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Enquiry on a PC Upgrade! Need help and advice please!
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Senior Member
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19. June 2009 @ 09:47 |
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Hello,
Firstly I'd like to say I'm based in the UK so I probably buy it off ebay as the prices are cheaper there then most online stores anyway. So here's my problem;
I have an really old desktop here and not a lot of money. The desktop is a Dimension 2400 Dell PC, these are the basic specs:
http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/dell-di...7-30824846.html
The only difference is the ram is 256 ram which I will upgrade to 4 gig soon.
The only thing I have changed to the computer are that I've changed bother the Drives and upgraded them to DL burner and DVD reader.
The processor is a Intel Pentium 4 CPU with 2.4GHz and the graphics card is some random crap one called Intel 82845G Graphics Controller and I'm running on Windows XP 2002 Professional Service Pack 3.
I've been running on this computer for quite some time and I can't even play games such as half life 2 or counter strike in low specs and I get computer freezes watching HD videos online and off.
Anyway I've been researching quite a bit on graphics card and that, I'm a bit poor at the moment so I can't get the best graphics card out on the market today I just need a good graphics card that will play the latest games such as crysis at the average specs, I don't need full blown highest specs as my monitor is only about 16 inch lcd and quite old so I probablly won't notice the difference. Money is quite a big factor here on deciding what graphics card I will get so any advice is helpful. Also do I need to upgrade my processor at all or is that fine. Lastly when I look at some prices for RAM for some reason the lower speed rams are higher priced then the slower ones even though there all 4gb, for example:
http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/koybe-inc_...b&submit=Search
Anyway to sum up, I would appreciate advice on what graphics card I should get, if I need to upgrade my processor or anything else (I don't care about the sound if it's in hd/surround etc) and the question about the ram and if you could point me to which ram I should buy out of those in the link I posted.
I have been told my mother board would only accept up to 2 gig DDR and the so called graphics card is a chip probably with the motherboard, what are my options now!?
Thank You,
-3dluis
PS2 Slimline + Swap Magic + Fan
PS3 60gb Version 1.90
PSP 3.52 M33 EUR Black Version + Logitech Hard Case + Logitech 3 Sound Speakers + 2gb Sony Memory Stick
Nintendo Wii + 3 Wii&Nunchuck Controllers
NDS Original + M3 Simply + 1gb Kingston MicroSD
NDS Lite + M3 Simply + 2gb Sandisk MicroSD
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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20. June 2009 @ 18:30 |
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Ok well firstly, don't buy off ebay. Unless you get second hand stuff, the components aren't any cheaper, trust me, I've looked. If you know where to buy stuff, you get better deals than ebay, much better (though that's not to say there aren't occasional gems on there, but a whole PC will cost much more)
Dell PCs are inherently un-upgradeable. They won't accept new motherboards, CPUs, power supplies or high end graphics cards. The fact that your current PC is so old also makes what upgrades you make counter-productive, since you are limited to 2GB of memory (which is tight now, most gaming PCs should really have at least 3GB, preferably 4). You also really need a dual core processor nowadays, which that system almost certainly won't accept.
Long story short, build a whole new system and keep the disk drives. This need not be expensive, you can get a reasonable CPU, Motherboard, RAM, Graphics card, Power Supply and Case for around the £300 mark, that will let you play Crysis at reasonably good settings, especially since you use a very small screen. However, I need to know what your budget is. If it's any less than about £200, playing modern games is out the window.
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Senior Member
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22. June 2009 @ 06:59 |
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Hey thanks for the reply, uhm i've decided to build a new pc then, well I was looking round maplin and I found this deal, can you tell me if this is any good?!
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=229200
Here was the catogory it is in:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/family.aspx?menu=1647&MenuName=Motherboards%20+%20Bundles
If not can you recommend me a deal based within the uk, for a decent processor+motherboard bundle or seperate items, I have about 350 is around my budget range mate.
Thanks again,
3dluis
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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22. June 2009 @ 07:16 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. June 2009 @ 07:17
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Senior Member
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22. June 2009 @ 18:31 |
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Okay cheers for that, wouldn't I also need to buy a sound card and hard drive to boot!? And is any case okay thats ATX or does it have to be that case you have linked me to. Also the same question with the power, does it have to be 400?!
Thanks,
3dluis
Edit: such as this one:
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/CiT-2036-...se-Inc-450W-PSU
Which comes already with a PSU so that save me from buying a power supply!?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. June 2009 @ 18:35
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AfterDawn Addict
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22. June 2009 @ 18:34 |
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Since you didn't post one earlier, I assumed you'd be using the drive from the old PC. You can get a new drive if you like, but will need to cut down on that parts list or expand the budget to fit it. All motherboards have decent onboard sound so you don't really need a sound card. The PSU is the cheapest one I recommend without quality issues, the wattage figure is almost irrelevant.
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Senior Member
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23. June 2009 @ 02:56 |
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What do you mean quality issues with power? Does it like die out or something!?
Thanks again,
3dluis.
PS2 Slimline + Swap Magic + Fan
PS3 60gb Version 1.90
PSP 3.52 M33 EUR Black Version + Logitech Hard Case + Logitech 3 Sound Speakers + 2gb Sony Memory Stick
Nintendo Wii + 3 Wii&Nunchuck Controllers
NDS Original + M3 Simply + 1gb Kingston MicroSD
NDS Lite + M3 Simply + 2gb Sandisk MicroSD
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 09:04 |
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Yes, cheap power supplies can't achieve their rated wattage, and have inferior components inside which make them prone to poorly regulated currents (damages the other parts of the computer over time) and if they go, they can take other parts of your computer with them - so always go with a top brand (Corsair being one of the best).
I've looked over the components and Sam's made an amazing computer for the budget you have, though it's a shame that Scan stopped selling a £56 9800GT the other day :(
And @ Sam - Wondering why you picked that case in particular? (I don't know the build qualities of many case manufacturers, so maybe I can learn something :P )
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB |
AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 12:46 |
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3dluis: Worse than that, cheap PSUs can wreck the rest of the system when they go pop.
shokz: It was about the only low cost case in stock at Scan at the time, both the ones I usually recommend were pre-order.
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Senior Member
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23. June 2009 @ 14:06 |
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okay lastly before I buy,
is there any other cases I can get or does it have to be that one you recommended? any atx case is usuable or ..?
Also what about the network card or is that also with the motherboard?!
edit:
also is the 9600GT better hten the card you recommended me? and will the card you recommended me be able to play crysis fine!?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. June 2009 @ 14:07
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 14:12 |
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The 9600GT performs very similarly to the HD4670, there's not much to gain by switching to it. You can use any ATX case, I simply chose that one because it was cheap.
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Senior Member
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23. June 2009 @ 14:28 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. June 2009 @ 14:31
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 14:51 |
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It looks like it might, so don't use it.
The Asus case is fine as well, and that can save you some money.
The network card is integrated into all motherboards.
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 16:14 |
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Been thinking about the graphics card... It really is a huge shame that Scan have stopped selling that £56 9800GT, since that was definitely the best bang for buck i've seen any time recently.
The thing is, the HD4670 isn't a bad card, but it isn't a great card either; if you go with it you'll be looking at playing Crysis on medium settings - and it certainly doesn't look bad at that - but it goes to show that the card probably won't play the graphically intensive games of the future very well. At the end of the day it depends on what you're happy with settling for and how much you can reasonably spend.
Been looking everywhere for a good deal on some of the cards a little higher up the ladder but they're just not there. Again, at Scan, the HD4850 for £75 is a pretty good deal in the absence of the 9800GT but you'll have to wait for stock: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/512MB-Asu...x-DL-DVI-I-HDTV
It is still £18 over the HD4670 but for me at least the performance increase would be worth it. The cheapest GTS250 is only £10 more than that, but i think if you want the sweet spot it's the HD4850 right now - all in all it depends if you're prepared to fork out an extra £20 and wait a little and see if they get stock...
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. June 2009 @ 16:14
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 16:17 |
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 17:01 |
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Sam, i just did something rather interesting :D (and it'll let you go "hah!" at me for buying a GTX260)
I've taken the aggregate scores from Tom's Hardware for each of the cards listed below and compared them with the cheapest price for each card; the first column is the card name, the second is the raw FPS total from all games tested, the third is the price of the card, and the fourth is price divided by FPS value, therefore giving an effective "pounds paid per frame per second" (eg; 0.30 - 30p).
For the HD4770 the price i used was the one you gave, but there's a pre-order for a cheaper one and that's what's in the brackets.
HD4670 - 185 - £56 - 0.30
HD4770 - 292 - £82 - 0.28 (£73 - 0.25)
HD4850 - 319 - £76 - 0.24
GTS250 - 370 - £85 - 0.23
HD4870 - 408 - £98 - 0.24
-Cards below this line are just for reference (and for Sam to look at)-
GTX260 - 450 - £121 - 0.27
HD4890 - 460 - £140 - 0.30
GTX275 - 538 - £172 - 0.32
GTX285 - 580 - £240 - 0.41
HD4870X2 611 - £240 - 0.39
GTX295 - 771 - £350 - 0.45
I was actually slightly shocked to see the GTS250 be the best bang for buck of them all, and best of all, it's in stock; http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/512MB-Asu...HDTV-DVI-Retail
So, 3dluis, give that table the once over and see which card for which price seems the most appealing to you.
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 17:04 |
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They reviewed the 1GB HD4870 which you omitted.
Also, did you balance the scores by weight? If you add them up, clearly the games that get higher frame rates take up more of the scores than the demanding ones, when the most demanding games are the most important.
Edit:
Toms hardware overall tests are irrelevant. This is why:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/geforce-gt...w-31608-12.html
Interestingly enough, if the comments are to be believed, two of the people on the review team work for nvidia.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. June 2009 @ 17:09
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 17:16 |
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Yeah, i read that - and i admit it's the most biased test i've ever seen, but the charts i took the values from were done a while before that one. No, i didn't use weighted values (mainly because Tom's Hardware's method for weightings is a bit weird anyway), but i felt it's still a pretty good indication of the overall performance of the cards.
All things considered, any one of the HD4850, GTS250 and HD4870 is going to manage modern graphically intensive games fine (read Crysis on "high" ^.^), and as shown, they're all at really good price points.
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. June 2009 @ 17:16
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 17:18 |
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Either way, bias and corruption is meant to have been rife in THG for years. It's only really a useful test for comparing the nvidia cards with each other. Cross-brand comparisons do not represent real values.
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 17:22 |
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Hold on a second, even if it is the case that two of the team work for nVidia, i doubt they'd actually alter values, and aside from in that test, quality settings are the same across the board, plus, you have to admit that the card placings by rank seem expectable.
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 17:24 |
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A lot of them are about right, but tests like the last remnant completely destroy which tests are right and wrong. I'll be posting a more accurate benchmark of crysis shortly.
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 17:26 |
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Interesting you should say that, i was just on the hunt for a Crysis bench that had a wide range of cards :P
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 17:27 |
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I am using the Bit-tech test which compares the HD4830, HD4850, HD4770, GTS250 (512MB & 1GB) and HD4870 1GB - I will then cross-reference the scores to add in the HD4870 512MB, HD4890, GTX275, GTX280, GTX285, HD4850X2, HD4870X2, GTX295 and GTX280 SLI.
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 17:35 |
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Crysis tests (Balanced by resolution & AA weight)
Detail: High (DX10)
Resolution: 1280x1024, 1280x1024 2x, 1280x1024 4x, 1680x1050, 1680x1050 4x, 1920x1200.
HD4830: 415.9
HD4770: 497.0
HD4850: 549.1
GTS250: 660.2
GTS250 1GB: 686.2
HD4870 1GB: 718.5
It is of course worth remembering that Crysis is an nvidia-biased title, and its performance characteristics do not match more even games on the market.
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. June 2009 @ 17:43 |
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How's the HD4870 512MB stack up (since it's something like £20 cheaper)? Still impressed by the GTS250, i thought it'd only be a little above the HD4850 (from remembering the old 9800GTX).
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB
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