to the receiver as PCM and you will get the Dolby True HD sound...but the light on you Onkyo will not light up with Dolby True HD. If you dont do this you will get the normal Dolby stuff.
Alex
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Jarvis3
Newbie
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16. November 2008 @ 09:14 |
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lost33
Newbie
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16. November 2008 @ 10:35 |
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Ok, did some searching and it seems like the only difference is the 301 has an hdmi cable in the box?
The firmware 4.3 seems to be the same on both.
So I would leave the AUTO HDMI setting on PCM, let the S301 do the decode with the formats is can handle, and those that it cant you will get whatever comes "inside" of those down to the receiver, like good old Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1.
The only way to improve on this is to upgrade to a newer BD player than can decode the high end codecs and PCM to the receiver OR Bitstream them to the Onkyo and let it do the magic.
The age old question is what is better?? Let the receiver do it or the player? And this starts and has started a million opinions and posts....
Lost33
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Senior Member
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16. November 2008 @ 10:49 |
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If you are going to upgrade I'd suggest the 350 model, which I believe is the next one up. It can decode and bitstream Dolby THD, and bitstream DTS HD-MA (no decode). It is currently on sale for $250 in Canada, not sure about the USA. Or you could splurge for the 550.
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Senior Member
5 product reviews
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17. November 2008 @ 00:06 |
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The BDP-S350 is certainly an improvement from the last range of Sony Blu-ray players. The start up time has improved signifigantly. To the point where it is almost as quick as a standard DVD Player. The XMB interface is a nice little touch and it also seems to handle a wider variety of burnt media (AVCHD/BD-5/BD-5). Previous models that I tested didn't seem to like playing my recoded BD-5/BD-9 discs.
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Jarvis3
Newbie
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17. November 2008 @ 06:38 |
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Well last night I tried the little experiment. I put my Blu Ray player(Sony BDP s301) HDMI output to PCM, then I loaded Blade Runner(Chose TruHD on the discs menu)....and nothing. I expected my Onkyo 806 to at least read PCM, but all it read was something called direct. And the quality of the audio was very sub par. No dynamic range what so ever.Hardly much volume either. Very disappointing.
This is with the firmware update(4.30) that I did recently. On the update page it says: Adds Dolby® TrueHD Audio and Dolby Digital Plus Audio decoding functionality. What is that supposed to mean. I even called Sony. But their support couldn't even explain what it is supposed to mean. Guess I'll just have to buy a new player to experience Lossless sound quality.
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Senior Member
5 product reviews
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17. November 2008 @ 07:34 |
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You are connecting to the amp with HDMI, right?
Direct mode on the Onkyo TXSR806 means that no changes will be made to the audio stream at all. It also turns of the display and just leaves a little blue light on. Why don't you try some different modes? Maybe give the THX mode a try. That receiver is THX Ultra II certified and as such it has plenty of grunt. Far from the disappointing performance you described. I demonstrate that receiver regularly to customers and sell quite a lot of them. They are a fantastic receiver. I just think you need to calibrate your system correctly.
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Jarvis3
Newbie
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17. November 2008 @ 07:53 |
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Thank you for the info. Although I believe the blue light and display go off only for the "Pure Audio" mode. I have no problem with the receiver. It's great. I just expected it to read PCM on it's display and get the raw PCM from my player. But the Dolby Digital from my player sounded incredible compared to the supposed PCM.. It shouldn't be this difficult.
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lost33
Newbie
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17. November 2008 @ 14:16 |
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Somethings wrong here..it should sound great..unforunately my Blade runners set are on HD, not Blu Ray and my 805 see the raw bitstream and sounds great.
I watched 3 BD movies over the weekend with the BDps300 set to AUTO in the HDMI and all three showed Multi PCM. This should mean that the decode was being done in the BD player...
I use nothing but the hdmi cables now...the optical and coax are gone.
lost33
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Jarvis3
Newbie
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17. November 2008 @ 14:21 |
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Yes, I only use HDMI cables also. When the player is set to auto it reads Dolby Digital on the Onkyo display. When I have the player set to PCM, it reads Direct on my Onkyo. Nothing says Multichannel or PCM on the Onkyo's display.
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Senior Member
5 product reviews
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17. November 2008 @ 15:33 |
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Yes, you are right that mode is called pure audio. Please excuse my mistake there. I just assumed that is what you were referring to.
I will have a look at that Receiver when I go into work today and I will get back to you later.
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Jarvis3
Newbie
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18. November 2008 @ 07:13 |
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Last night I tried it again. This time I got down close to look at the Onkyo's readout. In the smallest type, were the letters PCM. I could have used a magnifying glass. Then I scrolled through the listening modes and chose MULTICHANNEL. Success! Incredible rich, full sound. I was watching Spiderman 3 and I had the choice of both Dolby TruHD or Uncompressed PCM 5.1. I did notice that the Uncompressed PCM 5.1 was a bit more expansive and louder for that matter than the Dolby TruHD. But both were very good.
Question: If I play a disc with DTS Master audio on it, will my Bluray player be able to feed it through to my Onkyo amplifier in PCM, just as it does with Dolby TruHD?
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