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Anyone else frustrated with Geohotz?
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zopahftw
Newbie
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17. April 2010 @ 12:08 |
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So, I know he's meant to be a crusader for the open system cause, but I can't help but feel he really screwed up this time. Here's why.
With the iPhone, Apple likely made a profit on each unit sold, and then, through their partnership with AT&T, they made a tidy profit after that on each unit. Geohotz allowing maybe at most, 5% of iPhone users to run custom firmware, since only 5% have the time, technical ability and motivation to install CFW and use it on a different carrier. So, Apple still made money on those iPhones from the initial sale, and the fact that the other 95% were still making them money meant that the iPhone only required infrequent patching to ensure the unlocked iPhones didn't become a widespread thing by, while also convincing legitimate customers that there were measures being taken to ensure they weren't being screwed (more). So in that respect, Geohotz did a noble thing.
However, with the PS3, Sony didn't take too well to Geohotz's access to the hypervisor. In fact, I think that's the feistiest reaction I've seen since they clamped down on imports way back before release day. There's a damn good reason. CFW inevitably leads to piracy. Before someone fires into white-knight mode about being able to do whatever we should wanna do with hardware we paid upwards of $300 for, yes, that is true, but with current laws, that's something we don't really have a right to demand anymore. Piracy will starve Sony of profits. Sony makes a loss on the initial sale, so they count on legitimate game sales to make up for that. Personally, I use OtherOS and I play online, well, at least I did. I'm a freelance technician and so the Linux installation on my PS3 has always been subject to experiments. I'm certain I'm not alone in this. Not only has Geohotz removed OtherOS support; I'm certain Sony will be clamping down on other legitimate features soon, in case Geohotz assesses them.
What really gets me, is Geohotz is pushing this custom firmware out regardless. That's just inconsiderate of the rest of the community. Anyone else share my insight, or am I barking up the wrong tree?
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Senior Member
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17. April 2010 @ 12:15 |
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GeoHotz hasn't done anything on me or my PS3, so no im not frustrated with him.
I am however frustrated with Sony, they want to take a function away from my console, im also frustrated with the people blaming GeoHot on the removal of the Other OS, it wasn't his fault, regardless of what propaganda Sony or the "fanboys" feed you.
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zopahftw
Newbie
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17. April 2010 @ 12:18 |
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Originally posted by marcusita:
GeoHotz hasn't done anything on me or my PS3, so no im not frustrated with him.
I am however frustrated with Sony, they want to take a function away from my console, im also frustrated with the people blaming GeoHot on the removal of the Other OS, it wasn't his fault, regardless of what propaganda Sony or the "fanboys" feed you.
So Sony would have removed OtherOS regardless of Geohotz? I doubt this very highly.
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Senior Member
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17. April 2010 @ 12:30 |
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Originally posted by zopahftw:
So Sony would have removed OtherOS regardless of Geohotz? I doubt this very highly.
Of course, take the slim for example, there are many other features that Sony has removed, to save them money or save time, Other OS was just one of them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. April 2010 @ 12:43
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zopahftw
Newbie
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17. April 2010 @ 13:01 |
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Originally posted by marcusita:
Originally posted by zopahftw:
So Sony would have removed OtherOS regardless of Geohotz? I doubt this very highly.
Of course, take the slim for example, there are many other features that Sony has removed, to save them money or save time, Other OS was just one of them.
However, it was removed from the old PS3s, which Sony had no reason to touch. I know you'll argue and say they were gunna do it anyway, but they wouldn't remove an old feature just for the hell of it. It was removed from newer hardware due to the extra hardware costs. The old hardware shouldn't have been effected.
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Senior Member
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17. April 2010 @ 13:19 |
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Originally posted by zopahftw:
I know you'll argue and say they were gunna do it anyway, but they wouldn't remove an old feature just for the hell of it. It was removed from newer hardware due to the extra hardware costs. The old hardware shouldn't have been effected.
Im not arguing, im stating fact, i can see the bigger picture, because im not a fanboy.
In order to keep the Other OS on the fat PS3, Sony would have to maintain it and update the drivers, etc, costing them money, removing the Other OS saves them some money :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. April 2010 @ 13:22
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Senior Member
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17. April 2010 @ 13:20 |
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Sorry, double post :(
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. April 2010 @ 13:21
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zopahftw
Newbie
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17. April 2010 @ 13:23 |
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Originally posted by marcusita:
Originally posted by zopahftw:
I know you'll argue and say they were gunna do it anyway, but they wouldn't remove an old feature just for the hell of it. It was removed from newer hardware due to the extra hardware costs. The old hardware shouldn't have been effected.
Im not arguing, im stating fact, i can see the bigger picture, because im not a fanboy.
In order to keep the Other OS, Sony would have to maintain it and update the drivers, etc, costing them money, removing the Other OS saves them some money :)
...your argument is nonsensical. Sony didn't do any maintaining for OtherOS for the old PS3. All the drivers were developed at release day and were provided to the Linux community. Sony haven't had to touch the OtherOS feature since then, as the drivers and development was all within whatever Linux distro you chose to install on the PS3. Sony washed their hands of it years ago, because all the OtherOS feature actually is, is a system to allow the installation of a secondary OS alongside the PS3's firmware. Before you question someone who actually understands how the PS3 system works, get your facts straight. In fact, just go look through previous patch updates. No mention of OtherOS for a long time prior to Geohotz touching the console.
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Newbie
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17. April 2010 @ 13:25 |
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Sony removed the OtherOS from the slim when it was released, and they were getting very tight with what access to hardware they were allowing via OtherOS on the fat ps3's. I am sure sony have just used the excuse of to block a security breach, and were probrably going to do it at some point or another anyway, GeoHot just gave them an opportunity to avoid penalty as it would of breached several laws if they had removed it without any visable threat to security.
Sony were also losing money on each fat console that was sold, so by removing OtherOS from all ps3's it allows them to drop the department that was in charge of OtherOS development, allowing them to cut back even further on money spent on the developing for the console.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. April 2010 @ 13:27
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Senior Member
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17. April 2010 @ 13:35 |
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Originally posted by zopahftw:
Before you question someone who actually understands how the PS3 system works, get your facts straight. In fact, just go look through previous patch updates. No mention of OtherOS for a long time prior to Geohotz touching the console.
I wouldnt get touchy or over zealous if i were you, i know more than enough about the PS3, i have been in the scene for 3+ years, so dont try and justify your ignorance and misunderstanding of why GeoHot did what he did, by being rude to me :)
This rubbish you state about Sony not mentioning the Other OS in updates is moot, they often dont mention certain features, etc.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. April 2010 @ 13:36
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zopahftw
Newbie
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17. April 2010 @ 13:40 |
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Originally posted by marcusita:
Originally posted by zopahftw:
Before you question someone who actually understands how the PS3 system works, get your facts straight. In fact, just go look through previous patch updates. No mention of OtherOS for a long time prior to Geohotz touching the console.
I wouldnt get touchy or over zealous if i were you, i know more than enough about the PS3, i have been in the scene for 3+ years, so dont try and justify your ignorance and misunderstanding of why GeoHot did what he did, by being rude to me :)
This rubbish you state about Sony not mentioning the Other OS in updates is moot, they often dont mention certain features, etc.
And they also don't mention features that don't get updated. There's nothing to update. There'd be a noticeable difference in the OtherOS installation or even just using the Linux kernel if that occured, and I've reinstalled Linux on there sufficient times to have picked up on that. GeoHot is the sort of guy who finds it cool to break into stuff with no regard for the consequences for people who DON'T pirate things, which seems to be the minority on this site.
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Senior Member
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17. April 2010 @ 13:47 |
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Originally posted by zopahftw:
GeoHot is the sort of guy who finds it cool to break into stuff with no regard for the consequences for people who DON'T pirate things, which seems to be the minority on this site.
GeoHot has nothing to do with Piracy, so im sure he is sympathetic with your situation, also saying that most people on this site are pirates, isnt fair :(
I have a 360, have had it for 2+ years, it isnt "hacked", same as when a hack comes out for the PS3, i wont be using it either, so im not a pirate :)
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Newbie
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17. April 2010 @ 13:56 |
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@zopahftw
Dont be stupid, He found an exploit to allow access to hardware that was being surpressed by sony adding limitations as to what could be done on OtherOS, Every update that was released for the ps3 since OtherOS was released would need updates the the OtherOS feature,
A: to prevent exploits being found in the new code,
B: to ensure smooth operation of OtherOS remained after changes were made to the GameOS.
GeoHot has also actively said he does not condone or support piracy,and hasnt done anything other than give the public an exploit that will lead to the full use of the hardware available via OtherOS. Even his cfw (when it gets released wont allow homebrew or pirated games to be run on the GameOS.
Try doing some research before getting involved in an arguement next time.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. April 2010 @ 15:24
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harkinsr9
Junior Member
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17. April 2010 @ 16:39 |
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i agree i think sony intended to remove os regardless they must of known that allowing folks to install os would lead to the console being hacked every other console has been hacked in the past sony just cocked up and used geohot as an excuse
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AfterDawn Addict
3 product reviews
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17. April 2010 @ 17:58 |
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End of the day, GH didnt remove the otherOS feature, sony did. Im well impressed with GH, flame me if you want but thats my feeling on the matter.
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SDF_GR
Member
1 product review
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18. April 2010 @ 21:44 |
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Geohot DID remove the OtherOS thats a fact.
how???
He gave sony the best excuse to remove it.
Sony wanted to get rid of the otherOS cause (as Marcus already said) they want to stop making 10 different versions of the same FW every time.
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. April 2010 @ 22:17 |
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Sony started removing OtherOS when they released the Slim which did not have it at the start. This was before Geohot started messing with the PS3. So Sony would have removed it sooner or later without ever seeing Geohot's progress.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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18. April 2010 @ 23:35 |
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Originally posted by SDF_GR:
He gave sony the best excuse to remove it.
That is like saying, "The cop did commit suicide, he gave me a reason to shoot him the he head!"
GeoHot did not enable anything useful for piracy. He did not break the PS3 OS, and he did not even start work on the CFW until Sony removed Linux support for it (BTW...a PUP firmware file can be installed without linux, so removing linux does nothing to stop the installation of a CFW anyhow). Also, GeoHot's work on the PS3 was targeted at getting full access to the system from Linux. This would have little if any application towards piracy, as he was not even attempting to break the PS3 file system. Sony knew that he had not found anything useful for piracy, and they also knew that if someone could somehow use this hack for piracy, that they did not need up to date firmware to do it anyway.
In short, GeoHot's work prior to the release of FW 3.21 was completely useless towards the development of anything that might lead to piracy...and his current work could very easily lead to piracy; but he has no choice about this...Sony blamed him for the removal of OtherOS, and so he needs to clear his name by bringing it back.
...So stop bashing him for killing OtherOS, and start bashing him for taking too long to release a CFW.
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Senior Member
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19. April 2010 @ 08:39 |
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Originally posted by KillerBug:
In short, GeoHot's work prior to the release of FW 3.21 was completely useless towards the development of anything that might lead to piracy...and his current work could very easily lead to piracy; but he has no choice about this...Sony blamed him for the removal of OtherOS, and so he needs to clear his name by bringing it back.
...So stop bashing him for killing OtherOS, and start bashing him for taking too long to release a CFW.
Well said :)
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SDF_GR
Member
1 product review
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19. April 2010 @ 21:03 |
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@killerbug
I didnt say that sony was right and GH wrong, or that gh enable piracy (that i dont think that he can anyway) but you are right i am bushing him, cause i think that he is a clown.... but i admit that the fact is that sony used him.
Sony for sure wanted to get rid the otherOS but as i said GH was a really great excuse and i am sure that you have read comments like "bravo sony" and "if that helps PS3 not to become a PSP etc....then we are with you sony".
Many people actually believed this excuse, and to be honest when i 1st reed sony's blog my 1st thought was to GH's exlpoit.
About CFW even if it comes true... we'll see when the 1st ban wave hit's the PSN what GH will have to say.
btw... logic says that sony is making separate FW's for each SKU and probably for every region... will GH make CFW's for every SKU also?
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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19. April 2010 @ 23:30 |
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Originally posted by SDF_GR:
btw... logic says that sony is making separate FW's for each SKU and probably for every region... will GH make CFW's for every SKU also?
Is this logic? Wouldn't it make more sense to make a single firmware for all systems, and to have it customizable upon install (so that the cardreader works if you have one, and it does not show up if you don't)
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Member
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5. May 2010 @ 12:35 |
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I know it's been a couple of weeks since anyone has posted any new info. His blog is stagnant and I haven't heard anything new elsewhere. I'm assuming that he was unable to complete the CFW.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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6. May 2010 @ 01:36 |
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Now you are getting it...GeoHot came to our house, took a crap on the floor, wiped with our finest clothing, and then left.
I would not say the possibility of a CFW is out completely...but I don't think it is coming from GeoHot.
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AfterDawn Addict
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7. May 2010 @ 13:10 |
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GeoHot left us hanging on to a false positive...I even has hopes of something grand.
All I can say is "oh well" Maybe he should share his knowledge with someone to carry on.
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SDF_GR
Member
1 product review
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8. May 2010 @ 05:48 |
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Originally posted by KillerBug:
Wouldn't it make more sense to make a single firmware for all systems, and to have it customizable upon install (so that the cardreader works if you have one, and it does not show up if you don't)
It is not just the CReaders, is it? There is the HW BWC ps3's, the partHW partSW BWC ps3's the none BWC, the slims...... even sony have troubles with FW's and programing the PS3's, just look the Ingame XMB? it's still goes as slow as hell, you think that sony wants igXMB to be so damn slow? well i dont.
btw... is anyone 100% sure that the mac adress is the only way that sony tracks down the PS3's? i am not.
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