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Need help building a budgeted gaming system (amateur)
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Kenny536
Junior Member
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14. December 2008 @ 20:55 |
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Hello - I created this thread because I need guidance on building a gaming desktop. I don't have much experience with this - so far all my experience is replacing a video card and putting in some thermal paste.
My goal is to make a great GAMING PC for my little brother for about 600-800$ - i want to try to not go over 700 but i also want to get the most out of my money. I am using websites such as google, newegg( especially the reviews!), toms hardware, pricewatch, and tigerdirect. I won't get state of the art technology with that budget, but I still want it to last a good number of years with the latest games. I live in and will be buying from the USA.
Keep in mind that since i have never built a computer so I'm not really sure too sure what I'm doing. I figured that i would order all the parts and then just try to put it together.
So far, the parts that I think I need are:
Motherboard
Processor
Video Card
RAM
Monitor
Computer Case
Hard Drive
Keyboard
Mouse
Speakers
CD/DVD Burner
Please let me know if there is anything else I need. The fan comes with the motherboard right? Will I need some sort of external cooling also?
I have researched the priciest components so far (CPU, motherboard, video card). Please let me know what you think of my decisions and if you have recommendations. Is everything compatible with eachother? I'm trying to get the biggest bang for my buck. Based on my research, I have come to the conclusion that Intel > AMD at this current moment.
I haven't decided if I am going to overclock this (partly because I'm not sure how to). But let's just assume I will.
Processor - this is what I have researched the most so far and I am fairly confident in my choice - but let me know if you disagree.
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0Ghz 1333FSB 6MB L2
http://www.futurepowerpc.com/scripts/pro...RE8400&REFID=PW
Motherboard - I'm not very knowledgeable with the specs for motherboards, I have narrowed it down to the eight motherboards you see below (based on the reviews at newegg).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188026
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131295
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128347
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131232
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131299
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131344
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128359
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358
Keep in mind that I have not checked these motherboards on Pricewatch - so there may be a 5-10$ cheaper elsewhere.
As for CPU/Motherboard combos, I've looked for a good deal on one of those but what I am finding is that they offer a really great processor and a very crappy non-gaming motherboard.
Video Card - I have already purchased this one for 20$ (after rebate) and based on the reviews its pretty good for gaming - my reasoning was that since it is only 20$, worst case scenario is I will just get a better one later on incase this one isn't good enough.
EVGA 256-P2-N761-TR GeForce 8600 GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130394
RAM - Haven't researched this much yet - is there a certain minimum amount of RAM I need to make it compatible with my motherboard and processor? I don't want the minimum amount though - I want a good amount to ensure it is a great gaming desktop. What is the typical amount of RAM to accomplish this?
Hard Drive - Haven't researched this much yet - is there a certain minimum amount of hard drive space I need to make it compatible with my motherboard and processor? I don't want the minimum amount though - I want a good amount to ensure it is a great gaming desktop. What is the typical amount of HD space to accomplish this?
Monitor - Haven't researched this much yet.
The rest of things like the keyboard and speakers I don't think is that big of a deal, that I can do on my own but the main components is what I need help with.
Also - here a couple of combos from some users on Newegg. Haven't looked at these very carefully yet.
-EVGA 512-P3-N980-AR GeForce 9800 GT Hybrid
-GIGABYTE GA-EP43-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel
-Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB
-G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
-LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model
-Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
-Rosewill RCX-Z300 92mm Ball CPU Cooler
-RAIDMAX SMILODON ATX-612WBP Black 1.0mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Foldout MB Computer Case With 500W Power **this box was not the best choice**
-Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit
1.This mobo Gigabyte EP45
2.Intel E8500 C2D...OCed@3.9Ghz/1644mhz FSB
3.GTX260(MSI)Oced 702/2406/1467 GPU(just 1)
4.DDR2 1000@822mhz 5-4-4-12 1:1 (gskill)2x2=4gb
5.X-Fi gamer's edition audio
6.(optional) Asus PhysiX card-takes load off GPU
7. 750watt 4x12v rail PS(Zalman)or better
8. Antec 300 or 900 (depending on your budget)case
9. 22"lcd or bigger with 2ms 10000:1 (LG)or samsung
10. any of the THX Logitec speakers are good! Z series
Let me know if I forgot to mention anything. I would appreciate it if you would please let me know what you think, thanks a lot.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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14. December 2008 @ 21:43 |
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I wouldn't necessarily recommend either of those builds you listed. The E8500 is too expensive to justify its extra expense
on its own, the E8400 or E7300 would be better choices.
Of those motherboard choices:
EVGA 750i: bad
Asus P5Q: good
Gigabyte EP43-DS3L: Excellent
Asus P5N-D: mediocre
Asus P5Q Pro: Very good
Gigabyte EP45-UD3R: Excellent
Gigabyte EP45-UD3P: Unnecessary
Overall, the EP43-DS3L or UD3P would be the best choices. The UD3P is probably only necessary for overclocking, but does
contain a few nice things the DS3L doesn't have, like firewire.
The graphics card you have is very poor for modern games, and I strongly recommend upgrading it. The following card can be
had for a good price, and is double the speed of the 8600GTS:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102803
I would recommend this memory:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184
Hard drive requirements vary based on how many games will be installed, and downloadables, primarily video, music does not
occupy a great deal of space. Here's a fairly typical HDD these days:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073
Monitor is a difficult thing to include on a budget, I'd probably go for something like this if you can afford it:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001306
You spend a lot of time looking at your monitor, so you need a good one.
You haven't included a power supply, case or CD/DVD in your own musings. Here's the selection I usually use:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139003
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136153
You stand to build a decent system on a budget if you already have the operatig system you wish to install, if you need to purchase one, you may need to scale back on your build a bit to afford it.
Speakers for a PC built to a sub $900 budget will never be awesome, but the Logitech X-240s can be had for pretty cheap, and sound relatively good.
I would only recommend an aftermarket CPU cooler if you intend to overclock, it's not necessary otherwise (oh, and either are Physics cards before you ask)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121010
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Kenny536
Junior Member
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15. December 2008 @ 02:43 |
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I appreciate the response.
Since I'm new to this, I'm taking it one step at a time.
I've pretty much already decided on the e8400.
I'm not going to research anything else until I decide on a motherboard.
Motherboard - why do you say the Gigabytes are better than the ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45? Based on the responses I've gathered so far, people think the latter is better.
Also, you said the UD3R and the DS3L are excellent, and the UD3P is unnecessary. But then you said the EP43-DS3L or UD3P would be the best choices. That confused me.
Thanks.
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Kenny536
Junior Member
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15. December 2008 @ 03:55 |
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Sorry for double post but I can't find the edit button.
Thanks for the replies.
I have narrowed the motherboard down to three (although feel free to suggest something else).
The ASUS p5q Pro 115$
The ASUS p5q-e 145$
GIGABYTE UD3P 117$
(Keep in the mind that I will receive a 20$ combo discount for the Pro and a 10$ discount for the UD3P when coupled with the 8400)
I chose the UD3P over the UD3R and UD3 because of this chart: 
Although that chart does confuse me. I know I need CrossFire for overclocking so I figured I'd go with the UD3P.
Can you guys give me feedback on which is the best from the three motherboards? Please let me know what your reason is for recommending also.
Is the p5q-e worth it for the 30$ price jump?
Is there any difference in the expansion slots? I see a difference in the p5qe.
I also see a difference in the max memory supported - p5q pro only supports 8GB while the other two support 16GB. But I only need 4GB RAM right? Then that would be irrelevant.
Are there any other differences?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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15. December 2008 @ 06:16 |
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It's mainly precautionary, I know the P5Q Deluxe and P5Q Premium to be excellent boards, but the P5Q Pro is a little on the cheap side, ad cheaper Asus motherboards have always had a poor lifespan in the past.
You don't need crossfire for overclocking, the two are completely unrelated, get the UD3R and save money.
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Kenny536
Junior Member
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15. December 2008 @ 18:49 |
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Okay - I will consider the UD34 - but is this a disadvantage:
Quote:
Cons: Only one PCI-E slot, but I'm not using this one for much gaming anyway.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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15. December 2008 @ 18:55 |
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You only need two PCIe slots to run two graphics cards. For $700, two graphics cards is utterly needless. I have one of the fastest gaming PCs of anyone here on the site, and I only use one graphics card, as you can buy cards that are 2 in 1 and still only require one slot. Trust me, the need for two PCIe slots is greatly overstated, the UD3R will be fine.
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Kenny536
Junior Member
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15. December 2008 @ 19:03 |
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I'm guessing that the extra PCI Slot is only needed if for crossfiring - which you say that I do not need to do. So therefore there is no point in getting the UD3P. Correct?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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15. December 2008 @ 19:07 |
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Yes, that is correct.
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Kenny536
Junior Member
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15. December 2008 @ 19:23 |
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Okay - thanks.
- someone on another forum suggested getting the EP43 - DS3L - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...128347&Tpk=ep43
His reasoning was: Quote:
the EP43 DS3l is it allows you to spend more on the video card which will have the greatest impact on gaming performance. The only reasons to get a more expensive board is if you want to run crossfire or plan on heavily overclocking your cpu (>4ghz) in which case the biostar TP45HP is your best option. While the EP43 might be able to overclock that high the TP45 will do it without a problem assuming the cpu is capable of it.
Newegg.com - BIOSTAR TForce TP45HP LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...3138123
Basically, he is saying that settle for a low mobo to buy an extremely high end video card because that is what really counts for gaming performance. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what to think of this - what is your opinion?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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15. December 2008 @ 19:28 |
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The DS3L is a cheap board, and is often recommended to people on that basis. You may as well go with it over the UD3R if you don't need the extra features the UD has, such as firewire.
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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16. December 2008 @ 13:44 |
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Price wise, they are all virtually the same. I purchased the UD3P because it was $99 at the time. Right now, though out of stock, the UD3R is $99. The DS3L is about $88 - $90 after shipping.
As for the features that made the UD3p better, TPM is some type of hardware encryption. It looks like a good feature if you need it...
The CrossfireX as sammorris states, is not necessary. It becomes more of a factor with higher resolution, but both nVidia and ATi make dual GPU cards. Crossfire/SLI is more for bragging rights.
The 2xGBE LAN is if you pay for 2 internet services, you can use them as one and basically doubling your speed. That's how I see it at least. So, it's two ethernet ports that act as one.
I am stumped with the Dolby home theater... It does have Dolby Live, Dolby Prologic II, and Dolby Virtual speaker. Maybe that is what they are talking about. Those are just settings in the GUI for the audio. Haven't checked it out yet as I don't have anything connected to my system.
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Kenny536
Junior Member
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16. December 2008 @ 20:18 |
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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17. December 2008 @ 00:42 |
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With the Video cards, the HD 4830 and 9800GT are about equal. Both are better than that particular 8800GTS.
For the PSU, the Corsair will be the best of the bunch. You can maybe even drop the wattage, but stick with the brand if it puts you over budget.
I don't know much about monitors, but Samsung makes very good LCD TVs. I would assume their monitors are very good as well.
I wouldn't know about the RAM. They seem like they are both equal quality. One is clocked higher, the other is lower latency, but I bet you can OC the 800MHz RAM to 1066 with no problem. The spec voltage on the OC RAM is 2.0 - 2.1, so you will be unlikely to overvolt it.
With the HDDs, be careful. The Seagate Momentus is a notebook HDD. The Western Digital Elements is external, so you are paying more for that.
For the others, it looks like you are using a $10 discount? As for choosing, it would depend if you want 1TB or 500GB. If you are going to use the drive more for storage, the 1TB would probably be better and it is cheaper per GB.
There is also a Seagate 3 Platter 1TB HDD for $120 (if you have a discount it would be $110). I am not sure, but I think 3 platter will be quieter than a 4 platter HDD. Also, possibly more reliable? Maybe sammorris can shed some light on 3 platter vs 4 platter on the 1TB hard drives.
The DVD Burners will not differ much in quality. NEC and Lite-On both make good drives. Basically as long as you stick with a major name (NEC, Lite-On, LG, Pioneer, etc...) you will be fine.
I can't help you with cases. There is actually a difference with airflow and noise and I do not do any research on that area.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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17. December 2008 @ 09:50 |
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Ok, Part by part analysis:
Graphics card: The HD4830 is the best performing and best value card of that lot, it beats the 9800GT by anywhere between 10 and 25%, and costs only 5 dollars extra, it blows the other two cards away.
Power Supply: You could get away with using the OCZ, but the Corsair is a better unit if you can justify the extra cost. That particular Thermaltake is pretty poor, and all Rosewill PSUs are deathtraps.
Monitor: Samsung, every time.
RAM: G-Skill make good stuff, and $50 for 4GB PC8500 is a superb deal, go for it.
Hard disks: The expensive ones are for laptops, or are external ones you can take with you. Only the first and last drives are suitable for a normal PC. The WD is a better drive, but obviously costs more as you've chosen a 1TB version. If 1TB is more than you'll need, buy a WD5000AAKS. 3vs 4 platters, it makes a bit of a difference, yes. The 3 platter WD 1TB drive is the WD10EADS.
DVD Burner: Optiarc, I've had good experience with the older versions of those, and so have most people it seems.
Cases: Go Antec. Rosewill are a low-cost, low-quality company. Antec are the opposite. Realistically though, the Nine Hundred case is overkill for most builds. You're better off buying the Three Hundred and E8400 separately, you don't lose much, and you still save money.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042
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Kenny536
Junior Member
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17. December 2008 @ 22:17 |
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Thanks for your analysis.
However, there is one thing that bothers me. One guy is saying that basically I should pay 50$ more and get the 4850 video card or the geforce 260 because the 4830/9800GT is not sufficient for a 22" monitor - it may not handle the detailed resolutions on high for some games - is this a valid statement? Should I be concerned about this? I was looking forward to the 22" screen but if the 4830/9800GT cannot handle it then
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Kenny536
Junior Member
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18. December 2008 @ 02:15 |
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Alright ? I?m done ordering everything (except the speakers). Let me know how I did!
Here is the final order:
CPU: e8400 WolfDale
Motherboard: GIGABYTE UD3R
Video Card: ASUS Radeon HD 4830 (I decided to change this from the 9800 GT ? some people say they are the same, some say the 4830 is slightly better, so I went with the 4830).
RAM: G.Skill 4GB(2x2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 1066
Power Supply: OCZ StealthStream 600W
Monitor: SAMSUNG 2233bw High Glossy Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar 500 GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0 GB
DVD: LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe
Case: Antec 900 (great case, the blue looks sweet!)
Keyboard: Saitek Black USB Wired Standard Eclipse (this has illuminated blue keys ? matches the case!).
Mouse: Logitech MX518 ? I already had this.
OS: Vista 64-bit - I got this for free from a student organization that I am in.
The total for all this (minus the last two which I already had) turned out to be 830$ after all promo codes, discounts, and rebates.
Did I spend my money well? What do you guys think?
Thanks to everyone who has helped me ? I?ve learned a lot! Now it?s time to build lol ? this will not be fun.
Am I missing anything else? I don?t need a cooler unless I decide to overclock ? right?
The only other thing I need that I can think of are speakers. Is there anything you guys recommend that isn?t too expensive? Here are the two that I was looking at:
Logitech X-240 25 Watts 2.1 Speaker ? Retail
40.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121010
or
LOGISYS Computer SP6000-BK 32Watts 2.1 SOHO MULTIMEDIA SPEAKER SYSTEM
23.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836157002
I don?t know which one I should get. The Logitech one is great because it?s Logitech? plus the black speakers will match my case? but its 40.99 ? on the other hand the other one has great reviews and is supposed to great for gaming but it?s some weird company called LOGISYS.. and the speakers look nice but they are more silver than black and they won?t match my case at all? but they?re only 23.99.
The crappy part is that either speaker will cost me an extra 15$ for shipping ? all the stuff I?ve bought so far conveniently had free shipping. Not sure what to do ? any other alternatives? Or maybe I should just stick with the monitor speakers? And then maybe just use a headset from the monitor speakers when I game? Or is that not a good idea?
Thanks!
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. December 2008 @ 11:19 |
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No it is not a valid statement, the HD4830 can handle pretty much anything at 1680x1050 fine, Crysis included. You were correct, however, in your assumption that the HD4830 is faster than the 9800GT, it is.
I'd buy the Logitech speakers, Logitech make relatively good stuff, whereas cheap speakers are really nasty and annoying. If you like your sound, you'll be willing to pay the extra shipping :)
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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18. December 2008 @ 14:40 |
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I don't know if spending an extra $20 is an option, but the HD 4850 from Asus is $120:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121272
That looks like a dual slot cooler on it though, so it will likely block an extra PCI slot. Also the card appears to be overclocked. Mine I believe was 625MHz clock, and this one is 680MHz.
I don't have any experience with Asus video cards so I am basing this recommendation on the price as the HD 4850 is better than the HD 4830.
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. December 2008 @ 14:43 |
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That's a good cooler, I have used the same on one of my HD3870s in the past. However, I don't always recommend Asus because I think their warranty service is quite poor. Additionally, pre-overclocked cards can often be problematic. This is the HD4850 I recommend:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102770
Not as cheap, especially without considering rebates, but who's to say you get the Asus rebate anyway?
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18. December 2008 @ 16:14 |
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Yeah, no point in buying OC'd cards as you can do it fine yourself in catalyst control centre. ATI just released new drivers so you'll see slight performance gains in the 4000 series cards compared to benchmarks you'll see online. My dips decreased a bit in Fallout 3, but I run into problems because I've imported an HD texture pack that runs into limits with my 512mb card. Wish I had bought the 1GB at this point, but my money is probably better spend elsewhere anyways.
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Kenny536
Junior Member
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19. December 2008 @ 02:23 |
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Thanks for the feedback.
I bought some other stuff on NewEgg today:
Mousepad: steelseries 63005SS QcK mini.
Speakers: Logitech X-240 25 Watts 2.1
Router: LINKSYS WRT54GL IEEE 802.3/3u, IEEE 802.11b/g Wireless-G Broadband
Games: Battlefield 2: Complete Collection and Counter Strike: Source
All I need now are headphones.
The above games are sort of old - I also want to buy a new game that will really challenge my system - but at the same time I want the game to be multiplayer and fun. I think Crysis is the only game that fits that criteria. Do you think my system would be able to handle Crysis? I don't know how to OC and stuff though.
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. December 2008 @ 02:26 |
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The HD4830 can 'handle' Crysis. On your system, a playable frame rate will be achieved at 1280x1024 with most settings high, one or two at medium. To run all high, you will have to drop the resolution to at least 1280x800, if not 1024x768. To run at 1680x1050 you will have to drop to all medium detail.
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Kenny536
Junior Member
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24. December 2008 @ 02:47 |
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Wow I am really mad right now - I spent like 12 hours reading so many websites and manuals and stuff and I think I finally figured out where everything goes.. so I plug the power supply cord in to the wall and flip the switch and try to turn on the computer and what happens? nothing..
I think the PSU is defective or something... sometimes when I'm flipping the switch and I lean in real close I hear a slight hissing sound, not sure if its the PSU or the motherboard, but I'm guessing the PSU.
I dont know if its just because I am new at this.. but I really think I plugged in everything where it belongs.. this really sucks
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JaguarGod
Senior Member
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24. December 2008 @ 04:40 |
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You might have connected the case's power switch cable/connector into the wrong slot in your motherboard. Also make sure that the PSU is turned on.
Double check the instructions for the case and motherboard to make sure that is correctly connected. Also, those are usually a little tricky to get all the way in since some of those connectors are very small, so make sure that everything is in all the way.
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