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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition
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11. October 2011 @ 17:26 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Perhaps they're biding their time, to see what intel is going to do :S

Wow, I forgot how hot the earlier Athlons ran. I replaced 1.4 thunderbird with a Palomino 1.67ghz a while back. Just turned it on, to see how the ol girl is doing. 51C at idle! Apparently it can handle fairly high load temps though. I think I'm more nervous about the northbridge though. Very hot to the touch. probably pushing 120 - 130 F. I'm planning on disassembling all the parts and listing them on ebay. I ran a puppy live cd, it seems to be running good. Sure wish Asus made die hard boards like that still...



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11. October 2011 @ 17:28 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
My old XP 3000+ idles in the 60s, and that's with a custom cooler. Those chips were nuts.



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11. October 2011 @ 17:32 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Geese! Apparently LOL! Well, the duct isn't currently routed to pull heat away from the cpu. So I'd probably help it a little, by placing the plastic duct back on there ;) Pretty old though. Probably not too many people interested in old technology :S I do have 2Gb worth of PC2100. That'd probably be scooped up.



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11. October 2011 @ 17:43 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I think the cooler I bought for it was just crap really, but still, that's mega hot. Talking of mega hot, really need to re-seat my i5's cooler. Had to turn the overclock off to stop it from overheating!



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
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11. October 2011 @ 17:47 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Yah, I probably need to re-seat mine as well. It really should be running better than it is. I'm almost certain I applied too much compound. From now on, I'm gonna seriously inspect the heatsink for imperfections. E.g. warps. If there are, lapping may be a good idea. But since my upgrade isn't too far away, I'm not too concerned.



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11. October 2011 @ 18:44 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by sammorris:
Originally posted by theonejrs:
Originally posted by shaffaaf:
Russ what wrong with the games?

crisis is still regarded as one of the most intense games to run, very CPU intensive,
Shaff,

Two games total, don't tell you a lot about how well a computer plays games. There were 8 games in the THW review I posted.

Russ
Techreport posted a lot more than two games. Don't tell me, they're all Intel-biased?

Sam,

I repeat, the techreport Shaff linked had two games tested. Crysis and X3:Terran Conflict! That was the extent of their games part of the review!

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2...ridge-review/10

Russ

GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor


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11. October 2011 @ 18:58 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Bit-tech is not techreport.



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12. October 2011 @ 03:13 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Definitely the Intels overclock better than the AMDs right now. and they should be stock testing although sometimes they do OC tests, but they'll still do factory tests too.

If AMD is saying 10% increase that isn't very much and is still short of the Sandy, the way AMD was talking a while back I thought for sure they were going to have a contender if not exceed Intels products.

Mr-Movies,

If you are an E-Blast subscriber at Newegg, you already know that they have the Phenom II 965BE on sale for $114.99 w/promo code, for 48 hours.




That's a lot of bang for the buck given that low a price. No fire sale either, as the Debebs have already paid for themselves. Most are going to buy the llano over the Sandy Bridge, for less money because of the superior HD 6550D Graphics. The cheapest Sandy Bridge Quad core, the 2.8GHz i5-2300 costs $179, the top 2.9GHz Llano A8-3850 Quad Core costs $139. People who don't overclock, are going to go by the graphics and the $40 lower price tag!. I don't even begin to understand the thinking of someone buying one, and then installing a dedicated video card or cards, although a number of people seem to do it. I have this thing about not wasting money on things I can't use.

Oh, one more thing. If someone does have a Sandy Bridge and has to RMA it back to Intel, be advised that when they ask you for the model and make of your memory, have a brand and model number handy that is not over 1333MHz. If you tell them it's 1600 memory, it will void your warranty immediately, and you don't get an RMA, or a second chance as the warranty is void for that serial number for good, effective now! Intel threatened to void my warranty because I didn't use the stock cooler, when I sent my E6750 back for replacement. That was the deciding factor in my making the switch from Intel to AMD. I haven't regretted it yet, especially with the performance boost I got after switching to the GigaByte 990XA-UD3 AM3+ motherboard. It's more than fast enough for me!

Best Regards,
Russ

GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor


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12. October 2011 @ 04:33 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by sammorris:
Bit-tech is not techreport.

Sam,

No it's not. We were discussing Bit-Tech, in particular the two games they reviewed in the link I posted. I guess you decided to throw a different outfit, techreport into the mix. Why I have no idea, and I didn't snap to it. What does techreport have to do with bit-tech only using Crysis and X3:Terran Conflict as their only game tests. That was my question, and you popped up with techreport??

Russ

GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor


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12. October 2011 @ 06:00 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by theonejrs:
Originally posted by sammorris:
Bit-tech is not techreport.

Sam,

No it's not. We were discussing Bit-Tech, in particular the two games they reviewed in the link I posted. I guess you decided to throw a different outfit, techreport into the mix. Why I have no idea, and I didn't snap to it. What does techreport have to do with bit-tech only using Crysis and X3:Terran Conflict as their only game tests. That was my question, and you popped up with techreport??

Russ
I'm not even going to respond to that. It's your mistake, not mine, and I'm not going to be held to ransom for it.


In other news, detailed benchmarks of the Bulldozer CPUs are out, such as this one:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/21813/7

I'm not impressed.
Early days perhaps, but they could only get it as far as 4.4Ghz tops, and at the already high 3.6Ghz stock speed, it underperforms the i7s at basically everything.



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12. October 2011 @ 07:45 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
FX-8150 %Performance relative to X4 980, X6 1100T, i5 2500K, i7 2600K, i7 980X

Games tests
1a. Bad Company 2 average frame rate: 100/99/86/86/86 (probably GPU limited)
1b. Bad Company 2 minimum frame rate: 95/98/79/81/82
2a. Civilization 5 Late game view (rendered): 107/107/74/73/73
2b. Civilization 5 Late game view (unrendered): 111/103/74/70/71
2c. Civilization 5 Unit benchmark (rendered): 92/85/69/58/61
2d. Civilization 5 Unit benchmark (unrendered): 126/108/96/80/66
3a. F1 2010 average frame rate: 121/111/95/94/97 (GPU limited)
3b. F1 2010 minimum frame rate: 123/120/95/92/92 (GPU limited)
4a. Metro 2033 average frame rate: 116/105/98/97/98 (GPU limited)
4b. Metro 2033 minimum frame rate: 146/79/119/127/190
5. Valve Source Engine particle sim: 118/94/76/61/46

Productivity tests
1. Sunspider Javascript bench: 90/97/84/84/79
2a. 7-zip file compression: 157/116/138/98/68
2b. 7-zip file extraction: 145/109/149/105/70
3a. Truecrypt AES: 479/363/108/82/58
3b. Truecrypt Overall: 252/188/126/95/67
Performance here is indicative of AES support, which is featured on Bulldozer, as well as Sandy Bridge and Gulftown, but not early i5s and i7s, nor Phenom IIs.

Image Processing tests
1. The Panorama Factory Photo Stitch: 134/111/84/82/85
2a. picCOLOR Real tests: 115/108/94/87/81
2b. PicCOLOR Synthetic tests: 123/125/85/84/86

Video encoding tests
1a. x264 HD Pass 1: 98/100/78/83/84
1b. x264 HD Pass 2: 150/115/126/100/77
2. Windows Live Movie Maker Encoding: 101/104/91/89/87

3D Modelling/Rendering
1a. Cinebench Single thread: 92/93/69/67/83
1b. Cinebench Multi thread: 137/103/110/87/68
2a. POV-Ray Rendering High res: 134/100/104/86/70
2b. POV-Ray Rendering Low res: 111/100/92/81/85
3. Valve VRAD map build: 126/98/82/66/60

Scientific Computing
1. MyriMatch proteomics: 138/100/112/78/55
2. STATS Euler3D Fluid Dynamics: 137/110/85/77/60


System Power consumption:
AMD E-series ITX: 43W idle, 52W load
Intel Atom: 48W idle, 52W load
AMD Llano A8 series: 58/59W idle, 114/145W load
Intel Sandy Bridge (i3-2100/i5-2400/i5-2500K/i7-2600K): 64W idle, 107/129/132/144W load
Intel Lynnfield (G6950/i3-560/i5-655K/i5-760/i7-875K): 65/65/66/80/79W idle, 94/107/109/142/170W load
AMD Bulldozer: 76W idle, 209W load
AMD Phenom II (X4/840/X4 980/X6 1100T): 76/83/82W idle, 154/189/187W load
Intel Gulfdown (i7 950/970/980X/990X): 114/112/108/91W idle, 198/209/213/222W load

Calculation / Power efficiency:
1st. i7 2600K: 8.5KJ/task
J2nd. i5 2500K, i7 980X, 990X: 9.9KJ/task
8th: X6 1100T/990FX: 13.1KJ/task
11th: FX-8150: 14.3KJ/task
13th: i5 760: 14.9KJ/task
18th: A8-3800: 15.9KJ/task
19th: Core 2 Q9400: 16.5KJ/task
21st: X4 975: 17.7KJ/task


Points ranking system - 1st: 6, 2nd: 5, 3rd: 4, 4th: 3, 5th: 2 6th: 1
Double weighting for single tests

Games:
i7 980X: 5+4+2.75+2.5+2.5+3/+5+5.5/+4.5+1/+12 = 47.75 - B
i7 2600K: 5+5+2.75+3+3+2/+6+5.5/+6+3/+10 = 51.25 - A
i5 2500K: 5+6+2+2+2+2.5/+5+4/+4.5+4/+8 = 45 - C
X6 1100T: 3+2+0.75+1+1.5+1/+2+2/+2+6/+6 = 27.25 - D
X4 980: 1.5+3+0.75+0.5+1+0.5/+1+1/+1+2+2 = 14.25 - F
FX-8150: 1.5+1+1.5+1.5+0.5+1.5/+3+3/+3+5/+4 = 25.5 - E

Productivity:
i7 980X: 12+6+6+6+6 = 36 A
i7 2600K: 9+5+4+5+5 = 28 B
FX-8150: 2+4+5+4+4 = 19 C
i5 2500K: 9+2+1+3+3 = 18 D
X6 1100T: 4+3+3+2+2 = 14 E
X4 980: 6+1+2+1+1 = 11 F

Image Processing Tests:
i7 980X: 8+6+4 = 18 C
i7 2600K: 12+5+6 = 23 A
i5 2500K: 10+4+5 = 19 B
FX-8150: 6+3+3 = 12 D
X6 1100T: 4+2+1 = 7 E
X4 980: 2+1+2 = 5 F

Video encoding:
i7 980X: 4+6+12 = 22 A
i7 2600K: 5+4.5+10 = 19.5 B
i5 2500K: 6+2+8 = 16 C
FX-8150: 1.5+4.5+6 = 12 D
X6 1100T: 1.5+3+2 = 6.5 F
X4 980: 3+1+4 = 8 E

3D Modelling/Rendering:
i7 980X: 4+6+6+5+12 = 33 A
i7 2600K: 6+5+5+6+10 = 32 B
i5 2500K: 5+2+2+4+8 = 21 C
FX-8150: 1+4+3.5+2.5+4 = 15 E
X6 1100T: 3+3+3.5+2.5+6 = 18 D
X4 980: 2+1+1+1+2 = 7 F

Scientific Computing:
i7 980X: 12+12 = 24 A
i7 2600K: 10+10 = 20 B
i5 2500K: 4+8 = 12 D
FX-8150: 7+6 = 13 C
X6 1100T: 7+4 = 11 E
X4 980: 2+2 = 4 F


i7 980X: BACAAA - Final score: 33
i7 2600K: ABABBB - Final Score: 32
i5 2500K: CDBCCD - Final score: 23
FX-8150: ECDDEC - Final score: 18
X6 1100T: DEEFDE - Final score: 13
X4 980: FFFEFF - Final score: 7

Overall comparison:
FX-8150 sits equidistant between the Phenom II X6 and the Core i5 2500K for performance - giving it a roughly estimated retail value of $205, between the X6 1100T's $190 and the i5 2500K's $220.
As it stands at $240, it's not too far off what it should be, but is probably a little overpriced.
If you already own an X6 1100T or similar, there is no reason to upgrade to this new CPU, especially not for gaming purposes, where it underperforms the Phenom 2s on several occasions due to being slower per-core.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
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12. October 2011 @ 10:31 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
to quote someone else, "one small step for AMD, one big LOL for intel"

how can their 6 core last gen CPU be equivelent, sometimes better sometimes not, than their NEW, 7 years in the making, OCTO core CPU?

honestly, that a bunch of crap.

i was hoping to swap to AMD, just because i have been on intel for so long, but fudge that. intel it is. not to mention its overpriced aswell, which is odd from AMD.

why didnt they just die shrink the X6s?



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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12. October 2011 @ 10:33 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
It would have been better to die-shrink the X6, I agree.

Quote:
to quote someone else, "one small step for AMD, one big LOL for intel"
Hilarious, loving this. Well, it shouldn't be, but it is. I take no solace in the fact that AMD are the butt of a joke here. Really this failure does no good to anyone.



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12. October 2011 @ 12:14 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I see no reason to switch to intel... :S

They're still high priced.



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12. October 2011 @ 12:17 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Well, the release of Bulldozer doesn't change anything about Intel's performance vs. price, nor will it need to. It performs so badly that Intel have no reason to change their current prices really. You want more performance, you pay a premium for it. This is what lack of competition does. In a games environment, there's little reason to upgrade from a high-end Phenom II because they're already fast enough. With more enterprise-grade work you can go for the i7 for the best performance, but for most, the X6 is the easiest route. It's not as fast, but it's cheaper, and a lot less of a logistical hassle for AMD users. The failure of Bulldozer now just means AMD users are stuck in a rut really, without a competitive CPU to upgrade to in the future, should Intel develop any new tech.



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12. October 2011 @ 12:22 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I don't like intel's way of doing things. I'm sure if they had new tech, a new cpu would be 1500 - 2000USD. That's completely ridiculous. Unless your a big spending business.
I can't see spending 750$ more on just the cpu, for what I Consider to be minimal gains :P

Besides it looks like 8150 does well enough for X264 encoding. I will of course be waiting til February. They will likely be introducing a new chip by then.



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12. October 2011 @ 12:31 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
You make it sound like every CPU Intel offers is that kind of money...
AMD have said themselves that the new chip is going to be 10% or so faster, which will place it just behind the i7 970 for x264 encoding, which is pretty much the strongest asset the FX-8150 has.



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12. October 2011 @ 12:44 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I'm sorry. WHen I think intel, I think big money :S X264 encoding is my desire :) And I'm sure it smokes my 965. I'll likely only allow it 7 cores too(I currently allow 3). It's an upgrade for me. I say again though, I'd like to see what happens over the next 4 months. I won't be jumping into it.



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12. October 2011 @ 12:49 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
X4 975 with 4 cores: 23.4fps
X4 975 with 3 cores (est): 17.6fps

X6 1100T with 6 cores: 31.3fps
X6 1100T with 5 cores (est): 26.1fps

FX-8150 with 8 cores: 35.9fps
FX-8150 with 7 cores (est): 31.4fps

i7 2600K with 4 cores: 36.0fps
i7 2600K with 3 cores (est): 27.0fps

i7 970 with 6 cores: 43.3fps
i7 970 with 5 cores (est): 36.1fps



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
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12. October 2011 @ 12:51 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Yup, looks good to me :D You probably think I'm silly LOL! I'll likely be overclocking it to its limits. Remember, I plan to go excellent water cooling on my next build. My figures will probably look better than that :D



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12. October 2011 @ 12:52 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
but remember the intels clock at a higher percentage.



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12. October 2011 @ 12:54 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I'm not suggesting smoking the intels overclocks. Just AMD's. Time will tell. I probably won't be touching 8150. It'll probably be 8170, or a revised chip.

I suppose 8170 will simply be a 8150 with a higher clock...



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12. October 2011 @ 12:54 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
You'll need a bit more than a standard water cooling setup:




That's a 450W TDP chip right there!



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12. October 2011 @ 12:57 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
My water cooling will likely cost a great deal more than the CPU :S

But I'll be set for future CPU's.



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12. October 2011 @ 13:01 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by theonejrs:
That's a lot of bang for the buck given that low a price. No fire sale either, as the Debebs have already paid for themselves. Most are going to buy the llano over the Sandy Bridge, for less money because of the superior HD 6550D Graphics. The cheapest Sandy Bridge Quad core, the 2.8GHz i5-2300 costs $179, the top 2.9GHz Llano A8-3850 Quad Core costs $139. People who don't overclock, are going to go by the graphics and the $40 lower price tag!. I don't even begin to understand the thinking of someone buying one, and then installing a dedicated video card or cards, although a number of people seem to do it. I have this thing about not wasting money on things I can't use.

I do have E-Blast so like you I get those specials. It will probably be next month when I do some posturing with new gear and will consider that.

I do normally get embedded GPU's even if I'm going to use it for gaming with a add-on card(s) for redundancy as it doesn't really cost much more for that type of board and if I have problems with my video card I can still use the computer. It's really a smart move for the very little cost difference.

Originally posted by theonejrs:
Oh, one more thing. If someone does have a Sandy Bridge and has to RMA it back to Intel, be advised that when they ask you for the model and make of your memory, have a brand and model number handy that is not over 1333MHz. If you tell them it's 1600 memory, it will void your warranty immediately, and you don't get an RMA, or a second chance as the warranty is void for that serial number for good, effective now! Intel threatened to void my warranty because I didn't use the stock cooler, when I sent my E6750 back for replacement. That was the deciding factor in my making the switch from Intel to AMD. I haven't regretted it yet, especially with the performance boost I got after switching to the GigaByte 990XA-UD3 AM3+ motherboard. It's more than fast enough for me!
That really doesn't surprise me at all and is one of the reasons I stay away from Intel solutions. As I've stated before the Intel team is EXTREMELY arrogant just like IBM was years ago and unlike IBM I'm very surprised they haven't been knocked off their pedestal yet. However there time will come.

Originally posted by omegaman7:
I don't like intel's way of doing things. I'm sure if they had new tech, a new cpu would be 1500 - 2000USD. That's completely ridiculous. Unless your a big spending business.
I can't see spending 750$ more on just the cpu, for what I Consider to be minimal gains :P

Besides it looks like 8150 does well enough for X264 encoding. I will of course be waiting til February. They will likely be introducing a new chip by then.
That is very true and is why Shaff is off with his statement. Sure AMD has a high price when they first come out but it is always much lower than Intel's EVEN when AMD was out performing Intel. Also when AMD says 10% increase they are normally around that unlike Intel who would bolster 30% for a possible 10% real increase. Intel is a really shatty company and if they don't stay ahead of the game they could go down.

Still with that said I could see going to the 990 if I had the ching to make the jump.

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. October 2011 @ 13:13

 
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