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Are Sony getting out of SACD?
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Senior Member
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19. July 2004 @ 12:00 |
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Prisoner
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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4. August 2004 @ 16:13 |
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I dont think that means anything. With the amount of Sony players and money invested in SACD, I can`t see them running just yet.
I am not a number
I am a Free Man
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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4. August 2004 @ 17:45 |
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Sony is always innovative but they?re not always able to capitalize on it. The Betamax was better than VHS and yet it lost. Does anyone remember the L-Cassette? I thought it was great but it went fast. Fortunately they?ve had enough successes to stay afloat. We definitely need a replacement for the aging CD format but the question is which evolving format will it be replaced by?
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
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Senior Member
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5. August 2004 @ 00:08 |
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Both good points.
What I still fail to comprehend is why Sony always feel the need to develop their own format for anything that comes out.
Why can they not see that it would be advantageous for the whole industry to unite behind a single format?
They & Philips cannot be that opposed to DVD-A as they both hold DVD-A patents.
Therefore it must be greed - wanting to own it all instead of being content with a portion.
If there were only a single high res format, there would not be the customer confusion we see now, either.
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RCBabcock
Junior Member
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9. August 2004 @ 15:13 |
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Sony seems to feel it has to be the owner of the format, not a participant. Truly sad. Now Blu-Ray looks to be the next casualty. I just read that the Playstation 3 will feature a BluRay DVD drive, which in a sense is cool, but it looks like that format has already lost the format was. Didn't Microsoft adopt HD-DVD?
Another clash of titans dividing the market and confusing consumers.
BTW, I love SACD & DVD-A, but in a sense I'd like to see SACD die off. We don't need them both and PCM is more scaleable that DSD. And DVD-A sounds better (IMOHO).
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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9. August 2004 @ 15:32 |
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What I still fail to comprehend is why Sony always feel the need to develop their own format for anything that comes out.
Just about every innovative product that Sony developed resulted in a proprietary system of some kind. Their collaboration on the CD format with Philips saved their behinds. If they?d licensed other companies to manufacture the Beta format before VHS took root and talked to the film industry, VHS never would have won. But while Sony was trying to go it alone with the Betamax, JVC was licensing the rest of Japan to make and sell VHS (Vertical Helical Scan, not Video Home System)while talking to Hollywood.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. August 2004 @ 15:34
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Senior Member
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25. August 2004 @ 07:21 |
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icuupoo
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5. September 2004 @ 01:28 |
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i think sony wants to make there own format for everything cuz they got the money to do. So they're taking the risk and thinking up alot of ideas... good or not.
by the way, anyone got info bout the Blu-ray disc sony is making?
"The hardest part about sitting down is standing up"
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Senior Member
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5. September 2004 @ 03:00 |
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Blu-Ray is IBM, if memory serves - and is still at the vapourware stage in reality.
My honest opinion is that we will be staying with DVD for at least another decade, maybe more. Higher capacity media may well get developed, and carve a little niche for itself, but nothing more.
Why?
Because both the movie industry and the Audio industry are still seriously concerned about Piracy - and considering the hesitation before getting into DVD as it currently is, and the potential revenue losses, I don't see them going for anything with higher resolution any time too soon - because of not only piracy but the millions of dollars already put into the DVD releases & development.
That aside, they can only sell back catalogue so many times. It will again be 10 years plus, probably nearer 20, before the DVD runs out of life.
There is nothing wrong with it's quality, and HDTV has not got going yet either, and when it does the actual resolutions are not going to change.
HD video will remain a professional format for editing & archiving - not a consumer one as they will never agree on one standard.
Sony will develop their own version, as they do with everything else.
So will Philips, Hitachi, JVC, Mitsubusi & uncle tom cobley and all.
Another reason against the consumer viability of BluRay or anything else like it is that there will simply not be the public demand.
It will mean new players, new TV's, new everything. And that is if a standard can ever be agreed on.
Currently, DVD will hold enough information for a full length movie, at perfectly acceptable quality, so why change it - from an industry point of view, what are you going to put on a disc that holds ten times more information?
Not ten films, that's for sure - they want to sell you ten individual ones, and not high resolution either, as that will be the same as releasing an actual master grade copy - which for all sorts of reasons will never happen.
IF it ever happens, it will be strictly Pro use for production & working/storage.
Never as a consumer format.
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Prisoner
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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8. September 2004 @ 14:04 |
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I think the comment is geared as Sony anounce that it will have Blu-ray support on the Playstation 3 (PS3) out some time in 2005. So some spec should be kicking around. I would rather see HD-DVD take off.
Back to topic I think Sony is paying off enough to keep with SACD for a while. And this could be the next generation of (noisy) high quality Audio.
I am not a number
I am a Free Man
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A_Klingon
Moderator
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11. September 2004 @ 23:30 |
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Just to add mayhem to confusion, maybe what we need need now is a third 100% incompatible-but-unmistakenly superior system to put to BED all the hi-res format wars once and for all.
Blue-ray is not that far away, Neil. Not at least, if you can believe all the web news reports. DVD (audio and video) may indeed be around for another 10-20 years -- cd is still with us -- but you know what I would love to see?
A totally non-video-related format that does not, and never *will* need a video monitor to set up, or a menuing system to choose tracks (just like cd).
How about a 3" blu-ray minidisc for the purpose?
You put the disc into your player, and it starts playing back.
Period.
Just like Edison's wax cylinders; 78-rpm shellacs; 33-1/3 LP and 45 rpm singles; open reel; 8-track, Elcassette; audio-cassette; DAT, Music-CD, .......
NO VIDEO NECESSARY.
If you want the video, admittedly desireable in some cases, then get a DVD concert video or something.
The playback unit's simple front panel display would be all that we would need to choose between stereo or multi-channel, (if surround sound were available), easily selectable with our remote controls.
Video is nice, but everyone's obsession with it is severely complicating matters. Audio and video are hopelessly intertwined, yes, but people should be asking themselves -- 'What do I *really* want to do? Watch a nifty rock concert [a totally viable choice] OR be transported into a wondrous world of no-holds-barred audio Nirvana?'
When I listen to music, Neil, I don't want to "think". Or at least, I don't want to *have* to think unless I choose to. I don't want MTV-like "Eye-Candy" staring me in the face with it's irritating, split-second, dizzying, rapidly-changing video scenes. I want to close my eyes, and any "video" I see will take place in my head, thank-you-very-much. I want the music to take me where ONLY the wonderful musicians can take me *minus* the menus! When I listen to, for example, Pink Floyd, I can 'see' in my mind's-eye all the images I want or need, which is a testament to their outstanding musicianship.
I would be *totally* happy to let (say) YOU master the tracks for me, the songwriters to write the material, the musicians to play it, and to hell with the cameramen! Seriously, if you want to watch Bruce Willis shoot up the bad guys, then go rent a dvd or something. YOU gentlemen would do all the 'thinking' _for_ me -- odd as that may sound -- I would like to see all the above-named people collectively pool their considerable artistic and imaginative talents to allow me to relax after a miserable day at work, and transport me on a wave of sonic wonderment that no video ever did or *could* do !!!
The current situation is pitiful ! I can't say for sure, but I do believe I got more sheer musical enjoyment as a grade-school kid listening to my 8-transistor radio than I do now listening to cds.
Although they are related, (audio+video), I think people should make a choice. What do you want? The present chaos, or the finest AUDIO-ONLY experience you can possibly get?
Damn! I get weary of these farking wars. I get tired of VIDEO derailing what High-Resolution audio is all about. I think Sony and Warner Brothers should both go pound sand up ....... < > .
No, seriously though ..... [oh christ, I don't wanna start soap-boxing], but .... simply, a musician can take you to places that a blockbuster video never *will*. I think we all need to get back to what this is all about - the Music !
Note to Wilkes: (all rar files received - thank you!). There are some *fantastic* articles in those pdf files.
An anonymous member just PM'd me a picture of your DAW (Digital Audio Workstation). I don't know how he managed to sneak into your studio, but is *this* [below] really what results after a hard day at the office ? :
See Ya !!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. September 2004 @ 23:52
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Senior Member
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12. September 2004 @ 04:39 |
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Oh - I agree.
But you don't need a TV to use DVD-A.
Not if it's authored correctly.....
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ByteMstr
Newbie
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12. September 2004 @ 07:10 |
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Err.. Personally, I wouldn't mind a simple menu system, just track numbers or an album number/track number system. It should optionally include TEXT for disc artist/disc (album) title and for every track the track title. It's not that important for home systems, but it's nice for portables and/or car audio.
I think formats will fail if you can't "roll-your-own" (this may include transference to another medium) for the portable and/or the car.
However, there are also commercial considerations. Music-DVD(V)s sell. So, it stands to reason that this will need to be replaced with an HDTV with high res audio version. And people don't want separate systems, they want "pop-in and play".
Perhaps these can be authored in such a way that, dependent on the player, they behave differently. Like a dual-menu system; the audio players look at the audio_menu, the video players at the video_menu. For just audio, these discs will waste a lot of real estate on video, so it's logical to have "audio-only" discs (maybe including a smaller size version). Video-players should accept these just like Commodore's CDTV did back in 1991 [that was before Philips' CD-i]. There's a built-in program that shows on screen the number of tracks, the current track, minutes:seconds played, etc. You didn't need this, but, if you had a monitor connected, it wouldn't be pitch black.
It's important that they be introduced at the same time, fully downward compatible players(*), and people told about the differences.
(*) I mean that for instance the tray should be engineered to accept 12", 8" and 3" or whatever. A small handy portable player that accepts only 3" discs should be possible.
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A_Klingon
Moderator
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12. September 2004 @ 09:41 |
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ByteMstr, if we ever have to revert back to 12" (or even 8") discs again, we're doomed ! :-) No..... I think 5" and under will remain king for the forseeable future.
And really, all you need is a concise, accurate track-listing in the booklet (liner insert and/or back cover) to know which track is where.
Wilkes, you are right, all DVD-A's should ideally be mastered so that a menu is not strictly necessary (so why include one at all?), but *are* all DVD-A's mastered that way? I don't have enough DVD-A's in my collection to know for sure, but I can't help thinking that since there IS a menu on all DVD-A releases, I can't help believing I *will* be missing something if I _don't_ view the darn thing. (I'm not talking about the pretty, still-images.)
If there were no menus, just audio, the question would be moot. Just pop the disc in and enjoy.
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Senior Member
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13. September 2004 @ 01:19 |
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That's the beauty of the hybrid discs.
Pop them into either a car player, or an "Audio Only" one, and they still play just fine, as a CD does.
Pop them into a Universal, and you also get the video content, and pop them into a DVD-V player and you can [i[still enjoy the music.
DVD-A/V can still be played on every type of DVD player - that is the whole point.
And in theory at least, you don't need a menu - or else it would not play in a car player, would fail verification & not be able to be replicated. It is only the home cooked discs that can be problematic, and usually because the authors have no knowledge of the specs.....
Education is king.
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A_Klingon
Moderator
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13. September 2004 @ 22:55 |
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Yes, but you are referring to hybrid discs.
If I walk into my retail music store today, how many hybrid DVD-A/V discs will I find?
(Can I count the number on one hand? -- No hands?)
Compared to most DVD-A's, most SCADs are hybrids. (And it doesn't matter if they aren't), and most commercial DVDAs are not.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. September 2004 @ 22:57
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Senior Member
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14. September 2004 @ 06:39 |
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Should actually be most of them!
The hybrid that will really work will be DualDisc, which is going to be CD/DVD disc.
Trouble is, Sony are going to use a DVD-V layer. Which to my mind will be a seriously missed opportunity, as there is nothing you can put onto a DVD-V disc that cannot also go onto a DVD-A.
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