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What is the cutoff bitrate level for CCE?
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stavs16
Newbie
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24. February 2009 @ 21:41 |
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I have backed up alot of movies in my life with CCE SP.
With all this controversy I have read up on about CCE performing poorly with low bitrate levels, I figured it was time to purchase Procoder 3 as alot of individuals have suggested.
Yesterday I was backing up King Kong, with the main movie, and menus. The movie is about 3 hours and seven minutes long and had a compression ratio of 50.2% in DVD RB and a bitrate level of 3300-2600. I figured it was the perfect time for me to try out Procoder, and to my likings, it produced a beautiful masterpiece.
Now at the moment, I am in the process of backing up the Lord of the Rings Trilogy, and I am kind of stumped what encoder I should use. Fellowship has a 54.7% compression ratio with virtually the same bitrate levels as King Kong (3300-2600).
My main question is, what should be the cut off bitrate or compression ratio to stop using CCE as Procoder will produce a better quality movie?
Should I just let anything under 60% compressed (40%) go through procoder?
I still use CCE because I've read that it does tend to keep the images sharper than Procoder at higher bitrate levels, so I will continue to use it, and only use procoder for those long, huge compression movies.
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stavs16
Newbie
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25. February 2009 @ 04:05 |
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UPDATE-----
Just encoded LOTR fellowship with Procoder 3 on Mastering setting using DVD-RB.Quality was actually pretty good, I was impressed, except for one scene at 51 minutes into the movie where they are in a pub, and the chubby hobbit (forget his name) is talking to Frodo, and I guess there is supposed to be some sort of dark shadow in the top right hand corner, It is all blocky and was completly noticeable on my 37'' LCD from a 15 foot distance from the TV. I was impressed up until that scene, then all my positive impressions suddenly went down the drain. Popped in the original dvd in my bd player and fast forwarded to the exact same scene and there was an obvious difference when switching from both versions on the same tv (backup was playing on my HD DVD player). I read that Procoder does seem to sometimes do this... I will recode a new backup using CCE SP and see what results that gives me.
If CCE fails, I guess I'll have to take out a DL disc and burn a 1:1 backup...
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Moderator
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25. February 2009 @ 06:21 |
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I can't comment on Procoder but i use HC Encoder primarily, have used it for the above movies and HC outputs amazing results. Haven't used CCE for a long time due to the quality of HC.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules *** |
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stavs16
Newbie
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25. February 2009 @ 14:34 |
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I just downloaded HC, what settings do you use in both the program itself and dvd rebuilder?
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stavs16
Newbie
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25. February 2009 @ 14:50 |
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Alright, I am using the default settings for HC, although I did change the settings from Normal to Best.
We'll see how this one turns out...
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Moderator
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25. February 2009 @ 15:13 |
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I've not messed with the settings. Just check the setting re multiple cores, HC is multi-core aware, can't remember exactly what the setting is called though
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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stavs16
Newbie
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25. February 2009 @ 17:53 |
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UPDATE 2----
Just encoded new version with HC,Quality was superb, but same scene at 51:31-51:35, look in the top left corner of your screen. HC did a bit better at remove some blocks, but they were still evident.
Check your version to see if you have it too Creaky, because chances are if you used HC, you'll probably have some limited macroblocking in those frames also.
I guess its time to bring out the DL discs..
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AfterDawn Addict
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25. February 2009 @ 18:19 |
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You may want to give some of the different matrices a try such as the AUTO-Q1 and AUTO-Q2 matrices and the use of the bitrate redistribution setting.
99% of all problems are between the computer and the chair.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2009 @ 18:20
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stavs16
Newbie
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25. February 2009 @ 19:19 |
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too late, already used a DL disc.
P.S. Does anyone seem to have this issue with their backup of the fellowship. Both Procoder 3 and now HC gave the exact same problem, HC's being a bit better, but still obvious. Its at 51:31-51:35 in the top left corner.
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AfterDawn Addict
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25. February 2009 @ 19:22 |
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I've done all 3 LOTR movies with bitrate redistribution, HC encoder and the AUTO-Q2 matrix and they look and play great on my 50in. HDTV.
99% of all problems are between the computer and the chair.
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stavs16
Newbie
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25. February 2009 @ 19:51 |
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alright I am trying that with the two towers right now, How do you know what custom matrix to use and when though, I see there is alot of them.
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AfterDawn Addict
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25. February 2009 @ 19:53 |
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Use the Matrix editor. It even has explanations on some of the matrices and when to use them.
99% of all problems are between the computer and the chair.
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stavs16
Newbie
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25. February 2009 @ 19:56 |
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Alright I am kind of confused now, I open the Auto Q2 matrix in the tab of the GUI and it says "matrix successfully loaded.
Now what do i do exactly?
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AfterDawn Addict
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25. February 2009 @ 19:58 |
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Make sure it's loaded in the options menu.
Click on Settings and then Options.
99% of all problems are between the computer and the chair.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2009 @ 19:59
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stavs16
Newbie
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25. February 2009 @ 20:04 |
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settings of rebuilder?
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AfterDawn Addict
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25. February 2009 @ 20:07 |
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Yes.
Go to Settings/Options/Advanced(Expert) Options/Quantization Matrices
99% of all problems are between the computer and the chair.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2009 @ 20:10
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stavs16
Newbie
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25. February 2009 @ 20:14 |
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alright, i figured it out, lol...
I wasnt saving the .ini file after changing the matrix to auto Q2 so it would go back to the default settings. But I think it works now. Its preparing right now
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stavs16
Newbie
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25. February 2009 @ 20:18 |
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here is what my ini file looks like
*BITRATE 4000
*AUTOGOP 15
*AQ 1
*CUSTOMMATRIX
8 16 19 22 26 28 32 38
16 16 22 24 28 32 38 44
19 22 26 28 32 38 44 48
22 22 26 32 38 44 48 54
22 26 32 38 44 48 54 64
26 32 38 44 48 54 64 74
32 38 44 48 54 64 74 84
38 44 48 54 64 74 84 94
16 20 24 28 36 42 46 52
20 24 28 36 42 46 52 58
24 28 36 42 46 52 58 62
28 36 42 46 52 58 62 68
36 42 46 52 58 62 68 78
42 46 52 58 62 68 78 88
46 52 58 62 68 78 88 99
52 58 62 68 78 88 99 99
does this appear to be right?
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AfterDawn Addict
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25. February 2009 @ 20:22 |
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Looks good.
99% of all problems are between the computer and the chair.
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stavs16
Newbie
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25. February 2009 @ 20:31 |
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will report back after watching the backup.
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stavs16
Newbie
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26. February 2009 @ 04:10 |
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After Watching two towers, I noticed that there was some minor macro blocking in some dark scenes of the movie, but the LOTR series is a real good trilogy, so I figure I am going to do the whole set with DL discs. I just picked up a bunch on sale anyways, so its not too bad, 25 pack for 15 bucks, decent make too.
In other thoughts, I have come to the consensus that all encoders whether its procoder,HC, or CCE suffer trying to remake dark scenes especially at lower bitrate levels, your guaranteed to see some. Other than dark scenes, the LOTR backups I made were very impressive.
Although when I went to go pause the scene to go get something from the kitchen, as I was walking by the screen, I saw all these large macroblocks (due to low bitrate) which could not be seen from where I was sitting. In fact, from where I was sitting, you probably could barely if it was the backup or original copy playing.
Anyways, I have made an educated decision that from now one, anything under 60% compression or at least 3000 kbps (will have to evaluate this level) will be getting burned to DL (1:1 copy) and anything over will just go through HC or CCE.
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Moderator
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26. February 2009 @ 04:59 |
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I haven't used any matrices yet, i expect to (potentially) deal with a few minor differences from the original discs. I have however had amazing results from HC for the Battlestar Galactica series, some of which ae down to the 44% video compression level, more amazing due to the amount of dark scenes in the series.
As i say i expect to have a few minor differences to an original, in my case i am all about the story within a movie or series, as opposed to whether the quality is very stightly less than an original disc :)
edited due to spelling
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. February 2009 @ 14:44
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stavs16
Newbie
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26. February 2009 @ 14:31 |
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I'm not sure if this would help or not, but have you guys tried the luminance gain feature?
You can adjust it to either 1, 2, or 3. By default it is set at 0. This may be a solution to solving this problem, but it would probably alot of trial and error.
How does HC perform with higher bitrates and compressions say 65% and up?
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. February 2009 @ 23:22 |
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There are a lot of settings you can adjust. Did you try to give more bitrate to the areas that you say have blocks?
99% of all problems are between the computer and the chair.
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stavs16
Newbie
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27. February 2009 @ 18:33 |
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Well, just for curiosity, I decided to use CCE SP2 1.0.01.5 (lastest build i believe), and the results were very surprising, I know alot of people usually take down towards CCE lately because of the overgrowing popularity of HC, Prodocer, QUenc etc, but believe it or not, CCE on its default settings produced the best picture. During both slow and fast scenes, CCE looks virtually the same as the HC backup, and during the dark scenes, CCE produced no visual sings of blocking (other than pausing the tv while the frames are in transition). I think I am going to keep using CCE, its been good to me, and still continues to stay produce astounding quality.
What did strike me though is that I have used both CCE SP and SP2 and I recently used SP2 for this rip (trial version).
This kind of caught my eye a bit
New enhancements
- Changes of GUI
- Automatic resolution conversion function on DVD/SVCD/VCD mode
- Automatic file size calculation
- 3:2 pulldown
- Automatic adding of encoding pass for more accurate inverse 3:2 pulldown
- De-interlacing function
- 4:1:1 -> 4:2:2 interpolation
- Allow adaptive quantization matrices switching for multi-pass VBR
- Provide an option of outputting bottom field first stream
- Y and C parameters for dithered quantization
- Automatic switching of block scan order
- Blanking function
- Quality improvement in fades on a static scene
- Adjustment for black frames
- Monochrome encoding mode
- Save/load template to/from file
- Reuse of the last modified parameter setting
- Save/load a chapter list
- Shut down the system when finished encoding
- Play sound when finished encoding
Could be that this new version handles black frames better than the previous, either way, visually, there was NO macroblocking at all in my CCE rip.
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